Is the new Public Transportation Fare System fair? Maybe not.
July 30th, 2010 | 
Author: Just 1 week into the new system, I have discovered some flaws or discrepancies in the distance fare system. Called up LTA and spoke to an officer about this, were told that they will look into this but till date, have not received any reply.
First off, the distance indicated on the info board of bus stop and the Fare Calculator at the LTA site have discrepancy, below is the info 
extracted from the Fare Calculator and shown on the info board of the bus stop at Cosmic Insurance Building opposite Bras Basah Complex.
Trip 1 Bus Svc 80 Stop No. 01029 Stop No. 05429 2.4km
Cosmic Insurance Bldg Bef Wallich St
Trip 2 Bus Svc 145 Stop No. 01029 Stop No. 05429 2.6km
Cosmic Insurance Bldg Bef Wallich St
Note, the boarding bus stop is the same and the alighting bus stop is also the same and they both ply along the same stretch of road. There is clear a discrepancy of 200m but how did this discrepancy came about? I believe this is not a standalone case.
Another discrepancy I have discovered is the distance indicated is all rounded up to the nearest 100m, in this case, it could meant that the distance is incorrectly calculated and commuter have to pay more for the distance that they did not travel at all.
This is like when you buy 1kg of rice at S$3.00, you paid S$3.00 but getting less than 1kg of rice, it is like cheating the buyer, in this case the commuters.
This clearly indicated that not enough testing and checking have been done before rolling out a new system. How could Public Transport Committee make such a mistake?
Jor L
Posted in Letters
32 Responses to “Is the new Public Transportation Fare System fair? Maybe not.”
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Hmm….
So a bus that filter left and right lane (except keeping to its bus lane) and stops at every stop will have commuters pay higher amount than a bus that keeps to its bus lanes and not stopping at station at all. So during NDP, there’s road diversion resulting in buses doing longer detours, commuters would have to pay more? And on MRT construction sites, buses do detours, commuters pay more? So much for distance based…. might as well add in time (every 1 minute wait +20 cents) then buses in singapore will become taxis…
they are dafts as daft comes.(PTC)
cheating has always been the game and taking away your money is the fame.
putting it all into their pockets is heaven’s gift…
till hell comes, who to blame….
this new distance based fare system is a farce. the to and fro trips between the same 2 locations charge different fares. bring back the old system, just increase the transfer rebate.
Make no mistake, they are overcharging on purpose. Could the fare be less??? No never.. they are overcharging innocent and ignorant Singaporeans.
They marketing language always make it as if they are trying to help us save but actually they charge more and we end up paying more.
I have yet to discover any instance where we are undercharge? Did you?
Oh! This is cheating our money! How can govt do that to us? Please expose more of such cases.
CONTRARY TO WHAT WE HAVE BEEN TOLD, IT IS NOT DISTANCE FARE BY A LONG LONG SHOT OF TRUTH. Any commuter from Tanjong Pagar to Seng Kang can travel by Outram Park interchange or via Raffles Interchange and Dohby Ghaut interchange and SMRT would be in COMPLETE TECHNOLOGICAL BLIND which route the commuter actually travelled. There is significant difference of distances travelled when you considered the two options available, how did SMRT measure the unquantifiable distance and charge the fare based on IMPOSSIBLE-TO-KNOW OF ACTUAL DISTANCE taken by the commuter?
IT IS A HOAX OF DISTANCE measure and fare charged. SMRT should come out and tell commuters that it is just raising fare and leave it at that. No need to fudge around the abysmal edge of story-telling lies and play with commuter’s emotions. It is treating consumers like a stupid drinking mug.
I don’t know whose brilliant or stupid idea is this. If your fare card has less balance than $3, you are deleted electronically from entering the train station. So with 5 million living on this island and maybe 4 million travellers with at least one fare card, it is either SMRT or Transit Link owned by LTA which is forcibly keeping in storage and their financial deposit something like $12 million in cash balance i.e. 4 million cards multiply by $3. At 2% interest alone, it earns them $240,000 and whoever kept our money is behaving like a bank with a banking licence from Monetary Authority of Singapore keeping our money as their deposits against our will. It is like daylight robbery and ransom. IT IS NOT FAIR, MAYBE ILLEGAL for any entity to solicit our money and keep it for their own financial advantage AS IF THEY GOT A BANKING LICENCE which I doubt the offending party, whoever it be, really has.
IT IS UNREASONABLE EXPLOITATION OF THE TRAPPED CONSUMERS. Maybe the relevant Minister could explain why this is happening and consumers are NOT informed when the new fare card (with this hidden poison was not disclosed to customers) was introduced. We should NOT be treated like a stupid drinking mug.
hey , in singapore , there is no such thing as fair . you want fair ? vote wisely or eat it !
below is the reply from LTA yesterday at REACH forum.
Dear ‘SG Ghost(I am a Guest)’,
Thank you for your posting. We are aware of the distance discrepancy for these two bus stops and have since resolved the problem. As this is an initial implementation phase of a new fare system, we are carefully looking out for such teething issues and doing immediate rectification whenever necessary.
Distance Fares is a complete overhaul of the fare charging framework, which totally removes transfer penalties. This results in a re-allocation of costs and generally, commuters who make transfers will pay less than before while those taking certain direct trips would have to pay more. As the fare formula had allowed for up to 2.5% fare reduction in the 2010 fare adjustment exercise, the Public Transport Council (PTC) decided to implement the full 2.5% fare reduction this year, which would be borne by the public transport operators, to reduce the impact on commuters when implementing Distance Fares.
In assessing the impact of the new fares, the PTC looked at commuters’ public transport expenditure based on weekly travel patterns and not individual journeys. This is because most commuters make a mixture of direct and transfer journeys over the week. Hence, while some commuters could pay more for certain journeys, their fares for other journeys during the course of the week could be less. In its deliberation, what the PTC has done is to ensure that the majority (2 in 3 commuters) will benefit from a reduction in their weekly public transport expenditure. The level of savings depends on the individual commuter’s travel patterns. Nevertheless, we have forwarded your feedback to PTC for their reference.
Thank you.
Yours sincerely
LTA
http://app.reach.gov.sg/reach/YourSay/REACHsDiscussionCorner/tabid/116/ptid/404/page/15/totrecs/143/threadid/3373/forumtype/posts/Default.aspx
but to be fair to the both PTC and PTO, indeed that there are some saving but not all, short and single trip long distance will have to pay more while medium to long distance with multiple transfer choosing a shorter distance will pay less. Still i think PTC and PTO should do more for the elderly.
hey guys,what is fair here,tell me?
look,even driving home at 7 pm after a hard day’s work,we still have to pay money and they want us to make babies?
after so many years and so many different ‘BRAINS’ at the helm of the TRANSPORT MINISTRY,no MINISTER has yet come out with an amicable and reasonable solution to this traffic congestion at ECP and CTE?
Why penalise singaporeans when they are not responsible for the congestion when you put in more than a million foreigners into our small island?
BESIDES,there more are satellite towns springing but they are now still served by the SAME ONE CTE for instance.
When CTE WAS CONSTRUCTED,it was serving LESSER residents,now,it is the same CTE that has to cater for many more people.
Even SHANGHAI,which began developing much later than when CTE was first built,HAS MULTI-LAYERED HIGHWAYS to cater to their influx of provincial migrants and some foreigners.
Over,all these years,all the ministers could do was to put up more erp gantries and DPM TEO,you call this CREATIVE THINKING AND FORWARD LOOKING?
They are just finding more reasons to increase the public transport prices. How it mathematically possible that one would generally pay a lower transport fee when the per trip prices have increased. Its not worth to take a bus for a short distance neither is it worthwhile to take a bus for longer distances. To begin with its not even economical affordable. We should all be driving buses only then we would be issued with a concession.
Sometimes I wonder why no one bothered to post this matter to LTA directly instead? I personally did and some problems has since been resolved.
The online calculator is indeed with lots of errors especially with bus services that has special operation i.e. Sv 36 at Changi Airport.
I do not understand where the fare hike appears less 2 groups of commuters: Those that make 1 bus transfer where both trips are below 3.2km as well as long distance direct bus service travellers. Both are simply because now the buses adapt the MRT fare/ distance table.
I see many simply say fare hike when one does not even understand how it works and even still asking where’s the transfer rebate.
Now it’s fare based on eventual distance, say I take bus A for 2.1km, bus B for 1.3km, I would now be paying fares based on 3.4km which would be $0.81. In the past it would have been $0.69 + $0.19 = $0.88.
but remember? if it shutter bus, it will be very much different, old fare system, no matter how far you travel, it still S$0.88 when you transfer from shutter bus to shutter bus, but now, you will be paying something like from S$0.71 to the maximum fare according to the distance you travel and i think not many are aware about this and this distance fare system should not be applied.
PTC and PTO also did not put in much effort to educate the not so well educated, elderly and housewife, this group of people are very confuse over this new fare system, if much awareness are created to make them understand, most would know how to tackle with the situation. and this new fare system have inconvenient commuters especial elderly and those mobility impaired.
furthermore, the fare calculator, as many have pointed out, it not user friendly to let user chose from point A to point B and generator alternate routes and comparison on the price. it would definitely help if such feature is incorporated.
i am definitely against the new fare system but as mentioned in my above post, there are saving but i think PTO and PTC are able to do better than this and especially for elderly and needy.
Watch it when the buses start to use smaller tires.
Over the same distance, the smaller wheels will have to turn more revolution, which will clock as longer distance travelled too !!!
Are the measured distance locked in permanently to a central computer tabulated pricing – from which charges are made; or will the distance be dependent on the route that each bus take and similar to the taxi with a meter that is dependent on the distance measured by its wheels ?
from the distance calculator and the bus stop info board, it should be measured between bus stop to bus stop but believe to be rounded up to the nearest 100m, whether or not actual measurement have been taken place is i think unknown to the public.
FAIR???? NOTHING IS FAIR HERE UNDER LKY AND HIS TEAM.
“Distance Fares is a complete overhaul of the fare charging framework, which totally removes transfer penalties.” – LTA
a. If the fare is truly distance-based, then distance should be “as the crow flies” basis i.e. we take the distance between points A and B.
b. The buses and the trains meanders and winds into the estates to cover less populated areas e.g. Bus no. 139 in the Whampoa estate or SBS Bus no. 131 in the Cambridge area but commuters are penalised.
c. The price between the first kilometer and the last should be exactly the same. This is not the case as the first few kilometers is priced higher (like flag-fall in taxi?).
d. Distance fare should not be based on transfers but distance.
e. Commuters on short or long journeys should therefore pay exactly for the distance travelled which is now not the case.
“As the fare formula had allowed for up to 2.5% fare reduction in the 2010 fare adjustment exercise, the Public Transport Council (PTC) decided to implement the full 2.5% fare reduction this year, which would be borne by the public transport operators, to reduce the impact on commuters when implementing Distance Fares. – LTA
The distance fare that was implemented in reality is AN INCREASE in fares. The PTC and LTA do not want a outcry by saying that the fares are being increased and so they couch it by saying that they are implementing the “Distant Fare” which is a fairer way.
Call a spade a spade. The fare has increased. This is despite increased ridership. The 2 MRT and bus operators should be transparent and open their books to the PTC and Singaporeans to justify their fare increases.
The 2 transport operators need not be reminded that it is the public’s money that went into the construction of the MRT systems, roads and buses. Singaporeans should ask themselves if the MRT should continue to be making profits to their detriment.
“In assessing the impact of the new fares, the PTC looked at commuters’ public transport expenditure based on weekly travel patterns and not individual journeys.” – LTA
We have a Public Transport Council. The MRT operators in fact should propose any price increase and then it is for the PTC to moderate such price increase. Instead, LTA appears to be calling the shots.
Is PTC a rubber stamp? There are 16 members in the PTC all professional and eminently qualified in their respective fields of expertise. Only one (Dr. Vincent Chua) states he is “an avid user of public transport”. What about the rest of the council members?
Do they know the plight of commuters – the packed buses and MRT trains, the smelly bodies of the workers (mainly foreign) they have to put up with, foreigners working as bus drivers who cannot communicate and do not know the roads and directions, etc.
“In its deliberation, what the PTC has done is to ensure that the majority (2 in 3 commuters) will benefit from a reduction in their weekly public transport expenditure.” – LTA
Show us the proof that the majority two thirds of commuters will benefit. We have not heard of anyone praising the new Distance Fare.
It appears that it is LTA that is driving the Distance Fare and the
consequent fare increase and they are justifying it instead of the PTC.
“but to be fair to the both PTC and PTO, indeed that there are some saving but not all, short and single trip long distance will have to pay more while medium to long distance with multiple transfer choosing a shorter distance will pay less.”…. Writer
This fact can only be confirmed by the two operators or LTA. They should show the percentages of short and long trips. But all this would be unnecessary if a pure Distance Fare system is implemented.
N.B. – This writer forgot that Senior Citizens suffer most in the fare increase under the Distance Fare scheme.
The rubber tyre of truth wears out FASTER on the road layered with a density of lies – that is how we are treated all along in this country for 45 years. Anyone little surprised?
CHEATING SENIOR CITIZENS CONCESSION FARE
Under the previous concessionary fare scheme for SENIOR CITIZENS, it used to cost a maximun of $0.73 cents to make a trip on MRT services, regardless of the distance travelled. It is even cheaper for travelling on buses. With the new distant-based fare, senior citizens are now charged a substantial increase in the new fare.
We took a train daily on the NE Line from Serangoon station to Clark Quay station, the new fare came to $1.05
Below is a comparison of new fare structure btwn ADULT vs SENIOR CITIZEN fare increase for review:
Old Snr Ctzn Fare New Snr Ctzn Fare Increaes % Increae
$0.73 $1.05 $0.32 43.84%
Old Adult Fare New Adult Fare Increase % Increase
#1.35 $1.40 $0.05 3.70%
The senior citizen fare increased are very substantial as compared to the adult fare. The new fare increase per trip is $0.32 and plus return trip is $0.64, while new adult fare increase both ways is only $0.10.
WHY IS SNR CTZN PENALISED with such hefty increase as compared to ADULT FARE incrase??? Is PTC and Transport Authorities trying to withdraw the SNR CTZN CONSESSION DISCOUNT.
Pl note the Government wants to encourage senior citizens to live a more active lifestyle. However, this substantial increase in public transport fares may deprive them from going out. Note most senior citizens do not have a regular income. This has also created more hardship for those needy senior citizens who have to earn a living doing part time work and have to take a direct MRT train to their work place and back home daily.
PTC should review and reassess the new fare structure and workout a reasonable fare for SNR CITIZENS and recommend to the transport authorities the necessary adjustments.
Day Light Robbery
This is most unfair to Senior Citizens. It is infact a withdrawal of senior citizens fare conseesion and a BIG FARE INCREASE.
They are driving you quicker to the grave so they can save some money which they have to spend looking after old people.
@Senior Citizen you could go to the REACH forum and make a complaint and direct your complaint to LTA, link below. Alternatively you could email them at feedback@lta.gov.sg. Hope they will reply you.
http://app.reach.gov.sg/reach/YourSay/REACHsDiscussionCorner/tabid/116/ptid/404/page/15/totrecs/143/threadid/3373/forumtype/posts/Default.aspx
Well done!
To me,somehow, I think we have always been on distance-based system. Counting number of stops is a form of distance-based although you are not measuring it in KM. It is just like in history, you measure by thumb-lengths and no of paces, now we use metric system. But still, you are counting lengths, just that you are more scietific about distance measurement.
Lets talk about flaws in the current system.
(1) Feeder Bus. With this, there are “once-solved” problems that crop up again with current (Cannot stop felling: I solve a problem before, now I let it crop up — Wonder if someone chooses not to see it?) In the old-system era, they took care of fairness issue, now they dump it. For feeders, what was the original purpose? Feelers go meandering round the estate so that everyone gets home. But many was inconveninced by the longer and (unwanted distances) travelled. But anyhow, it was fair once upon a time because though inconvenienced, you travelled those distance FOC. But commuters are being charged for unwanted distances now!
(2) True Distance. I do not know this one for sure, only yesterday I was trying to comprehend the diagrams at the bus-stop but failed. Let me assume scenarios then.So if now I travel from point A to point B, and the total distance travelled is 10KM. But in between if change 5 buses, the 5 changes are irrelevant, because it a true fair distance-based, I still travel 10KM anyway? So they are no rebates issue? (Note: I view changing buses as an inefficicny on the part of the transport service provider… but to be fair, it is a matter of no choice). I have a feeling that it is not that simple… If it is then in this respect I congratulate the service-provider. If it is not like that can someone explain?
Finally, I think there is a better system that is more fair than the current unfair fare system. We have GPS system right? I see those new buses that tell its exact location. So for a bus travelling from point A to point B, no matter how you meander, detour or wander in between, technology knows the straight-line distance travelled in between. So if I revisit the Feeder Bus meandering problem. My opinion: to be fair, we should get paid for extra distances travelled. (not charged by it — because if we are forceed to travel unwanted distances, we wasted our time!) Technology can now calculate the extra distances travelled i.e. Total distance (from the wheel) less traight line distance (from GPR). But we are not greedy. So best is, hey, charge according to straingt line distances. We forgive your inefficiencies, but do not chanrge me for ineffective deliveries.
Why don’t they think of charging based on this straight line distances? Fair and solved a lot of problems.
Treating Us as Fools
It is just a reckless excuse for another price hike.
They take away the old and better system and replace with this new stupid system just to actually take away the rebates of the old system. Tell me, how many people travel unnescessary long distant to work. Most of us have short trips, like going to markets, working near your estates, now we are incurring more trnasport fares. They take this excuse to increase MRT and Bus fares, isn’t another way to have a price hike and then forcing commuters to take unnecessary transfer just to get some rebates back.
If you are incurring more transport expense everyday, how can there be savings for longer term. Will the Minister in charge please quantify????
Safety:
There are actually fooling around with the safety of older commuters
and young children. By encourage everyone to make unnecessary transfers, someone may fall and get injured, especially senior citizens and younger primary school students.
@I want to speak:
well, if they were to take the straight line approach they will have to charge you a higher price, maybe that of taxi, cause there is no road that will go straight to your door step, even taxi can’t do it in a straight line.
a true distance base system should have the distance between bus stop measured down to the meter not round up to the nearest hundred meter.
let say every bus stop there is an average discrepancy of 20m, 5 bus stops would mean that there will be about 100m discrepancy, this 100m can incur an additional charge of as much as $0.10 depending on the distance of your journey.
example, if your actual traveled distance is 4.2km, you will be charge for $0.81, but the discrepancy will mean that you have traveled 4.3km, that means you will have to pay $0.91 instead.
$0.10 means a different of 12%. on top of that if you make transfer in between and both are feeder service, we use to pay only $0.88 for such service, now we have to pay additional $0.03, where is the saving of 2.5% claim by PTC? rather we are paying extra 3.5% more.
they have issue a press release that they have resolve some distance in some of the services, but they have not resolve or acknowledge this issue. always reactive than proactive.
my guess they will play ignorance about this and keep quiet. if not, the most they will claim that this discrepancy is negligible.
I have been reading your posts for the last couple of hours, and it all has been very informative and nicely written. I did want to allow you know that for some reason this post doesn’t appear to function in Internet Explorer. On a side note, I was wondering should you wanted to swap blogroll links? I hope to hear from you soon!
It’s great to see so many public transit advocates. We recently started an online forum dedicated Public and Urban Transportation. If you have a chance, please take a look at our site by visiting the following link: Transit-Forum
Thank you to obtain sharing this facts. But it will be truly great to obtain some more details!
Boarding and alighting from the SAME bus stops but of different bus no. charges different fares!
For reaching the same destination Sinagpore communters now has NO freedom to board any number that arrive first at the bus stop!
He had to die die wait for the bus that travels the lesser distance to arrive!!! Else you pay more lor! Suck! Cheater system!
If LTA dares, we urge you to set up a POLL on Yahoo Main page to reveal the % who saves on the new fare system and nots.
Else, wait and see the PAP polling results this year.
High quaility should not translates to high cost.
Visit China city to see cheap, quality and effective bus, train transport system.
Having Train guides on station platforms? China have them many years back while we only implement it this year.
China commuters also have vast bus numbers to choose from to reach their destinations, at equal pricing. Compare.
Low cost with good service; that’s what we call HIGH PRODUCTIVITY!