PAP Minister: “Not realistic” for GIC to avoid losses
March 10th, 2010 | 
Author: Written by Our Correspondent
After losing a few billion dollars of national reserves, PAP Minister Lim Hwee Hua got the cheek to say it is “not realistic” to avoid losses on every investment made by the Government of Singapore Investment Corporation or GIC.
Mrs Lim is responding to PAP MP Madam Ho Geok Choo’s request in Parliament for an update on GIC’s investments.
GIC has suffered disastrous losses in its UBS and Stuyvesant Town investment amounting to more than $10 billion dollars which made international headlines in recent weeks.
The state media has been quick to downplay the significance of the losses. What was not mentioned is the cavalier manner in which the investment decisions appeared to be made.
For example, it was revealed by Bloomberg that GIC took only 3 days to make the decision to invest in UBS:
“Marcel Ospel, then chairman of Zurich-based UBS, called GIC Chief Investment Officer Ng Kok Song, according to comments they made at the time. Talks began on Dec. 6, 2007, and by the evening of Dec. 9, GIC had committed to make its biggest single purchase at the time,” Bloomberg reported.
[Source: Bloomberg, 1 March 2010]
Mrs Lim claimed that both GIC and Temasek Holdings have so far delivered ‘creditable’ returns on their portfolios over the “long term” without substantiating her statements.
Nobody expects GIC never to make any losses, but Singaporeans do expect a minimal degree of accountability and transparency in the management of Singapore’s reserves which are accumulated over years of budget surpluses.
It is not realistic to lose billions of dollars and still allow the same people to sit on the boards of GIC and Temasek Holdings. Neither is it realistic to expect people with no prior experience in the finance industry to head the two funds. And it is definitely not realistic for Mrs Lim to pluck figures out of thin air without opening the account books for auditing.
Are we getting the best people to run GIC and Temasek Holdings?
Definitely not, according to U.S investment guru Jim Rogers who questioned the intelligence of GIC fund managers after they made the hasty decision to invest in UBS:
“I know these people, and they have never given me the impression that they’re smarter than anyone else. They have gigantic amounts of money, but they’ve made a bad judgment in these cases.”
Mrs Lim should stop hiding behind the lame excuse of “long term returns” to defend GIC’s dismal performance. If every single investment is assessed on the basis of “long term returns”, then every Tom, Dick and Harry can be a fund manager including our own Harry Lee who said in the aftermath of the “blood-letting”:
“When we invest, we are investing for 10, 15, 20 years. You may look as if you are making a big loss today, but you have not borrowed money to invest. You will ride the storm, the company recovers, your shares go up.”
[Source: CNA, 6 Feb 2009]
We are sitting on actual and paper losses of billions of dollars. Imagine if a fraction of it is re-invested in Singaporeans within a ten year period instead of waiting for the shares to go up.
It is not realistic for the PAP to play around with the hard-earned savings of Singaporeans like that. The reserves belong to every citizen of Singapore – our grandparents, parents and children and not to them.
In private investment firms, CEOs and entire boards of directors can be sacked based on one wrong investment decision, but in Singapore, the same old people remain secured in their positions, is this realistic?
If it is not realistic for GIC to avoid such gigantic losses in the future, then perhaps its Chairman should consider stepping down in a favor of a more qualified and experienced fund manager.
Related articles:
1. GIC incurs more than$7 billion loss in its UBS investment
2. Straits Times downplay GIC losses
3. GIC may have lost more than $13 billion dollars in its UBS investment on paper
4. GIC’s UBS investment: A chronicle of a disaster in the making
5. GIC’s $14 billion investment in UBS in jeopardy after it faces collapse
6. Dr Tony Tan: GIC in good shape
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These bunch of idiots wanted getting million dollars salary and yet not able to perform.
Are we continuing to pay them millions to lose Billions ??????????????????????????????????????????????
Very soon our country investment $$$ be lost completely.
Is cpf so short of $$? Why then did Khaw suggest tweaking Eldershield to make all of us start paying premiums at earlier age to get higher pay out? Then CPF board can acccumulate more $$ at our expense! Is it related to GIC losses?
“Not realistic” for GIC to avoid losses ?
Then what is REALISTIC ? TH loosing megatropic $58BILLIONS is realistic ? Combined TH & GIC loosing mega-colossal >$80BILLIONS is realistic ? Depriving each SINGAPOREAN >$30K (assuming TRUE NATIVE @ 2.6M) is realistic ??
You know what is REALLY REALISTIC? The entire bunch of 82 MILLION $$ALARIES MONKEYS in parliament be replaced.
Salaries also not very realistic.
They might have already have 1st round of discussion on what to say and what not to say , like the channel 5 & 8 drama series .
Did anyone notice the recent shows on channel 5 & 8 , the pictures are zoom so BIG by mediacorp that its so sick to see them . Looks like mediacorp is trimming down operation due to massive looses from the garman investment . even the PRs told me why they do this and why we dont have good local singers etc….
Who needs this Lim Hwee Hua to tell us what is realistic to avoid losses or not, WHERE IS THE CHAIRMAN? THE CHAIRMAN SHOULD BE EXPLAINING TO THE CITIZENS WHY THE MONEY IS LOST THE WAY IT IS LOST! So my message to Lim Hwee Hua is: DIAM!
I suggest TR write a full article also on Nathan’s lack of comments on the losses and whether he did a check on the way the money is invested. If this Nathan is not accounting to the citizen, we might as well outsource the position to the Queen?
So WE MUST be graceful to “unrealistic” and not accept that In “MERITOCRATIC Singapore”… It Automatically and Logically follow that… Hyper Salaried people paid out of this world Salaries… MUST ALSO BE ALLOWED TO FAIL “HYPER BIG” TOO!!!
Can’t argue with that can we??? Even though GIC BRAGGED that they ONLY TOOK “TEN DAYS TO DECIDE ON INVESTING IN UBS AS A GOOD INVESTMENT IN THE LONG TERM”!!! Only trouble IS… As with like their “PRODUCTIVITY” and FT Policies… “THEY” have NEVER EVER DEFINED… WHAT EACH of “THEIR” terms mean!!! “LONG TERM is how long haw??? 50 more years and for our grandchildren that those of us senior citizens will never get to know the truth will we??? Nor will old Lee nor his son Ah Loong!!! Will they???
What a load of multimillion dollars rubbish fit for the incinerators!!!
NOT realistic to have GIC and Temasek too..
How much does Ms Lim know whats in GIC?
It is equally not realistic for u madam to command such a high salary
Hwee Hua Sai,
don’t worry we will have the chance to kickout this rubbish stamp nathan at the presidential election next year.
hopefully the general election is held this year so that we will have the chance to kick some of those pigs out also.
The question is that it is UNREALISTIC for a government to invest in the first place,do not mix Politics and Business, it will only turn out into nasty mess where none are specialised in any of these.
There muz be 3 main strategies for investments. One when the market goes up, two when the market goes sideway & three when the market goes down…..
Therefore, even market is negative there’s still opportunities to make profit. I don’t see why they make losses instead of profits….Of course, everyone make mistakes but there’s no display of wisdom to minimize losses as well…
We want to hear from the chairman, shut up Mrs Lim. It is not realistic to avoid taking people to court for not paying their conservancy bills, their PUB bills etc, it’s really not! It’s not realistic to ask for a pay rise when our pay have actually been going down, it’s not realistic to say that we have to look for a job when they have been taken away by the foreigners, and its not realistic to say we should cut the pay of these GIC and Temasek people.
If I am not wrong CIC (China Investment Corp) just announced that they made $10b in 2009. CIC used to learn from GIC and now they are beating GIC in performance, net net positive in a difficult year. In fact Korea govt investment corp (not sure of their exact name), another student of GIC also made gains. So please don’t give us all these excuses when GIC make huge losses and tell Singaporean that it is acceptable. It is acceptable that housing price is going out of reach for singaporean, it is acceptable that Singaporean are displayed in job market by PR/FT and it is acceptable that singaporean are being discriminated by their own govt in their own land !!!
Oh Man…not another one…
but look, we never expect GIC/PAP to be perfect and maintain 100% for investment….however, when you trumpet your own extraordinary ability to get extraordinary pay including the recent rise of 8.8%, the people can’t help but expect extraordinary result…
and funny thing is…when GIC suffer a heavy lost for UBS, the oracle of Omaha, Buffett reaps a profit from another brand…so what does this tell us about GIC investment acue? in short, the lost could have been avoided or we have selected the wrong people for that job
Make my blood boil , to watch our elected MP talk nonsense
Our CPF at 55 got lock by 95k only at 62 then pay us by installment .
Temasek run by LHL
GIC run by ex DPM Tony Tan .
How not to loose money , good people with track
record Mr Good year , left Temasek .
I will also run , if i saw the record .
Hwee Hua Sai: “If this Nathan is not accounting to the citizen, we might as well outsource the position to the Queen?”
HEAR YE! HEAR YE! Her salary won’t be as exorbitant for sure. Plus, she looks a million times better and statelier.
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_336519.html
Temasek portfolio falls 31%
SINGAPORE’S state-owned investment companies have not been spared the fallout from the global market downturn.
The net portfolio value of Temasek Holdings fell 31 per cent between March 31 and Nov 30 last year, from $185 billion to $127 billion, Senior Minister of State for Finance Lim Hwee Hua revealed in Parliament on Tuesday.
The Government of Singapore Investment Corporation (GIC) also posted a decline in the value of its investments, but Mrs Lim did not reveal the numbers.
She said, however, that both Temasek and GIC have not done as badly as other market indices.
Temasek’s 31 per cent drop in portfolio value was less than the 44 per cent plunge in the MSCI Singapore Index and the 45 per cent decline in the MSCI Asia ex-Japan Index in the same period, Mrs Lim said.
As for GIC, its investments have ‘fallen by much less than the decline in global equity markets indices of 42 per cent for 2008′.
Mrs Lim also reiterated that the two companies are long-term investors, and should be evaluated as such.
‘This is not the first major decline in markets that they have seen, and will certainly not be their last,’ she said.
Despite the booms and busts over the years, Temasek has achieved annualised returns of about 13 per cent over the 20 years to late 2008.
GIC’s 20-year average return was 5.8 per cent as at March last year. While this figure will fall for March this year, it ‘will not be sharply down’, Mrs Lim said.
‘GIC and Temasek have the ability and resources to weather the ups and downs, over multiple economic and market cycles,’ she added.
‘They do not have to sell in panic in a market downturn and are in fact in an advantageous position to invest in good quality assets at prices that are attractive from a long-term perspective during a downturn.
‘The Government is confident that they will continue to deliver good long-term returns within the risk limits set.’
Change needed:
A more important job for the PAPaya :
http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/TechandScience/Story/STIStory_500193.html
Sure it will be endorsed by everybody.
I think we have to start changing the phrase “You pay peanuts, you get Monkeys” to “You pay Millions, you get Monkeys”.
Paying millions to someone to lose billions?
No head rolls after losing billions?
Might as well pay me $10k per month, i can do the same job as losing billions.
What is long term investment and what is short term ?
Temasek selling off those counters so soon (invested less than a year) and incur such a massive loss and yet dare to profess that they are in for the long term ?? Why is there no heads roll ?? Mrs. Ho should gracefully accept this responsibility and step down….
Now, GIC is also incurring such big losses…why is there no heads rolling off ?
In Japanese culture, the boss takes responsibility for such mistakes and commit suicide….here, our GIC Chairman is still flying around here and there, always commenting on other countries’ issues….
Lim Hwee Hua,
Nothing is inevitable. It has not escaped our attention that Lee Kuan Yew, as the chairman of GIC, is once again unavailable to explain the massive losses at GIC.
It is not just the quantum of the losses but the dubious circumstances of the losses, e.g. the 3 days for the decision to invest in UBS and the risky bet against rent control in NY (a nearly impossible task). What due diligence was carried out in these and other investments?
There are definitely poor/bad decisions and human errors, independent of the financial crisis. No one has stepped up to the plate to claim responsibility of setting the People back by a couple of decades or more. Without accountability and transparency, the People cannot be persuaded that the wrongdoings are merely due to incompetence.
The grave concern here is the lethal mix of incompetence with arrogance, resulting in the catastrophic losses. Dhana, when he was the chairman of DBS (he is presently chairman of Temasek Holdings) boasted that the decision to invest the Thai Danu Bank was made in just 10 days. The result was another multi-billion dollar loss. Temasek Holdings also has its share of ridiculous losses. It is an endemic problem.
What other problematic investments do the People not know about? We must have a thorough audit and an public investigation to put both GIC and Temasek Holdings back in order (internal processes, checks and balances, etc.).
This is not a request; it is a DEMAND of the People.
its not realistic for them to continue being MPs. and not realistic for them getting paid such salaries.
Reality check…. PAP still in power, LKY still head GIC, Ho Jinx still head TH, 8.8% salary increase still on, Nathan still getting 2million to make prata.
Realistically….. we dun want any of this to happen. But this will happen again, again and again. Only way out is vote this yaya papayas out and kick out roti prata man too.
When the regulator spends his whole day flip prata only, the papayas come out to roam
GIC, after losing by the $billions of Singaporeans’ hard earned money, we have someone who comes out and tell us “it’s NOT realistic” for GIC to avoid losses!! Is this another joke?? If it is, I don’t see the funny side of it !!
Going by what you said,any TOM, DICK or HARRY (sounds familiar?) can play the game,and we don’t need to pay those so-called elites by the $millions, to gamble away our money with their eyes closed!! Your head is still buried in the sands!!
Madam Lim, whatever you say, say whatever you like, never mind, because you and your master, and the entire team there,
YOU ARE NEVER WRONG.
#&%@$^&* ! KNN.
tell lim hwee hwa not to use such words as credible anymore. she herself as a member of parliament is not credible at all as well. so please step down.
why not leave the monies in cpf?
Not to worry folks,
LSS already mentioned they are deaf to any rational being constructive “feedback”, concerns, factual inputs and direct representations of fall outs from various forseeable scenarios.
And LSS by using some fable about deaf frogs on some mole hill or ant hill…it can only mean that they are just a bunch of froggies ribbiting here and hopping over there and everywhere.
I like frogs…real ones i mean. So i keep in mind where i put my foot down in the fields.
As for this other bunch of fable/”fake” frogs…Hope i can see them so as to avoid them too as i trample my way through the fields. But it is gonna be real hard even for me.
Double xianz.
why not leave the monies in CPF like LSS say?
Temasek: Lost its balls? Or wings clipped?
http://atans1.wordpress.com/2010/03/06/temasek-lost-its-balls-or-wings-clipped/
… the losses are a sign that the S’pore government “does” and tolerates incompetency, within the government and state agencies.
Worse the govmin cannot answer the critics of its welfare policies that it is being prudent. These subversives (from PAP perspective) can answer back,”Prudence, what prudence losing a few billions here and a few billions there?”
http://atans1.wordpress.com/2010/03/06/better-at-destabilising-than-investing/
@ Jason Lim,
You want to get pay to lost $ billions izit. you think you can do it?
I had been a full time trader for a long time. I can tell you it is not eazy to lose Billions.
Yes, losing millions and ten of millions is not difficult. but when the amount is in the hundreds of millions, you need special skills to lose them!!!
When you are losing into the billions, you are actually kena MARK by some big fishes. If you are not MARKED, not easy to lose so much one!
why not leave the monies in CPF like LSS say, instead of losing so much monies?
The loss is many times the loss in SuZhou.
@ Steve Wu on Wed, 10th Mar 2010 11:42 am
yes, one of your sentence is THE best description, not only for the SWF saga, it is THE best description of the pap team on many other policies.
The grave concern here is the lethal mix of incompetence with arrogance….
You don’t have enough people to change it. So shut up
“Not realistic” for GIC to avoid losses”
Hello!!!
Wake up your bloody idea, MPs!!!
We are paying millions for world class talents here.
If you are not up to your job, please get yourself out so we can get some REAL talents!
World class talents also cannot avoid losses.
FINE. FINE. FINE.
But world class talents can step down and be replaced.
Can we, the stakeholders, do that to those clowns at GIC or TH???
What does it mean by “unrealistic?” Is this what they can say to us the shareholders? That’s all? There’s no commitment to recovery or plans and yet they can tell us things like that! Are we all suckers for them?
50 years of unsweep carpen. So many dirty under it. It’s time to do some house keeping.
Lim Hwee Hua’s “mothering” talk is UNREALISTIC of the rigour required to make it a success in investment management.
You start with an investment portfolio of $10 billion, and in the market meltdown, its value eroded to $2 billion. Well that is ONLY 80% loss of value – very easy to rationalise that it is a long term holding, UNSPECIFIED OF WHAT “LONG-TERM” IS AND WHAT CHANGED CIRCUMSTANCES COULD EMERGE anytime TO DEFEAT the assumptions inherent in “long-term” holding.
But at a practical level, to recoup the losses elsewhere to make up for the 8 billion loss, you need to achieve a 400% INCREASE in successful investment decisions relying on the SMALLER CAPITAL NOW OF $2 billion. It is a bit like a baby can’t climb Bukit Timah trying to reach the top of Mount Everest.
What are the odds of DIFFICULT SUCCESS compared to
proven odds of even EASY FAILURE?
Wow that must be really EASY to rationalise after the fact of massive losses, ISN’T IT? Oh, I am sure it is very easy – mouth talking but try achieving with a smaller base of $2 billion, it is a DIFFERENT MATTER OF DIFFERENT SCALE. One more mistep and erosion of capital base, the funeral is waiting. Where is the CAPACITY OF RISK TAKING TO MAKE IT A SUCCESS? iF HEAVENLY-BLESSED LUCK PERMIT one big step forward, two more mistep wiped out the gain in that one big step forward.
THE SIMPLE TRUTH IS THE FIGHTBACK FROM LOSSES IS EXPONENTIAL OF DIFFICULTIES while sustaining investment losses is easier than sliding down the slide in kid’s playground.
Investment is NOT for everyone and even those with the right mental aptitude takes years of experience to develop and refine skills. If anyone is NOT cut out for this difficult role, he or she should step down gracefully, and let someone better takes over.
Rationalisation of losses is NOT the answer – the investment base either do NOT perform and/or UNDERACHIEVING of true potential or worse still erodes of its resources base.
We can’t afford A CONSISTENT PATTERN AND TRACK OF ACCUMULATED FAILURES WITH NO EVIDENCE TO SHOW OF LEARNING FOR ACHIEVEMENT SUCCESS DOWN THE TRACK.
I dont know what our million dollar talent is speaking. Its entirely rubbish.
HK government almost did not lost anything except forex lost in treasury bill.
IF WE ASSUME PAPA IS HONEST. BIG QUESTION MARK.
MM Lee Kuan Yew once said, the annual rate of return on the foreign reserves managed by GIC averaged 9.5 percent in U.S. dollar terms, and 8.2 percent in Singapore dollar terms in the 25 years ended March 2006. (average 9.5 percent a year since its inception in 1981)
If someone buy S&P500 Index during this period, he can 9.1% return annually. If we consider there is still dividence paid, then the total gain per annum per actually be greater than 9.5% for s&P500 Index. GIC just beat market by 0.4%. And this is on top of her connections, fund size, and number of scholars working for them.
The performance of GIC is sub par. Any business that get the CEO base on political appointment rather than meritocracy can never perform.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt
If we look at sovereign debt vs GDP, Singapore is 110% and Greece is 90%.
We are already worse than Greece.
I believe most of Singapore public is due government CPF liabilities. (How much CPF left after PAP’s years of casinoing still big question mark)
Fortunately, PAP’s counter party is own citizen. It can keep on fleecing and robbing our pension fund by 99 years HDB, to default the debt.
Greece is unfortunately that its counter party is Goldman Sachs.
Its the citizen who bail Singapore out. PAP is the vermin. Can all of you see that.
Come on guys.. LHH also needs to suck and lick up her bosses ass & balls so that her future look bright. Which minister dares to tell the truth.. All are coward and think abt their own future only.. They been paid millions.. and of course they don’t want to loose that income.. You all should know who is the decision maker for GIC & Temasek.. Nobody there to touch them..
The current government does not think it is necessary to be accountable to the voters for its governance of the country. They are just accountable to their perceived paymasters, i.e LHL and gang. This is absolutely immoral and I detest such arrogance from the government.
If PAP continues to be so, it will be the downfall of Singapore in the long run. I think we should vote for the downfall of PAP in the next few elections if we really care for Singapore.
i think my biggest gripe is that GIC and TH made risky investment decisions when they stubbornly insist its for the long term. the speculative nature they undertake in managing these funds is a cause of worry.
i do not dispue that in any investment decisions, losses are unavoidable. but the callous, and cavalier attitude in which they throw our money away, is torturous to swallow. it borders on being obscene and arrogant! this is no way to treat the citizens’ money and the straw that breaks the camel back is, no heads get rolled for this. 50 plus billion lost in total. it will take us 20 years to get it back!
i just want accountability and transparency. every singaporean has the right to ask for this.
>> “When we invest, we are investing for 10, 15, 20 years. You may look as if you are making a big loss today, but you have not borrowed money to invest. You will ride the storm, the company recovers, your shares go up.”
I owned some chartered semiconductor shares.. and did the shares go up? I lost $$$ when it is sold to dubai..
Granted nobody in their right mind expects GIC and TH not to make any losses on their investments. Investments, by its nature are subject to the vagaries of the markets, by external events and stock market cycles.
Mrs Lim Hwee Hua, you state a truism that nobody can quarrel with. Based on our acceptance of the statement, does it mean you can go ahead and do what you want? Continue losing money? Do not take any safeguards against further losses? Institute processes that ensure such mistakes are not repeated? C’mon, give Singaporeans some credit, we are all not as stupid as you think. What has really upsets us are not the losses (the money doesn’t come to us anyway), what upsets us is the nonchalant attitude when these losses occur. What raises our hackles is the way the people who make these mistakes carry on their jobs as though nothing happened? What grills us is the way the losses are hidden away from us. What makes us furious is the way in which inexperienced, totally incompetent and incapable family members are appointed to run these organizations.
It is the same manner in which the PAP uses the argument for foreign talent. If you accept that foreign talent is good for Singapore then more foreign talent is better. Then the argument goes that only foreign talent is good.
I believe we have given the PAP more than enough time, resources and patience to prove themselves, 50 years in fact. We believed you when you said that LKY’s son is the best person for the job of PM. We believed you that two children is more than enough and went ahead to disfigure our reproductive organs. We believed you that by paying our elite well, they would deliver good world class solutions. We also believed you when you said work hard, work smart and work long hours.
To all those who still believe in the PAP, are you able to stand aside and watch the foreigners take over Singapore, own our future and usurp the rights of our children? Do you believe that the PAP will deliver and honor their promises after breaking all the promises that they have made in the past? Do you for a moment think that they are sufficiently aware of the situation confronting Singaporeans and not come up with ridiculous statements and statistics to justify their positions?
Mrs Lim Hwee Hua, just put your money where your mouth is? Would you place your millions with GIC and TH and allow them to invest them for you? Be honest with yourself. If you have a fund manager with GIC and TH’s record of performance would you use them? Would you use them if they continue to use their loss making managers? Would you use them if they can’t tell you exactly what your market position is and asks you to trust them? If you do, then you are crazier that what we think.
80 to 100 Billion loss is peanuts lah. the combined COE, ERP and casino Levy revenues alone will cover this loss in about 4 to 6 years, not to mention the other tax revenues.
PEANUTS la.
I m simply sick and tired of all papies whenever they speak, already deaf to them. They can do no wrong decisions, always have ready made answers to fool people, the citizens are always wrong. It is time that citizens do one thing right when elections come around.
y not use her own money and no one is going to care whether it is realistic or not realistic.
GIC and Temasek must come under the purview of the Government and hence Parliament. It must be subject to the scrutiny of the people and its actions and policies questioned.
got guts then say it’s ‘not realistic’ to have old farts who take on roles like M&M and S&M, ironically it’s like what lao goh said before “pak see buay zao” (beat till death also wont go away). is it ‘realistic’ to see these M&M and S&M serve indefinitely and keep making decisions that lead to very huge losses?
Is this LHH behind the PING PONG SAGA? If so, if she can’t handle small balls issue like ping ping, then what the the billions of dollars…gosh..which corporation readily accept the fact of losing big amount of money… she might as well keep her mouth zip up
PAP smart ass want private sector pay fair enough .
private sector lost billion of dollars = CEO sack
PAP lost billion of dollar = Nothing .
Wake up my Singaporean !!! Vote this bunch of free riders out.
Vote the opp in We got nothing to loose…
STAND UP FOR SINGAPORE *@$% to PAP
@jaywalker on Wed, 10th Mar 2010 2:24 pm
“GIC and Temasek must come under the purview of the Government and hence Parliament.”
Yes,
See how they behaved in Parliament? An all round “yes” followed by monkey laughter and an all round resounding “no” in chorus of mockery.
Is this how they managed our investment portfolio as well?
Lim Hwee Hua :
Your million dollars salary is not justified.
Your investment skill & standard, we can easily find them in pasar malam or any wet market. They likely can perform better than you do.
We need you to resign !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
■meenoi on Wed, 10th Mar 2010 2:40 pm – “Is this LHH behind the PING PONG SAGA? If so, if she can’t handle small balls issue like ping ping, then what the the billions of dollars…gosh..which corporation readily accept the fact of losing big amount of money… she might as well keep her mouth zip up”
No no, that mdm ping pong fiasco is Lee Bee Hua. Anycase, both are useless aunties wasting tax payers money. Why should we be paying them MILLIONS just to be yes-woman in parliament?
They have no sense of belief, just nodding yes whenever their master dog bark. Even Pauline Hansen (yes, the racist MP) stood up to what she believed in despite going against the grain.
They’d be better off as hawkers serving mee siam mai hum exclusively to men in white with long frigid noses.
//Wizard of Id,
What a bloody good slap you delivered!! I almost could hear
the SMACK sound from where I’m sitting!!
The same goes for the HDB housing problem,using nonsensical
stats to justify all the mess they have made!!
The same goes for HEALTH care, EDUCATION, TRANSPORTATION,
the list goes on.
BTW, they are paying themselves by the $millions. Do we deserve such ‘HIGH’ quality elites?? Do we need a second thought??
hi there
1. aiyoh! simple. if what’s unrealistic, just ask the mouther what’s realistic then?
2. what are the key performance indexes of gic and its key performers?
3. if the remuneration package is pegged to “performance” then it is so damn realistic to be realistic on losses.
4. there is reward to responsibility and “performance” and yet there is no “accountability” to failure.
5. it is just a one-way street man!
6. why pay million dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to a herd of daft sheep.
I think the message is clear and Singaporean want accountability to these losses. In business, comapnies CEO and mgt team would have been sacked by the board and many resignation during the financial crisis out of shame. If ppl who manage soreign fund feels like a wood to these ‘book’ losses, they have already lost their soul and heart and feel nothing to the sweat and blood of the ppl money.
60B is equal to 600 thousands HDB home that govern would have give for free to the citizen. It means the entire generation of saving that is down the drain and lost to the American.
Will such losses be repeated again. I am sure it will. Remember how POSB was merged with DBS in 1997? That was when we lost billions in foreign exchange and bad loan for Indonesian and to the American. Again did we leart from the mistake? NO we lost again billions during the internet bubble that was created by the American and again..we lost to the wall street traders, hedge fund and American. And history repeat again and we lost again billions in buying JP, Morgan, citibank, ML, when even Warrran Buffet.
I have been hearing the phrase “long term” for the past 20-25 years from PAP. They said it whenever they want to implement unpopular policies. Shouldnt we be enjoying the fruits of those policies already?
Today they are still saying the same thing.
Obama said the same thing when he wanted to rebuild US’s foundation.
So why is PAP still using “long term”? Unless the foundation wasn’t build properly in the 1st place. And they are rebuilding and rebuilding it.
It just shows how lousy we were managed.
LSS fable of the frogs is just another way to say “long term”. We will probably be hearing it for the next 20-25 years if they or me still ard
Letter to Lim Hwee Hua,
To be frank,i also make mistakes in my investments before the crisis, but i did not use the excuse of “not realistic to avoid losses” to deceive myself. Instead, i learn from George Santayana “Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it” i hope not to make the stupid mistakes again by finding out the reasons behind my mistakes.
i also know that your husband, andy lim, an investor also make mistakes in investing in bad companies like Adv SCT, Fibrechem. Now,he is involved in Novena hldgs, hope that he does not make mistakes again. Have you asked your husband whether it is “not realistic” to avoid losses. if your husband says so, i wish good luck to both of you, you need it in your future investments as i can see you are going to follow george santayana’s quote
Not realistic for GIC to avoid losses!
How about it is also not realistic for GIC to claim they made profits?
They ought to,right? They claimed to have the best talents,so?
MORAL OF THE STORY IS CLAIM CREDIT EVEN IF IT IS NOT DUE BUT SHIRK RESPONSIBILIY WHEN THEY FUMBLE.
The guys at the top in GIC have big big ego. So they think they are Warren Buffett (maybe even better than him). So no need for due diligence.
It looks like Lim Hwee Hua is a brainless woman.
If it is investing and losing money, there is no need to engage million dollar professionals wages.
She needs to be sacked immediately !
If losses cannot be avoided, then what is the rationale of paying them TOP DOLLARS? If responsibilities can be push away and disappeared altogether?
When a spoilt kid who just inherited his grandfather fortune and are enjoying in a casino of the world, he won’t be too concerned of how much money he lost, not his hard earn money, so no heartache at all.
All the arrogant fcuker!
After hearing this! I think most SingAPOREAN GET HEART ATTACK.
This is what U citizen get humilated now. Hearing cock & bull story.
UBS did not disclosed their position at that time and using past
earning records; the offer was a good BARGAIN but the cat got
out of the Bag. It was not a BARGAIN but a rotten Bread.
Hope GIC/TH do not use long term to hide their mistake as
time pasts their mistakes now will be forgotten by the young today and the old goes to the grave. It will be a great story for Singapore if someone dig into the past when it is 2020.
Not realistic to avoid losses? Madam, is this your hint of more bad news to come? Prelude to more mega losses? Incompetence and arrogance are a sure way of squandering away our hard earned national reserves. Pappies are surely doing a good job of seriously damaging and ruining Singapore. Shame on you, pappies.
East Coast Town Council opposite Bedok library got splashed with blue paint this morning Wed 10/2/2010
Saw police cars there… Paint splashed outside the office entrance!!
Not a joke!!
“…PAP Minister Lim Hwee Hua got the cheek to say it is “not realistic” to avoid losses on every investment made by the Government of Singapore Investment Corporation or GIC.”
While it is not realistic to AVOID LOSSES, it does not mean SHOULD LOSE so much!
To me, ‘avoid losses’ sounds like to ensure TOTALLY Zero losses being made. ‘Avoid’ means completely prevented.
There is a difference between ZERO Loss vs HUGE Losses.
It’s not just Temasek and GIC that’s losing money. Some GLCs make hundreds of millions of investments overseas, after mere days of socialising with the other parties and a couple of weeks looking into their books. Needless to say, their losses will never be made public, and all is forgotten.
No lesson is learnt from these. The culprits just “move on” in their careers and the next batch of people repeat the same mistakes. It’s a culture of no personal accountability, no witchhunt.
Lim Hwee Hua should be more realistic about her pay with this kind of suggestion.
Meritocracy is said to be the hallmark of our public institutions.
The choice is starkly clear – perform or get off the stage.
It is public money at risk.
Now Low TK complained about lack of transparency in the parliment today and he got bullied by a senseless woman who was in a way telling him to go fly kite. I think you people should seriously consider garnering and sharing your views to everyone you knew. No one should be forced to choose when they do not know the truth!
Be brave, change is coming!
The issue here is not about “unrealistic”.
1. Singaporeans are setting benchmark against the performance of other sovereign wealth funds (SWF). If GIC and Temasek are performing badly compared to other SWF, we are certainly not happy.
2. Secondly, just some years ago, if I could recall, our own SWF seemed to claim that its performance was at least equal if not better than Warren Buffet’s. There was an air of arrogance then. By doing so, our SWF has raised the expection of Singaporean. With the current losses, albeit the finacial crisis, Singaporeans do not feel confident about our SWF investment strategies as we can see clearly now that we cannot match Warren Buffet’s performance.
Amidst scandalous losses, there was brave talk within TH of launching unit trusts inviting public participation in investing risks taking – of course with TH providing the “expertise”. Well that idea seems to have disappeared like an ice-cube in a bucket of hot boiling water? Or is that still in the incubation stage?
I see a variant of that idea as being MORE INVIGORATING for both TH/GIC and Singaporeans.
What do I mean?
RIGHT NOW, BOTH TH AND GIC IS NOT SUBJECT TO MARKET DISCIPLINE OF FUNDING SOURCE. It is behaving like a spoilt wayward kid, daddy ( Ministry of Finance) just provide the money and the kid/s just gambled it away as he or she pleases in the global casino. IThe kid/s can lose US$100 billion and tell Singpaorean tha it is “unrealistic” not to expect losses. NO DISCIPLINE BECAUSE DADDY CAN PROVIDE AN ENDLESS FLOW OF GAMBLING CHIPS.
What TH and GIC could do is to “privatise” their investment capital. How? By listing them on SGX and distributing THE VALUE of its investment to Singaporean, TH and GIC will be subject to MARKET PRESSURE FOR PERFORMANCE. If they stumbled again and Singaporeans all redeeming their holdings into cash, TH and GIC would be forced to sell their investment to pay for redemptions. That way they will be careful and be performing at all times. Right now, they can be reckless and indifferent to losses.
THEY CLAIM TO HAVE EXPERTISE BETTER THAN WARREN BUFFET, LET THEM HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO PROVE IT IN THE REALITY OF MARKET DISCIPLINE AND NOT HOT AIR BOASTING OF NO SUBSTANCE OF TRUTH NOR UNDER A REGIME OF MARKET PRESSURE.
As it is, they just lose public money, smiles collect big paychecks and arrogantly despise we the commoner when they and us know that it is OUR MONEY THEY GAMBLED AND LOST IN BILLIONS AFTER BILLIONS.
THEY PREACH MERITOCRACY BUT PRACTICE DEBASEMENT OF MERIT PERFORMANCE AND ACCOUNTABILITY.
WE CAN’T SACK INCOMPETENT FUND MANAGERS!! IF ALL THE INVESTORS OF TH AND GIC CASH OUT WHEN THEY STUMBLED, THEY WILL SOON HAVE NO MONEY TO INVEST AND THEY WOULD HAVE TO SACK THEMSELVES!!!
Privatising their investment base to public via stock exchange listing is a good suggestion from Reform Party.
IT IS A BRILLIANT IDEA. But will those responsible implement it after boasting in 2009 of joint public/TH pooling of funds to invest in equities???
I see TH and GIC are very quiet on this front now. THEY DON’T WANT MARKET DISCIPLINE TO FUNDING SOURCE???
If TH and GIC cannot invest better than the public holding them in cash deposit in banks or investing in equities or business opportunities, WHY SHOULD THEY BE ALLOWED TO IMPRISON OUR MONEY AND OPPORTUNITIES – paying them obscene amount of money for the pleasures of “gambling” and no accountability?
No one dispute the fact that in any investment decisions, losses are unavoidable.
In this case, to what extent is the the magnitude of our losses?
We are not talking about millions? We are talking about billions over billions! How many decades has it set Singapore back? How many decades will it take Singaporean to save all over again?
I am sure our losses are someone else’s gains.
You ought to be thankful to Singaporeans for having a bunch of morons in giving you these monies!
This is adamant to insulting the whole Singaporean citizenry intellect and not surprising coming from a group of insanely but officially corrupted paid politicians. A real disgrace and a mockery of the entire world on the so-called Singapore sovereign funds standard.
I am sure our losses are someone else’s gains.
It’s too obvious! should the nation goes into bankrupt at the speed where billions are being dumped as investment losses, think those responsible will still be around????
We are not talking about millions? We are talking about billions over billions! How many decades has it set Singapore back? How many decades will it take Singaporean to save all over again?
That’s not their problem!