Indian new citizen/PR told Singapore NSman complaining about foreigners to make himself more “marketable”
March 2nd, 2010 | 
Author: Written by Our Correspondent
A probable Indian new citizen/PR has asked a Singapore citizen and NSman complaining about unfair competition from foreigners to make himself more “marketable” on a discussion about the Budget 2010 on YPAP Facebook:
[Source: YPAP Facebook]
The discussion was started by YPAP member Genesis Shen who had expressed concerns that the PAP’s “generous spending” on the middle and lower income families in Singapore will “affect the Party’s long term policy of fiscal prudence.”
Ting Siong, a 28 year old Singapore Chinese male who had served two and a half years of National Service shared his personal experience: he had been doing one contract job one after another because the permanent jobs are mostly taken up by foreigners.
Mr Sinha Shekhar,who was born in Dhanbad, India and indicated clearly that he shared the political views of the PAP on his Facebook, replied that “there is nothing called permanent jobs” and urge Ting Siong and other Singaporeans to make themselves more “marketable and move ahead”.
He also praised the budget as being a “very prudent” one and it is “good that we have been tiSghtening our belt for quite some time.”
His insensitive and callous remarks brought a barrage of criticisms from fellow Singaporeans on the discussion who questioned if he is a new citizen or PR.
A Singaporean Sin Rak Sin told Mr Sinha to shut up:
“Sinha, Cut the bootlicking crap and shut the fxxk up, will u? We do not need a foreigner to meddle with our internal domestic affair.”
Of late, the Straits Times Forum has been publishing letters of support from these new citizens and PRs heaping praises on the PAP government.
How can Sinha expect Singaporeans to make themselves more “marketable” when they have to compete directly with foreign workers who cost a fraction of them?
Furthermore, NSmen like Ting Siong are at a disadvantage as they have to be away for 4 weeks each year due to reservist obligations.
The PAP has been actively recruiting PRs and new citizens like Sinha into their Youth Wing and grassroots organizations to boost their flagging support base.
As they are not familiar with Singapore, they tend to agree blindly with what the leaders told them, as exemplified by the comments posted by Sinha.
Due to the PAP’s liberal immigration policies, foreigners now make up 36 per cent of Singapore’s population, up from 14 per cent in 1990. Of the remaining 64 per cent who are citizens, an increasing number are born overseas like Mr Sinha.
According to a recent Wall Street Journal, the relentless influx of foreigners over the last few years has depressed the wages of ordinary Singaporeans, increased the cost of living, especially that of public housing, decreased labor productivity and led to an overall decline in the standards of living.
Faced with a potential backlash from angry voters in the coming election, the PAP is now trying to sing a different tune to placate Singaporeans.
If Singaporeans do not vote wisely in the next election, they will have to bear with the lectures of not only the PAP leaders, but their new “comrades” like Mr Sinha as well.
Posted in Review
186 Responses to “Indian new citizen/PR told Singapore NSman complaining about foreigners to make himself more “marketable””
Loading ...
Alex Tan Allan Ooi AWARE Chee Soon Juan Chiam See Tong Claire Lee David Widjaja DBS Dr Allan Ooi Dr Silviu Ionescu Foyce Le Xuan George Yeo GIC highnote5 highnotes5 Hong Lim Park Jack Lin Xinli Jack Neo Jack Neo affair Jack Neo press conference Jack Neo scandal Josie Lau Josie Lau Meng Lee Lee Kuan Yew Lehman brothers Lighthouse Evangelism Malaysia MAS minibonds Miss Singapore World NTU stabbing Pastor Rony Tan Ris Low Romanian diplomat in hit-and-run Rony Tan S-League Sex silviu ionescu Singapore Tan Kin Lian Thio Su Mien Tiger Woods affair Tong Kok Wai Top 8 Wendy Chong
WP Cumulus Flash tag cloud by Roy Tanck and Luke Morton requires Flash Player 9 or better.
Singaporean males have compulsory NS liabilities, higher wage cost to employ due to compulsory CPF contributions and higher cost of living than a foreigner due to family commitments. These mean that employers will always hire a foreigner over the Singaporean if no law is implemented to protect the Singaporean.
Majority of employee class Singaporeans are still unaware that they will be jobless soon. In George Yeo’s reply to kojakbt_89 about RWS hiring Singaporeans, he said that:
“MOM’s policy is to set dependency ratios and leave it to companies to operate freely within them. I don’t think MOM will release data for specific companies. CPF info is confidential. Why not get an MP to ask the question in Parl, PAP or Opp or NMP? But under MOM, no MFA please.”
http://forums.delphiforums.com/n/mb/message.asp?webtag=3in1kopitiam&msg=29090.1
So what does dependency ratios mean? The answer can be found from MOM website:
http://www.mom.gov.sg/publish/momportal/en/communities/work_pass/work_permit/application/requirements/computation_of_company.html
e.g. For a Services Sector company (dependency ratio 50%) with a total of 10 employees, they can hire 5 PRs and 5 foreigners. You see, a company can don’t hire a single Singaporean citizen and still comply with MOM regulations without breaking the law. This is because PR and Singapore citizens are considered as “local”. We also know how easy it is for foreigners to obtain Singapore PR nowadays.
http://www.mom.gov.sg/publish/momportal/en/communities/work_pass/work_permit/application/requirements/Services_Sector.html
When a foreigner get a managerial position in a company, he will start hiring his own relatives or friends from his own country and NO SINGAPOREANS:
Not A Quitter on Sat, 27th Feb 2010 11:13 pm wrote:
I am a victim of our gahmen pro-foreigner policy. I was so close to getting a job after many rounds of successful interviews not too long after my retrenchment some years back and then came this PRC hiring manager who just came on board the company then. He rejected my application and heard later that the opening went to a fellow PRC. What followed was a year w/o job before I finally found one but outside S’pore, painfully detached from my young family of 2 kids! It’s an irony to see PRCs easily getting jobs in S’pore when I as a NS serving citizen was forced to seek a living in their country.
http://www.temasekreview.com/2010/02/27/singaporeans-outraged-at-pap-providing-free-tertiary-education-to-prc-scholars-for-them-to-work-in-china/
This is why the system is flawed. It only benefits MIW, Businessmen and FTs at the expense of the country’s citizenry.
Quote : “How can Sinha expect Singaporeans to make themselves more “marketable” when they have to compete directly with foreign workers who cost a fraction of them?”
Regardless of the presence of foreigners or otherwise, Singaporeans should strive to make themselves marketable constantly. Go for upgrading. Acquire new knowledge that will strengthen your skills. I do not deny that foreign workers are working for less as compared to Singaporeans but that is not an excuse not to upgrade ourselves. Currently, foreigners have an advantage over locals, which is lower wages. Why not turn the table around by making ourselves more marketable?
Businesses do not owe Singaporeans jobs. Just because you are a grad from NUS or NTU does not mean you should receive preferential treatment in terms of getting a job. If a foreigner comes along with the relevant skills requesting for a lower salary, why should any business hire a grad who is asking for more salary than the foreign counterpart just because he is a Singaporean? Does not make business sense does it? Undeniably , reservists obligations put Singaporean males at a disadvantage and that is a good reason by itself for Singaporean, especially guys, to make themselves more marketable.
Why must it be label NSmen… Political suicide.
too bad for us ladies and gentleman, this is a short snippet of what singapore will be in the future. You will be marginalized, enslaved, and discriminated against. Please keep on voting in fear. This is what you voted for, and if this is something you want more in the future.
Ultimately, these cheap FT who came to replace us will also be replaced by cheaper FT either in a micro or marco way. It is a vicious cycle. I have seen many of such cases. Once there was a great Semiconductor Company in Woodland in the early 90s. Started with Singaporeans, later, one-by-one was replaced by FTs and their cronies….
Can TR post a link to the actual thread? It’ll be good to have some of us give direct feedback to that thread.
“Mr Sinha Shekhar,who was born in Dhanbad, India and indicated clearly that he shared the political views of the PAP on his Facebook, replied that “there is nothing called permanent jobs” and urge Ting Siong and other Singaporeans to make themselves more “marketable and move ahead”.”
Actually, Sinha is right; regardless of the presence of foreign workers, there IS nothing called permanent jobs. What, is anyone still thinking like our parent’s generation, that one should “study hard, and get a permanent job”?
Sinha is also right by saying that we should make ourselves more marketable and move ahead. This in fact, is always true in the job market – you always need to gain skills that makes you better than your peers and move ahead when the opportunity presents itself. In fact, isn’t there a global term called “Rat Race” that is representative of this fact
Singaporeans being victims of PAP’s misguided foreign worker policies doesn’t mean we should criticise each and every foriegn workers working here. They “made themselves marketable” and moved ahead of their peers by going to a country with better prospects.
Let’s just keep the criticism to PAP and their misguided policies rather than posting an almost fascist article like this blaming everything on foreign workers for daring to want a better life for themselves and their family.
This mainland Indian dude should STFU about NS.
BTW, ‘prudent’ is just euphemism for ’stingy’ when it comes to describing this year’s Budget. Compare it with those of previous years and you will see.
Quote:
“If Singaporeans do not vote wisely in the next election, they will have to bear with the lectures of not only the PAP leaders, but their new “comrades” like Mr Sinha as well.”
TR, hope you aren’t going the so-called “one-sided” by Mr Sear.
Let us as the reader & commenter do the commenting.
Now lets see, with new policy, home grown singaporeans can go up to 40 days of reservist per year to be consider 1 cycle. meaning at lest 5 weeks.
I do agree that making ourselve more marketable is correct. But, making ourselve too marketable till we can’t feed our family.. that VERY VERY BAD…
One fine day, we home grown singaporeans might be eating only white rice with curry gravy like those blangadesh worker eat for their meal.. Does the goverment hope for that?
Businesses will natuarally go for the best bottom line. Its the same in most if not all countries.
The difference is that in other countries, their governmrnt put their own citizens 1st. ( when implementing policies)
By both words & action.
This is a clear-cut case of adding salt to the long bleeding wound. In no other country can you find a foreigner or new citizen lecturing the locals in such a manner. It is happening in Singapore only because the PAP allows it.
Singaporeans have been repeatedly screwed up. How should we respond? It is never a wise thing to put all your eggs in one basket – and in this case the PAP basket. Wise up Singaporeans.
To CashCow01 on Mon, 1st Mar 2010 8:37 am,
You sure sounds like someone who was in the news recently… “cheaper, better, faster… “?
I would venture that you are not a Singaporean or have benefitted from the system. I have personally seen countless example of 2 candidates with similar credentials, one a Singaporean and the other a foreigner, while the hiring manager is another foreigner of the same nationality. Guess who got the job
Singaporean is just asking for what the basic entitlement of being a citizen
If the Leaders elected (read, hired) by the citizens cannot even ensure citizens have preferential treatment over foreigners then it is time the citizen give the alternatives, any alternatives, a chance to do what they are paid for
This will also hopefully give a chance for the future Singaporean a better tomorrow
Let’s start with those that failed their KPI:
1. Out of control public housing price => Mr MND
2. Out of control employment market => Mr MoM
3. Huge and countless investment losses => MoF
4. Serious breach of national security => MHA
Any more?
To cashcow01 who said “”Businesses do not owe Singaporeans jobs. Just because you are a grad from NUS or NTU does not mean you should receive preferential treatment in terms of getting a job. If a foreigner comes along with the relevant skills requesting for a lower salary, why should any business hire a grad who is asking for more salary than the foreign counterpart just because he is a Singaporean?”"
Hey this is Singapore for Singaporeans!! tell this to China , India, and the other countries to do the same. Cashcow is condemning the value of Spore citizenship and cheapening it to dollars and cents by comparing with foreigners’ lower salaries.
The sacrifice and disadvantage of spending time in national service is a bane to our male citizens. This alone is making our male citizens less marketable than our foreign counterpart. The cost of living in Singapore is also weighing down on citizens.
It is unfair to ask our citizens to compete with foreigners when the platform is tilted. When you are to bear a heavy load over your shoulder to run the marathon, those who are free and light jeered at your slowness it is really unbearable.
If our citizens have a cheap hinterland to turn back to when we run into trouble, no need to serve national service and our family is living in a cheap country, we will win hands down against these foreigners as far as I know Singapore’s workers are most marketable.
The jab at Singaporean is unfair and cost our loyalty towards our country and the love lost will eventually weaken the structure of this country. Even if we have the best strategy and weapon, if the moral of our people is poor, we will not win any war. Who will really want to die for a country that mistreated its people.
The fabric of this society is stretched, torn and tattered due to poor management by the incumbent. Such nonsense from our PR who are not obligated to our country destiny is engaging the wrath of our citizenry. Their privilege of stay in our country must be stripped and terminated immediately if they don’t serve national service immediately.
Let me make an example:
A singaporean & a Foreigner from India on work permit looking for a computer IT job. Both asking for 2k dollar salaries
Singaporean – The company have to pay the 2k dollar & on top of that another 13% of CPF contribution & this singaporean can only take home 1.6k dollar due to the 20% employee contribution. Also, this singaporean have to attend about 5 weeks of Reservist per year.
Foreigner – The Company only have to pay a direct of 2k for this particular worker & ends the stories here. He get to brign back the full 2k dollars he does not need to contribute CPF. This Foreigner doesn’t need to serve the reservist.
Now, if i were to be the boss. I definiatly go for the foreigner, who wouldn’t? I do not need to pay extra 13% & he can also work the full period of his contract.
For the singaporean, this is a losing end, he could only bring back 1.6k of salaries even when he asked for 2k (which company take it as 2k + 13% salaies), and he have a family to feed, a flat to support while the foreigner only rents a flat & his alone…
Hope the goverment is looking at this, as it will clear your mind what is actually happening at the private sector… while goverment sector forcus on employing more singaporean in terms of percentage. but, the private sector doesn’t share your view at all.
The marketplace is fought out on price not on skills. So FT’s are getting the upperhand because they are dirt cheap. So don’t kid yourself that you have skills that we don’t have.
This government has made a big mistake. On the one hand, it mouths policies to promote productivity whereas its actions kill any chance of increasing productivity.
So much for these world class clowns.
Cheaper, faster, better = Foreigners without NS liability.
Actually….there is no need to argue so much abt Sgreans,PRs, FT/FWs, NS obligations, Salary. Fact of the matter, the MIWs are treating the country as a company, a mega corporation….where the bottomline is of primary importance. To them, there is no difference between locals, prs, fts etc, we are all just pawns in their game of economics.
Get them out of power?….Frankly…it will be tough….most of our bethrens are just not ready for change.
Taking a leave from this pap bootlicker, I agree sgreans should upgrade and move on…..to another country that is. What for scarifice time and effort to do NS, pay taxes etc for the benefit of all these foreigners?
Fxxx U FTRASH!
I believe when the government let the 1st generation migrant exemption from NS is because these migrant(like Doctors or Professors, they are of certain age like close to 45 or more and have family with sons, then their will have to serve NS sound reasonable. But when migrant(be it India or China or Philippine,etc etc come over to study here and work or some even just work here then they’re on par to our citizen who also study in their own country after having to compete with these migrant who here on study visa and start to work here form his family here (these group who solely come here to study or work visa must serve NS too) if not they use our place as stepping stone and move on to some other place or even their own country and make us a cuckoo or sucker. I hope our government will amend their policy to make these young people who come to work or study( even if they are 1st generation) serve NS so as to proof their sincerity to make Singapore their so call beloved country(who they will protect with their life). Also have to fine tune like when they here to study or work and they’re still young and with family young family they even 1st generation will have to serve NS just like our citizen who married young and have young family also have to serve NS. Or even women who come over and get a job, then get their husband(who are young) over then with her PR status her young husband will get PR and job and they will in better position in getting job then our young citizen, so this case their husband must serve NS too before he can(PR)then allow to get job. Let have a fair competition, and this is only FAIR.
To all sg
Stop the complaining. Either you protest for change, vote for change, voice for change, email for change, stand for change. If not , you people should look at yourself and shut up which i think is quite true.
Wait until a terrorist pretending to be an immigrant do something funny here then the gahmen will wake up to it’s open door policy on FTs.
Quote Singapore Parent : “I would venture that you are not a Singaporean or have benefitted from the system. I have personally seen countless example of 2 candidates with similar credentials, one a Singaporean and the other a foreigner, while the hiring manager is another foreigner of the same nationality. Guess who got the job”
I am born Singaporean, I was raised in this country and I served my NS 2.5 years. The problem lies with the goverment, not with foreigners. Foreigners here are to make a living and steal away jobs from Singaporeans because THE GOVERNMENT ALLOWS IT TO HAPPEN. If Singapore is to implement laws similiar to Australia where a foreigner needs to be paid at the market level, then we wouldn’t be having this debate right now. My point is that since foreigners have the advantage of commanding a lower pay, Singaporeans should built up their own advantage, which is to be more marketable. How are we going to compete if the foreigners have skills and work for lower wages?
Quote :
“Singaporean is just asking for what the basic entitlement of being a citizen
If the Leaders elected (read, hired) by the citizens cannot even ensure citizens have preferential treatment over foreigners then it is time the citizen give the alternatives, any alternatives, a chance to do what they are paid for”
Let’s be logical here. If you are running a business and you have high overhead to cover every month such as rental and utility bills and your profit margin is very thin, would you still hire a local who is more expensive than a foreigner assuming both of them possess the same set of skills? Business wise and logically, the employer would choose the foreigner. Why is that so? Because factors like high rental and reservist obligations come into the picture.
IMHO, there are 2 types of PMET FTs.
1. Singaporeans dont have that skill set. Therefore need to import FT from somewhere. Because of demand and supply, theoretically, this grp of FT should cost very high.
Quote “sicktothebones” : “Hey this is Singapore for Singaporeans!! tell this to China , India, and the other countries to do the same. Cashcow is condemning the value of Spore citizenship and cheapening it to dollars and cents by comparing with foreigners’ lower salaries.”
Hey, don’t put words into my mouth. I do not condemn Singapore and its people. Singapore is indeed for Singaporean. But in the world of commerce, businesses are run to maximize profits. They do not function as charity organizations. Like I said before, doesn’t mean you are a Singaporean, means you should receive preferential treatment to getting jobs. The responsibility to ensure preferential treatment lies with the government, not businesses. If the government fails to act accordingly, why should businesses regulate themselves? Because you are a Singaporean?
What’s the point of getting emotional? We must be firm, strong and logical and fight our enemies with clear minds.
IMHO, there are 2 types of PMET FTs.
1. Singaporeans dont have that skill set. Therefore need to
import FT from somewhere.
Because of demand and supply, theoretically, this grp of FT should cost very high.
2. No enuff Singaporeans to do the job. So need to import FT from somewhere.
If that is the case, no reason for FT to cost less than Singaporeans since they are here to boast our strengths.
However it seems the opp is happening. How come FT cost less than Singaporeans? Doesnt make sense. Unless they are here to replace us?
In addition, if there is a global competition for these FTs, shouldnt their cost be higher due to supply and demand again?
To CashCow01 on Mon, 1st Mar 2010 10:37 am,
“My point is that since foreigners have the advantage of commanding a lower pay, Singaporeans should built up their own advantage, which is to be more marketable. How are we going to compete if the foreigners have skills and work for lower wages?”
Hang on there… why should we, citizens, who owns this (is)land, need to COMPETE with foreigners?
If we have already have people with the skill sets needed, then why do we still let in so many foreigners? To please the MNCs? If yes then let me ask you, citizen comes first or investment?
“Let’s be logical here. If you are running a business and you have high overhead to cover every month such as rental and utility bills and your profit margin is very thin, would you still hire a local who is more expensive than a foreigner assuming both of them possess the same set of skills? Business wise and logically, the employer would choose the foreigner. Why is that so? Because factors like high rental and reservist obligations come into the picture”
Totally agree, from a profit-taking institution point of view. But are we talking about running a company or taking care of a country here?
If we manage a country like a corporation, then using your arguement, since we employ those Leaders and they cannot perform (cannot ensure employment, make Singapore attractive, etc) then we should let in some foreigners to do their job. Agree?
PAP – please listen up to your own citizens before they get hopeless and vote against you.
there is no use of complaining anymore.
change will be coming.
To New Threat on Mon, 1st Mar 2010 10:48 am,
“if there is a global competition for these FTs, shouldnt their cost be higher due to supply and demand again?”
Good point
My guess is, we are not attracting the cream, but maybe the middle or lower rag candidates. Really, it’s just my guess
Maybe we can ask the Leaders with their ministries of experts to come up with a report on this
Quote New Threat : “However it seems the opp is happening. How come FT cost less than Singaporeans? Doesnt make sense. Unless they are here to replace us?”
That depends on an individual perspective on cost. To Singaporean, what we see as low cost could be high from the eyes of a foreigner. Same goes if you work in countries of higher standard of living.
I think the term FT (Foreign Talent) should not be used. If I am truly a talent, then I should demand high pay because I acknowledge myself as a talent. But if any foreign tom, dick and harry can label themselves as talent, then I suppose we can call ourselves local talents (LT).
What the hell is this Leech indian national Sinha Shekhar up to ???!!!
Without indian national Sinha Shekhar India is fortunate to prosperous but very unfortunate for singapore to have such Leech.
But with more idiots like indian national Sinha Shekhar the catalyst effect will be stronger and faster.
Leech ! Thank You !!!
Firstly, why would foreign companies invest in Singapore? If they want cheap labour, they will invest in PRC or India. Companies need highly skill and productive workers or staff to remain competitive. So what wrong with Singapore in that the floodgate is opened when cheap labourers with low skill and productivity are able to find job in Singapore????
To CashCow01 on Mon, 1st Mar 2010 10:37 am,
Maybe you can refer to the article below:
http://www.temasekreview.com/2010/03/01/how-pap-screws-up-singapores-labor-productivity-with-its-open-door-policy-to-foreign-workers/
Looks like your point about businesses preference over cheaper labor might yield opposite results
Sigh – looks like Singapore Inc is no more a country for singaporeans.
There are many articles of immense substance for Singaporeans to understand the STANCE of PAP & LKY.
1. UBS article comparing Singapore & Russia on living standard its a little long and boring but the points are SOLID
2. The myth of Asia’s miracle by Paul krugman very SOLID truth.
3. Kenneth J. rebuttal to finance minister.
All these tree articles points out SOLID facts and figures for debate contribution and comments,SADLY not much response besides Anonymous and a few others.BUT when it is gossip and raunchy articles its a never ending song.
Singapore deserve PAP rule as they are only interested in gossips & small talk. When a true ISSUE is glaring in their face they either avoid,skim and BOCHAP but gleefully post non stop on Rony Tan, China Girls etc.etc……
Re CashCow01
I have a suggestion to Singaporean Youth.
Our country is goin to dagger you by slave conscription and sabo your career prospect by slave reservice. You ahould avoid draft by the time you turn 18.
Just go Canada on one way ticket and apply political assylum just like many Yankees did during the NAM war.
Go to Gopalan Nair website and he will tell you more ways you can escape the slavery.
This is a clear human violation. Your country has nothing good to give you except shit. You protect those foreigners and landlord and they treat you like dogs.
I have regretted serving the Fxxking SAF. Already, many young people nowadays avoid draft goin Canada and havin a life of king. I believe more will do so.
The FTs and elites seems to forget that their wealth derives on the pre-requisite of citizen soldiers against the minions of UMNO.
We have nothing to lose goin Canada. By then, we watch and see how PAP can defend country with only his elite officer
Quote Singapore Parent : “Hang on there… why should we, citizens, who owns this (is)land, need to COMPETE with foreigners?
If we have already have people with the skill sets needed, then why do we still let in so many foreigners? To please the MNCs? If yes then let me ask you, citizen comes first or investment?”
Come on, we NEED to compete with foreigners because we need the exposure. We cannot afford to be enclosed, right? Competition is the engine for innovation and success. But what we need is not a free market, but a fair one as well. Let foreigners come here and compete but competition must be fair. For starters, foreigners must work in Singapore at the market rate and market rate must be adjusted according to the standard of living. Also, no more reservists obligations. Suppose if that scenario happens. I can guarantee that the foreigners would be complaining instead of the locals. One good example is Australia. I have friends studying and working there complaining how hard it is for them to secure jobs. Well, that’s understandable due to the FREE AND FAIR market Australia adopts.
Quote : “Totally agree, from a profit-taking institution point of view. But are we talking about running a company or taking care of a country here?
If we manage a country like a corporation, then using your arguement, since we employ those Leaders and they cannot perform (cannot ensure employment, make Singapore attractive, etc) then we should let in some foreigners to do their job. Agree?”
But it seems the people here are confused about running a company and managing a country.
True. A country cannot be managed like a company because it is more people-centric rather than profit-centric. But if the government chooses to run the country like a business, then what choice do the citizens of Singapore have except to vote out the current government. But as you know, bringing about change in this country is difficult because rules and laws can always be changed according to the fancy of the current government.
Agree. They should be replaced due to their incompetence. Hypocritical and double standard. However, I do disagree the part where foreigners should be let in to replace them.
TR, seriously, I think you guys need to implement some kind of quoting function. It would be good.
To CashCow01 on Mon, 1st Mar 2010 10:37 am
We can upgrade as much as we can, but companies will always go for the cheaper labour, which are the FTs.
The failure is, in the companies that do not have fresh ideas on how to increase their profits, by innovating; job redesign; creating new goods and services; and targeting new market segments.
So to keep afloat; they cut costs (which normally means cutting wages or services) and equate productivity to longer working hours instead of equating the output of the worker to the companies’ overall profit and loss.
Singaporeans can always upgrade till they can have top-notch MBAs or Doctorates, but they will still lose out to an FT just because, they are cheaper than us, and not necessarily better than us.
If a business have hit a brick wall, and is fresh out of ideas to make profits, they should be allowed to fail. They should leave and make room for hungrier and innovative entrepreneurs.
A person should be employed because he has the skills to do the job. Not because he can be a liability to the company because he is perceived to be too expensive for the company to employ.
And let me remind you, the Singaporean Chinese are already feeling the heat from the FTs/FWs. Have you all ever thought about the Indians and Malays who are unable to get the job just because they are not Chinese? Have you ever gave a thought to the minorities? What excuse do you have for such companies that employs solely on racial biases?
to cashcow1
yes because I AM A SINGAPOREAN. PM Lee says Sporeans will always come first. If businesses wnat cheaper foreigners then please relocate somewhere else. This is my country, I serve 2.5 years of NS and endured 13 years shit reservist.
You have no EQ to come and tell me about business wanting foreigners cos they are cheaper!!
I think I am going to look for upgrade training to be more marketable as an “old gigolo”….. so as to address these two important issues discussed here :
1. to be more marketable
2. to explore all avenues of survival
Soon, they’ll hire Africans.
Then, Iraqis, and Afganistanis.
Then lastly,
real life monkeys, they only need peanuts, no need cash!
Cashcow1 said “If a foreigner comes along with the relevant skills requesting for a lower salary, why should any business hire a grad who is asking for more salary than the foreign counterpart just because he is a Singaporean”
This is not foreignergapore but singapore. if any tom daft and harry foreigner can just come in and ask for lower salaries – we will all die with the cost of livings here skyhigh. what’s the meaning and value of this Spore citizenship if cashcow1 allows this open door to depress our salaries?
why not also allow a foreign minister with same qualifications asking for a lower salary than our million dollar local ministers – why should we pay so much more to our ministers just because they are Sporeans. Hire the foreign minister to run our country!
Re CashCow01
I love foreigner. But not the slavery way of PAP FT.
We can actually emulate Geneva (somewhere around 40% FT) or Zurich. They have plenty of foreigner, the real smart type that create value of locals. The mediocre foreigners are being kept out.
Even the Mcdonald boy in Geneva can earn more than SG engineer.
We need Jim Rogers, Andy Xie…etc
PAP’s FT is nothing but slave policy. Our standard has drop so much, now that even Chinaman despise SG and want go back Shanghai Beijing.
Landlords and elites cheers.
Quote sicktothebones : “You have no EQ to come and tell me about business wanting foreigners cos they are cheaper!!”
Look. Be logical. I am both sympathetic to the plights of Singaporeans who are squeezed out from the job market and the employers who have to deal with rising business cost. What’s the point of being emotional and angry and saying all kind of rhetorical comments?
Why don’t we kill two birds with one stone? Since our population is falling, any PR who is holding a job should become citizen in say two years. This will give them ample time to consider and for Singapore to know their true loyalty. Also, when they become citizens, all the problems faced by citizens will also be face by the converted PRs to citizens. Employers will then have to pay these new converts like any other citizens.
Work permnit holders are a different ball-game. They take jobs that no Singaporean wants.
NS is a hugh liability for S’porean male. A**holes like Shekhar will not be such big mouth if they have to fulfill this liabilty as well. While you have to fight for yr country, you lose yr fight in your career. Where got logic???
To YWM on Mon, 1st Mar 2010 11:10 am
If you have been working in production line before e.g mircoelectronic/electronic/farbic line…. you will notice a trend that most of this so-call production line has alrdy been moved to some of the country you have mention.
@CashCow01
Yes, you r right if thru the eyes FT, what we see as low, is seen as high for them.
When I wrote the comments above, I was trying to think from a policy maker or a CEO’s perpective.
I just feel that we just need to be clear on why we need FTs. Is it because of the 2 pts I raise or because they are here to compete with us. Because there are some pple I spoke still think the reason why we need them is because of my 2 pts.
To answer your pt, if I’m a boss who can’t find enough Singaporeans to do the job, I will probably look for alternative sources. However the danger is when I (as the boss) begin to entertain thoughts of hiring FTs because they are cheaper.
JOBS FOR FOREIGNERS, NS FOR SINGAPOREANS
JOBS FOR FOREIGNERS, NS FOR SINGAPOREANS
Quote Incredulous : “We can upgrade as much as we can, but companies will always go for the cheaper labour, which are the FTs.
The failure is, in the companies that do not have fresh ideas on how to increase their profits, by innovating; job redesign; creating new goods and services; and targeting new market segments.”
To understand why this is happening, we need to look at the root cause. Suppose if we don’t solve the root cause and implement laws that enforces companies to hire more Singaporeans. Not only do these companies have to axe foreigners, these companies have to axe Singaporean staffs as well. Hiring more Singaporeans incur most cost and to balance that out, more Singaporeans staffs have to go. Those remaining ones will have their workload increase, thus increasing stress and increase the probability of the remaining staffs of resigning. If a staff resigns, and hires a new staff, cost in terms of time incurs because it takes time to train the new staff. Time is money.
If a company is so concerned about its profit margin and trying to survive, why would it invest in innovation and exploring fresh ideas? Maybe that explains why Singapore is so devoid of innovation. Everyone is trying to survive. Who has time to think of new ideas when the existing operations need a lot of attention?
Quote : “So to keep afloat; they cut costs (which normally means cutting wages or services) and equate productivity to longer working hours instead of equating the output of the worker to the companies’ overall profit and loss.”
Well, that’s their definition of productivity. We need to change that definition for them. I agree with your definition of productivity.
Quote : “If a business have hit a brick wall, and is fresh out of ideas to make profits, they should be allowed to fail. They should leave and make room for hungrier and innovative entrepreneurs.”
Well, if businesses have a hard time, I am sure that future ones will face the same obstacles. If that’s the case, I think we should help the existing ones so that future ones will not be faced with such barriers.
Quote : “A person should be employed because he has the skills to do the job. Not because he can be a liability to the company because he is perceived to be too expensive for the company to employ.
I agree from an ideal point of view, not from a practical point of view.
Quote : ”
And let me remind you, the Singaporean Chinese are already feeling the heat from the FTs/FWs. Have you all ever thought about the Indians and Malays who are unable to get the job just because they are not Chinese? Have you ever gave a thought to the minorities? What excuse do you have for such companies that employs solely on racial biases?
“
All these years, when the minorities were discriminated by the majority chinese, did anyone from the majority spoke up for them? Did anyone fight for their rights? So, I think it’s quite hypocritical when anyone from the majority brings up the issue of racial bias-ness. Let’s see this problem from Singaporeans’ point of view, not from individual races. Everyone is a Singaporean, regardless of race, language or religion.
Aiyoh! Humans are born to be selfish, my dear! If I am the first generation of prs of Singapore, I will also support the mandatory requirement of born and bred citizens to provide free service of their most precious years to the defense force of the country as this bunch of “army slaves” are using their sweat and blood to protect the properties and lives of “ALL RESIDENTS” residing in the this litter-black-mark in case there is a break out of “WAR”.
In peace time, this bunch of “idiotic” off-springs of born and bred Singaporeans are providing deterrence to other potential aggressors by maintaining a “Strong Arm Forces” so as to create an environment conducive for mnc/international communities to invest in Singapore at the same time to provide abundance employment and jobs for the foreigners and the prs.
In short, the new citizens, prs and fts definitely will support the ruling party’s policies without doubts.
In the first place, without declaring loyalty to the ruling party, do you opine that they can gain a strong foot-hold in their newly adopted country, don’t you?
What is the point of ranting and raving so vociferously and cacophonic-ally when the new citizens and prs are still sycophantically buttering-up to this bunch of million-dollar nerds cum ingrates to achieve their selfish personal agendas?
Vote for the changes, vote for the opposition parties to solve all your grievances!
Cashcow, we will not be emotional, but we will make our vote “Correctly” this time round.
Of course a foreign thrash will say anything to defend his position. There is no way these 3rd world refugees are going back to their ramshackle villages and pig sties. I know many Indians who curse life in India and tell me their cities are not meant for people to live in. So rest assured, they will do ANYTHING to remain in better host cuntries!
Seems like there’s stooges around that will defend the government’s policy no matter what… such pro government comments are more frequent since last week. It is no coincidence, a new offensive perhaps.
I really hate this this guy. Makes me puke. Lets rally together and get him to leave Singapore.
Quote count : “Seems like there’s stooges around that will defend the government’s policy no matter what… such pro government comments are more frequent since last week. It is no coincidence, a new offensive perhaps.”
One should discern between making passing emotional rhetorical statements and looking at things from a logical perspective. Like for example, instead of wasting your time online making such comments, what are you doing to ensure your future is better secured given that you are facing an onslaught of foreigners? Are you going to sit down and whine like a small kid or are you going to act like an adult and fight for what’s truly yours? Whine or fight? Which side are you on?
When PM says Singaporeans come first. Stop and think for a while, don’t just absorb them without afterthoughts. Singaporeans come first only if all other things being equal. Example, if foreigners & PR offers the same pay for the job, then only Singaporeans come first and get the job.
If PR and foreigners offer a lower pay for the job, then there is a unequal variable being introduced. In this case, foreigners come first. This applies to any endeavours in Singapore. Hope I made this clear.
To CashCow01 on Mon, 1st Mar 2010 11:24 am,
“Come on, we NEED to compete with foreigners because we need the exposure. We cannot afford to be enclosed, right?”
I do not agree that we need to “compete” with foreigners. Controlled “competition”, sure. If foreigners want to come here for the job opportunity, then let them come on our terms
Maybe we do not need foreigners to serve NS (mostly because they are not loyal to this land). Wish list from my simple mind:
1. First and foremost is, RESPECT us, the HOST. Just come here, work, get paid and stay away from our domestic affairs
2. Since you like the salary here, then please contribute the tax accordingly. This means higher than the true pink Singaporean, in terms of income tax, CPF (a distorted form of income tax), etc. Vice versa, let foreigners pay the level of tax we do now, while true pink Singaporeans get to contribute less – if we can survive this long, then foreigners should be even more capable of (with less committments, dependents, etc)
Of course those foreigners who bring with them investment, (qualified) special skills or are willing to work in areas that Singaporean really shunt then, well, let’s give them tax rebate at the end of the year
“However, I do disagree the part where foreigners should be let in to replace them”
Do not agree. Personally I do not expect my employees to be loyal to me. They just need to agree to meet the KPIs against the level of pay, at the beginning of their employment contract (annually? 5-yearly?). If they cannot perform, then come yearly appraisal time, they will be replaced by someone “cheaper, better, faster”, Singaporean or not (competition?)
(Compare the above to what our “employees” is currently telling us, their employers)
To CashCow01:
You said: “If a foreigner comes along with the relevant skills requesting for a lower salary, why should any business hire a grad who is asking for more salary than the foreign counterpart just because he is a Singaporean? Does not make business sense does it?”
On the surface, your statement is perfectly logical since SG is a free and open economy. Govt opened the door to allow foreigners to obtain visit pass or the 1 yr Employment Pass Eligibility Certificate [EPEC] to seek employment. Businesses are free to hire locals and foreigners since there’re so many to choose from.
But, when u think deeper and the long term consequences. You’ll see the negative effects and social impacts on Singapore, especially for local guys. Wages being pushed down, guys refuse to get married, harder to find jobs etc. It is very clear that 15-18yrs of NS/ICT/RT has a very big impact on our personal life and employability and the govt is unfair to let cheap workers take away our jobs.
Sure, the govt can go all out to make sure we have growth and larger economy. Businesses are allowed to hire more cheaper foreigners. For every job that a foreigner secures, it could mean a local didn’t get that job. On paper we hv more growth but quality of life is falling. All these comes at a price.
@CashCow01
How is it that by implementing singaporean only policy will cause Singaporeans to be axed. I understand if FT are axed but I am not sure how SG will be axed. Since FT have already left, Singaporeans are needed to fill their positions. Even if no more hiring of Singaporeans, the existing ones shouldnt be axed.
What ’singaporeans’ are you people talking about? The ‘mandarin-speakers preferred’ singaporeans? The ‘must maintain a racial balance in favour of the chinese’ singaporeans? The ’speak mandarin and appreciate chinese culture as opposed to others’ singaporeans? The ‘mother tongue policy that makes on sector more marketable regionally than others’ singaporeans?
It’s not very pleasant when the selfsame plight is visited upon you in the face of the new foreigners, but perhaps that could lead to the growth of an empathetic propensity on your part. Or has preceding conditions led to your being too well-trained in the art of self-absorption to care? To the opposition, anything to say about this? I think not.
We need to be more understanding of our fellow Singaporeans. I can understand why they are being emotional. Some of them could have gotten retrenched, some “bullied”.
I have experienced all of them before. It can be very therapeutic to know there are pple who share the same experience and are going thru the same shit.
This FT should go OZ and tell the locals there about unfair competition and job security.
Quote sgman : “But, when u think deeper and the long term consequences. You’ll see the negative effects and social impacts on Singapore, especially for local guys. Wages being pushed down, guys refuse to get married, harder to find jobs etc. It is very clear that 15-18yrs of NS/ICT/RT has a very big impact on our personal life and employability and the govt is unfair to let cheap workers take away our jobs.
Sure, the govt can go all out to make sure we have growth and larger economy. Businesses are allowed to hire more cheaper foreigners. For every job that a foreigner secures, it could mean a local didn’t get that job. On paper we hv more growth but quality of life is falling. All these comes at a price.”
I agree with you on the list of social repercussions Singapore is facing right. But like I mentioned before in an earlier post, THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD REGULATE BUSINESSES, NOT BUSINESSES THEMSELVES. The citizens have no right to order businesses to hire more Singaporeans because the option to hire more foreigners is on the table.
CashCow01 on Mon, 1st Mar 2010 12:06 pm
I really like to see us all as Singaporeans and not as CMIO. But this is not the case.
When you have institutionalised racial discrimination created by our own govt. Our local companies will follow suit without fear of repercussions.
The majority will always overlook the rights of the minority.
So, I find it incredulous to see the so called born and bred, whining about jobs being taken over by FTs/FWs, but it was okay for them when the minorities’ access to job opportunities was overlooked because of racial bias.
To quote “To understand why this is happening, we need to look at the root cause”
The root of the issues was Singaporeans keeping silent and agreeing it is okay for our govt and companies to do unscrupulous things as long as it does not affect their bread and butter.
Local Singaporeans have been ‘okay’ and tend to turn a blind eye, as long as it favours them. And the govt and companies kept pushing the boundaries on how much unscrupulous stuff they can do while Singaporeans kept silent as long as it does not affect them.
And now it has blown up into their own faces when our govt. and companies pushed the boundaries too far, until the local Singaporeans themselves are being replaced by cheaper alternatives.
To say we need to upgrade to make us more marketable is a slap to our faces, when we know, the FTs/FWs are no better than us and only got the job because they are cheaper. But in all this hulloballo we have forgotten the minorities who are not only facing competition from the FTs/FWs, but also the majority Singaporean Chinese.
What we need to do is to stop nannying the companies. Giving them so called tax-breaks or training grants. Let these companies who are struggling, die a natural death. To survive they must not be afraid to innovate; redesign job ; create new goods and services; and target new market segments.
If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. So should we be surprised, that companies that hire staff solely based on low wages are struggling to survive?
Quote New Threat : “We need to be more understanding of our fellow Singaporeans. I can understand why they are being emotional. Some of them could have gotten retrenched, some “bullied”.
I have experienced all of them before. It can be very therapeutic to know there are pple who share the same experience and are going thru the same shit.”
Indeed we should. Once a person has passed the period of negative emotions like pain and anger, he/she must look beyond the emotions and start to fight. Cannot forever stay emotional and wallow in self-pity.
This is a fact, an audit firm, not the big 4. The interviewer is an indonesian who interview all staff. She will hire indonesian chinese or malaysian chinese but never singaporean. When her boss ask her why, she will say the singaporean not interested.
This is a real life example seen by ppl i know who by the way are not singaporeans.
Why? because she will help her own kind. This is a fact. only the blind would think we can market ourselves. yes by changing to indonesian than reapplying as FT. maybe you get a great more headstart if that is possible.
@A2ed
How are we ‘mandarin-speakers preferred’ singaporeans?
U have such an experience before? Maybe because they need to have Mandarin speaking because of China. I’m sure it will be “Indian speaking preferred” if its India as well.
The ’speak mandarin and appreciate chinese culture as opposed to others’ singaporeans?
Maybe because the younger SG Chinese are begining to lose touch with their culture, more so than the rest of the minorities?
The ‘must maintain a racial balance in favour of the chinese’ singaporeans?
Cant comment abt this. Only PAP will know.
People like Sinha cannot be blamed for being a readdy and eager Bootlicker of the Pee and Pee…after all people like Sinha come from a country whose curent slogan is “Incredible India” where a full 20% of their population (at least 250million of them) have never lived in ahome with Flushed Toilet.
A country where 250million people have been oppressed and treated like slaves and called “Dalits”
People like sinha should return to Mudder India to help his country solve all these SEVERE PROOBLEMS instead of coming to Singapore to meddle in our domestic Affairs.
If PAP thinks FT is sooooo good for Singapore , why don’t they replace all the ministers with FTs ?? This will save tax payers billions of salary dollars a year, good for Singapore right ??
But do they do so ?? No ! So you see they give you the short end of the stick and give lame excuse that FTs are good for Singapore !!
Vote PAP out in the next election !!! They only treat us citizens like slaves and care only about enriching themselves !!!
“When a foreigner get a managerial position in a company, he will start hiring his own relatives or friends from his own country and NO SINGAPOREANS” … This is really true. If our HR is also foreigners, we will be detached from our soil soon and maybe will be working as maids for them liao. They bring in their friends, colleagues etc, throw our resume aways in rubbish bins, keep all the impt info on our tasks. Didnt let us access the impt server, how to get things done? It’s sucidal approach of PAP to let in so many foreigners/PR and took our jobs away. Then came PAP says we not productive? It’s bullshit and unkind comments and not worth our listening. We should cast our votes wisely this coming election.
The Papaya gang has betrayed the trust of Singaporean citizens who has been supporting our country with our unquestionable support including serving NS etc.
Who are these new citizens or worse still PRs to dare question and teach us what to do. Remember you have just betrayed your original country so please dont even start preaching.
The Papaya gang is so out of touch to allow these new citizens to come in without doing their duties to the nation at the expense of upsetting the very people who put you in power.
He never serve NS & talk big here.
Lets rally together & drive this foreigner out of Singapore.
@Incredulous
If you say that the minorities are being marginized, how so?You are right when we dont understand the plight they faced. Maybe its because we dont know? Before this site or other blog sites was created, there was no place to air racial grievances. U can’t accuse the majority of turning the blind eye.
“Local Singaporeans have been ‘okay’ and tend to turn a blind eye, as long as it favours them”
I think it the same for all human beings. It is really up to the person to voice out and let others know.
If I am the boss, there is no reason why I will want to employ a “mandarin speaking” employee unless of course I need that employee to work with China. Which unfortunately only speaks Mandarin. The reason you dont have a “Tamil or malay speaking” employee because those countries speak Eng.
And we cant really accuse the bosses of being “mandarin speaking” preferred because we are seeing alot of Indians and Filipinos FTs.
We are not talking about race here. Please dont get swayed away….
@CashCow01 – There are so many disagreement from people in what you said. Yet you want to stay as cool as a cucumber though your argument is full of flaw.
(quote from CashCow01)….. But like I mentioned before in an earlier post, THE GOVERNMENT SHOULD REGULATE BUSINESSES, NOT BUSINESSES THEMSELVES. The citizens have no right to order businesses to hire more Singaporeans because the option to hire more foreigners is on the table.(unquote)
What you are practically saying is that business does not have social responsibilities and they can do anything in name of making money.
If a person hire a killer to kill someone, the hired hand does not need to be blame because it is his occupation to kill someone. Is that what you are saying?
All business has social responsibilities and must ensure that people of their host country is treated fairly. This is part of corporate governance. Singaporeans are definitely not lazy and unqualified to be considered unmarketable, they have a high cost starting point to begin with. Housing, education and all host of living expenses far exceed those of our foreign competitors. Would you send your children to India to study in their universities and come back to Singapore to get a job? Since this Indian says we are not so marketable like him, it means his university degree is better than our degree.
If you continue this discourse belittling our fellow citizens who are sore coming here to let out steam, we will make sure you become the next victim. Don’t think we are angry for nothing, we are truly hurt right within.
It is better that business start getting prudent and start employing Singaporean first over foreigners or else they will see the repercussion of not doing so. The first sign of discontentment has surfaced and if they are not emphatic about the situation, sad to say that when the backlash is unleashed against them, their everything will be in jeopardy.
Do we need to return part of our salary to our employer to make our job tenure endurable and ourself marketable since foreign workers are already willing to do so?
The way you speak is filled with the arrogance of the PAP and like MM Lee calling us not hard driving and hard striving. You are also insinuating that native Singaporeans are falling behind because “the spurs are not stuck into the hide,” that is their problem.
The children of today is already studying so hard and hardly have time to play, and here you agree with this PR that we are not marketable and still need to work harder. If you don’t have a good word or consolation for your fellow citizens may I ask of you to please shut up.
The harsh reality is that these same FTs who are having a ‘good time’ here are not so kind towards their own government as they are when they sing the governemnt’s praises.
Simple logic,hypocrisy is the true reason!
Don’t tell singaporeans or citizens of other countries how good their governments are when you spat at your own governments back home!
The reason why a lot of these people are more “marketable” is also because they speak what is “politically correct” and not neccesary the TRUTH…get it?
cashcow01 preaches Sporeans not to wallow in self-pity annot get emotional?
get off the moral high horse and pretence. if citizenship is so worthless that we allow foreigners to come in and offer a lower pay to displace Sporeans – how not to get emotional and still chastise us for wallowing in self-pity?
are you another get-off-your-elite face kind of attitude?
Qoute:
Good meh ? on Mon, 1st Mar 2010 1:40 pm
If PAP thinks FT is sooooo good for Singapore , why don’t they replace all the ministers with FTs ?? This will save tax payers billions of salary dollars a year, good for Singapore right ??
I can’t believe how some of us have this stupid and selfish mindset of replacing PAP with Foreigners. On the ground, as mentioned by our bros and sis here, once a Foreigner gets a managerial position, he will bring in people from his country to fill in the positions. What if a Foreigner were to be PM and all those high profile ministers? Do you think their policies will be implemented in favour of us Singaporeans or Foreigners? Iam sure our own SINGAPOREAN opposition members can do a much better job at a cheaper rate than the incumbent without asking foreigners to RULE OUR COUNTRY!
Time for change.
Use your votes wisely or continue to take crap from these foreign trash.
u BOOTLICKER…GET LOST AND RETURN TO YOUR YARD!!!!
GCT, we will not protect this city which we as citizens are being replaced of your damn FT – Policies Anger People.
Remember your manifesto during your premier as PM – 1991 Swiss standard of living – Talking Craps n full 0f BS.
GO BACK TO INDIA!
WE HAVE ENOUGH SYCOPHANTS IN THE FORM OF NEW CITIZENS AND FOREIGNERS JUST LIKE YOU!
Oh, guys just to let you all know that 6 months ago, I went for an interview. The interviewer is an Indian. He asked me a few questions and I answered exactly what it fits the job. He nodded everything I said till the last question he posed – “do you need to be recalled for reservist”. I answered “yes” with a tongue-in-cheek that the country still needs me.
And guess what? He shaked his bloody head and said, “we cannot hire someone who still need to go for reservist because it will jeopardize our work routine, create incovenience to our colleagues, downtime and extra cost to get someone to cover your area”. Hence, 2 weeks later, I truly, didn’t hear from him. I was fuming mad and my friend suggested me to call WDA. I called WDA and MOM and complained to them about the name of the company and the interviewer. They never get back to me.
Why? Why? Why? Is this what I deserved being a Singaporean?
FTs will never understand the plight Singaporean are facing today unless they become SINGAPOREAN. Then they will be screaming for fairness.
Coys do not look for skill set just plenty cheap labour which our LOVING govt allow it to happen.
WANT CHANGE VOTE WISELY THIS ROUND.