Buddhist monk expressed skepticism over the usefulness of inter-faith dialogue to prevent another Rony Tan fiasco
February 16th, 2010 | 
Author: Written by Our Correspondent
A Buddhist monk Venerable Dhammika has expressed his doubts about the effectiveness of inter-faith dialogue to prevent another Rony Tan fiasco from arising.
An Australian by birth, Venerable Dhammika have been a Buddhist monk for 32 years and am the spiritual advisor to the Buddha Dhamma Mandala Society in Singapore.
Lighthouse Evangelism Pastor Rony Tan was hauled up for questioning by the Internal Security Department (ISD) last Monday for making disparaging remarks about Buddhism and Taoism during a church session which was video-taped and uploaded to Youtube.
He has since apologized to the leaders of the Buddhist and Taoist faiths and the government has refrained from taking further action against him out of fear of sending “shockwaves” to the Christian community.
The Straits Times carried a report yesterday quoting several religious leaders as saying that inter-faith dialogue may be the way to prevent such unpleasant episodes from recurring in the future.
Venerable Dhammika, however, was unimpressed with the inter-faith dialogues as conducted in Singapore. Writing on his personal blog “Dhamma Musings”, he shared his experience at such sessions:
“I doubt that inter-religious dialogue, at least as it is conducted in Singapore, really brings about a change in how the different religions feel about each other. I have often attended inter-religious gatherings and I have noticed that everyone is friendly, accommodating and open-minded. The participants are already respectful of other faiths. The ones who could do with a bit of tolerance – the bigots, zealots, fundamentalists and the evangelicals, won’t come. Here in Singapore several major denominations have pointedly refused to join the Inter-religious Organization which they see as fratranizing with Satan.”
The Singapore government frequently organized such inter-faith dialogues to promote interaction between leaders of various religious faiths in Singapore.
As they are not compulsory, the participants are usually those who are tolerant and respectful of other faiths, as pointed out by Venerable Dhammika and as such is “all too often just an exercise in the converted preaching to each other.”
Venerable Dhammika proposed the government rewards tolerant leaders to marginalize those who are intolerant:
“The government should consider something like the Public Service Award, the PBM or the BBM, but to be given for service to interfaith understanding. When such people are looked upon as commendable, socially responsible and worthy, the bigots gradually come to be seen as out-of-step, as a public nuisance, as un-respectable. You can marginalize the intolerant by rewarding and lauding the tolerant.”
While the state media has been quick to sweep the saga under the carpet, religious fault-lines still lurk beneath the veneer of normalcy in Singapore, waiting to be exposed once more.
Pastor Rony Tan’s running down of other religions would not have come to light had he not video-taped his preaching and uploaded it to Youtube where it was subsequently circulated in cyberspace.
With the combustible situation exacerbated by the relentless influx of foreigners in Singapore, the social tension in Singapore society is set to grow in the years ahead.
Read rest of Venerable Dhammika’s post here
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70 Responses to “Buddhist monk expressed skepticism over the usefulness of inter-faith dialogue to prevent another Rony Tan fiasco”
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Finally a leader that speaks the TRUTH, Interfaith in Singapore is only for the converted not the renegades and troublemakers like RT and his mates who will no way get involved in Interfaith activities.
What this article serves to do is to create more hatred btween the religions. I think TR should stop publishing further materials on religion. It’s a minefield. Why don’t TR just stick to politics ?
@get your facts right:
Please get your own facts right. You have to have ZERO comprehension skills to interpret this article as an attempt to destroy harmony between the religious groups.
The point of the article here is that most inter-religious efforts are just preaching to the converted because most religious fundamentalists do not want to come to the table.
EVERYTHING IS POLITICS.
Venerable Dhammika proposed the government rewards tolerant leaders to marginalize those who are intolerant:
“The government should consider something like the Public Service Award, the PBM or the BBM, but to be given for service to interfaith understanding. When such people are looked upon as commendable, socially responsible and worthy, the bigots gradually come to be seen as out-of-step, as a public nuisance, as un-respectable. You can marginalize the intolerant by rewarding and lauding the tolerant.”
———————————————-
FINALLY I HAVE ONE BUDDHIST MONK WHO THINKS LIKE ME
Sad that no Taoist or Buddhist supports my suggestion that the government should given an award to the wise and gracious Buddhist monk, the Venerable Kwang Sheng for his great contributions to religious harmony in Singapore.
Not to worry, Venerable Dhammika, if the Christians can be true to their scriptures, this is better than joining the IRO: “Do nothing from selfishness or conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Let no one look only to his own interests, but also to the interests of others.” exhorts our Apostle Paul. Philippians 2:3-4.
“Finally brethren,….whatever is true, pure, honourable, just, lovely and gracious [that you see in Buddhists, Muslims, Taoists, Hindus, atheists, etc]; if there is any excellence or anything worthy of praise [such as in the garbage collecotrs], think about them…..and the God of peace will be with all of you.” Philippians 4:8.
Well, this is what I have shared with Pastor Rony Tan for what God has wanted him to lead his flock and all Singaporeans—-to walk with him the path of humility and altruism. This is what Sinapore needs, and this is also the condition that God will look for to multiply even more miracles in Lighthouse Evangelism Church, to show how He will bless His people and all Singaporeans.
May God be greatly praised!
MARK MY WORDS!
Pastor Rony Tan is a humble, caring, honourable, patriotic and trutworthy man. He wants church members to be loyal to our government. He reminded his church members to see the goernment as including the Opposition leaders like Mr Low Thia Khiang and Mr Chiam See Tong.
That is why the authorities and MHA Wong Kan Seng have no heart to put him on a criminal charge. So mark my words—greater things are going to happen in Lighthouse Evangelism, a church which I am happy and proud to go to for my worship service. I would recommend those who are looking for a good church. They can check out Lighthouse Evangelism first.
You can be sure that if you are there, the government will know that you are good and patriotic citizens.
Some people practise religion like they do politics, some practise like they do religion. Beliefs, Blind Faiths and refusing to see beyond one’s nose applies to both.
Compassion (or lack-of in the case of the PAP) for your fellow man, the weak and the poor shows the core of one’s belief.
Bigots/zealots/fundamentalists do not show compassion, they only ridicule, denigrate and ostracize those who have different beliefs from themselves. Much like Rony Tan. Luckily he is found out early.
Correction: “trustworthy man”, not “trutworthy man”; “government”, not “goernment”
Unfortunately humans are humans. They want and feel good if the religion or whatever they are doing to be “superior” to others. Unfortunately too these are in the majority, truly open minded and gracious people are in very short supply. Thats why we have so much troubles in this world.
If anybody thinks RT and his type will change their thinking, then they are Dreaming.
@ # Oh Tham Eng
Don’t anyhow interpret the bible and add words to the book. You are distorting the facts.
There are many Buddhist who attack Christianity openly or in the background. Those are not surfaced because it is not made political. The strong reaction this time speaks of its nature.
Religions are different and will bring conflict. Harmony means you compromise on your belief. This is a fact, like it or not.
The so called religious harmony does not really exists. People in Singapore do not confront one another because they are all busy making money. They will even be living together happily because they want to maintain a stable income and home.
True religious harmony means people understands there are conflicts in religious and they learn to avoid confrontation, whether verbal or physical.
Rony Tan has opened a Pandora box.
to mr oh thiam eng,
my foot! over my dead body will i ever recommend anyone to go to ur lighthouse and listen to this no ball so called’pastor’.
he dare to say on the stage yet got no ball to say when he faced isd!!!
mark my words! he will be dumbfolded and put to shame when he face his Maker on the Judgement Day!!
get your facts right @ 16th Feb 5:52 pm
How can this article create more hatred between the religion when it educate us to a true problem in “inter-faith dialogue”?
Instead, hatred between religion breeds when one spread falsehood and denigrate other religions in one extreme, and sweep problems under the carpet in another extreme.
The name Rony already sounds so eww! Like some looney. Rony looney puny!
If he really think he’ll go to heaven and not non-Christians, then let him wish for death for himself if he is indeed truthful!
If he’s so good, then why does God not help him in this? Did He suddenly abandoned him? Shouldn’t God be helping him for his “brave” and “honourable” actions in fighting against “Satan”?
I think “get your facts right” has made a valid point although it is being refuted by Sam23 and Atheist above.
Why?
Read what the monk said:
the bigots, zealots, fundamentalists and the evangelicals, won’t come.
Actually the monk did say the right honest thing. The pro-harmony ones will attend. the radicals – they won’t. It’s like saying, the healthy people will see the doctor for annual checkup. The really sick people just don’t want to – they see nothing wrong with themselves!!
and who are these really, sick, people? – the evangelicals, the fundamentalists. We all know which religion group they are mostly from. THAT IS WHY I AGREE with “get your facts right”. TR should stick to politics discussions and social issues. If Straits Times want to publish what the monk said, let it do so, TR should not have anything to do with this.
I support the proposal that TR should steer clear of religion. As all the common religions are legal in singapore, we should live and let live and stop stirring up discord. We just don’t want to know, live and let live.
zero
For God’s nane and sake,
ask ur tat rony to quickly step down from his poition.
he is already not fit or qualify anymore to be in tat position anymore!!!
Once u declared it, take up ur own foolish mistakes and eat the conseqences of ur own mistakes for wat u are accountable to!!! Be like man! answeable and accountable to ur own actions!!!
Wat a fool he is . INDEED HE IS!! What a shame that he has tainted to his own belief!!!
To put the point across in more simple terms, let’s say in a school, the headmaster deals with a class of 10 schoolchildren, teaching them how to live harmoniously with each other and want each of them to promise to treat each other equally and fairly.
If among the 10 of them, nine of them readily agreed as the headmaster had requested, and only one stubbornly refuses to make a commitment to do as the headmaster had requested, but give his own childish and illogical reasons for refusing to co-operate, then that one is obviously the delinquent one who will be the ‘fly in the ointment’ which contaminates the whole jar of ointment, so to speak.
Such is the reality of the situation.
That good Ven. Dhammika explained somethings, also hope Ven. Dhammika advise to Wee(Ex-monk) too because his mind in poor, in monk 23 years but nothings(empty) in his mind, may be he front of devotees are very kind or precepts monk, back of devotees may be play magic, it is very cunning man.
Religions are freedom for humans world and only people can understand, believe of religions but you give religions to animals, they also don’t want. Please don’t comment of religions.
i don’t think its a wise idea to give national medals.
1. religious leaders are not supposed to crave for fame like national medals. (at least, in theory)
2. if “the bigots, zealots, fundamentalists and the evangelicals” feel ostracised, they will become even more extreme. it is better to reach out to them than sideline them.
Am I the only one (Did the devil put in my mind?) or do others here see the same thing.
I note there is a particular ostentatious poster appearing all over the place in TR desperately attempting to deluge readers with charactor glorification . However from the response I am reading, it is not working as well here in TR as it would in the “controlled” environment when similar charactor glorification are done.
It is not suprising that “the bigots, zealots, fundamentalists and the evangelicals, won’t come.”
Again for lack of better example, a cheating time share company bent on fleecing all their hapless potential victims (oops I mean customers) to their last dollar, will not join as a member of CASE.
A positive way to look at this is that by virtue of not joining the inter-faith dialogue, the watchdog agency (whoever they may be) would already sieved out the problem childs.
@Get your facts right-How do you propose to solve this method of hate??
This article highlights the fact which alot of Singaporeans might not know. That the inter-religious dialogues are only attended by those who are tolerant of other religion. The bigots opt out and continue to berate other faiths within their congregation, family, friends and workplace.
If the media does not highlight this and pretend that everything is aye okay(like they always do in the papers and tv), then we will never solve the problem.
Btw, this issue has touched many a nerve of Singaporeans, made a mockery of our pledge, our laws and finally bringing to light the sheer nonsense of The ISD/Gestapo(the people who brought you the dramedy, Escape: The saga of Mas Selamat).
Therefore it has become political. We must not sweep this issue under the carpet.
TR which has assumed the responsibility of providing alternative news should step up and report everything that the Straits Times doesn’t. Thus well-informed people can take measures to pressure the government into acting.
Spirituality is not about debates, name-calling, insisting who/what is right.
It is not about war, being nice or getting some award that recognise the effort.
Many societies use it to maintain social order, some use it to advance their cause.
However if anyone truly believe in the Divine, he/she will seek and hopefully find the Truth.
Lets not be a Judge for none of us is truly in that spiritual condition to judge another person – be he a pastor, a venerable or a priest.
1. TR is merely reporting an article and did not create this article. Please do not shoot the messenger.
2. If TR does not report this – some other on line forum will anyway, and so why not TR? – it is because TR is usually 1st to air – that its readership is up.
3. Politics is probably a bigger minefield than Religion!
I personally think that with the 3 teenagers and Rony Tan issue so far – we have achieved a few things….
a. Eradicate double standards – teenagers were let off (as is Rony Tan), but barely….simply if no Rony Tan issue, the 3 boys would already be in lockup of some kind with criminal records.
b. Role of Netizens are clear – NETIZENS DOES INFLUENCE THE POLICIES of the PAP establishment – please read this positively.
Truely, you speak truly. Bigotry isn’t confined solely to Christians. The Al-Qaeda are nothing more than religious bigots taken to an extreme. And they aren’t the only religious bigots around either. I’ve had bigots from other (non-Christian) religions try to convert me, and get angry when I stay true to my atheistic, science-based beliefs.
I’m sure the predominantly Hindu Sri Lankan Tamils will have a thing or two to say about the so-called tolerance and understanding exhibited towards them by the majority Sinhalese, who belong to a different religion. I shall not name the religion, except to say that I have run afoul of a few of their members here in TR simply because I spoke honestly and they didn’t like to hear what I said, even though it is aimed at only one member of their community, albeit a supposedly respectable member of it. So much for showing tolerance for the opinions & beliefs of others that they always brag about.
Just check out some of kopitiamapek’s ravings here if you want to know what I mean.
Why steer clear left or right? In the United States, one has freedom of speech. And this is the Internet, invented by the Americans. Who is to say steer here or there? PAP’s OB markers? HAHAHA. If you have studied in a proper university outside Singapore, you will fucking laugh at these OB markers in Singapore.
Atheist
You have misunderstood my point. The POINT is why does TR want to tread on religion as its focus – TR should concentrate on other matters of a more secular nature such as politics, which was its original focus. It is going tangent to its purpose.
That’s the issue. I am an atheist like you with no slant for any religion. But it being one of the most sensitive issues, why does TR want to go into this area? Does it want to fan some flames ? Just leave religion to the religious leaders to sort them out.
zero
Thanks for your learned observation which the others do not see. Religion is a minefield, because sentiments can ride high. Wars have been fought in its name (the three Crusades, the jihads).
TR should not go off course from its original focus, which was to provide an alternative platform for news and views of a political nature involving our little red dot and how it is being run.
Thumbs-up! Pastor Rony who acts FAST and PROFESSIONALLY by a QUICK removing the video clips from the church website and replaced with an apology message, and SOON personal apology in person to meet the two religion leaders. It shows that the grace of the Lord is providing a highly wisdom to Pastor Rony that strengthens our faith and believing by his PROMPT actions in mending his mistake done. This is a very good example when we as a man makes mistake what is the right thing we should do next. Quick! No waiting in restoring it. Pastor Rony, you have done it, you have shown it to us. Well done!
agree with zero.
Delusion exists in almost everyone of us. It is only a matter of degree
…
protest, are you a true budhist or toaist that you were so hurt by RT’s remark or are you someone who just wants to comment on everyting.
i am sure budhist and toaist taught its believers to be kind and forgiving,
for you, it seems that you just want to press on untill the victim is distroyed.
RT admitted his mistakes and is remoreful, thats it
Do you want everyone who commit and offense to be sentence to death?
be more forgiving and forget
to protest…many of our ministers made mistakes and admitted it. i am sure you know who. why don’t you insist that they step down?? anyway, its not up to you to call who should step down. if anyone of these should step down, it will be by peoples power.
Singapore must maintain a racial, religious, gender and cultural harmonious sociey. No doubt about it. I had a bad experience to share about 10 years ago – intewviewed for a job at one reputable monastery. When one interview (a trustee) saw my religion, asked me to leave the room immediately. The rest of interviewer and I was shocked. I left but feel sad. Fortunately, all of us gotta go one day. Wawaha!
If you look at the activities of the council to creat interfaith religious harmonious practice and relationship,one religious sect has always chosen itself to stay away is those of rony tan’s. This speak volume of his sincerity ! ?He is merely trying to save his own skin!
Giving award to those worthy religious leaders ? What if the govt tommorrow give an award to rony tan ? and is all likely you know why!
Based on today’s ST report of comments by an ex-member of the church, Rony Tan has been preaching his ‘hardline’ for about a decade. If all it takes is a tea session with ISD for him to do a 180-degree turn, it is obvious that his link with The Above is not all that strong. Ultimately, it is just a family business taking care to ensure that the flock remains the cash cow.
@Oh Tham Eng
This pastor Rony Tan should and shall burn in hell… Christianity should teach and learn about religious tolerance rather than going around to say “This theory about reincarnation is rubbish”. It is as good as saying that the bible is just a dusty old dictionary… And FOR ALL YOU PREACHERS out there saying that you will go to hell for not believing in GOD… there are many other people doing worst things than me out there and you are saying that i will go to hell for just not believing in “GOD”?? For “GOD’s” SAKE GET A LIFE LOSER! LEARN TO THINK BEFORE YOU PREACH.
Furthermore, what you cannot prove you shouldn’t say its not true.. Its like in a court room when the person is not involved in a crime, the judge says he is not guilty instead of innocent.
@Steven,
the only PAP minister past and present who have admitted and apologise for his mistake is Wong Kan Seng (Mas Selamat issue). Some have admitted to mistakes but NONE apologised.
Also they should step down base on their own shame instead of waiting for people’s power or being voted out since they are paid so highly to be ‘elites of the elite’, high EQ, high IQ, men with unquestionable integrity etc etc etc.
@Oh Tham Eng
Since when was the bible supposed to be read verse by verse and remembered verse by verse? By just using 1 short verse you can distort the WHOLE TRUTH of the bible. I suggest to you, to not pick and choose the verse of the bible for your convenience so that you may distort its real meaning just to proof your point. The whole context is VERY important, if one was to just choose verses, i can pick up many single line verses which are very very disturbing. The essence is in the context as follows;
Deuteronomy 4:2
Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the LORD your God which I command you.
Proverbs 30:5-6
5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him. 6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
Revelation 22:18-19
For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book: And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
” …. the bigots, zealots, fundamentalists and the evangelicals, won’t come. Here in Singapore several major denominations have pointedly refused to join the Inter-religious Organization which they see as fratranizing with Satan”.
Visit IRO at http://www.iro.org.sg/website/home.html, and read the Declaration and Objectives. Those who won’t join the IRO obviously do not subscribed to religious harmony but to religious hegemony.
Who created Satan?? He must be one hell of a frightening Frankenstein to the bigots, zealots, fundamentalists and the evangelicals.
” …. the bigots, zealots, fundamentalists and the evangelicals, won’t come. Here in Singapore several major denominations have pointedly refused to join the Inter-religious Organization which they see as fratranizing with Satan”.
Visit IRO at http://www.iro.org.sg/website/home.html, and read the Declaration and Objectives. Those who won’t join the IRO obviously do not subscribe to religious harmony but to religious hegemony.
Who created Satan?? He must be one hell of a frightening Frankenstein to the bigots, zealots, fundamentalists and the evangelicals.
To Steven,
As for Rony, I never harbour that intention or with any ill feelings out to see him being destroy even though i called for his stepping down.
Reasons: Becos he is a leader that have influence whatever he says or act!!! Any words or action he says will have some influence. Even though he may have apologise and regret what he have said, but in my opinion i really do not see that he has done anything wrong. I believe deep down inside his heart , he has never harbour any mocking spirit to mock or criticise buddhism or taoism. He just want to glorify his God ,Jesus!!!
If his comments will be in another country example in USA , Australia, it is considered a great testimony cos it is just a testimony that a person he or she has found their joy in another belief, that’s all, no need to complicated!!
But the fact is that too bad he is in singapore, a country that has not yet reached full democracy yet… But yet i believe out of fear, he succummb to the surrounding pressure which i feel that he has let his own belief down!!!
I have seen and heard so many great testimony that has been shared and spoken out to glorify Jesus, and some of the testimony may be those similar like what RT is having, yet they rejoice. I believe those preachers rejoice also , that’s what they are being called into it..
But neverthless, God is the one who can see the heart. And i tink RT is aware. I really see nothing wrong with the whole incident in the first place as it is being said in the church setting , and not in the public place at all.
Ending : Like i said , i am not here to sow any discord in religious harmony. I truly believe everyone should learn and in fact should respect each and every one religion and their own belief and do not try to cross their line over and go and critise their own belief if the individual choose whichever path they wnat to go… God never force.. HE is a gentleman. He lets every human being a freewill to choose. So conclusion, it will be better for RT to step down rather to continue, becos u can never guarantee such event will come back again. It’s too risky to go for it. Just my concern for him, that’s all. Never had that thought that seeing him being destroyed .
To Steven,
I dun even know whether are u a truly native born singaporean or not, but i definetly is. U says that i never ask any minister to step down, then i tell u i did and in fact many of them should step down. How many minister dun even have the shame at all when they take multi-millions dollars and totally oblivious of their own ppl suffering even as i type …. Many singaporeans right now is suffering, and if i am one of the minister, i would have voluntarily stepped down cos i have disappoint and let down my ppl and make them suffer so terribly… Do u know how many ppl cannot tahan the pappies now? Can u honestly asked your own conscience , can u tahan?
Yes, everyone make mistake, but tell me how many ministar truly admit it and take up the responsibilty to be answerable for their own folly mistakes.. Please asked yourself before u point your fingers to others…
Well, u cannot keep on making mistakes to that extent that folly mistakes can cause so many grievances and bitterness and cause hardships for your own ppl, that is uncalled for it!! And it should not be!!!! And if a person keep on repeating the mistakes over and over again, even if they apologise , but do not take seriously and make a U-TURN change, it is as if the apology is just lip service… And mistakes keep on repeat and repeat, it will shows the incompetency of that individual ministars, and do u still think they still deserve that million dollars salary which i tink they can used this monies to help their own ppl….And also, if mistakes keep on repeats , and even if being sorry and apologise, it makes no sense at all becos eventually the person hearts will become hardened and try to justify for their own wrong folly mistakes and still keep on getting this obscene pay structure.
Unlike our late beloved President, Mr Ong Teng Cheong, who is a man of morale, integrity, and sincere. Which i truly believe it from my heart , if he ever make mistakes in his life, he will definelty immediately admit and apologise and make sure he rectify and not justify for his mistakes.. Do u know when he announce to step down as a President, he says the only thing he feel very regret is that he could not try to protect the reserves for his Own ppl. Mind u, for his own ppl!!!! And do u tink he deserves to step down when he did nothing wrong and still trying to fight for us !!! Pls compare him with the rest of the current ministars behavious and actions!!! Speak the truth and the truth will set u free!!!!
The Rise Of Buddhism In New Zealand
Voxy News Engine, 18 January, 2010
Auckland, New Zealand — What happens when two religions and two world views collide?
That was the question Victoria University graduate Hugh Kemp sought to answer via research that focused on how and why New Zealanders convert to Buddhism.
“Buddhism is gaining traction in New Zealand, so my interest was in what makes a New Zealander become a Buddhist and the variety of pathways they take as they journey towards, and embrace, Buddhism,” says Mr Kemp.
As part of his PhD research, he also focused on the identity that convert Buddhists construct for themselves as New Zealanders.
Mr Kemp interviewed around 70 new Buddhists from all over New Zealand and attended 27 Buddhist events and gatherings. His interviews explored four factors of inter-relationships: practice and ritual, selfhood, belief and involvement.
“It was essentially a qualitative sociology project that tracked why New Zealanders take up the practice of Buddhism and how they continue to find meaning, chiefly in regular practice, ritual and involvement.”
Although Mr Kemp says he was surprised that numbers of New Zealand converts hadn’t increased as much as he’d expected, or as much as overseas trends indicated, Buddhism remained a popular religion here.
“It’s down to a number of factors – the increasing profile of the Dalai Lama, New Zealand’s closer ties with Asia and the fact that we’re quite open to new religions and have a history in New Zealand of people experimenting with new religions.”
Mr Kemp, who also has a Masters of Theology degree, says interviewees’ stories were placed in a social-historical narrative of Arcadia.
“If New Zealand is Arcadia – clean, green, 100% pure and the ideal place to live – then it can be conceived of as a Buddhist Pure Land. Arcadia and the Pure Land come together in notions of ‘home’, offering a new imaginative order for Buddhist practitioners.” Overall, he says his research indicates that new converts overwhelmingly believe New Zealand is a good place to practice Buddhism.
“Buddhists in New Zealand say they will continue to create their own identity and find a turangawaewae or place of identity in which to stand.”
One of Mr Kemp’s supervisors Professor Paul Morris says, “Dr Kemp’s pioneering work, which is the first systematic study of New Zealanders who become Buddhist, tells us both about religion and spirituality in our country and the specific manifestations of Buddhism here.” Mr Kemp graduates with a PhD in Religious Studies and is hoping to teach Religious or Asian Studies. His supervisors were Dr Rick Weiss and Professor Paul Morris.
To poster @Tue, 16th Feb 2010 9:05 pm
You said “then we will never solve the problem. ”
Dear Sir. The problem of religion debate has never been solved since the time when Isaac And Jacob parted ways as recorded in Genesis the first book of the scriptures.
Don’t even think that by highlighting issues you are doing a favour to everybody to solve a problem and you will build instant harmony with everybody. Religion is not a science.
Therefore rational methods like you suggest do not always work. It is best to live and let live and change the focus to something else, as proposed by “get your facts right”.
I and quite a few others, have been shouting my throat dry to request TR to stop this thread but to no avail. As i understand it TR is only interested to boost reader numbers. I had earlier recommended to them to put female breasts along with articles, these jpg’s serve the same purpose but less venomous than religious debate.
zero
Oh Tham Eng on Tue, 16th Feb 2010 6:14 pm & Oh Tham Eng on Tue, 16th Feb 2010 6:29 pm
Dear Mr. Oh
You make all kinds of claims –
a. “FINALLY I HAVE ONE BUDDHIST MONK WHO THINKS LIKE ME”.
b. “Well, this is what I have shared with Pastor Rony Tan for what God has wanted him to lead his flock and all Singaporeans….”
c. “He reminded his church members to see the government as including the Opposition leaders like Mr Low Thia Khiang and Mr Chiam See Tong.”
d. “That is why the authorities and MHA Wong Kan Seng have no heart to put him on a criminal charge.”
e. “You can be sure that if you are there, the government will know that you are good and patriotic citizens.”
I do not know why Netizens on TR should want to read or debate with you. You go out of context and into lunacy. You are now also mixing religion with politics bringing in Mr. Chiam See Tong and Mr. Low Thia Khiang.
Finally, Mr.Oh, isn’t the following describing evangelism?
• Zealous preaching and advocacy of the gospel;
• Evangelism refers to the practice of relaying information about a particular set of beliefs to others who do not hold those beliefs. The term is often used in reference to Christianity, where the scriptures often describe “evangelism” as “spreading the Gospel”; and
• Evangelize – convert to Christianity.
If these descriptions are correct, then Lighthouse Evangelism has to change its mission to one that preaches religious tolerance. Otherwise, you and Rony Tan don’t know what you are talking about and preaching in the first place.
@COMMY SG!
Your message seem to reflect yourself as a very frustrated loser and evil heart as you wish everyone go to hell. Reckon you need to go to church more to seek God (any church not necessary Lighthouse ) as all churches are house of God.
Poor fellow! Please go to heaven lah
To: Mr OH,
I have posted this in another TR’s articles
“Lighthouse Evangelism Pastor Rony Tan expressed regrets for his error and vowed to promote religious harmony in Singapore”
So here i say again exactly as what i have siad in the post:
“KennaSai on Wed, 17th Feb 2010 3:22 am
Oh Tham Eng on Tue, 16th Feb 2010 7:37 pm
Oh Tham Eng on Tue, 16th Feb 2010 7:54 pm
First of all, i agree with “KennaSai” on point “b”, those 3 kids was on bail awaiting AG to pass down “judgement”. If it weren’t for Pastor R&T’s case & the great “riot” by netizen, i think the outcome of the 3 kids would have ben more serious..
Secondly, Thank you Mr Oh for your effort in appealing for most of the case you have mention. But i just like to Qoute this.
“PLEASE STOP SHITTING HERE, “KENNASIAI”
What can we expect from shitters like you, when you call yourself “kennasai” (meaning, like shit in Hokkien). You and all netizens in TR know that I had written my successful appeal to the authorities to forgive the 3 boys. Principal State Counsel Mr Bala Reddy, the head of State Procsecution Divison was the person I had appealed in order to convince the Police to show compassion too. ”
Did chirstian or Jesus teach you to insult others?
“That is why the authorities and MHA Wong Kan Seng have no heart to put him on a criminal charge. So mark my words—greater things are going to happen in Lighthouse Evangelism, a church which I am happy and proud to go to for my worship service. I would recommend those who are looking for a good church. They can check out Lighthouse Evangelism first.
You can be sure that if you are there, the government will know that you are good and patriotic citizens.”
1. So your saying that because of the patirotic act by Pastor R&T, the authorities & DPM will not charge him?
2. Your also saying that only by joining your church, the goverment will recongize you as a gd & patriot citizen… but not other religions or other church?
I would say, Jesus did not teach his disciple to insult others nor did he teach his disciple to be proud like a peacock.
I have mention in other posting that all religion too teaches human to do goods.
So Mr Oh, stop preaching your chirstianity here.. your making it look worst than ever, cos your showing us how the follower of Pastor R&T acts…”
Netizens here.. pls take serious consideration while reading on Mr OH comments.. i have the feeling that hes teyong to be a trouble maker here…
If a religious group is already so deviant to deem dialog with other religious groups as meeting with THE SATAN, I don’t think giving out awards or recognition to the tolerant ones will make them change.
All of us no matter what background we come from, should have the sensibility to judge what’s appropriate to say to others. If only the christians are not brain washed and stood up against what RT has said immediately then, this wouldn’t have blown up with the ISD knocking on the church’s door.
Afterall, RT is just a messenger.. he is not infallible. All christians should condemn what he has said to show that they are still in control of knowing what’s offensive or not to others. I can guarantee if followers of all religions can do that, there will be peace and harmony.
To ALL
Mr Oh has been on my radar previously already. He can quote from the bible all he wants. Afterall even the devil can quote scriptures. He seem makes a very good example of what a cult follower does. He follows RT blindly and obviously have been brainwashed to not be able to tell how offending RT was to other religions.
Even RT has asked his followers not to bicker in blogs and forum to argue for him but Mr Oh has obviously decidedly not to do so. I think Mr Oh worhips RT instead.
ya man,
i already see through dis mr oh when i read his comment.
He a bit siok siok teh.
talk nonsense and very lunatic.
@steven,
hv u seen my reply to u calling ministers to step down?
it will definitely put u to reflection of wat u say!!!
i hold no apology of what i say!!!
The purpose of having laws is to enforce order for the good of society. But then, each case should be judged on its own merit. Where necessary an offender’s background and past record has to be taken into consideration. An inadvertent mistake should be dealt with in a more lenient manner.
Let’ now take a look at RT’s background. According to information made available in cyberspace, including the testimony of an ex-member of his flock, RT has often “played” politics. He even took a stand and sided with the US invasion of Iraq. He even had something to say on the Arab Istreali conflict – siding with Israel off course.
But TR also knows how to curry favour the powers that be in Singapore. He even came up with a video clip, apple polishing certain high level ppl.
All the above, if true, clearly shows that TR is guilty of more than one offence. By mixing religion with politics he has contravened the Religious Harmony Act. And by mocking Buddhism and Taoism he has committed an offence under the Sedition Act.
And for these grave offences he was not even suspended from his posts or put on probation? Why???? Because he knows how to ‘play’ politics and be on the right side of the fence.
Can drug traffickers, who also endanger society, just say sorry and be let off? Many who were caught with just a few grams of drugs have been sent to the gallows. Some were very young indeed, who may have inadvertently fall prey to drug lords.
Singapore is known to be very effective in implementing its laws. But over and over again it has also shown that it is very selective in its implementation of its laws. This is PAP justice.
In God I trust. All mortals are sinners. Many are hypocrites as well. This is what sickens Singaporeans to the core.
Pastor Rony Tan is to be charged & jail for causing disharmony in the country.
Pastor Rony Tan as a educated, influential and knowledgeable person running down on other religions deliberately need to be jail or anytime soon we will find another pastor doing the same act.
Charge and Jail Pastor Rony Tan !
Suggested to PAP, any religious leader who wishes to start a worship service with followers should get a license from the Inter-Faith Religious Body before he can start preaching to his flock. This is to be applied to all religions gazetted in Spore: Judaism, Bahai, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, etc.
No license, then no preaching and no gathering of worshipers in any building, house etc.
Before license is granted, religious leader must attend compulsory interfaith religious guidance program that promotes understanding of all religions gazetted & must sit for a written & oral exam before license can be given.
I agree that there is no point in interfaith dialogue, if the known and hidden agenda is you believe what you want to believe and I respect yours but I believe what I believe. Such lousy dialogues are a waste of time. People who do this are just trying to showcase their broadmindedness and confusion.People must be able to stand up say why what they believe to be true is the truth and why they believe the other person is wrong without disparaging one another’s faith.
Many posters here have touched on the subject of understanding as well as the lack of understanding of one’s religion.
My view is that each individual have his/her own confort level of the depth in which one wants to go into in his/her understanding of his/her religion.
This applies to believers of all religions, atheist included.
While some need to go into great philoshopical depth to satisfy their intellectual actualisation, others are content with a superficial knowledge.
Religion is a moral compass, an spiritual anchor, as well as a motivational tool – think NLP reframing and visualisation techniques.
The guy who pray at the temple/mosque/church for his own betterment, regardless of how much he understands his religion, harms no one.
It is the fanatics that harms society.
Many have mock believers who are blind followers. But better blind followers who seek solace, than learned believer with misguided ambitions.
A language is an exact reflection of the character and growth of its speakers. “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” Man, for instance, cannot be untruthful, cruel or incontinent and claim to have God on his side.” …. M. GHANDI,
These speaks everything of RT, sad and sorry for him
@Religion Choice
I don’t have an evil heart and i don’t wish for everyone to go to hell. I am just stating that preachers should know who SHOULD and who ISN’t going to hell and for the record i don’t believe in heaven or Hell. Christianity is by far the only religion which goes around converting people asking them to join them making them feel guilty about going to hell etc etc. You don’t see muslims, buddhist or hindus going around do that. Religion is a free choice to anyone who wants to believe in it. It is a faith which people CHOOSES to believe in.
Why shouldn’t bigotry be addressed? Why shouldn’t the main culprits be exposed??
Too many times in this history of this world, we have let bigots ruin us.
Yes, this problem exists throughout the ages. However, I do not think its better to let the matter die and allow these insensitive pricks to continue spreading their hate message without their moves being checked.
The origins of many a genocide and race riot always start from a simple intolerant and hurtful message from someone who commands respect.
If there wasn’t a furore online and reports by Temasek Review, RT would have gotten away without apologising and retracting his remarks.
No one is attacking any community here, just advocating the exposure, shaming and rehabilitation of ones who are guilty of idiocy and bigotry.
Wouldn’t this prove a deterrent for others who think that they can get away it?
COMMY SG! on Wed, 17th Feb 2010 2:34 pm
Some religion is based primarily and mainly upon fear – the terror of the unknown. Fear is the basis of the whole thing — fear of the mysterious, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand in hand.
America becoming less Christian, survey finds,
“The rise in evangelical Christianity is contributing to the rejection of religion altogether by some Americans”
http://www.cnn.com/2009/LIVING/wayoflife/03/09/us.religion.less.christian/index.html
KopitiamApek said: “Many have mock believers who are blind followers. But better blind followers who seek solace, than learned believer with misguided ambitions.
Taken in the general context, a blind follower is just one who simply follows without much inquiry, questioning, learning and differentiating. I would say they easily accept and take literally what they were told in good faith. Nothing wrong as such. There is no suggestion that blind followers are good or bad. If they are seeking solace, well and good. If they are misled into doing something harmful what would you say?
When talking about blind followers, it is not ‘mocking’ but highlighting the danger of just merely believing without enquiry – be it religion, politics, etc. That danger is actually IGNORANCE. However, I reckon that not many people have the intellect to be inquisitive and analytical and are happy just the way things, customs, habits, faiths are. Didn’t you hear Ignorance is Bliss?
Of course, misguided ambitions are bad. And I don’t think they likely come from learned believers. More likely from misquided teachings or learnings and certainly from blindly believing (sans solace).
Going back in time, many beliefs arose from fear. And fear arises from ignorance. For instance, as a child we were afraid of ghosts. As we grow older, we learned they were ghost stories. Many claimed they have seen ghosts. I have not despite my strong desire to meet them. The only ghost I came across is human!
Fear of death is the reason why we believe in after-life. Fear is also the reason why we commit insane acts. Fear is also an instrument used to imprison minds, subvert, convert and pervert people.
Fear of ISD is the reason why Rony apologised.
Fear is the reason why you find kiasu and kiasi Singaporeans!
Using fear to convert is the quintessential instrument for religious conversion when there is no real truth.
Interestingly, Buddhism mentioned fear as one of the defilements. I am unable to find good literature espousing this concept.
aah-haa on Wed, 17th Feb 2010 7:13 pm
///If they are seeking solace, well and good. If they are misled into doing something harmful what would you say?
///
I agree with your point.
I am of the opinion that a person do not require a religion to know right from wrong. As such, many a “shallow believers” seeking solace have had their moral compass pointing the right direction.
No amount of smooth talking can make a righteous person kill another person. I think the majority of us cannot even get ourself to kill a chicken, let alone another human,
Of course that does not preclude him/her from being “brainwashed” by some smoothtalker into the less than correct religious path if he has no in depth knowledge. I think the majority of “ship jumpers” belong to this group, and these “preachers” know who to target.
And lastly…..False evidence appearing real – FEAR
aah-haa on Wed, 17th Feb 2010 7:13 pm
///And I don’t think they likely come from learned believers. More likely from misquided teachings or learnings and certainly from blindly believing ////
Your words had me thinking.
I always presumed that anyone who can become a pastor must have gotten the prerequisite knowledge before he can be one. Am I wrong in this? If so, then it is indeed disturbing.
To the person who imitated my name, his post stamped as
“@Zero on Wed, 17th Feb 2010 3:02 pm ”
first please have the courtesy not to copy my nickname here. Basic Netiquette.
Concernnig your comment ” I do not think its better to let the matter die and allow these insensitive pricks to continue spreading their hate message without their moves being checked.” Unquote.
You are missing the point totally. We have already settled the insensitive pricks as per Rony Tan. The ISD intervention was timely and the matter was considered as resolved because the Taoist and Buddhist leaders don’t wish to pursue and they accepted the apology. It is just like criminal case, if the defendant don’t press charges and forgive the accused, then the case is closed. Who are we to protest again and open up this case? To do so is in itself seditious trying to force more disharmony in religous lines…
Going back to the main point, it is an accepted fact that fundamentalism will exist within any relgion and radicals and bigots will exist side by side with the more conservative believer. As long as within their own factions they moderate themselves, it is best not to use external influence to disturb the equilibrium. As long as they don’t do things like rony tan did, openly and blatanlty, we have to leave space for them to correct themselves internally. TR should not highlight such matters as it serves no purpose. Religion is not a science, you cannot put it under a microscope and demand this and that from this group and that group and so on. You get more disharmony that way and you will split the country beyond recgonition if you are not careful.
zero
@protest
wow… what a complete turnaround from your previous comments.
after all the name callings…..
whether RT should step down or not, his 12,000 members can decide. whether he is fit to continue leading his Church or not, his 12,000 members will decide with GOD’s wisdom and guidance.
Are you a member of LH?
But i believe you are a Singaporean and you can help decide whether those overpaid ministers who blunders should step down.
fyi, i am not a member of LH….yet
anyway, lets move on….(quote from SM Goh)
and also, thank you for your concern..May God Bless you
To be objective, I feel that TR should have published the following remarks by the monk, so as not to mislead the readers, “However, other than one or two particular groups, I have found most religions in Singapore to be amiable and respectful towards each other.”
KopitiamApek said: “I am of the opinion that a person do not require a religion to know right from wrong. As such, many a “shallow believers” seeking solace have had their moral compass pointing the right direction.”
True, morality/ethics deals with right and wrong, not religion. That’s why someone said there is no morality in religion. However, in a belief system (religion), morality and spirituality is usually included. A course of study in Buddhism includes a module on Buddhist Ethics.
Most people have a sense of what’s right or wrong even a child – that is moral sense or compass as you put it. So whether blind-believers, shallow-believers or non-believers, morality does not require religion. Therefore, it is a fallacy to think that only the devoted or learned religionists, the clergy or monastic are morally upright or can do no wrong. In this respect, free-thinkers can be just as morally upright as any religious believers.
@Steven,
I think your reading of interpretation got some problems!! Don’t put your words into my mouth.
It’s your own stinking mouth!
I have already mentioned that RT should step down based on he has already compromised to his own belief! It’s just the same for the current minister we have in the cabinet, who have done grave mistakes and not fit to be in that positions anymore!!!
And i do have supporters in this cyberspace who agree with what i said, even RT ex-member also says that RT for decades has been preaching about all this buddhism. But he RT got no balls at all when he is being called up by ISD! Dare to say it in the stage, and don’t dare to face it when the real situation put right in front of him.
For goodness sakes, i am not his fan at all. And i think this person should know that he cannot be in that position anymore. I once more time declare there is no turnaround in my position which i say it earlier on. And i hold no apology at the end of the day. It’s the same reply as with those minister i insisted that they should step down. Becos i am one of the people’s power too!!!
And as for u, i think u need to realise this is a cyberspace, everyone of us have every right to comment on what they want to comment. It’s none of your bloody business as u don’t own the cyberspace !!! Mind U!!!
Remember to brush your foul and smelly mouth and teeth 3 times a day so that next time u come to the cyberspace, will be able to freshen the space…
Haha…. Great Loser U ARE Indeed!!! Even Cruel has already throw shit to your face already lah!!!!
I h
This article from online citizenship.
The Just One
Feb 18, 2010 3:42
@ The Cool one
to my knowledge, the couple that were found guilty got the story of Aisha from the Koran, and were found guilty of Sedition because they distributed parts of the Koran that modern Muslims (or rather, the 2 they distributed to) in Singapore find offensive, or should be interpreted in other ways, etc.
this Rony Tan, used staged interviews to a congregation of thousands to defame another faith, calling it Satanic at one point. while every religion will say something to this effect in its religious texts, preachers must be mindful that they are living in Singapore.
1) the couple had considerably less reach than Rony Tan in their Seditious activities.
2) unlike the couple who were found guilty, Rony Tan is a man with the social status of a Pastor, and therefore, most church goers will take what he said to be authoritative.
3) not all church goers are Christians; some were dragged by their friends.
3a) it shouldn’t matter if all church goers are Christians are not. Seditious speech is Seditious.
3b) it does not matter where the video is uploaded to; this is the age of the internet. anything on the internet can and will be duplicated and uploaded elsewhere. instead of blaming the person that uploaded on YouTube, blame the person that uploaded the original, and starred in the video instead.
3c) what you are saying is, it is OK to commit Seditious acts to people that are Seditious, or tolerate Seditious acts. i find that it is quite disturbing that there are Singaporeans that spew such nonsense.
4) Rony Tan admits wrong doing[1], and says that his Church is going through its archives to remove all material that might be offensive. meaning, this is not the first time he put down another religion.
i do not see why people will cry foul if Rony Tan were charged with Sedition, much less jailed and fined.
your conclusion is flawed. this isn’t about an eye for an eye. this is about upholding the Law with the fragile racial harmony at stake.
Reference:
[1] Straits Times: I’ve Let Many People Down http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_490657.html
Rony tan already committed a crime ,can it be undone merely by expressing regret for the wrong doing which is deliberately staged? Indeed all involved in staging it should be charged not just rony tan. WE are aggrieved and sadden not only by the wrong-doing of rony tan and his accomplice but also the seemingly double standard and discrimination of the govt!