Lighthouse Evangelism Pastor Rony Tan: Homosexuality means death and barrenness
February 10th, 2010 | 
Author: Written by Our Correspondent
It was reported by the Straits Times that Lighthouse Evangelism Senior Pastor Rony Tan was hauled up by the Internal Security Department (ISD) on Monday and was questioned for several hours over his remarks made about Buddhism and Taoism during a church session.
He was warned of the inappropriateness of his remarks after which he posted a public apology on his website.
Besides the three video clips in which he was alleged to have made disparaging remarks about Buddhism and Taoism which were removed earlier, all, except one of the video productions of the Miracle TV, the TV media unit of Lighthouse Evangelism were removed after the call from ISD.
One video on the website of Lighthouse Evangelism which had been taken down featured the testimony of Ms Cheryl Bachelor, a part-time employee of the church who claimed that she was “healed” from lesbianism. It was on the website for several months.
A blogger by the name of Kenneth Tan watched the video on Monday night just before it was removed and decided to rip it.
The 80-minute long video revolved around the interview with Cheryl Bachelor which was used to highlight Pastor Tan’s views on homosexuality:
According to Pastor Tan, homosexuals are not born “this way” and people end up “turning” gay either because of abuse or an absent parent when young.
He felt it is necessary to “warn” people of the pitfalls of homosexuality:
“If we don’t warn people against this, then there will be more and more homosexuals because many of these people will be harassing and seducing young boys, and they in turn will become homosexuals,” he exclaimed.
He insinuated that homosexuals are not “normal” people because they do not procreate:
“Proper sex means life — it propagates life. Lesbianism and homosexuality simply mean death and barrenness.”
Besides linking homsexuals with paedophiles, he also compare them with those who practise bestiality:
“If you allow [homosexuality], next time people will want to get married to monkeys. And they will want rights. They’ll want to apply for HDB. With a donkey or a monkey or a dog and so on. It’s very pathetic.”
Though Pastor Tan admitted himself he is not an expert in homosexuality, he wax lyrical about it passionately non-stop during the entire video.
In his personal apology tendered to leaders of the Buddhist and Taoist faiths yesterday, Pastor Tan said he was ignorant about Buddhism and Taoism.
Perhaps it is time for him to read up more on homosexuality as well.
Watch the video on Kenneth Tan’s blog
Posted in Headlines
90 Responses to “Lighthouse Evangelism Pastor Rony Tan: Homosexuality means death and barrenness”
Loading ...
Alex Tan Allan Ooi AWARE Chee Soon Juan Chiam See Tong Claire Lee David Widjaja DBS Dr Allan Ooi Dr Silviu Ionescu Dr Vivian Balakrishnan Foyce Le Xuan highnote5 Hong Lim Park Jack Lin Xinli Jack Neo Jack Neo affair Jack Neo scandal Josie Lau Josie Lau Meng Lee Lee Kuan Yew Lehman brothers Lighthouse Evangelism MAS minibonds Miss Singapore World NTU stabbing PAP Pastor Rony Tan Ris Low Romanian diplomat in hit-and-run Rony Tan S-League silviu ionescu Singapore Singapore 2010 Youth Olympic Games Tan Kin Lian Thio Su Mien Tiger Woods affair Tong Kok Wai Top 8 Vivian Balakrishnan Wendy Chong Y O G Youth Olympic Games
WP Cumulus Flash tag cloud by Roy Tanck and Luke Morton requires Flash Player 9 or better.
The ministry of lighthouse is very obviously built on nothing more than assumption and hatred.
Admin
Why are you still fanning the flames? How about some revelations about Rev Ming Yi’s indiscretions for a change. I sure want to know why he was watching all the porn in his condo, and his companion gladly take the fall for that.
Come on, let’s hear something about that too instead of quickly closing the issue.
Rony, Rony, Rony why don’t you keep your mouth shut. First you talk crap about religions you know nothing about.
Now, you claim you can heal homosexuality. Either you have shit for brains or your flock does (if it believes you). I can understand your motives, raking in $$$$ but your flock of 12,000? They must indeed be sheep.
It’s a known fact that many of the major religions are against homosexuality.
It is not true that “major religions” are against homosexuality.
http://www.yawningbread.org/arch_2005/yax-501.htm
Buddhist leader: it’s all the politics of hate and ill-will
In middle October, a highly respected Buddhist monk, Ajahn Brahm, was in Singapore. As the spiritual advisor of the Buddhist Fellowship here, he gave a talk to its members. It was held at Bright Hill, one of the major centres of Buddhist worship and learning in Singapore.
There were thousands in the audience, and these thousands were to witness a question from one of their own, and Ajahn Brahm’s reply.
Yes, that question was about homosexuality.
Now, Ajahn Brahm is normally a very calm, measured speaker, often addressing his listeners with a touch of humour, but this question, and only this one, got him all passionate in his response.
According to my friend Eileena Lee who was in the audience, he was unequivocal. He said he supported gay people, and would have no hesitation to bless gay marriages. He added that countries that did not recognise gays and lesbians had no compassion. And then to underline his stance, he said if the Buddhist Fellowship did not support sexual minorities, he would resign as patron.
Indeed that is consistent with an hour-long talk he gave in July 2003, titled Buddhism and Sexuality. You can listen to an mp3 file of it here:
http://www.bswa.org/modules/mydownloads/singlefile.php?cid=4&lid=206
(It’s 1 hour 2 minutes long. If you don’t have the patience, listen at least to the first 15 minutes of it; that’s when he focusses specifically on homosexuality.)
I wasn’t at the Bright Hill talk, but I listened to the July 2003 one. My comments below refer to what I heard from the mp3 file.
He made two important points there about Buddhist teaching that can be applied to sexuality.
Firstly, we should avoid causing hurt and injury to others. It’s not a matter of whether homosexuality or heterosexuality is good or bad, right or wrong, but that of our relationship with the other person. Is it consensual? Is there mutuality? Is there honesty, tenderness and giving? These are our responsibilities; morally speaking, it does not matter whether the partner is same-sex or opposite-sex.
Secondly, we should avoid conceit, and judging others is a form of conceit. Instead, he argued that we should “open the door to our hearts” to all. We must learn to accept others for what they are, and ourselves for what we are.
Interestingly, he told his audience he often got letters from Buddhist parents in Singapore and Malaysia, who had discovered their sons or daughters to be gay, He always advised these parents, he said, to open the doors to their hearts, to love, accept and be content.
Towards the end of that hour-long talk, Ajahn Brahm noted, “people who want to convert you or change you…. it’s all the politics of hate and ill-will.”
So what if Rony is against gay? Trying to put it on the same level as being seditious against Buddhism?
TR, you are doing fine (so far) on political issues. Don’t go the way of TOC and other sites promoting gay agenda.
@WTF. Did MingYi uploaded videos of his own idiocy for the whole world to see??
TR, well-done for digging out more such issues that affects our society.
I believe all human beings have a place in this world. This pastor should not be spouting nonsense that continue to bring bad/ill-feelings to this world. Followers should have a mind of their own to clarify the exact meaning of their religion.
To me:
Homosexuals (Gays/Lesbians) are as normal as other human beings. It is just that they have different sexual orientation.
As matured adults, we also must be able to differentiate homosexual does not equate to paedophiles, bestiality etc. Similarly, heterosexual does not equate to paedophiles, rapist, bestiality, etc.
What he has done or spread is a gross wrongful discrimination against homosexual.
I am not very sure, but I read in last AWARE episode that Christianity condemn Homosexuality (the act) but not Homosexual (the person). If this is true and factual, this Pastor had greatly mis-represented/mis-understand his own religion, and seriously need more read-up on any topic he is going into.
@WTF: Make no mistake, Rony does not represent Christianity. This is not a witch hunt directed at Christians, its a witch hunt directed at those who promote bigotry and hate, like our Rony here.
I’m a buddhist myself but i think why Rony criticised homosexuality is because of his background.ALL religions denounce homosexuals and i think there is where he is coming from.But i thought he should have phrased it with more tact though
Dear
What make you so sure that Homosexuality doesn’t means death and barrenness? These are teachings in the bible. There are also belief that if you are a sinner, without the salvation of Jesus, you be judge and suffer in hell eternally. It can only be proven upon our death and if you stand before God to be judge then, good luck.
What make you so sure that there is no Karma as base on teaching of Buddha? Again it can be proven upon death.
You are writing a subject that disagree with Rony and that you too cannot prove.
If you believe in Buddha or Jesus or other religious teachings, defend it in a constructing debate and if still cannot convince the other party, respect their choice.
I know of people that condemned Buddhism, Islam and others. We should refrain from puting their names and articles on the web and publish such a way to fan flames.
We should respect others choices and views, even if it is a little extreme.
Dear TR Correspondent, You have the ability to influence readers and I suggest you stay neutral and not be anti Islam, Taoist, Christian or others. if possible, pls prove to us that Homosexuality dosen’t means death and barrenness.
Thank You
Oh religious people, just shut up!
In buddhism, whether heterosexual or homosexual romantic “love” should in essence be the same because they are both conditional and based on attachment and the notion of “self”. A person who is highly evolved spiritually would have moved on to embrace selfless love that encompasses all..
here we go again. another long thread.
Einstein said:”Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I’m not sure about the former.”
rony tan surely fits into the mould of einstein’s quote.
actually,i think homosexuals or buddhists are not harmed by his comments, instead its his followers who are harmed, they are the ones who are going to believe his nonsense. hope they wake up after this incident.
Homosexuals are people too.
This Pastor equate them as sexual predators, and even have the gall to say they are genetically flawed.
Unfortunately, our gahmen do not look favourably at homosexuality. And they do not have an organisation which is recognised and protected by law. I am not sure if the Police or the ISD will act this time.
Who will fight for their rights?
He had exaggerated the fact about homosexuality but it contain certain degree of truths. Hmm, i think he sided with procreation which is what the sg govt wants. Lesbians and gays are personal choice and not what he suggested as majority suffered some form of childhood abuse/absent of parents.
TR pls focus more on political issues and not directed at Rony Tan for his mistake. Don’t turn it into Christianity vs other religions.
As a buddhist myself, i think it is better to judge on macroscopic actions than the individual microscopic action.
No more linking of religions, it is suppose to be a transparent media against the bias-pap media.
Peace to all!
@junjie:
“certain degree of truths”? “siding with procreation”? This allows you to demonise and put down and entire class of people?
*sdfd
Actually the onus is not on gays and lesbians to prove anything; Rony made the statement which you supported so you guys should prove whether gays and lesbians lead to death and barrenness …. which is actually a strange statement to make in the first place considering all of us will end up dead eventually.
As for barrenness – well with IVF and surrogacy, you now have gay families in europe and the states.
So prove to us your fatal foreboding for gays and lesbians. Better, still get Rony to do it.
Yah, I agree. What has homosexuality got to do with it? He did nothing wrong under the law to comment on that. While we can get him for his remarks on other religions under the Racial & Religious Harmony Act. MY suggestion, learn from the PAP. If you want to nail a person, better get you facts on the law right.
Why is it that an elder from his church was convicted for sex with an underage girl?
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_406420.html
Seriously, how does Lighthouse Evangelism appoint their clergy?
@WTF – WTF is wrong?
I didn’t know the hunting season has begun. This looks like a witch hunt to me. TR should stick to politics and other more important issues and not try to stir up more hatred. What next? That Pastor Tan did not give up his seat on the train for a pregnant woman?
Agree with junjie’s point. The Singapore government is for procreation. For the survival and well-being of the nation-state in the longer run, it will not encourage or support a life-style that works against population growth.
From an evolutionary perspective, a tribe/species that favors homosexuality inevitably leads to barrenness, and ultimately the demise of the tribe/species.
It is for this reason that homosexuals (whether those in the animal kingdom or in human communities) has always been, and will always remain a minority.
Having said the above, I strongly believe that people with homosexual inclination should be treated with respect and understanding, and should not be discriminated against, denigrated or demonized.
Nevertheless, realistically speaking, we must acknowledge that there will always be a bias among most of us (many a times unconsciously or sub-consciously) for heterosexuality and against homosexuality, given our evolutionary (natural) instinct for procreation and survival.
The more we are willing to admit this bias wired in our natural brain, the better able we will be able to address it and override it, with our rational mind.
Actually whether this issue is important or not is subjective and really depends on the personal opinions and beliefs of people. If you dun think it is, click off and dun comment. But if you do, join the fun. Strange to think that people can perceive front page news as something not worth reporting on a political site. After all does not race and religious relationships form part of the political (if not a vital ingredient) culture in any society?
@Not again on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 10:40 pm
‘Witch hunt’ or not, the moment I read about that pastor patronising paid sex, I couldn’t help literally rolling on the floor and laughing till my guts are out.
My God! What has become of this world, with such weird and unthinkable things happening! LOL.
Not Again
Didn’t someone said earlier has a slant towards one particular religion. And another who was also of the view that, perhaps, TR has an agenda behind all this. And yet there was someone else who commented that TR should stop continuing with the outpouring of thread after thread on this issue.
Whether they are pursuing an agenda or not (denied by Admin, but their action doesn’t seem to fit their denial), it is beginning to bore us. It is beginning to look like a cheap sensational news web.
TR, you should stop the religious flaming. There will be no stopping of bashing. History speaks for itself. It only takes a spark to flame the forest. The fact is, there are people who cannot handle such events and take the law by their own hands. Your articles played a part in flaming his anger.
I’m a Christian and what pastor Rony did is wrong. At least he apologized, unlike the home minister who did not apologise for his wrong doing, but was quick to play class monitor in this saga.
Let us not forget to respect one another….
this joker turned into a pool of melted ice claiming ignorance, and talked like a real ass on sexuality issues too. he needs a REAL lighthouse.
Nobody’s fanning any religious hatred here. What we have here is a stupid pastor who’s clearly put his foot in his own mouth and who doesn’t talk with his brain.
There is a quote widely claimed by many americans as stupid and dumb :
“We know there are known knowns: there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns: that is to say we know there are things we know we don’t know. But there are also unknown unknowns — the ones we don’t know we don’t know.”
— Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, Defense Department briefing, Fe. 12, 2002
This pastor, a highly intelligent being with a working brain (if not he would not have been a pastor for so long), professed to be the most learned creature yet failed to see the repercussion of his action. Either he has been trying to achieve fame through the wrong way or he is plain stupid. Can we claim ignorance when we caused damages to something, in this case the spiritual/religious aspect of a faith more way before we know what is B.C.
Being a pastor, does he not know the importance of harmonious co-existence especially in our multicultural multiracial society? If he does, then he is provoking the people of other faith. If he doesn’t, then he is not fit to be a pastor.
Perhaps his colleague Tom Honey can teach him a bit about humility as can be seen here :
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/tom_honey_on_god_and_the_tsunami.html
I wonder would he apologize to gay and lesbian?
To nosense: The guy which you mentioned was NEVER an elder at Lighthouse Evangelism. He was an elder at his previous church and is just a regular attendee at Lighthouse. The Straits Times got their facts wrong, and this was clarified by ST.
What is wrong with a pastor commenting his views on homosexuality in his own church to a willing audience? People may disagree with his views and walk away. Did Pastor Rony force it down on anyone to take his stand? His speech may instead help those sitting on the fence rethink if they really want to be a homosexual. Can anyone argue the fact that homosexuality lead to barreness? It is not natural, and no homosexuals can conceive naturally. He is preaching based on the bible.
In my opinion, this Kelvin Tan is probably a gay himself, and is using this great oppotunity to stir the homosexuals into condemning Christianity.
Sloo: Death here refers to eternal death, not physical death. Everyone dies a physical death, but the soul lives forever. You either go to eternal heaven or the other way. Homosexuality does not lead to ethernal live, according to God’s Word in the bible.
IVF?? Surrogacy?? You still need a sperm and an egg to procreate right? How do 2 gays or 2 lesbians procreate? Doesn’t this lead to barreness? If the world is made up with a majority of homosexuals, doesn’t this lead to death?
the argument on procreation is crap, homosexuals cannot adopt? religious pricks trying to deny them of their right to become parents???
Religious already bad, racial even worse, now sexual orientation!?
TR, seriously can stick to FT and PAP bashing or not? You sidetrack somemore, I’ll have less chances to talk cok sing song. Wait until they lapse my membership, I’ll have to change my moniker to Ex-PAP member leow!
so rony crossed the line. at least he apologised that what he said was uncalled for and not the truth. if it is the truth – no need to apologise.
aiyo move on lah, dont waste time with morons and itards.
peace be with you.
By the same reasoning, heterosexual singles, heterosexual couples who are biologically infertile, are also “death and barrenness”? If sex is meant to procreate, then there should be no sexual protection during sex (leading to worsening explosion of population on this fragile earth) and the thoughts during the sexual acts should be one of serving and not for self gratification!?
Is it surprising that guilt to so common amongst such “blind” believers?
Watch this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UMP3AK5jwo
TR really degenerating with crap reporting! It is no longer credible and becoming apparent with is its gay, lesbian group and anti Christian media leaning.
Gay,lesbian, bestiality, incest are against natural order. Only a warped poisoned mind would think that this is normal. The next thing is there will be another group who says that their rights allow them to marry their own natural siblings, father and mother, marry their dogs, sheep because of rising trend of such pressure groups.
Christians,stand firm. Be courageous to stand against this movement. We respect other religions but we can disagree with their opinions and beliefs and other religion too have to respect our faith. We stand by the truth of our God. Tell your friends how crap TR has now become! Dust off your feet from this media and withdraw your peace from TR!
@stfd n cc
fallacies in your barrenness argument.
1) the inability to conceive a child (barrenness in your term) can inflict any man or woman, regardless of their sexual orientation. heterosexuals can be barren too. some of them cannot conceive naturally too.
2) most homosexuals have the ability to conceive and bear children naturally, if they want to. hence they are not in a state of barrenness.
so your argument fail to hold water. you fallaciously link biological inability to conceive with sexual orientation. it would be better to say many homosexual couple choose not to have children. maybe you equate this to barrenness too? but then, many heterosexual couples also choose not to have children. so, choosing not having babies is also not unique to homosexuality. again the homosexual=barren argument fails.
pls have clear rational basis for your arguments, don’t make false conclusions, presumptions or assumptions.
To Pastor Rony…seem there are so may people with hatred
in their heart over your views. Do not be sad at all because truth always hurt very much. The bible which is so many century old and very clearly written God’s words..the
same sex practices is one of a very deadly sins against God
the creator. There so much truths in today modern world
in refrence to God destroying the evil city of Sodom and
Gomorrah…The word sodomy comes from this evil city of Sodom
@ stfd n cc
following from the above reasoning, your homosexual=death argument can also be similarly and easily debunked. i’m sure you can see that for yourselves.
Evangelists who don’t respect other people’s private or religious spaces must never be allowed to take over our secular country and turn it into their religious playground.
They would do well to remember the words of our Pledge, where it says ‘Pledge ourselves as one united people, regardless of race, language or religion’.
Contempt, fear and discrimination are values which have no place in today’s globalized world.
@sdfd on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 8:56 pm
It can only be proven upon our death and if you stand before God to be judge then, good luck.
Based on what you said are you also saying that none of us can be absolutely sure if our beliefs are correct until the day we die?
Actually I do agree with this rationale and therefore lets not be so affirmative about our beliefs and insist others are wrong as we are solely relying on our faith. What makes us think that our faith is more accurate than some others since none of us will know till we die.
And please dont tell me that a certain religious book said so since those books are still written by man of faith based on what they said was communicated to them by their God. Not saying if its right or wrong since none of us know for sure but since its written by men and the are more than one religion someone must be right and someone must be wrong.
What about free speech in this area? Why can’t Rony preach and teach what he believes in this area? Is this the intolerance of those who advocate tolerance for other matters?
speak clearer not louder on Thu, 11th Feb 2010 8:13 am
“pls have clear rational basis for your arguments, don’t make false conclusions, presumptions or assumptions.”
Look who’s talking? It is true that some heterosexual may not be able to conceive but this due to some defects. Most heterosexuals can conveive.
But homosexuals can never conceive naturally without any medical intervention. The key word is natural! Did I study the wrong science book all these years?
Your arguments are obviously lopsided and based on presumptions or assumptions.
“Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.” Proverbs 17:28
The problem with homosexuality is one identical to sexism. If you are born male and straight, you can never know what it’s like to be a woman. The same applies for women towards men.
Homosexuality is something straight people will never understand, becasue it is something deeply embedded in a person. A straight man’s analogy: If you’re a man struggling to understand why your wife likes to shares her emotions so much for example, you would never succeed if you don’t place yourself in a woman’s shoes. To do that a man will need to UNDERSTAND how and why women behave in certain ways that are different from us men.
So if pastors or religious folk keep telling straight people that homosexuality is a choice, it is akin to a man telling his wife, and other men around him, that she is ‘choosing’ to be irritable at you during her time of the month. Most of us with partners will know that this leads to serious trouble. This makes anti-homosexuals a lot simpler to understand in this context I think. Becasue feminists have fought for equal rights between men and women for centuries, we now have a more desireable situation where men appreciate the differences that women bring to the world and we try our best to understand why women are so different from us. (at least I HOPE this is what most men do :p)
Homosexuals will one day be accorded equal rights as straight people. But religion will definitely not be of any help if all religious people rely on (seriously) outdated religious texts to guide their decisions and opinions.
I’m not insinuating that religion is pointless, becasue it isn’t. It just needs to evolve. Spirituality gives millions of people peace of mind and a clear and positive direction in life. It has achieved many glorious victories against povery and disease. Religious DOGMA however is nothing more than that; authoritative beliefs that people keep insisting are true even when the proof clearly shows their fallacy.
@WTF
Why drag Ming Yi case here? He did wrong he is going to jail!
you are obviously a bigoted follower of Pastor Tan. You are
defending Rony Tan? Come out in the open in defend him ,you have every right.
Majority of rational posters here are not against christianity, in fact by condemning the ACTIONS of Rony Tan they are protecting christianity and all other religions from abuse in future.
Pray to your god so he may enlighten you.
I am an agnostic.
I feel that this whole episode really boils down to not which religion is right or wrong. I believe God is Love. He is with us, all around us, Christians, Buddhists, Taoists, Hindus, Muslims, Jews, Atheists, etc…everyone is loved. No human should judge or condemn another. We are all here to love and be loved by Him. Yes, those who believe there’s a God, there must be a Devil & its demons. But if we do not speak with love and kindness, I believe that we gotta pray for ourselves FIRST that God be with us and so that we can be more loving and kind towards others.
@cc:
Matt 7:6
Peace.
I am a relatively free-thinker. No special attachment to any religion. I saw the Rony Tan video clip. It was indeed very offensive, mocking at believers of other faiths. It is always easy to criticise others while immersing unquestionably in what you believe in.
Just for discussion sake, I have some questions
1. Why is Jerusalem, the birth place of Christ in such a mess?
2. Why did GOD allow happenings like the 911 and hotel bombings etc, where the majority who died are Christians?
3. Why is it that always when something good happens, they say, “Praise the Lord” and when something bad happens, it is “Blame Satan”?
Please enlighten !
When their answer is not met, God have plan for them.
When something good/bad occur beyond their understanding, God work in mysteriously way.
No matter what they will have excuses. Just cannot be wrong.
Einstein say those believe in God are Childish. Make sense to me.
Any religion followers or leaders (no god, one god or many gods), just stop spreading any hatred/falsehood and concentrate on bringing out/sharing (without any forms of pressure on others) the goodness of your religion.
http://rescomp.stanford.edu/~cheshire/EinsteinQuotes.html
The link above are some of Einstein’s quotes, can’t find the one where he says those who believe in God is childish
I especially like this one: “Not everything that counts can be counted, and not everything that can be counted counts.”
@ WTF:
the difference is that ming yi never sowed religious discord (not publicly anyway. anything private is out of bounds by the media anyway, yes?). his case was never quickly closed – the lawsuit was reported in the papers, and yes, he has been duly punished by the law.
please get your comparison point right, and in your own words – “why are you still fanning the flames?”. the spotlight is now on pastor rony tan.
My god, these people who actually listens to what he says and believe him are officially brainwashed, well, a long time ago.
I’m a buddhist and i feel that homosexuality is not wrong. It’s 2 people in love. HATING is wrong. Hate is a sin … not only in buddhism but all the other religions, they only expressed it in different forms, languages, etc.
In non-politital religions, we are always taught to love, so what’s the hate among others? Why is it exisiting?
It’s always these political ‘terrorists’ traps that people fell into that create hate.
‘He said he supported gay people, and would have no hesitation to bless gay marriages. He added that countries that did not recognise gays and lesbians had no compassion. And then to underline his stance, he said if the Buddhist Fellowship did not support sexual minorities, he would resign as patron.’
Peace, compassion, respect, etc are what God are meant to teach people. Not hate.. NEVER hate.
My god, what is this world coming to?!
Homosexuals are human too, they don’t become serial rapists. And it seems that Rony Tan is forgetting animals are also part of Earth’s inhabitants. Don’t compare animals with humans like that, there is a reason why we are still human.
Such shallow ideologies. May God BLESS them.
Dear Question Mark – yours are tough questions but the answers lie in reading Middle East history and current affairs with a copy of the Bible in hand. Thousands of Bible prophecies have come true, including Israel’s miraculous independence on 14 May 1948. You’ll be amazed if you read about it. No easy answers to your questions but I’ll try:
1. Why is Jerusalem, the birth place of Christ in such a mess?
-The arab-Israeli conflict leading to the current mess in Israel and Jerusalem dates way back to the time of 7th century Islam. It is a complex mix of religious pride, selfish politics and anti-semitism against Jews (and more).
2. Why did GOD allow happenings like the 911 and hotel bombings etc, where the majority who died are Christians?
-Christians are never promised a bed of roses , nor a life free from troubles and calamities. As to why God allows it – the evil nature of mankind is the source of these disasters. Why should we expect God to fly in like Superman to the rescue every time, when we willfully deny Him His rightful place in our lives?
3. Why is it that always when something good happens, they say, “Praise the Lord” and when something bad happens, it is “Blame Satan”?
-No, we don’t always blame satan although it is the most convenient thing to do. We thank and praise God for and under ALL circumstances – the good and the bad. Read the Book of Job in the Bible for a glimpse of what it means.
Hope this clarifies and not confuse anyone…
HI TR And Admin,
I believe in openness and the freedom to information. However I feel that there is a lack of objectivity in this report. In fact I feel that this report itself is almost one that is seditious in the fact that many people are now flaming Christianity for the actions of one man.
I hope that perhaps this could be addressed. I’m Catholic and I respect other religions just as much, but in order for us to truly say we respect other religions, I think we should steer away from religious morale teachings, believes and personal faith.
Sure I don’t agree with Rony Tan’s method of preaching but the fundamentals to his teachings are correct, however by posting up this report, it could indirectly lead to the questioning and flaming of those fundamental doctrines found in the Bible.
So I hope that in order to prevent any further misunderstanding between the community on TR, I hope you can review this report and angle it in a more objective manner rather then insinuating hate messages against each other’s religion.
And in case many of you do not know, Homosexuality is wrong in our teaching but we are taught to still love homosexuals in any normal way. We don’t condone it, but we don’t hate you.
Also, homosexuality is as bad as any sins that we have committed. From Lying to stealing to anything. So before anyone wants to say another hate message on anything, let them first review themselves and only when they are perfect, should they come forward and “cast the first stone”
Thanks guys! Hope you understand where i’m coming from
I am a Christian, and am thankful to have been called to be one. I have attended Lighthouse Church a few times more than 10 years ago but I guess I just wasn’t comfortable there. All I would like to share is a verse from the Book Of
Psalms Chapter 1: Blessed is the man
who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked
or stand in the way of sinners
or sit in the seat of mockers.
What I saw on the video was mockery. I will not judge nor condemn the person involved, but the incident that took place. The testimonies of two people who fell in love with Jesus was turned into a comedy.
So Pastor Rony Tan, please touch your heart and do the right thing. My personal belief is you should step down.At least for the sake of your congregation and other Churches that preach Grace and Love through Our Lord Jesus Christ.HIS Shalom Peace To All.
@MoneyMan: Read your Bible carefully. The word “homosexuality” wasn’t even around when the Bible was being written.
We are talking about Logic & Science vs Religion here. Someone here is pointing out the ridiculousness of Rony Tan’s assertion that Homosexuality = Paedophilia = Bestiality.
And you’re taking out your Bible to defend Rony Tan?
Christian evangelists promoted hatred and fear and want to show they are superior by picking on any minority not protected by the law. This must be stopped
There is the word sodomy. Maybe should find out what that means hor baby!
THANK YOU James Tan, for TRYING to answer my questios. But sorry to say, you really confused me furher than clarify.
1. If the Holy Land cannot be protected by GOD, how else can other placs be protected?
2. QUOTE, “Why should we expect God to fly in like Superman to the rescue every time, when we willfully deny Him His rightful place in our lives?” — I am sure many who perished in those horrible massacre were Christians and HAD NOT DENIED HIM his rightful place in their lives. So why were they not rescued by “Superman”?
3. Don’t ask me to read the BIBLE when I am not convinced. Explain it in logical laymen’s terms please.
And another question — WHAT is the purpose of living when being dead means going to a “better place”? Might as well die.
Regards
#Moneyman on Fri, 12th Feb 2010 10:45 am
>>”… So I hope that in order to prevent any further misunderstanding between the community on TR, I hope you can review this report and angle it in a more objective manner rather then insinuating hate messages against each other’s religion.
>>And in case many of you do not know, Homosexuality is wrong in our teaching but we are taught to still love homosexuals in any normal way. We don’t condone it, but we don’t hate you.
>>Also, homosexuality is as bad as any sins that we have committed. From Lying to stealing to anything. So before anyone wants to say another hate message on anything, let them first review themselves and only when they are perfect, should they come forward and “cast the first stone”
>>Thanks guys! Hope you understand where i’m coming from …”
===========================================================
Dear Moneyman,
You don’t realise that your words are actually fanning even more hatred. Analyse your own words again. The root of the problem is you think you and your beliefs are the truth. You call that being objective?
Question Mark,
In relation to question No.
(3), if it can be so easily explain and every man can catch the same perceived logic then no need to have so many different religions already.
(4) That is a very logical answer for your question. But it is not always two dimentional. So u have to think deeper to find your answer. They are not always what u see in surface. Many spend their lives searching for the meaning of life and die in regret. Others see no meaning in live and end it before they can think further. For those who are around, they are in a state of confusion. Nobody say that dying is better. Its only taught in certain religion that if u believe in it, you will go to a better place. If u dont u will burn in eternalty. But if you perceive that to burn in eternity is better than to go to a better place then to die in better place is in fact not a better place.
Dont bother to read my post anyway, they are multi dimentional. It takes a more than saint to visualise and understand. For mortals, they are plain rubbish.
Anyway hope u find your answers to your confusion.
Have you all ever heard – Opposite polls attract and like polls reppel. No one invented this. It is in the creation. The creator of this creation has created his creation in such! And the intelligent creature of this creation wants to over thorw the creator by saying that like polls too could attract for some reason. If the creator has created his creation in such that opposite should attract, then there is a reson. If he [the creator] had some intention other wise then he should have not created opposite sex! Above words are only ment to say that trying to promote homosexuality (e.g same marriage etc.) is same as trying to attract the like polls. It is against the universal law. Keeping in mind the homosexuals there should be compasion towards them and not to be condomed. This attitude is not to promote but to heal the uncure!
Do you realise this?
After reading your guys’ and girls’ post, I realised something in common. You people are actually trying to preach the same gospel. That is “HARMONY”. You people are actually telling others like Rony that to criticise other peoples’ religion and sexual orientation etc etc are wrong and should not be tolerated.
Do you realised that you all are actually the product of our MIW’s propaganda which they had been doing since the 1960s. They have the policy of no tolerance for racial and religious disharmony. They tried to integrate people of different races and religions, to advertise to tell them to be tolerance to each other. Any one acting otherwise is unacceptable and will be called up by ISD to lim kopi.
From your reactions, it indirectly says that you guys are the unofficial ISD calling up Rony Tan to lim Kopi in the online world.
The MIW must be very happy that their efforts paid off. They have succeed in their mission. Singaporeans be it for MIW or against MIW are actually doing the MIW’s will. Good work guys!!
With regard to the ‘phenomenon’ of homosexuality, has any anti-homo person or group ever thought about he possibility of reincarnation itself being the reason for a person’s orientation? This could itself explain why a physically macho-looking men may think like a woman, and a dainty and demure chick can think like a man (Tomboy). The soul personality within the physical body frame is the real thinking consciousness of the person.
In spiritual matters, all should maintain an open mind.
I attended Rony Tan’s Church once to witness the miracles, frankly I was saddened at the judgement and hypocrisy and fear generated during the service. It was very off putting and made me feel physically nauseous.
Gay Straight it does not really matter as all are one with God, and the current state of christianity and some other religions is based not on the Word of God but mans’ interpretation.
Why is this world in such a mess after 2000 years of fear we have turned away from God and we have lost the Love in our hearts for this existence and have replaced it with a selfish attitude that bears little or no resemblance to the real Gospels. One must never forget that we have free will and all must believe what we feel in our hearts without the bios and programming that we endured in our formative years.
We are all Creators, we all have God Particles within ourselves, our souls live forever and too few people understand the big picture or the souls’ purpose which extends way beyond this existence in this NOW. We come here to learn and to experience what we needed to learn when we choose to be here at this time.
Blessed be and we just have to remember that Pastor Tan is no different he is also learning.
To Eternalty – QUOTE : “If u dont u will burn in eternalty. But if you perceive that to burn in eternity is better than to go to a better place then to die in better place is in fact not a better place.”
WHAT are you trying to say? Are you confirming a statement or making a mockery of the statement? In any case, why try to explain when you cannot?
I know it can be very frustrating when you try to explain but people who are not “synchronised” simply cannot comprehend. So naturally and gradually, the speaker resorts to abuses, threats, mockery, insults etc. This brings us to Pastor Tan, rediculing others who are not part of his flock. You are right, there are many religions. My point is – nobody can possibly explain his religion. It is easy to criticise others while immersing unquestionably in what you believe in. We are ALL mortals trying to find an answer. Let nobody pretends that he has found it.
Question Mark, please allow me to close this chapter, as much as I do this whole episode we have been made to endure. Time to close the book!
- the truth is, although this Almighty God is not obliged to protect anyone nor any place, including Jerusalem, the fact is – He does and He has done so. The remarkable and surprising return of Jerusalem to Israel’s sovereignty in June 1967 is a case in point. You don’t have to read the Bible to know this. Just Google.
- Christians suffer and die everyday in arab countries, in North Korea, in Iran, etc etc. That is a fact few people know, but Christians understand it from the Bible although it is still difficult for many to accept. I reckon this is the cost of Christian discipleship.
- the curious thing about the Bible is this – I was not convinced until I read it and allowed God to speak to me!
- Yes, the “better place” is indeed better, and I agree with you I should desire to “go home” to God asap! Yet we all struggle with living on as people we care about give us the meaning and the courage to carry on living. For us Christians, we are at peace with God and we know of God’s purpose, whether living and dying.
To Na – the word “sodomy” derives from the city of Sodom (you know, Sodom and Gommorah), which was detailed in the Book of Genesis. Look up http://www.christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a007.html if you wish.
To Atheist: I’m not sure if the word homosexuality was a coined term after the writing of the Bible but homosexuality was already a practice during the times of the Bible. So yes.. And Also let me quote myself saying “Sure I don’t agree with Rony Tan’s method of preaching but the fundamentals to his teachings are correct”
I think I didnt make myself clear, my apologies… No the fundamentals that I was mentioning about was not “Homosexuality = Paedophilia = Bestiality.”
Its more of homosexuality is wrong… But the way he puts it across in the aforementioned manner… I do not agree with. As I said, I don’t think its right to hate homosexuals, but the bible just doesn’t condone it… I believe in the bible, so to each his own right? So I hope you don’t get me wrong… I don’t think homosexuals are any lower beings.. They ought to be treated equally like anyone of us. There are straight people that are into rape and pedophilia and beastiality so Rony tan is stereotyping… and I don’t agree with that one bit.. And no I’m not defending him, I’m just saying that we really ought to drop the matter not keep reporting about every single hateful message he preaches right and giving more bad publicity to christianity because of him?
To Harry TomDick,
I believe that my religion is truth, but doesn’t everyone do that?
If you are a buddhist, would you not think your religion is the true way? If you are a muslim, would you not think your religion is the pathway to heaven? If you don’t, then I would not be able to comprehend why you would have a religion.
Think about it this way, would you like it if we christians went into a buddhist temple and started praying or singing… Answer is probably Not…
We have to respect each other’s beliefs. If you think your religion is the true way then so be it. If i think mine is true, then so be it. Why does it matter? As long as I don’t step into your boundary, we’ll be happy right?
And apart from that, what I meant by objective, is what can be achieved by having another rony article and how he really trashes people.
He’s not correct in the way he is doing it, In fact if you do want to change someone you might even be accepting of that person and not ridicule him correct?
But rony isnt doing anything right.. Not for the Buddhist incident and not for this stupid homosexuality incident. He spreads a widening gap between his church goers and the buddhist and homosexuals.
Which does not coincide with the bible when the bible says, “Love one another as I have loved you”. In fact the bible tells us Rony is wrong to a certain degree, “”Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?”
That verse tells us not to judge others as we may be no better or worse than them. All of us are in no position to judge who is better or worse.
But whats the point of having this article? To make people feel that christians are all like rony tan or what? I dont know.. Its just something I feel isn’t clear enough and judging from the comments about rony tan all over TR, its quite hateful… Just read around and see for yourself…
I dont mean any offense to anyone.. this is my piece.. So I’m kinda just gonna leave it as this.. You’re welcomed to rebutt me but I won’t reply because this debate could go on and on.. So no point…
HAPPY CNY ANYWAY!
Sorry my bad…. Typo*
But whats the point of having this article? To make people feel that christians are all like rony tan or what? I dont know.. Its just something I feel isn’t clear enough and judging from the subtle* and outright* comments about Christianity* all over TR, its quite hateful… Just read around and see for yourself…
I dont mean any offense to anyone.. this is my piece.. So I’m kinda just gonna leave it as this.. You’re welcomed to rebutt me but I won’t reply because this debate could go on and on.. So no point…
HAPPY CNY ANYWAY!
YES, James I agree with you that we should close this chapter.
THANKS again. I appreciate your attempt to answer my questions, and offer an explanation, albeit in your (or HIS) theory and terminology. Frankly, these are questions that plagued me for a long time but I choose to remain silent as I know I can never get a good answer. It only sours the relationship with my Christian friends. It is impossible to reach a consensus when people talk in different wavelengths.
The unsavoury remarks by Pastor Tan towards other
religions prompted me to think aloud. So unless and until we get a down-to-earth answer to my questions, let nobody cast stones at others who pursue their own faith, own belief, own imagination and own perception in life; however “ridiculous” it may appear. Let us live and let live. The last thing we want to see is a religious leader trying to shame or scare non-believers into submission, for intentions best known to himself.
Tomorrow is Chinese New Year. Wishing one and all a healthy and wealthy new year – this is one statement nobody will dispute, I hope.
Christians, just apologise. Don’t dig yourself into a deeper hole pointing us to your holy book. You are making yourself look ridiculous around here.
Ayoungsingaporean: Religions cannot be evolved. God’s Word must stay the same. “Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away” Matthew 24:35
If God’s word can evolve, then that is no assurance that i might be loved by Him yesterday but not today.
I see the reason why many ppl hate Christians, becos we preach the word of God. God has high standards for His people,which is not easy. By the way, God never promised an easy journey for Christians. Think abt Joseph who was sold to Eqypt as a slave by his brothers, Job who lost everything he had. But look at the promise at the end. Joeseph became the King and eveqn forgave his brothers, Job was restored and had twice of what he owned in the past. We tell people about God’s Word, and there will be ppl who are offended. Like homosexuality is a sin, without accepting Jesus Christ into our lives there is no salvation. Yea it does sounds harsh, but that’s the truth (whether you like it or not). I think Pastor Rony was negligent in his speech.He probably forgot that posting his video testimonies in his church’s website is a public place. In his moment to lighten the sermon and congregation, he forgot that people who doesn’t share his views (Buddhists/Taoists/atheists) will misinterprete and think he is ridiculing their religious beliefs. I do not think that was his intention. He has apologised sincerely and even the Buddists and Taoists have forgiven him. Why can’t we put this subject to a close?
Speak clearer not louder: I think I have been very clear in my statement. My point is no 2 homosexuals can conceive naturally. The word here is NATURALLY. If you still don’t get it, that’s because you’re not thinking clearly.
Questionmark: How can I/Christians convince you if you cannot be convinced to read the bible? I didn’t start reading the bible because i was convinced about Christ, but rather, i started reading the bible to know more abt this God and was convinced that He is real. You can only be convinced when God speaks to your heart through His Word.
James Tan and all Christians: “For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God” 1 Corinthians 1:18.
When God allows such kind of negative news to happen, He can always turn it around for the good. There might be people who are saved through the videos of Pastor Rony.
Ethernalty: I urge you and fellow Christians not to be over-zealous to say offensive words like burning in eternity. We should win souls for Christ in a gentle and loving manner.
SS: I so totally agree with you. TR is not a credible forum. The topic here is on Pastor Rony’s remarks on Buddhism. I see that TR correspondent is trying to bring unrelated topins here such as Pastor Rony’s views on homosexuality and the church’s leaked email? How is it leaked? TR, please don’t deceive those who can think logically.
@ayoungsingaporean:
You have no idea how relieved I am that someone out here has a similar way of thinking!
All I can say is; DITTO(x100000000000)
To elaborate on it further, think about how far the feminist movement has evolved. Female christians, think about it, you’d have to marry your rapists! (whose only penalty is to pay your father 50 shekels o’ silver) This is clearly in the bible!
I too believe that religions will evolve, into more wholesome, accepting ones. Don’t worry, no one is taking god away from you, nor your religion, just parts of the bible that are pretty mean, and I guess, imperfect religious leaders. Afterall, it has already happened several times before…
Politics n religion simply hard to mix, nobody in their human wisdom can be sure they are 100% right n no one can shut the mouth of God. If Pastor Rony stumbles, God’s is all about love and forgiveness. We all make mistakes, don’t condemn a good man over one mistake. Could people be using him a punching bag?
Hi i wish to clarify one thing first . Homosexuals are people who fall in love with their own sex(believe me i know) . We are different from transsexuals, who want to change to the opposite sex. Next , homosexuals do have a choice to be gay or straight and we choose gay because that is what we really want. I dont think its fair that us gays get discriminated against just because we choose to love the people we do. Can straight people even imagine being social outcasts or compared to animals just because of your sexuality? I have nothing against christians or any other religion but how am supposed to remain that way when so many christian pastors preach that homosexuality is a sin? IS LOVING OTHERS NOW A SIN?
The practice of homosexuality is offensive to many Singaporeans and remains illegal in Singapore. Everyone has a right to his opinion but you must be careful not to make comments that can be construed to promote homosexuality or cast an illegal activity in a positive light.
“Science without religion is lame. Religion without science is blind.” A Einstein
Conclusion: the joker pastor is blind.. and he is leading the blinds through blind faith.
It is a challenge to participate here given that sexuality is a complicated subject. Therefore, the focus is on just one sexual orientation (homosexuality – gay & lesbian) and not other sexual orientations or deviations such as bestiality, incest, paedophilia, etc. Also, sexual identities (transgender) are excluded for simplicity sake.
I prefer to look at Nature: Sex organs are for procreation. And natural sex is between real man and real woman, i.e. opposite gender and opposite sex organs. Any other sexual relationship (not between man & woman) or sex not involving the human sex organs are un-natural or perversion (not the same as wrong or criminal). Homosexuality is at two levels – 1) attraction to the same gender and/or 2) same-gender sex. Same-gender sex is a misnomer from the point of nature. That is, it is impossible for male-male (female-female) sex unless non-sex organs/sex-toys are involved.
Now for the moral part: Sex like sleep is a physiological need. To moralize sex would be like moralizing sleep. Can sleep be right or wrong? Similarly, must sex be within (heterosexual) marriage? Marriage is a social construct. Early men simply clubbed a woman and dragged her into the cave – where got time for ceremony! Is love necessary in the sexual act? Obviously not, so those advocating love in sex is just romancing! Half the time, the sexual act is due to biological urge, the other half due to desire, lust or fantasy. In short, sex the natural way is fine regardless of how the relationship is formed, and there is no right or wrong.
Is there anything wrong with same-gender attraction? A guy loves a guy and wants to live together like husband & wife (as in marriage). Marriage as mentioned earlier is a social construct that don’t make sense in moralizing. Hence, any two persons whatever sex they are can vow to live forever with one another.
Can same gender have sex? That is impossible from the point of nature. Therefore, if there is same-gender sex, it has to be ‘carnal’ using the mouth or anus or dildo. Can this kind of sexual act be moralised? What’s wrong here? The only thing ‘wrong’ is the wrong usage of the human organs! The mouth is for intake of food and the anus is for the expulsion of shit!
Here comes the moral/penal part: Carnal relationships or behaviours are considered unnatural, abnormal, disordered, sinful, hated by God, and perhaps worthy of criminalization. It is in the penal codes of some countries.
Consensual: Homosexual relationship and its sexual orientation are consensual. This being the case, there is no harm other than bodily abuse. Put it another way: it is a violation without a victim (unlike rape). So should homosexuality be considered ‘sinful’ or ‘criminalized’?
Back to LE pastor: Rony’s understanding of homosexuality or the lack of it was confined to the bible. Christians discuss homosexuality a lot, but actually “discuss” is “condemn”. Sex outside of a heterosexual marriage is sin (i.e. rebellion against God). Gay sex is deviation from God’s plan. Actually, you can hardly find Christ’s take on homosexuality and neither the scriptures except Romans 1:26-27. So, how Christians view homosexuality and/or homosexuals in a ‘sinful’ light is quite perplexing as it is not even in the 10 commandments.
Buddhism POV: The Buddhist view is guided by the 3rd Precept – refrain from sexual misconduct. It means not performing any sexual act that will cause harm or hurt to the parties in the relationship. The 7th commandment (shall not commit adultery) is similar to the 3rd Precept. Generally, Buddhists don’t see homosexual relationship as harmful or deviant, neither is same-gender sex.
///let me clarify on Tue, 16th Feb 2010 2:49 am
Next , homosexuals do have a choice to be gay or straight and we choose gay because that is what we really want///
Please clarify, again. . . . is it do or don’t?
This comment box is pro Gay. There is not freedom of speech here. Your non pro gay comments may be deleted.
85 despicable people are just trying to ride on the current anti-RT sentiment to promote their cause. Smart people, don’t fall for that. Don’t ever agree with gay behaviour or any form of perversion.
@David on Tue, 16th Feb 2010 11:16 am
///The practice of homosexuality is offensive to many Singaporeans and remains illegal in Singapore. Everyone has a right to his opinion but you must be careful not to make comments that can be construed to promote homosexuality or cast an illegal activity in a positive light.///
I don’t see homosexuality as a practice but more like either a conscious preference or an unwitting choice. Some say this preference/choice is driven by psychological factors or natural hormonal imbalance/abnormality. It is like someone suffering from obsessive compulsive behaviour (e.g. keep washing hands all the time).
In the past (or not so past or in ancient time), homosexuality was not well understood and therefore seen as a deviant behaviour. Some religions just conveniently label homosexual behaviour as sinful, caused by demon, etc. and has to be condemned. Just like people who have mental disorders were said to be possessed by demons! This view or belief is still held by misinformed, ignorant, self-righteous, prejudicial people of different religions – in modern 21st century!
Looking at homosexuality with an open-mind, consideration, compassion and understanding, to condemn or to say the behaviour is offensive is WRONG. Offensive to who? From the postings here it appears to be offensive to Christians. The Christians stand on homosexuality is well known. Buddhists don’t see the behaviour as offensive unless it caused harm.
I don’t think anyone would consciously ‘promote’ homosexuality. At most, they will not acknowledge, interfere, or comment, or pretend it does not exist or leave homosexuals to sort out their lives. Likewise, comments here in TR should not be seen as “casting an illegal activity in a positive light”. Carnal relationship is an offence in the penal codes but carnal acts have to be defined correctly. Incest, bestiality, sodomy, paedophilia are such. However, is oral and anal sex considered carnal if ‘practice’ by heterosexual? Why it is an offence/illegal only when performed by homosexuals?
@kenz ”Please clarify, again. . . . is it do or don’t?” The answer is do.we are not born this way.we choose to be gay because this is what we really want .(In case ur wondering, most of us turn gay due to experiences(eg being in a single-sex school) though not all from single-sex schools end up gay. And forced ‘conversion’ will only leave us miserable for the rest of our lives since homosexuals are who we really are and nothing change that. If anyone reading this happens to know a gay person, do not try to ‘convert’him/her as nothing good will come out of it. Be a compassionate human being and accept them for who they are. And please do not tell them they’re sinners cos “the bible said so!”. Rember that like any other religious scripture it is a product of man and wasnt sent down from heaven. p.s. i agree with Ex-Christian and im glad someone here actually has the maturity and intelligence not to fall into the pitfalls of stereotyping.
Why not let the full video of the pastor’s interview of ex-lebians n gays be seen by all and let them make their own decision if he has indeed done any wrong apart from the less than 100 folks who have been very offended and made police reports?
Hey! If you haven’t been to lighthouse, don’t make assumptions too!
HEALTH WARNING: MOST GAYs and Lesbians usually end up with STD and increasing numbers contracted HIV that leads to AIDS(NO CURE). Life is short, go do something worth while and meaningful than sticking it in manure holes or stuffs consider bio hazards.