Facebook group set up to demand “punishment” for Pastor Rony Tan
Written by Our Correspondent
Despite offering an apology to leaders of the Buddhist and Taoist communities in person and posting it on his website, many netizens remain unsatisfied that Lighthouse Evangelism Senior Pastor Rony Tan was “let off” the hook with only a slap on the wrist.
Pastor Tan had sparked an outcry lately with his remarks on Buddhism and Taoism during a church session which was widely circulated in cyberspace. He had since apologized after receiving a call from the Internal Security Department (ISD) two days ago.
Now, a Facebook entitled “Embrace Religious Harmony” been set up to demand “that Rony Tan be sufficiently punished for his religious insensitivity”. The creator is Jayakumar Poomi.
Based on some of the harsh comments posted on its wall, it is apparent that its members are not quite ready to forgive Pastor Tan.
Sabrina Chew wrote:
“The religious harmony the nation has painstakingly cultivated can be easily destroyed with 1 or 2 Rony Tan’s who seriously needs to be educated on what religion is and everyone’s right to their own religious beliefs.”
Bernard Lim added:
“…..he does not practise what he preaches. Instead of preaching the song of harmony in Singapore, he preaches the discordant noise of discord.”
Though the leaders of the two faiths have accepted Pastor Rony Tan’s apology, and wish to let the matter rest, some netizens felt the law should have dealt with him as it did to the three Chinese teenagers who were arrested for posting “racist” remarks on Facebook last week under the Sedition Act.
TR reader “one” is ready to forgive, but wants the police to apply the law fairly:
“Yes, it is about fairness in applying the Law. Netizens can forgive Paster Roy, but the police must apply the law fairly. Else you are giving wrong signal to the people, and this itself will cause unrest among the people. Remember, the 3 kids on the net may have said those racist remarks due to frustrations, and they are arrested; but Paster Roy’s act is a calculated one.”
“Atheism is the cure” is of the view that his apology is not sincere:
“Rony, sounds like your “apology” is Phoney! As an analogy…. U take $1 from someone and keep quiet until you’re found out and threatened with punishment. But then, u only apologise reluctantly but do NOT give back the $1 – is that a real apology? Rony has already caused great damage, yet perhaps he thinks he can get away by just issuing a simple apology? To show true sincerity, he should make and circulate videos of him apologising for EVERY insensitive remark he made in those videos (that means if he made 10 remarks, he should address and apologise for ALL 10 remarks, and not just make a blanket apology. Next, he should invite some Buddhist and Taoist priests to preach to his congregation for a full month, and allow them to rebut all those remarks he made.”
A Christian Francis expressed his disappointment at Pastor Tan’s remarks:
“As a Christian myself, I am saddened by you, Pastor Rony Tan and your preaching. Wrong path Rony, Wrong path. Looking at your expression, there is so much of hatred in you on other people believe. Certainly not in the Bible! You acted on your own and you do not represent us Christians. I’m not a Buddhist or Taoist yet I felt for them. I think you should really watch your own videos repeatedly, your body language and expression, think hard and ask yourself what you had gained. You had just killed the faith of potential Christians. To all those of you who laugh at his service, I see some serious faces too take a moment, think and pray for Rony and those he has misled.”
The irony is, the majority of the criticisms hurled at Pastor Tan come from self-professed atheists and even Christians themselves and not the Buddhists who have been calling for calm.
Bodhivimala implored Singaporeans to place religious harmony above their personal beliefs:
“This is a good lesson for all of us that we have to mindfully place peace and harmony above what we believe. Another important lesson for us, the Buddhists, is not to allow others take away our peace and happiness inside us. As Ajahn Brahm said, “if others attack the container, don’t let them attack its content as well”. Religious symbols and doctrines are parts of the container, while the wholesome quality such as moral virtues, calm and clear mind, and wisdom are part of the content. Salute to the many Buddhist leaders and followers who have put the matter into the right channel with spirit of religious harmony, and to Ven Kwang Sheng for exercising forgiveness towards one’s ignorance. May all beings be happy and at peace.”
This unfortunate incident is another timely reminder for Singaporeans not to take our racial and religious harmoney for granted as fault-lines still exist in our society deep beneath the veneer of stability and they can rupture at anytime.
It is also posing a headache for the authorities who must be seen as impartial in the application of the law and yet not aggravate the tense situation at the same time.
While many netizens are sympathetic towards the three Chinese youths, they have adopted a hardline stance this time against Pastor Tan probably because he is in a position of authority to really influence others.
As the few hundred comments posted here have illustrated, the social “unrest” emananting from Pastor Tan’s remarks have not only caused hurt and anguish to the religions involved, but to atheists and followers of other faiths as well.
More dialogues and interactions are needed between leaders of the different religions in Singapore for them to gain a better understanding of one another as well as to foster mutual trust and respect.
EDITORS’ NOTE:
Readers may encounter problems posting comments today. We are currently working on the problem and we appeal for your kind understanding and patience.
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many on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 11:10 am
The 3 kids were arrested by police but Pastor Rony was called up by the ISD.
When is it police and when is it ISD? What’s the different? Can someone enlighten me? Thanks.
Mike Soh on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 11:23 am
If saying sorry is just the punishment for Rony Tan, I really hope that one day Singapore will not become a ‘Sorry’ State.
sinner on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 11:24 am
With a purpose like, I’m afriad this fb group would only contribute to the division of the country more than reuniting the society after the damage done.
Mister Toe on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 11:52 am
Rony Tan on Ch 5 News: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3W4N58aXX-8
Richard Seow on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 12:04 pm
I once went to a Mandarin-speaking-Church at Ang Mo Kio with 2 friends and was splitted into three separate groups. Me with a senior group, my female friend to another grouping and our younger male friend to another grouping. They do this at most churches, I stopped going to that AMK church after a visit by a couple who leads my grouping, when they found out that I was practicing Qigong, they told me it was taboo as a Christian to do that.
There are some Christians out there who consider it taboo when stepping into Chinese Temple. I once a one day visit to Malacca for a Chinese-speaking Christian running a Seniors Centre in Bedok South, she specially requested that visits to Chinese Temples is taboo. To her its a no no even after I told her that a visit to historical Malacca, the Sam Poh Kong Temple is a must see place to visit to know about the history of Malacca.
For me, I have no qualms about visiting any kind of places of worship. I did experience refusal to be allowed to enter Muslim Mosques.
This Christian female friend who brought me to that AMK Church also told me that as Christian, it’s taboo to send her “QongXiFattChoy” message during Lunar New Year.
I always tell my Christian friends they cannot die die believe only in Christianity. they must also try to know about other religions and their beliefs and ways of practices
I have been to Lighthouse at Tampines, I have seen and notice that some of the pastors when they preach, the way they goes into trances are comparable to the “tangkis” at Chinese temples. Some adults during prayer session lies on the floor and their children looks bewildered.
Class 95 on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 12:06 pm
The Moderates Stance
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=291543027665
Reform party Chairman got join
Jim on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 12:19 pm
Hi All,
Indeed, it seems unfair regarding the punishment meted out to Rony Tan. In fact I do not see any punishment to him at all other than the immense publicity for him! I do not wish to put the word “Pastor” in front of him.
Let us compare:
The 3 youths seems to be immature in thinking, probably due to lack of proper parental guidance. They get easily swayed by aggressive opinions but they will likely regret their actions when they grow older or start to work.
Some suitable counselling might be enough to let them know the importance of racial harmony and tolerance. Maybe it might be good if they need to report regularly to Police for certain period or do some community work.
Whereas Rony Tan is already over his fifties and leads a group of more than 10,000 people. There is almost no way to reform his deep-seated thinking or personal philosophy now. He has 2 kids and I sincerely hope they have not turned into litle Rony Tans.
I am really devastated to hear the audience laughing at his distasteful jokes. The fact that his group agreed with him is the most frightening part that came out from this incident. We have to see the whole picture, and ISD should have been able to see it but somehow they failed to do so! That is, ISD needs to deal with 12,000 people not just one Rony Tan.
By meting a strong punishment to Rony Tan, the 12,000 members will definitely be more “humble” in front of people of other faiths.
sinner on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 12:54 pm
Jim,
I’m sure ISD saw the whole picture and probably more wholly than what you saw. They are looking at the stablilty and balance within the country and not just the 12,000 members.
If a person is unrepentful, he will commit the same mistake again and very soon. With this promise that he will not do it again. I’m sure ISD will come down very hard then.
As for the 12,000. I’m sure ISD knows what to do too.
blackfeline on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 12:58 pm
sang chai sang chai..to err is human..to forgive is divine!
IMPARTIAL on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 12:59 pm
Come on guys, Pastor Tan had erred and made a great mistake. He has apologised to all and our Buddhist leaders have accepted it. The authorities have already stepped in.
If the flames continue burning the fault lies with TR for its continuous flow of presenting threads after threads which serve no other purpose than already had been achieved, but only to fan the flames even more. This is not responsible reporting.
Please call it a day here and move on.
JUST4FUN on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 1:00 pm
MANY are going to join the pastor , as he is not punish by the laws, and their god have done him the most forgiving sins. Singapore are going into another dark age again, when some people can do what he wanted, and just say sorry, many of oldies people say, sorry no cure, it only made that worst only. SINGAPORE is really a FINE place.
sudhamma on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 1:06 pm
A blogger suggested that Lighthouse should invite Buddhist monks and Taoist priests to give a month lecture to their members. Taoism in its populist form (Southern tradition) may present the Chinese aspects of God’s Heaven and in some way paralleled Christian beliefs. However, Taoism as a practice in the Northern tradition will be interesting to Christians.
On the other hand, Buddhism and in particular, the Theravada tradition runs counter to any theistic beliefs. The beginning and end of Buddhism and Christianity are poles apart. There is no common ground. It will be a field day for Christians trying to understand how rebirth and nibbana (nirvana) could be held so dearly by Buddhists when there is no Godhead to will His command and judgement.
Coming to Pastor Rony Tan who was believed to be once a Buddhist (and a fervent one I was told), the State need to exercise not only a balance approach (whatever that means) but seriously take him to task and not just letting him off with a warning. The State must be seen to exercise the law with equality and thus persecute him under our present laws.
The pastor had made disparaging remarks not only to his audience in the church but had spread to the general public via the Net. This is serious. Imagine the nasty consequences if this happens in another country where Buddhism or Taoism is the main religion or if when the Singaporean society are no longer that unified and fissures are quite open . He may have blood on his hands. I am surprised that the Police did not act
to bring him to task.
claude tnt on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 1:07 pm
I’m quite sure that the person leading this campaign is not a Buddhist, any good Buddhist will have nothing to do with all this HATE generating facebook “punishment” especially after the pastor had apologized!
wpw on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 1:08 pm
Everybody make mistake.
Please name one who does not.
Forgiveness was taught in all believes.
So let’s practice that.
Suggestion on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 1:10 pm
What rubbish? To let him go so easily. I am not only devastated. I am very sad that nothing is done. And that the authority has double standard. Is it because he has better quote “Backing Mountain”. Can anyone provide info.
MV on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 1:37 pm
***
With a purpose like, I’m afriad this fb group would only contribute to the division of the country more than reuniting the society after the damage done.
***
Agreed. To be honest, it’s plain stupid to inflame further emotions by stoking the issue. Still lambasting people even after they have publicly repented? THAT’S sending a wrong signal to our nation’s children that it’s not OK to learn from mistakes. Leads to our nation ending up cultivating a nation of unforgiving snobs.
Quite hypocritical really, putting that pastor down for making insensitive divisive remarks, then doing the same thing themselves. After painstaking building of harmonious relations and “embracing religious (and racial) harmony”, now people want to build divisions by criticizing. Tsk!
PS. NOBODY will ever condone what Rony did, and neither do I. But still, the motives of those who still lambast him, are highly questionable; most likely, if caught in the same situation, they will NOT apologize. And oh, I apologize if I sound like I’m criticizing and damaging relations between Singaporeans too, but this has to be said.
forest on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 1:39 pm
IMPARTIAL on 10 Feb 12:59 pm
Are we saying that in future if someone deliberately going all out to denigrate other religions and get caught would just need to issue a statement of apology, and he would not be subjected to the law?
You call this impartial?
Wenk Kon Sin on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 2:21 pm
I fear that if he arrested, his followers may not be happy causing social unrest.
The 3 kids won’t cause social unrest i think. but i may be wrong.
If he gets away with only verbal warning, would this set a precedence for other religious preachers to preach the same thingies thinking they could use him as role model and can get away with slip of tongue?
2centsworths on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 2:22 pm
This episode has highlighted many things and brought forth many important observation
1)The internet is a very potent medium which can be used to incite truth but on the other hand also chaos
2)People want justice yet see not the irony of their judgement.
I quote Plato – Republic , part 7 , section 7 that we cannot always follow our senses and that there is a difference between the appearance of things and their substance.
Thus while we can all identify a just action, only the educated* know what justice is.
*I do not for the matter imply that anyone is uneducated but leave the interpretation of my statement to your understanding
3)Thinning the social fabric of racial harmony that we hold so dear to our heart. The call for restraint signify the rationality of our leaders for this is a very sensitive issue, which if not dealt properly could further escalate into a divide of the country. We have seen and learnt from our past mistakes about racial riots and it is time to start thinking whether we should continue to fan the flames
It is your choice
C&E on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 2:27 pm
Let the “Cause & Effect” law takes its course
i.e. RONY TAN / ISD.
Highfalutin on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 2:42 pm
There is already a precedence for the authorities to act. Remeber the Christian pastors who insult Islam right here in Singapore?
http://ridzwandotcom.blogspot.com/2009/06/spread-his-words.html
They were jailed. This is the precedent. Why is the law not dutifully applied right here? I think the authorities owe us an explanation.
Rainnix on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 2:47 pm
“I am really devastated to hear the audience laughing at his distasteful jokes. The fact that his group agreed with him is the most frightening part that came out from this incident. We have to see the whole picture, and ISD should have been able to see it but somehow they failed to do so! That is, ISD needs to deal with 12,000 people not just one Rony Tan.”
The ill-informed 12,000 people in the Lighthouse church is a worry. Pastor Rony Tan must invite the leaders of the Taoist and Buddhist to give a talk on their religion. But why stop at there? The Hindus and the Muslims leaders must be invited as well.
Law must be applied fairly to both Pastor Rony Tan and the 3 teenagers. If not, it will give a impression to others that the govt practice “religion favoritism” and people will convert to Christianity just to play safe.
No one will ever want a situation that Christians will vote for a particular party and non-Christians to vote for another.
peaceforall on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 2:55 pm
Out of this official “conclusion”, I am very impressed with ow both Singapore Buddhist Federation and Singapore’s Islamic Council responses. Their leaders exhibit tolerance and clarity which is critical to Singapore’s civil existence.
Yet,aside from that Pastor’s half-hearted “apology”, I have yet to read or hear any statements form other church group.
This is worrying.
native singaporeans on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 2:59 pm
It seems that law in singapore apply differently with different people.
sturmtruppen on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 3:05 pm
I will only accept Rony Tan apology ONLY when he steps down from “his” Church and Pastorship.
That is the ONLY acceptable outcome.
Transparent on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 3:13 pm
As a practicing Christian for more than 40 years, I would say that Pastor Rony Tan made a bad mistake.
Pastor Rony Tan was trying to bring across the Bible teachings with regards to this life and the next-life in connection with what happens after death. He should have just given a didactic treatment of the doctrines concerned instead of calling out an ex-monk and an ex-monk to interview.
Not only is the interview method basically flawed – you see, any other religions can also find ex-christians and get them to say some unflavorable things about the Bible and Christianity – but that approach does’nt prove anything. Pastor Rony was also wrong to belittle those religions publicly even if it is within a church setting.
However, my plea is that everyone makes silly mistakes once a while. So long as he has apologized and it is not repeated again, I think we should move forwards and let the matter rest.
sturmtruppen on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 3:14 pm
Since the Gov’t and ISD can “forgive” him.
Since other “insulted” religions can “forgive” him.
Since other Christian faiths are keeping quiet thus indirectly “forgive” him.
Can Rony Tan “forgive” himself also by continuing to hold on to his pastorship after his poisonious remarks…he should do the right thing by stepping down in full recognition of the wrongs he has done to other religions and making others in his congregation to laugh at other believers faith and beliefs of their own religion.
Can he do this…or sorry is enough for creating falsehoods of other religions and making fun out of them by putting it on their own website for general public consumption…not only in singapore but to the world in general.
Do you see other religious leaders of Taoism and Buddhist faith putting out falsehoods and making fun of other peoples faith…do you see such a thing? No right? So what gives this “pastor” rony tan the bleeding rights to rubbish other peoples faith. What fraking rights? Backing by some higher up is it…so can be arrogant and push his luck is it? Sick!! It is sick and degrading!!!
Sad.
bridezilla on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 3:35 pm
shouldn’t this case be under police? why do we need to use the ISD which is backed by the ISA?
WearyTrueBlueSingaporean on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 4:03 pm
Kids kena caught, adults kena interview.
Hello, wake up. Adults should be more responsible for their actions than kids.
One interview by ISD case close?
It doesn’t make sense.
zero on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 4:05 pm
to sturmtruppen
you suggested the pastor should resign?
But how he gonna find another job? A theology degree can’t get very far in a basically secular singapore, i think.
My view is that it is all over, let him alone.
I think as long as apology is there let them alone.
That means, please wind back the clock, the police should also, not have arrested the 3 kids, the police also should not hve jailed the christian couple for 8 weeks, all of them were remorseful just like pastor tan. For the sake of justice, it is necessary to set everything back to zero, the State should pay money back to the people (the 3 kids and also the couple who were jailed) who were overly punished as a form of compensation. This is the opposite of what some people say, put the pastor behind bars. It may sound absurd, but i am arguing purel from logic, because justice must be deemed to be fair regardless of social standing of the defendant.
zero
rainforest on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 4:07 pm
TR,
Regarding the online poll on this website:
>> Do you accept Pastor Rony Tan’s apology?
>> o Yes: let’s forgive him and move on
>> o No: he should be prosecuted and punished
The choices are not mutually exclusive, and hence the results of the poll may not be conclusive.
There are some who will accept Rony Tan’s apology, but at the same time think that the law should be applied fairly towards his action.
In my view, he could be let off with a warning if he did it in the heat of the moment, or he is ignorant of his action. However those are not the case. The videos showed that his act is deliberate and calculated; and furthermore, he is a religious leader. If that is not punished under the law, we might as well not have that sedition law.
Suggestion on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 4:20 pm
Chinese has a saying.
When the prince commit a crime, his punishment should be the same as ordinary people.
move on on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 4:33 pm
Let’s move on and let this be a closure……..our greatest enemy
is the papaya monkeys. Let’s remain focus and get ready to garner all the supports we can and VOTE OUT THE PAP! before WE become extinct!
Jimmy Teo_the fortune teller on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 4:34 pm
Actually the Attorney-General Chambers can ask for the police to arrest Roney and charge him for sedition, considering the outcry of the many Singaporeans.
If the police does not act decisively, and apply the law fairly, it will inadvently cost the PAP government votes in the coming elections.
Believe me, this is not something you can sweep under the carpet.
Harry TomDick on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 4:50 pm
Viewed in the light of the so recent harsh treatment of the three obviously immature teenagers, it is understandable that so many have ‘cried foul’ in terms of fair treatment of that pastor.
I think the reason why this matter is receiving so much public attention is the fact that this has in fact been a long-standing problem that has been plagueing non-Christians for quite some time, and in which this Pastor Rony (and the supporting jeering attitude of his audience) incident serves as a catalyst to the widespread anger which ensued.
Let’s face it, this is a problem which is not so easily swept away by a mere apology. I too at first felt that it is good to forgive and forget the matter, especially after the pastor has apparently shown great remorse, as felt by that Taoist official he met, but after reading more and more calls for sterner punishment to be meted out, I do think that an active deterence is needed at least to serve as a preventive measure to prevent or minimise potential future outbursts.
In my view, this whole episode has arisen purely due to ignorance, chosen or otherwise, of the substance and teachings of other faiths.
But to be ignorant is itself like being a ‘bull let loose in a chinaware shop’, or a fool let loose in Einstein’s library.
observer on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 5:05 pm
What useful purpose would punishing (be it arresting or imprisoning or fining) Rony Tan serve?
Why would the authorities risk stirring up a nest of hornets, when a neater and simpler solution would suffice – i.e. having the culprit apologise publicly to the representatives of the victims AND getting the representatives to publicly accept the apology?
As long as the anonymous netizens are not seen as having the ability to pose any real threat to the well-being of the nation (and the government), they can continue to make as much noise as they want, for as long as they want, I doubt any further action will be taken by the government.
Rony Tan, on a personal front, if he is bothered by all the comments, might want to do something about it to placate the vocal crowd.
But as far as the government is concerned, it has done it’s part. To do beyond what it has already been done (through the ISD) will probably be counter-productive to its key objectives.
Matthew on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 5:10 pm
To MPARTIAL on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 12:59 pm
Please tell it to the parents of the 3 kids who are arrested.. why they can’t just apologies and move on like Rony Tan? Because the are not well connected as he does?
cy on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 5:16 pm
观自在菩萨，行深般若波罗蜜多时，照见五蕴皆空，度一切苦厄。舍利子，色不异空，空不异色，色即是空，空即是色，受想行识，亦复如是。舍利子，是诸法空相，不生不灭， 不垢不净，不增不减。是故空中无色，无受想行识，无眼耳鼻舌身意，无色声香味触法，无眼界，乃至无意识界，无无明，亦无无明尽，乃至无老死，亦无老死尽。无苦集灭道，无智亦无得，以无所得故。菩提萨埵，依般若波罗蜜多故，心无挂碍，无挂碍故，无有恐怖，远离颠倒梦想，究竟涅槃。三世诸佛，依般若波罗蜜多故，得阿耨多罗三藐三菩提。故知般若波罗蜜多是大神咒，是大明咒，是无上咒，是无等等咒，能除一切苦，真实不虚。故说般若波罗蜜多咒，即说咒曰：揭谛揭谛，波罗揭谛，波罗僧揭谛，菩提娑婆诃
we should forgive but should we ask for fairness too? yes,it is indeed unfair but can we wind back the clock? i hope ISD or police will not be invovled in future cases unless there’s a break in violence. let singaporeans sort it out themselves, everyone should acquire the wisdom of tolerance w/o resorting to calling in the authorities.
this rony tan incident is indeed thought-provoking.
agnostic on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 5:23 pm
I think we need a JUSTICE BAO in Singapore.
He is famous for his uncompromising stance against corruption among the government officials at the time. He upheld justice and refused to yield to higher powers including the Emperor’s Father.
let our children learn on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 5:39 pm
MV on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 1:37 pm
“THAT’S sending a wrong signal to our nation’s children that it’s not OK to learn from mistakes.”
Children are different from adults, especially those adults whom we look upon as role models. Children are growing and adults are grown up (supposedly).
Of course, it’s OK to learn from mistakes. It is precisely the objective that punishment must fit the offense so that people will learn. Else, you just need to profusely say ’sorry’ after knowing that you have made the wrong ‘bet’ & that you probably cannot get away with it.
Do you want to let you children learn that he can always get away with just by saying ’sorry’ where the upside for doing some serious wrong is a real bargain or so much better that it is well worth the risk than the downside for getting caught (just by saying sorry).
Bernard Neo on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 6:02 pm
Is our country having 2 sets of justice system? 1 for previledged to apologise and close case. The other to punish ordinary folks and jail them.
hidden orchid on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 6:33 pm
For a person who denigrates Buddhism which preaches reincarnation, this shallow thinking and egoistic individual with a very ‘thick skin’ to call himself a pastor sure has a crude and conflicting personality. The odd love song ironically named ‘ a thousand lifetimes’ best illustrates.
Punished or not, I am sure ‘Pastor’ Tan will need to be heedful that in Christian teachings, the father’s sins can be inherited by the children in more ways than one.
Leong Kam Seng on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 6:41 pm
Pastor Rony is just speaking the truth and unfortunately the truth hurts. Have you not heard of this saying. But the Bible says, the Truth will set you free. So please do not belittle a servant of God and add sin to your life
新加坡怒漢 on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 6:49 pm
“There is already a precedence for the authorities to act. Remember the Christian pastors who insult Islam right here in Singapore?”
Why when christian pastor insulted Buddhist then no punishment????
Because authority scared muslim??? and also buddhists more torolent????
what a discrimination???
PAP Member on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 7:23 pm
Sigh….hate all these religious or race issues.
Can’t we just concentrate on FT or PAP bashing…it’s more fun.
sudhamma on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 7:30 pm
Well, I had at last seen one video in which he “interviewed” a lady, who supposedly was a defrocked Buddhist nun. The comments that Rony Tan made showed his absolute ignorance about rebirth (Buddhists actually do not subscribe to the notion of reincarnation, and there are major differences between rebirth and reincarnation), and about past lives. Yes, he did not read deeply into Buddhism nor that lady truly understood what Buddhism is all about. Its a pity that in his eagerness to show the superiority of his faith he chosed the path of deception and misguiding his flock. I suppose also that such deception is going on in other churches as well (but perhaps in varying intensity?); otherwise I do not see how Christians generally (I am referring to those that I had came across)have a misguided understanding and a terrible misconception of Buddhism. Its a dangerous game that Rony Tan is playing.
agnostic on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 8:20 pm
Leong Kam Seng on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 6:41 pm
“Pastor Rony is just speaking the truth and unfortunately the truth hurts. Have you not heard of this saying. But the Bible says, the Truth will set you free. So please do not belittle a servant of God and add sin to your life”
If Rony speaks the truth than he apologise for what?
as on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 9:59 pm
I agreed with Jimmy Teo, GE is the only way. This twit pastor has his GOD behind him, that’s why he is not charged in court.
Sorry Sir! on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 10:54 pm
The last i know, ignorance is not an excuse in Singapre. What! You mean they have to “tell” those Pastor wannabes that this is not right? It tells us so much about this Rony Tan. How old is he? 5yrs old? Jiak Liao Bee! Tart Sai Lai!
Fiona Tan on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 11:09 pm
To : agnostic
I fully agree with what Leong Kam Seng said about Pastor Rony SPEAKING THE TRUTH AND THE TRUTH HURTS.
Pastor swallowed the humble pie and apologised to preserve societal harmony which is what the Christian faith taught.
Apologising doesn’t mean he has change his stand on what the truth is.
People who are missing out on The Truth are missing out many of God’s Blessings in life and life-after-death….
ah kow on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 11:21 pm
Respect for others is like the most basic level of teaching. If a primary 6 student fail a primary 1 test, he will be quite “pai say”. If the school principal also fail the same test, is a joke.
mambo on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 11:29 pm
In a normal situation, one would expect an adult to be taken to task for his indiscretion and the laws be more lenient on the juveniles. Sadly, this is not the case for this particular incident.
I would have doubled the normal punishment for Pastor Rony Tan because he is a man of the ministry, he is educated and underwent many years of Christian doctrines and teachings, in a trusted position to influence and misled his followers, and clearly not an idiot. Either Rony was not on the mailing list of the National Council of Churches and did not receive the advisory in 2008 to “not to denounce other religions” even as they evangelise, or he simply chose to ignore it completely.
I am very assured by DPM Wong that being investigated by ISD “is not less serious than getting investigated by the Police” but the outcome does not commensurate with the seriousness of the offence committed. In addition to using the internet like the kids, Rony actually did it live in front of a congregation, to laughters and claps. The video clip was found on the church’s website and available on Youtube which is more accessible than Facebook. The damage is even more extensive but Rony has “realised his mistake”, DPM Wong is “glad” and everyone lives happily even after?
Please leave the leaders of the other religions out of this. What do we expect them to say, other than nice pleasantries? Anything else would entitle them a Police/ISD lucky draw.
Rony should be taken to task for his action. A loud and clear message must be sent to everyone in similar capacity that they have a very big responsibility to help maintain our country’s racial and religious harmony. Don’t abuse it!
agnostic on Thu, 11th Feb 2010 12:50 am
Fiona Tan on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 11:09 pm
So you mean Rony is not sincere when he apologised? Maybe you are right but more likely the reason he apologised is becos he chicken out and he is afraid and very afraid of going to jail or get spat and beaten up by ppl he offended. That may be the truth and yes, the truth hurts.
CNY bigger Ang Pao for Rony on Thu, 11th Feb 2010 1:03 am
@agnostic
What Rony sheeps said is quite correct. Rony only apologize for being insensitive but that does not mean it UNTRUE. So all this apology is nothing more than a David Copperfield trick. They got free advertisement some more. No shame at all. Crazy people.
For this reason Rony should be taken to task to prevent others copy cat him and get away lightly. Off course Rony would not be so stupid to do it again. One call from ISD his shit boiling la
A leopard will never change its spot. Without this kind of thing the whole church cannot survive long. But to do the world full gullible ignorant people.
Like local saying Crazy person can be cured but no medicine can cure Stupid person.
CNY bigger Ang Pao for Rony on Thu, 11th Feb 2010 1:05 am
@agnostic
What Rony sheeps said is quite correct. Rony only apologize for being insensitive but that does not mean it UNTRUE. So all this apology is nothing more than a David Copperfield trick. They got free advertisement some more. No shame at all. Crazy people.
For this reason Rony should be taken to task to prevent others copy cat him and get away lightly. Off course Rony would not be so stupid to do it again. One call from ISD his shit boiling la
A leopard will never change its spot. Without this kind of thing the whole church cannot survive long. But to do the world full gullible ignorant people.
Like local saying Crazy person can be cured but no medicine can cure Stupid person.
Fiona Tan on Thu, 11th Feb 2010 11:53 am
Matthew 7:13,14 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.”
agnostic on Thu, 11th Feb 2010 12:33 pm
Hi Fiona,
Recommend you to read:
You can find some in our local library.
1. Evolution: What the Fossils Say and Why It Matter
2. Letter to A Christian Nation
3. God Is Not Great: How Religion Poisons Everything
4. The God Delusion
5. Losing Faith in Faith: From Preacher to Atheist
Fiona Tan on Thu, 11th Feb 2010 2:00 pm
There’s no doubt that the apology is sincere and it is done for the sake of peace and harmony.
Pastor Rony is a very kind and compassionate man who touched many lives and God works countless miracles through him and healed the sick including people with terminal diseases.
Hi agnostic,
I Know my God/Jesus is Real having experienced him personally. The devil who is here to Deceive is also Real.
sturmtruppen on Thu, 11th Feb 2010 4:02 pm
To zero,
But how about his “jokes” and “funnies” at his congregations where his followers are laughing away in jest with him…
After leaving “his” church, how many of his followers will think and act out the beliefs that other folks religions and faiths are just jokes?
So he say sorry and he can still keep his position…
okay fine, can the ISD now demand the 3 kids who make racist remarks apologized and be given a warning too.
Talk about double standards.
Okay fine, i accept his apology. I end it here then with disappointment.
Good day to all : (
sturmtruppen on Thu, 11th Feb 2010 4:34 pm
To all defenders of the “virtues” and “Character” of “Pastor” Rony Tan,
Fine, the “gentleman” a public figure and supposely an adult has apologized. [Too bad about the other 3 ignorant youths who are arrested and will face legal proceedings while their parents will face additional financial pains].
Nevermind, his “laughing” followers who left “his” church thinking [we will never know how many of them] that other respected folks faiths and religions are a “joke”…and out of this we will never know how many will act out indescretely in “mirth” forthwith.
Nevermind, if his apology included “souls”….we take it as he meant all souls for all different religions.
Nevermind, that his public videos by making “fun” of buddhism and taoism has indirectly affected other christian faiths, branches of Islam and other peoples religions world wide.
Yes, forgive but i will be unable to forget this.
Men show their characters in nothing more clearly than in what they think laughable. Johann Wolfgang von Goethe (1749 – 1832)
I won’t take my religion from any man who never works except with his mouth. Carl Sandburg (1878 – 1967)
Say nothing of my religion. It is known to God and myself alone. Its evidence before the world is to be sought in my life: if it has been honest and dutiful to society the religion which has regulated it cannot be a bad one. Thomas Jefferson (1743 – 1826)
Good day to all.
ronypony on Thu, 11th Feb 2010 8:15 pm
Oh fiona…so your god heal many with diseases? but he won’t heal amputees. Why does your god have prejudice against amputees? Grow up. It is people like you who make pastors like Rony Tan rich and continue to do acts like this to attract devotees $$.
Fiona Tan on Thu, 11th Feb 2010 8:55 pm
Hi ronypony, I hope our Gracious God will touch you one day.
God Bless you..
sighface on Thu, 11th Feb 2010 9:07 pm
@ Fiona Tan (& Leong Kam Seng):
sigh. this is why it’s hard to have a proper conversation with you people without actually having to feel exasperated.
regardless of your religious inclinations and beliefs, there is something called ‘respect’, and clearly, pastor rony tan failed spectacularly in that department, as evidenced by his seditious sermon. this is a multi-racial, multi-religious society. sowing religious discord will not be tolerated.
ps: oh, and fiona, i am interested to know if pastor rony tan has ever healed a homosexual afflicted with HIV?
asdasd on Thu, 11th Feb 2010 9:31 pm
CMON GUYS STOP THE FLAMING FOR GOD SAKE. THE MAN ALREADY APOLOGISED SO WTF YOU GUYS KEEP FLAMING FOR? YOU GUYS TALK ABT MATURITY ETC ETC THEN JUST LEAVE THIS MATTER TO REST INSTEAD OF BLABBERING ON AND ON. IT GOES TO SHOW YOUR OWN UPBRINGING. DISGRACE. GET THE FUCK OFF FROM FLAMING.
asdasd on Thu, 11th Feb 2010 9:35 pm
YOU GUYS TALK ABT RACIAL HARMONY, BLA BLA. BUT THE ACT OF YOU GUYS CRITISIZING PASTOR RONY, ISSIT RACIAL HARMONY? DONT FARKING CONTRADICT LA. DON PUT SOMEONE DOWN WHEN U ARE IN FACT NOW PUTTING HIM DOWN EVEN AFTER HE APOLOGISES.
PEOPLE. LETS BE GRACIOUS TO HAVE RACIAL HARMONY IN SINGAPORE. SO DON ACT LIKE KIDS AND WHINE. JUST MOVE ON. CANT STAND ALL OF U HYPOCRITES.
FreeThinker on Thu, 11th Feb 2010 10:11 pm
@Fiona Tan
[I Know my God/Jesus is Real having experienced him personally. The devil who is here to Deceive is also Real.]
There you go again. Are you implying those who don’t see your way are DEVIL??
Btw if your Pastor is telling the TRUTH why did he chicken out and apologize.
To me, you have been deceived and I think is Real too.
Trust those who is seeking TRUTH, not those who claimed to have found it – by don’t know who forgotten already.
Come down to Earth Fiona.
headhunter on Thu, 11th Feb 2010 10:20 pm
@fiona, whoaaa! i start to wonder if you are hired to defend him. may i know what are your charges per reply, really would want to put such talent to great use.
sighface on Thu, 11th Feb 2010 11:11 pm
@ asdasd:
people are just outraged that he got away with just an apology, given his role as a spiritual leader with the ability to influence thousands. if you’ve noticed, in comparison with the three teens who recently got charged with sedition for posting racist comments on facebook, rony tan’s case received a lot more media coverage. hence, it is not surprising that netizens have poured out their sentiments about the issue online. this will die down eventually, but not before everyone has had a chance to air their views.
by the way, people are criticising rony tan’s behaviour, not his religious inclinations. respect is something very basic, and as a pastor, he ought to have made a better judgement call with regards to that sermon.
German Guy on Fri, 12th Feb 2010 1:12 am
After i saw the video clip, i’m so disapointed that this kind of issue, also happened in Singapore. I’m a Taoist, and i also have few close friends who are Christian as well. But we always respects each other’s religion, as a family. We are racial harmony country, so we really can’t affort to allow this to happen again, as it may cause some riot issue.
I hope that ISD will really do something about it, because if this kind of issue happen again, the next person might thought that, by a simply apologises is good enough to cover everything. Then what is the purpose of having rules & regulation or laws in Singapore. “If you don’t know how to respects others, then you don’t deserve the respects”.
aah-haa on Fri, 12th Feb 2010 2:26 pm
Leong Kam Seng on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 6:41 pm
“Pastor Rony is just speaking the truth and unfortunately the truth hurts. Have you not heard of this saying. But the Bible says, the Truth will set you free. So please do not belittle a servant of God and add sin to your life”
Fiona Tan on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 11:09 pm
“I fully agree with what Leong Kam Seng said about Pastor Rony SPEAKING THE TRUTH AND THE TRUTH HURTS.
Pastor swallowed the humble pie and apologised to preserve societal harmony which is what the Christian faith taught.
Apologising doesn’t mean he has change his stand on what the truth is.
People who are missing out on The Truth are missing out many of God’s Blessings in life and life-after-death….”
To Leong KS – what is the Truth? Please enunciate this further and not simply quote the scriptures. Do know that any Hairy Crab can also pinch a verse out of the bible.
To Fiona Tan – so Rony’s apology was to preserve harmony not to change his stand. What was his stand? And did you get the facts right?
And what are the ‘blessings’ people are missing? And why these ‘blessings’ are not for people who missed ‘The Truth’. What is ‘The Truth’?
WeiHan on Sat, 13th Feb 2010 2:44 pm
The couple who has distributed seditious materials to muslims has been charged with the seditious law. Why should Rony be let off in this case? It is about fairness in the application of the law. This is the key point.
peace on Sat, 13th Feb 2010 2:58 pm
Ronny Tan is a pastor of a church, he should think twice before even open his mouth in public/ delivering his sermon and he also had the audacious to video tape the whole saga and made it to thee public’s consumption. I am a free thinker but i respect the believe and religious of my fellow citizens because understanding of our country is make up of diverse individuals and to any negative comments of our our countrymen’s religious matter will shake the core foundation of our society which base on justice and equality regardless of our races, languages and religious.
Mr Ronny Tan, please refer and recites our Pleadge again even in your sleep; well, hope you can still sleep like a baby. Your comment are totally naive and unfounded.
CNY on Sat, 13th Feb 2010 3:01 pm
To demostrate his sincerity in his apology and appease the hurt sentiments of all Buddhists and Taoist in a multi-religious and races in Singapore,
1) Rony and his Lighthouse church should publish a full-page apology to all Buddhist, Taoists and freethinker and anyone he offended with his stupid sermons in Straits Times, Zaobao, Wanbao, national using their rich church funds instead of getting a free ride on ST free coverage of his cheap and cowardly apology.
2) Bring that 2 dim-witted actor and actress of his church -Joseph and that ex-nun on stage with Rony again and do another staged sermon before his congregation on coming Sunday to openly and unreservingly repent for their stupid actions.
Faiing which, this shows that a leopard will not change the spots, a tiger will not change its stripes either, the ISD should charge him under the law of sedition to send a strong message to all Singaporeans that racial and religious harmony is a top priority in a small country like us.
Buddhists and Taoists are already very tolerant people, always stomaching insults hurled by zealous unthinking Christians like Rony. I cannot imagine if another stupid pastor as stupid as Rony dare to bring a ex-muslim on stage and ridicule Islam in front of his church and see what will be the consequences by Muslims in SE Asia. Do you wish to see bombs flung into the church grounds like in Malaysia recently?
Rony, if you are reading this, think very hard 3 times before you talk. Check your facts and logic right and your intentions, heart and brain first before you shoot off your mouth in front of your flock of unthinking sheep who laughed. However, I am sure you truly had a practical lesson on bad karma created by your past stupid thoughts, actions and speech (karma is an ancient Sankrit word meaning stored causes and effects through thoughts, actions, speech). Hence as a result, you will become more enlightened from your karmic retributions (Nirvana-means Perfect Enlightenment). Congrats that you will be become more enlightened as a result of the whole episode and teach other wannabe stupid religious leaders in training like you.
Insult others and in turn you will be insulted.
Praise the goodness in others and in turn you will be praised.
Do good to others and others will do good to you too.
Do bad to others, be prepared to see your karmic retributions unfolding. No one can escape the Law of Causes and Effects, not even Buddha or Jesus. It is entirely myth that only christians can escape from their sins and their karmic retribution by any cheap apology.
silence on Wed, 17th Feb 2010 1:43 pm
I find it ironic that the people who demands justice through punishment are so-called the socially harmonious ones. What do you call a genuine apology? Does bowing suffice or does he need to bleed to soothe the hurt in the division made? Put yourselves in other’s shoes before coming hard on them.
These disparaging remarks made are just aggravating the harmonious society many have been trying to protect. Have some restrain and forgiveness in your hearts. If he truly made any inappropriate comment again, the law will see to it.
As for the Christians whom are still offended by Pastor Rony’s comments after his apology, kindly recall you are to love your brothers as yourselves. Tearing down your spiritual brethren only goes to expose how “spiritual” one truly is before the world. Thank you.