marine on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 1:21 am 

Yes, he needs to be dealt with FAIRLY like other cases, no special treatment for a pastor.

Does God take sides? on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 1:26 am 

I watch the videos and sadden for a number things:

- The ex Buddhist does not do his own research into Buddhism but instead choose to believe the words of a senior monk. He continues with the same old pattern of believing too much of the words of a pastor.
- The pastor has limited knowledge of Buddhism and Taoism and use mocking words to put his points across. This is uncalled for. His apology is not good enough in this context. He should make a pledge to do more research into Buddhism and Taoism. Perhaps then he may see the two in a different light.

I may not agree with everything written on Buddhism, likewise for Christianity. It is more important to try to understand the context of some of the messages with respect to societies at different time.

For the ex-Buddhist in the video, I am happy that he found his calling. This is truth to him. Likewise for those steep in Buddhism, the teachings carry truth. Who knows what is the real truth?

One should ask yourself, does God takes sides or are men just using God’s name in vain?

Ricco on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 1:27 am 

So what’s the difference between this and the 3 Poly guys case?

TrueBlueSG on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 1:34 am 

It’s not the testimonies of the ex-monk and ex-nun that people are upset about! It’s the pastor’s lack of respect for another religion that offended everyone. Stop pushing the blame on others lah!

marine on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 2:00 am 

If you feel that by giving just an apology is not sufficient and Pastor Rony should be dealt with the law by the police and isd. You can voice up to the police, trust me, its very helpful and useful. I can’t reveal much but when the police gets a record of voices made, its gonna be very useful.

http://www.spf.gov.sg/epc/ePCLinks.html

thank you.

citizenofSG on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 2:04 am 

Pastor Rony is not God but a man. Man does make mistake and should be given another chance.

If he is doing all this for the purpose of being malicious and want to create trouble between two sets of people, one a Buddhist, the other Christian, then I think he has gone too far and need to be punish.

However this is not the case, he is only trying to win people over to his believe without thinking too seriously in what he is doing. He has erred and indefensible and insensitive to other people feeling but he definitely is not malicious.

Please forgive him. Thousand apology.

狐狸精 on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 2:14 am 

Did someone really call the police? I think this is unnecessary and uncalled for.

As buddhist, why should we be bothered what the leader of a different religion say, he does not know anything about buddhism, let him say whatever he wants, including any wrong informations, to his people. That shouldn’t affect the way we practice buddhism.

As buddhist, we still get to practice our own belief freely in this land. And we should just mind ourselves, to be a good buddhist. If what Pastor Tan said affect your believe in Buddhism, than , I think you have a lot more to learn about Buddha!

ML on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 2:20 am 

I’m ambivalent about this, frankly. While there’s certainly value to having some degree of policing against inflammatory topics, this also runs counter to the whole principle of free speech. Like it or not, many faiths do traditionally preach that other faiths are false. I’m not sure if it’s truly right to ask a devout believer to “water down” his/her expressions of faith just to serve temporal national interests (no matter how vital). But then again there probably is a place for some out-of-bounds markers for public speech. It’s a tough issue with few absolute answers.

Willie on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 3:09 am 

ISD arrest teenagers for racist remarks on facebook but dare not arrest Pastor Rony Tan for fear that it will offend the Christians

ISD officers are cowards hahahaha

alex tan on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 3:26 am 

fellow online citizens should live and let live.

the pastor learnt his lesson and i hope this episode serves as a warning to all Religious Leaders.

however, i do agree with some forummers that he ought to be lightly punished. probably a few days of jail term to send a clear message that Religious Harmony is not to be taken for granted.

Rainnix on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 4:48 am 

Well we are gracious nation ain’t we? Giving second chance for an ADULT to apologize and a slap on his wrist, tsk, tsk.

Hopefully this generous gesture by the govt on the seditious act by this pastor can be extended to the 3 ADOLESCENTS, whom we will forgive them if they “also issue their sincere apology” for they are young and might be misguided by the influx of foreigners of a certain country to skew their perception of a certain race.

If this fails, I will be prepared to ask my friends and relatives to join the religion which had the most influence in Singapore so that if they make a mistake of putting down other religions or making a racist remark or even slandering LGBTs, they will be given a second chance.

PlZ on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 4:57 am 

Not sure what the clamour for him to be arrested and the rest of the fuss is all about.

For God sake, he was criticising Buddhism, not the PAP government. Plus he was doing so from a pulpit. It was not as though he was distributing leaflets.

ISD should not get its nose involved in this. They should do what they do best. Monitoring, harassing and incarcerating dangerous politicians like Chee Soon Juan.

Let the Pastor be. He is practising religion, not politics.

SC on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 6:55 am 

TR has played a part in highlighting the videos. My thanks to TR for standing up for religious harmony!

Sad on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 6:59 am 

@The Temasek Review welcomes Pastor Rony Tan’s apology and we urge netizens to forgive him and let the matter rest. We shall respect the wishes of Pastor Tan and remove the video clips from our website.

As a Buddhist, i wish to forgive but the hurt is done. An apology is not good enough.

Jobless and Poor on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 7:35 am 

He is playing with fire and is very very lucky not to be arrested by ISD for making such unfriendly comments on other religions and also their beliefs. If I am not wrong, three youth were arrested recently for making comments about another race in the internet. I hope ISD is not practising double standards on people who made such sensitive remarks on religions or race. Race and religions are very very sensitive matters in our country and we should not take racial and religious harmony in our country for granted. I am glad ISD has taken firmed actions. Since he has apologised for the mistakes made,let us forgive him and move on.

Apology not accepted on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 7:46 am 

That pastor might have apologised. But his apology is due to the ISD interview, not his sincere apology. Deep in his flawed teaching and his character, his prejudice against other religion is deep rooted in him. Apology NOT accepted.

o 0 on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 8:28 am 

It’s not about Buddhism or Taoism. Even me as an atheist is incensed.

simple on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 8:33 am 

sad if this requires ISD to get involves. There will be no hope singaporeans will grow up. How can we expect to talk about human rights when they can’t even tolerate this?

Harry TomDick on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 8:41 am 

Many people do realise that that pastor is not a bad person. He is a good and adorable religious man.

Being religious is good thing.

But what the pastor and other Christians must realise is that theirs is not the only religion that’s worth living for. There are many, many other religions that others find worth living for too. And they don’t belittle others’ religions in such a manner.

The sooner they realise their folly of belittling other serious religions, the more mature they would have been.

I am very happy the authorities took a strong stand against that pastor. And that’s really good and fair to all.

Since he has apologised so openly, we should all forgive that man for the mistake. After all everyone make mistakes. It’s part of growing.

Harry TomDick on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 8:49 am 

>>#
>>PlZ on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 4:57 am
>>>>>>

To PIZ,

What the pastor did was really dangerous.

I am rather disappointed with your statements that it is not a serious matter. I plead you to be more sensitive.

RichardpkLee on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 9:03 am 

In the Hallowed confines of their homes and gathered place of worship,worse things were said.What Pastor Rony said and posted in his website is wrong,he made his apology after visiting ISD and posted a public apology on his website.

Buddha taught forgiveness why can’t we mortals do the same if he is to be judged let the Supreme Being be the ONE.

Ex-Christian on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 9:04 am 

http://www.viewonbuddhism.org/dharma-quotes-quotations-buddhist/buddhist-traditions.htm

“The Lord Buddha forbade his students even to criticize the teachings and teachers of other religions and cultures….A true Buddhist cannot be but non-sectarian and Rime in his approach.”
Ringu Tulku, Lineage, Your Lineage – Straight from the Heart

Grim-Reaver on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 9:07 am 

Its freedom of speech & human rights. Not like he went to your main door or stopped you while u were walking on the streets & “Hard Sell” his religion to you & when u decline, he continues to harass you.

Its his opinion. His right. If people dont like it or find it offensive then just avoid it.

Just like papaya supporters who come TR & feel offended by the anti papaya sentiments…. dont come in.

lalaland on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 9:13 am 

Told you so Pastor Rony, bad karma was going to bite your backside & we are right. Now then Pastor Rony, do YOU believe in karma? Its a universal law, Do NOT do unto others what you do not want others to do unto you. Now you get it, Pastor Rony?

Oh, TR should get the scoop as to how ISD called him up. Did they send a police car to his home address to pick him up & whisk him to a very cold room at ISD HQ with very harsh lights shining on his face to INSTRUCT him to do as told otherwise he will go to PRISON! HA! HA!

I hope Pastor Rony will get the shivers & chills everytime when he thinks of his ISD episode for the rest of his life. Oh, also hoping he will pass out green shit.

Danielseah76 on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 9:21 am 

Not all Christians are like Rony Tan. I’m a Christian, and even I believe he was acting like an idiot in this case. Uploading the video where absolutely anyone, not just ppl from his Church could see it… what is he thinking o_O….. Obviously he also forgot about the couple that was charged last year for sending out Christian material to Muslims.

Unfortunately thats the way with some ppl, who believe that their beliefs/ends justify their acts, placing their self over others. Which makes such ppl (of whatever beliefs or motivations) not much different from terrorists actually. When someone thinks he/she can do what he/she wants without consideration of others….That person should be isolated from society so that he/she only does harm to himself/herself.

Old Guy on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 9:35 am 

every big mouth needs a zip.. !!

Dan on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 9:37 am 

i have friends who are practising muslims, catholics , christians and Buddhist. They are wonderful souls. They dont claim that their religion has the monopoly to “truth”. they are open minded. What we cherish is the multi ethnicity and religious harmony in our country, our homeland.

but sad to say that actions and remarks by door knocking evangelist and certain school of thoughts are constantly telling people that only their school of thoughts will lead to heaven and the rest , hell and that doing good is just not good enough. And that “their god reign”. These messages has the potential to put one abovethe rest and thus despicing other school of thoughts

ISA, or the govt can petrol churches, temples, mosque to monitor what religious teachers teaches. But unless people like Rony Tan, sees that the fiber of religious harmony is fragile, and that the continued survivor of our nation depends on keeping this harmnoy in place….. many others may just be quietly spreading the message of intolerant in their cell group discussion.

moses on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 9:45 am 

The ex-monk kanna from the the monk & now he kanna hookwinked from the pastor. Poor man……. Anyway, that “Dick Head” Rony (Wat a name) really a smooth operator ….. A Conman in the making…… See his F face really CMI….

Dan on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 9:45 am 

All singapore has a role to play in maintaining religious harmmony in singapore:

During one of the routine visit to a petrol station to top up petrol. While browsing thro the displayed goodies in the shop, i was shocked to see that hidden behind a roll of fridge magnets with inspirational quotes, were fridge magnets with biblical quotes.

I gently highlighted this to the store manager. He apparently had no knowledge that the supplier had “skillfully” inserted the “religious” fridge mangnets in the store. These magnets were subsequently reomved by the supplier.

The ISA and govt cant be monitoring everything we do and we dont want that to happen too.

So this is how we can be vigilent and play our part…
Dan

views on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 9:48 am 

apology?

we all can tell the amount of disdain in his voice in the video.
we also can tell the kind of crowd he attracted and the kind of laughter in the background shows us what the video images did not.

we can pretend to ourselves we “fixed” the problem but this group of people with these ideas will not change their ideas.

and what’s the difference between the 3 poly guys? they don’t have 12,000 poly guys and an Almighty being their Backing Mountain. so we can push them .. push them over.

Your Mama on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 10:15 am 

What a bunch of hypocrites the hardwarzone pimply faced idiots are: those forums are full of far far worse racist comments about dark skinned people (you only have to see their comments about “ABNN” shops, for instance), and these comments occur everyday. The same ones are preaching harmony and tolerance here??? Can someone say irony and hypocrite? All together now…

There’s only one commentator above who got it right: the Pastor cannot water down his faith to suit these fake purposes of racial harmony. It’s fake because the government is only paying lip service when it comes to racial and religious harmony: if we really cared about these, we would actually run things in this country meritocatically. But racial quotas all over the place from housing to university admissions belie this PR bullshit: Chinese have no problems with the numbers game because it suits them, hence it can’t be racism ha ha! Yeah, right. Racism in the service of racial harmony ha ha!

Let’s now run every single SOB in Hardwarezone for his racist comments, shall we? And teach them the difference between what’s intolerance at best (which is IN the faith, go ahead and accuse Jesus of that too while you are at it) and downright racism and hate speech (which you get plenty of on HWZ as well those lovely 3 boys). I dare the authorities to do it.

fact on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 10:21 am 

Here’s a very similar case – 8 weeks jail term.

Quote from ST, 11 Jun 2009:

“SingTel technical officer Ong Kian Cheong, 50, and UBS associate director Dorothy Chan Hien Leng, 46, were jailed eight weeks on Wednesday for distributing and possessing anti-Muslim and anti-Catholic publications.”

“District Judge Roy Neighbour decided on a jail term, … as the couple’s offences affected the very foundation of Singapore society, which is multi-religious and multiracial … necessary to deter others from committing similar offences.

annoymous on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 10:29 am 

why isnt there a fine to him or the church or any disciplinary action held against him? instead only a warning?
Ordinary people expressing religious comments are being slapped with fines or jail terms and yet as a religious leader of sorts was not punished more serverly?

anonymous on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 10:30 am 

to the person in charge:
this is a politic/current affair website
please leave religion alone

Great Asia on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 10:33 am 

Food for Thought:

Once upon a time a senior monk and his disciple were travelling together. They came to the bank of a river and found the bridge was damaged. They had to wade across the river. There was a pretty lady who was stuck at the damaged bridge and couldn’t cross the river. The senior monk offered to carry the pretty lady across the river on his back. The lady accepted. His disciple was shocked by the move.”How can a senior monk carry a lady when we are supposed to avoid all intimacy with females?” thought the little monk. But he kept quiet.

The senior monk carried the lady across the river and his disciple followed unhappily. When they crossed the river, the senior monk let the lady down and they parted ways with her. All along the way for several miles, his disciple was making up all kinds of accusations about the senior monk in his head. This got him madder and madder. But he still kept quiet. And the senior monk had no inclination to explain his situation.

Finally, at a rest point many hours later, the disciple could not stand it any further, he burst out angrily at the senior monk. “How can you claim yourself a devout monk, when you seize the first opportunity to touch a female, especially when she is very pretty? All your teachings to me make you a big hypocrite.”

The senior monk looked surprised and said, “I had put down the pretty lady at the river bank many hours ago, how come you are still carrying her along?”

Fucked-up Govt on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 10:34 am 

We should accept the apology and let the matter rest. We should not be over-sensitive and demand actions. Every one makes mistakes and I am sure he will not do it again.

The PAP has made bigger unforgivable mistakes that threaten the lives of ordinary citizens and even turn this country into a rubbish dump for foreigners and yet continue to make millions without being punished at all.

So let’s forgive him, since he has apologized, and move on. We should not be distracted from the bigger aim of dislodging this totally incompetent govt from power come next election. So stay focus.

Rock on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 10:37 am 

@狐狸精

I beg to differ and I dont think it about whether buddhists are bother by this pastor’s bias and distasteful comments/views or lose one faith in Buddhism.

We have to see the big picture. What is worrying and causes disturbance is that this pastor is spearding very uncalled for “peachings” and run down on other religions. It is like polluting people minds and sow discords if one choose to believe and follow “blindly”.

Can you imagine that he is trying to bring this message to anyone who attended this church if there no complaints at all?

J on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 10:37 am 

Too pissed off to think after watching the video.

Maintenance of Religious Harmony Act

Restraining orders against officials or members of religious group or institution
8. —(1) The Minister may make a restraining order against any priest, monk, pastor, imam, elder, office-bearer or any other person who is in a position of authority in any religious group or institution or any member thereof for the purposes specified in subsection (2) where the Minister is satisfied that that person has committed or is attempting to commit any of the following acts:

(a) causing feelings of enmity, hatred, ill-will or hostility between different religious groups;

Anyone feeling ill-willed after watching his “presentation and comments [which] were wrong and offensive”, and if i may add, which probably reflect his firm personal beliefs as well and which he has yet to apologise for or critically reflect upon.

Yang on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 10:42 am 

It is always that one or two idiots who tarnishes a whole religion. I applaud the Christians who criticised Pastor Rony’s remarks. I also applaud the Buddhists who have taken this incident calmly. I also commend the editors call to accept his apology. Well done everyone!

si en on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 10:51 am 

This man who is probably living in his own world, should just get up and read more about buddhism and other religion studies before jeering at others. Hasn’t he been punished by GOD on the spot for his arrogant behaviour?? His slightest mistake means a grave mistake for his fellowship. Yet, he didn’t realise this simplest mistake. The reason being, his fellowship may act like him.

What is the ultimate purpose of a practice? It’s seeking the absolute happiness within oneself. What is a religion? It’s a philosophy of life which educates one to be a better person. In turn, it is an education which leads us to become better people who can serves the society and to create a harmonious environment, not only for ourselves, but for people around us.

Making a public apology is definite, but apoplogise to oneself and reflect upon one’s mistake is a definite must-must. Otherwise, what purpose does it serve to be called a pastor?

Tay Hai phau on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 10:52 am 

If ISD never call him. Do you think he will apologize. And I don’t feel his sincerity at all. He did it because he was told to. With such big group of followers. I don’t know what will be the impact from his words! I can forgive.But can’t forget!Did he tell truely what happen to his follower?

RichardpkLee on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 10:52 am 

“Brinkmanship” that is Singapore’s game avoid it or he will usurp every article.What say you Mr.anonymous?

Ex-tian on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 10:54 am 

Christians criticising other faiths? Oh that’s rich coming from a religion that preaches talking snakes, Noah’s ark, man was made from mud and woman froma bone, fossils are natural formations, that the universe is 10,000 years old, magic ghosts, virgin birth, dead coming back to life, etc..

Dan on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 10:54 am 

Dear All,

Yes , this is a political and current affair website. cant agreed more.

But when anyone, with an intend to convince their religious followers that their school of thoughts is better (the ONLY TRUTH) than others by running down anothers’ religion, this person has corssed the lone by endangering the political stability of our nation.

So this discussion has evolved into a political and current subject
Dan

comment on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 10:57 am 

videos of his sermon attacking Buddhism

Lighthouse Pastor Rony continues criticism of non-christian religion
http://tinypic.com/r/25hfz8k/6

Pastor Rony blasts Buddhism. part 1
http://tinypic.com/r/2448os4/6

Pastor Rony blasts Buddhism. part 2
http://tinypic.com/r/n322c5/6

Dan on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 11:00 am 

adding to @狐狸精 comment:

“Can you imagine that he is trying to bring this message to anyone who attended this church if there no complaints at all?”

the above statement, multiply by the congregation of people who attend places of religious worship , where there might be many more Rony Tan spreading such message of intolerant.

The result? a yong generation of “navie” believers that take literaly what the preacher/pastor tells them. and then goes around to proclaim their version of “truth”….. a polarized singapore divided along religious fanatism we will find. Sad.

F9 on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 11:03 am 

Last year, a Senior Pastor from the Church of Our Saviour Derek Hong planned to take over the AWARE using unscrupulous means was a shocked to everyone.

Probably those people involved in the organized plot was not charge in court that made other churches more determined to exercise more necessary action.

Now another organize plot to smear Buddhism & Taoism by another church, Lighthouse Evangelism Pastor Rony Tan IF he was not charged in court will eventually leads to more churches attempting more unscrupulous ways to smear other religions and seize NGO will soon surface and create destruction to social harmony.

政府必须采取杀鸡警猴作用以维护国家和平基础 ：）

The government has to seriously act on these churches and if necessary to charge and jail them for security reasons.

Mee Siam Mai Hum on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 11:13 am 

ISD Only call him up ? He should be charge under the Seditious Act . Just imagine I give you one type slap on your face and say sorry, do you think it is acceptable. No, he must reap what he sow. So many Buddhist have been hurts by his insult and mockery of Buddhism. He is doing it with motive and intention and therefore, should be charge.

Dan on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 11:14 am 

My Great asia,

A lovely story about the old monk “forgetting” the pretty lady after letting her go at the “other shore”.

There was an spiritually advanced monk telling off the junior guy about ,” he is just helping the lady cross the river and that he wasnt attracted to her beauty”. Whilst the young guy, was mad that the old monk didnt follow the vinaya, and touched the woman (carried her!) He might even be jealous that he wasnt the one carrying the babe. (coming from an un enligten mind)

This parable in the buddhist tradition is not about “forgetting” the damage Rony Tan has done to singapore. I
While he needs to be forgiven . But the law need to swing into action as per our religious harmony act 1990.

by letting him off the hook , what signal is the authority sending to other potential offender?

Create divison among singaporean of different faith via religion, run down other religion, aplogize ONLY when ISA call you up. Say , “I am sorry and will not do it again”. And you will not be PUNISHED

views on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 11:21 am 

it was a good point to compare this treatment with the treatment of the 3 poly students.

why the difference? because facebook has a larger readership?

now that the video has been circulated, the readership is the same.

is the damage more or less harmful? there are 11% indians in the country, but there are more than 11% buddhists.

is it more likely that the people involved in this issue have more power than the people involved in the poly issue, and therefore we should give them due acknowledgement of their power and not blow it up too big?

isn’t that our style of doing things all these years?

Sigh! on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 11:27 am 

Pastor apologies is not going to help. The damage has already been done. He has already brainwashed his 12,000 cells and these cells will spread to others like cancer. Sigh!

vege on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 11:28 am 

一念天堂,一念地獄。

Heaven or hell, it’s all in our hearts..

Harry TomDick on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 11:30 am 

I agree wth Dan.

And publicly mocking other religions is one of the worst and frightful crimes one can think of. By its very nature, it can tear a society apart.

Thus it is not just a matter of ‘religion’ or beliefs. It is deliberate, though misguided, human act which can easily damage social coherence.

Hence I applaud the authorities’ swift action in ‘chastising’ the culprit. But in view of the potentially much greater damage which such beliefs can cause, I certainly hope that serious and rational deliberation be accorded to such matters, especially with the unabated growth of ‘mega’ churches, which can obviously spark future upheaval, as can be seen in this incident. The consequences are frightful to say the least.

This is the only religion which is such social menace, notwithstanding the ‘goodness’ of their intentions.

Well Done on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 11:34 am 

ISD called up Lighthouse Evangelism Pastor Rony Tan over his remarks about Buddhism.
—Hi Bye? No action? No show?

Cherry on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 11:36 am 

Why make it so serious by getting the police to involve? Pastor Rony has already made a public apologies, if this can be settled among themselves y still need to put him into legal action. Pastor Rony just want to win people over his side..yes he has said something insensitive and offend the Taosim and Buddisim..but he is a human being who won’t make mistake right? Let us forgive him..don’t need to fight or criticise him bcos of one wrong he does…. Don’t tell me your never said the wrong thing at one point of your life…

Moe Gan Thai on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 11:37 am 

What I don’t like about Chritianity is they like to condemn other people’s religion. They say only through Jesus you can go to haven.But Lee Kuan Yew is also the same as Jesus as he can rise from the dead if he sees something is wrong with S’pore

bc on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 11:38 am 

@Danielseah76

Disrespect shown in private is still disrespect. Are you really justifying his actions if it happened in private ?

MacArthur Park on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 11:40 am 

This warning will only serve to push other extremist pastors and church groups to go deeper underground and further into the woodwork. For sure this extremist thinking will not go away with this insincere apology. The frightening thing is that there are other congregations with significant numbers like Lighthouse who share such extremist religious ideology.

AO on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 11:50 am 

This a freedom of speech country and we are allowed to practise different religions except cults. So what is the fuss all about and furthermore its inside a permitted area. If the ISD or relevant authorities will to visit these various religious venues then many more issues will be coming up because everyone of us have different level of STRONG believes about our own religion. If not why believe and waste time, might’s well go home and sleep or do better things.
If the relevant authorities or maybe trouble makers will to be in these religious place to pin point certain matters then its not freedom at all. If we believe, we must STRONGLY believe and not let such a minor remarks shakes you. Moreover I said again, its in a permitted vincinity. Don’t tell me these kinds of comments doesn’t occured in your place of practise? So cheer up and lets forgive and forget. Have a pleasant day.

A Christian on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 11:51 am 

Dear Fellow Christians,

In sharing the Gospel, let’s do it faithfully that we may not bring dishonour to our Lord.

We need not rely on our own wisdom or efforts to create entertainment or experience for the audience. Our obligation is to share the Gospel and God will do the rest.

delphine on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 11:52 am 

I wonder how many of you who criticized the pastor actually watched the clip. Please do not make such judgements before you have the facts right. Whatever you read in the news is not always objective.

delphine on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 11:59 am 

If we all talk about religious harmony, then I believe such slashing on a post event helps no one. Its across all religion to forgive. Let us practice what we preach.

Ashley on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 12:03 pm 

Dear all,

Please cool down.

Let’s not amplify on this incident anymore or make it worse by making verbal attacks on individuals.

1. Whether or not, Mr Rony Tan gets under the law is seriously not under our control. We just need to get the fact right – Such religion comments are not helpful in building a harmonic and better Singapore. SO, LET US ALL NOT FOLLOW HIS EXAMPLE.

2. Let go of this issue, treat this lightheartedly and most importantly, forgive. The teachings from Buddha to let go and forgive through compassion i.e 看开，放下，慈悲之心 will help us all to feel better. What’s the use of killing your own cells and boiling your blood over something that has been done? If we go around creating havocs with Christians, how different are we from Mr Rony Tan?

3. Most mainstream religions teach good things. However situations like people making harmful statements will keep appearing and this surely does not only happen in Christian groups. Some Muslim / Taoist / Buddhist groups which do not receive the right teachings from their God will behave the same way eg our dear Osama and fellow friends. So, let us not twist the good intentions of these religions even if some of their followers are acting in irresponsible way.

Let us all create a better world through individual efforts!

Gong Xi Fa Cai!!!

Warmest Regards,
Ashley

AO on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 12:07 pm 

Yes. Faithful is the word. Don’t lean on your own understanding but let God’s will be done.

Just do your best and God will do the rest.

To : A Christian on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 12:07 pm 

Your Gospel is filled with tracts that call on your fellow Christians to denigrate the believers of other religions.

Do some soul searching…..

BYRD ANDREW on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 12:10 pm 

To all mankind, if you cannot understand human, it no point trying to understand religion. The fools will only speak but the wise will listen.

BYRD ANDREW on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 12:18 pm 

It ok to preach on any religion but dont make yourself sounds like a salesman. That a problem we are facing now. I love the POPE, turkish people , so peaceful.

Goondoo on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 12:18 pm 

That’s why I never support the call for the ISA to be abolished. We need it to keep such people like Pastor Tan in line. This is Singapore, in case Pastor Tan has forgotten after getting so close to his God everyday, and we need to respect other religions.

As a buddhist, I forgive him since he had apologised.

Goondoo says, 仇恨不能化解仇恨，唯有宽容。而弥陀佛。

hinidi on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 12:31 pm 

how can he say that buddhism is a “false religion”? he writes singapore’s law?

YOU'RE FIRED! on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 12:31 pm 

Hello everybody, let’s not get carried away with too much anticipation of condemnation. The ISD is just making some enquires because a public complaint has been lodged in the interest of religious harmony. It in no way is a manifestation that the subject of your wrath has been adjudged by them to have committed a seditious act (ISD is involved because the authorities are looking at it from the angle of an act of sedition).

It is my opinion that after the preliminary interview, which is of a fact gathering basis, the matter would probably be put on away as from the point of interpretation of law, no transgression has been committed. The point of contention then, is whether public order has been compromised, in which case it is not.

The most likely scenerio is that the church would be advised to keep in line with the spirit of the provisions of both the Religious Harmony Act and the Seditions Act, and that it should ensure that the sentiments of people of other faith and religion be respected.

I hope Pastor Rony Tan now realise that, in his enthusiasm in evangelise more people into his Christian faith, although conducted within its own private premises, he should have been more thoughtful not to allow such video from being easily assessed by members of the public or other sect. Things which are to be private and confidential, whatever it may be that transpired (even, say, a plot to overthrow the government for instance) should be kept under lock and keys. If Lighthouse Eveangelist had, on their website, made the link to its archives or video on a membership basis, and entry into such an area is through a password, then this would not have happened. In fact, on the contrary, if this had been done and the video was being reproduced by TR at its site, it would constitute an infringement of private property on the part of TR, and the whole issue would have a totally different bearing altogether.

This is a good lesson to remind everyone that what is meant for private consumption should be kept “indoors” and not allowed to be circulated outside, especially on the subject of religion which is a extremely sensitive issue. Remember the public backlash against Salman Rushdie when his “Satanic Verse” was published? Though the book was a fiction, it was based on his very own private thoughts, and it was published for public consumption. The condemnation and display of anger by Muslims all over the world, particularly in the more fanatical regions, against the Danish newspaper which carried a carricature of Mohammad very recently is also another such incident.

At the end of the day, if LKY was sitting at the throne of God, he would have told Pastor Rony Tan “YOU’RE FIRED !’

anon on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 12:35 pm 

I would like ISD to explain why some people are charged under the sedition act and have to be jailed, while this pastor can escape jail term simply by apologising.

Examples of those jailed are the couple caught distributing seditious publications and some young bloggers a few years ago. More recently, 3 teenagers have been charged under the sedition act for posting racist remarks on facebook.

In contrast, our dear pastor has only been invited for coffee and not charged. Maybe not yet.

YOU'RE FIRED! on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 12:44 pm 

BRYD ANDREW

You’re not fired ! What a brilliant statement.

May I also add that we should all ponder over what makes a man – is it the brain or is it the heart? Some say its the brain (which makes us superior to the animals), while others say its the heart (which also distinguish us from being animals). And what do I say ?

I say there are some who all all brains and there are some with all hearts. And yet there some with no brains and some with no hearts.

Go and do some reflection everyone here who have posted comments one way or another.

Amphyxvena on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 12:45 pm 

Life is boring enough. Please don’t make it anymore worse.

lee on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 12:48 pm 

so sad and disppointed for the pastor rony Tan

big mouth on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 12:54 pm 

whatever done cannot be undone , but point is ,if we have the task to do god teaching , we should lead to god’s will , all religion has an equal level of teaching mankind , as i believe god is universal. So lets God do the decision , don let mankind kill mankind.

Let it be, will be the best for all mankind to live in harmony and be forgiving

BYRD ANDREW on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 12:55 pm 

Please learn from this mistake, Just preach it right & dont make yourself sounds like a salesman. Remember the second commandment ( thou shall not use the name of the lord thy god in vain.) As a true singaporean, we must learn to forgive. To think too much about human mistakes will only hurt our internal self (heart). LOL. singaporean style.

ellen on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 12:58 pm 

I shudder to think if one day Singapore leader is of this calibre, be it she/he is a Christian, Muslim or Buddhist, Hindu or any other religion imposing her/his belief and legislate it.
Imagine the scenario for this society.
Up north South Korea when policies by its leader favored more of his belief, it takes the monks to be on the street to express ‘enough is enough”.

Fortunately in Singapore we have the Religious Harmony Act in place, this Act needs to be enforce when call for. When you put your thinking as a leader in the internet it is no longer personal or to only your followers.

Andy on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 1:01 pm 

Simple apology doesn’t mean much.

“he is only trying to win people over to his believe without thinking too seriously in what he is doing. He has erred and indefensible and insensitive to other people feeling but he definitely is not malicious.”

If he who preach and don’t think carefully what he’s trying to preach, he is not fit to be a pastor.

Ying Zi on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 1:02 pm 

He don’t apologised because he is truly sorry about it,it’s because people complain him! Why is he only let off with a warning? Then again,buddhism respects one another,not criticize others.

Dan on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 1:14 pm 

Cherry’s quote:

“Pastor Rony just want to win people over his side..yes he has said something insensitive and offend the Taosim and Buddisim..but he is a human being who won’t make mistake right? Let us forgive him..don’t need to fight or criticise him bcos of one wrong he does…. Don’t tell me your never said the wrong thing at one point of your life…”

No one says that human is not prone to error , ROny tan included. It is my impression that he is been “forgiven”. And we arent fighting either. No one wins in a war.
We dont and cant judge(jump into conclusion) someone in a nagative light because of who he is or even plainly by what he says. Before we do anything (verbal, action or speech),
there has to be :
a) An intention
b) some sort of plannng and conceptualising to carry out the plan or verbalize it.
c) the actual execution of the plan.

And to Ms Cherry comment of :

“..don’t need to fight or criticise him bcos of one wrong he does….”

You may want to ask Rony Tan what are his intention for ridiculing Buddhist and taoist in making the video.

Attracting his followers is one thing, but (if) doing something with an INTENTION to cause confusion, disharmony and division is something very serious. And because he is probably a well respected figure in his church and people do listen to him, therefore we are crying out because his ONLY ONE “mistake” can have a negative impact in an exponential manner.

NEXT:

” Don’t tell me your never said the wrong thing at one point of your life…”

yes we all made mistake…we are not enlightened beings..
but we are not in a position as influential as rony tan. we do not command a 12,000 strong audience. We are not a religious leader… what ever we say remains within a personal and private discussion. But this one WRONG step by rony tan has spreaded into the minds of 12000 people.

1 more person who shares rony’s extreme view is far too many for singapore to handle.

Daniel

Sinkapore on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 1:34 pm 

There is no need to worry about what ISD is about or going to do to him. It will only be a coffee session footed by the ISD and nothing else.

This is in stark contrast to the 3 poly guys who are unconnected and has no backing whatsoever, which explains the GRAVE DIFFERENCE in how they were being dealt with.

This is not SOME pastor nor is he pastor of SOME church. The church has thousands if not tens of thousands of members who believes in this pastor and for ISD to detain him now will be political suicide instantly for the PAPies.

The famiLEE may be senile but definitely not stupid.

@marine, don’t be naive. Unless you can get 10,000+ Sinkaporeans to make such a report, whatever report made to the Police regarding thisd pastor will be KIVed.

Even if the pastor call the old man a DOG, a Senile Traitor and plastered his ‘doings’ of translating allied reports and ’selling’ out his fellowmen during the Japanese Occupation , NOTHING will happen to him.

Please remember that GE is around the corner and it is very very BAD to piss Christians off, at least for now.

Dan on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 1:36 pm 

Ashely quote:

“Let go of this issue, treat this lightheartedly and most importantly, forgive. The teachings from Buddha to let go and forgive through compassion i.e 看开，放下，慈悲之心 will help us all to feel better. What’s the use of killing your own cells and boiling your blood over something that has been done? If we go around creating havocs with Christians, how different are we from Mr Rony Tan?”

Happpy new year Ash.

“看开，放下” or take it easy, let go.. are being widely and loosely used in the buddhist community. All responsible religion and scholars teach about forgivenss..

take it easy or “看开” can be, when you are dumped by your bf, you tell yourself..”hey there’s more in life than a failed relationship..so what the fuss? Move on! Make the best out of my life” This is “看开”. It is a positive outlook in life.

“放下” or let go.. is really about regconizing that many of our problems exisit because we have a big EGO(and there is nothing so sinful about it). and when this EGO gets hurt, we want to take revenge. Therefore my understand of
“放下” is : To reflect upon ourselevs , our actions , our intention and then learn to reduce our ego, our arrogance.. and the next time you are accused or fired by your friends or boss for something you didnt do,,,, dont react with impulse..instead , respond accordingly with a calm mind.

Lastly, helping us “feel better” when the meaning of “看开，放下” is misunderstood is merely sweeping the problems under the carpet.

It also doesnt means that those we keep a calm mind can be a push over !

Daniel

Harry TomDick on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 1:37 pm 

I still remember we had this thing known as the “Parliament of Religions” in Singapore, in which leaders of many religious faiths participate in a public function. It was a wonderful platform created in the right spirit of religious harmony, and I loved it.

Imagine how that harmony can be easily ‘vandalised’ by the unthinking action of one particular faith, such as so blatantly displayed by that pastor.

Such unthinking ‘rogue’ behaviour (as seen in the videos concerned) is absolutely not acceptable in the interest of peace.

To me, the pastor is a nice and adorable man, as a person.
Being nice and adorable is one thing. But then, even the nicest religious person on earth must also extend his love to the whole of mankind, and not just unthinkingly embrace his set of narrow sectarian beliefs to the exclusion of all other beliefs and philosophies.

Judging from the number of Christians defending the pastor and their view that he has done nothing wrong, I am afraid the future of religious harmony is not that rosy.

JT on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 1:37 pm 

Ris Low got into so much shit and had to pull out of Miss Singapore just because she make a fool out of herself over an interview. Mr Rony Tan damage the reputation of his own church, insulted other religion and piss so many people off and he think he can get away with an apology….. i think he should be step down as the pastor and keep his mouth shut.

RIP on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 1:38 pm 

i think the heading that the person posted up was taken out of context. Pastor Rony blasts buddism. the person who put it up was obviously stirring trouble. why wasn’t the person who put it up not called in? if you wanna put blame, there’s alot of blame to go around.

i say let the matter rest. he apologised already what more do you want? if he’s jailed for it, it’s not be-fitting of the “crime” either. like this everywhere you go in singapore you can’t say or do anything. don’t make our country into a joke. he’s not asking his congregation to go out and kill people or any acts of extreme behaviour. he passed some poor judgement calls and he’s openly sorry about it. i think it’s good enough. if people are always made examples of in singapore and thrown into jail for it. we need to build more jails and i need to get out of this country.

whoever hasn’t said anything inappropiate before about a race, gender, reglion, culture? whether in jest or being serious? doesn’t matter if you’re saying it in a private congregation or to one person going by some of your theories. on this site, i better say i have never said anything of such nature, cause it seems people would want me in jail too. so for the record, i have NEVER done any of the above before. just as sure as ALL of you have NEVER done it before, that’s why you want to be so harsh on this pastor that the media has fed to all of you.

peace. let it be rest. singaporeans get together and be graceful and care for one another.

Dan on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 1:39 pm 

Dear Singkapore:

I bow to you! LOL
dan

Cherry on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 1:39 pm 

Thank you Daniel for your sharing and comments.. I won’t say that Pastor Rony has no intention when he is giving speech but it depends on how individual take it. I just hope everybody can calm down and do not jump to conclusion. I believe there are many more people criticising other people’s religion is just that they are not made publicly..then do you think all these people should be put into legal actions too? Legal actions should come in if he repeated the same mistake the next time… Come on PEACE come first right? I’m just being a neutral party here..Hope all can forgive him and live in peace

I agree with what Ashley has commended:

3. Most mainstream religions teach good things. However situations like people making harmful statements will keep appearing and this surely does not only happen in Christian groups. Some Muslim / Taoist / Buddhist groups which do not receive the right teachings from their God will behave the same way eg our dear Osama and fellow friends. So, let us not twist the good intentions of these religions even if some of their followers are acting in irresponsible way

lalaland on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 1:40 pm 

Hmmm..seems like a couple of Lighthouse worshippers under Pastor Rony are making comments here. Very easy to tell, most have females names: Cherry, Delphine: same modus operandi, say lets not make a mountain out of a molehill, to err is human, Pastor Rony did NO WRONG cos he evangelized in a place of worship…blah blah.

To the Lighthouse worshippers who are here, learn your lesson from Pastor Rony and just SHUT UP. Keep it within your own place of worship.

runi tan on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 1:47 pm 

He should be punished by:

1. Going to Thailand to be a temp monk and be enlightened by Lord Buddha!

2. Convert his 2 church in Tampines and Woodlands into a buddhist and taoist temple!

JT on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 1:58 pm 

Cherry…agree with you comments, also do feel that legal action should be taken on Rony Tan. However after making such reckless comment in front of so many pple, is he still fit to be a pastor. Like what a lot of pple have commented. there are thousands of follower listen to him every week. Does he know what are the consequences of his every single comment.

Sinkapore on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 2:18 pm 

I agree with some.

Religiously speaking, one should learn to firgive but not necessary forget. To err is human and to forgive is divine.

HOWEVER, legally speaking, he SHOULD BE taken to task in accordance with the law to prove that the Law is fair and just.

JUST4FUN on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 2:22 pm 

THE one is sent free and other can follow and say thing, what are the law for, those are going to run down the law in singapore, and can get himself free from it, are singaporean going to believe there are not happen again and again with somebody that even more powerful. THE coin have both sides, they are on top of law, nothing concern of religion, laws is broken and he is running free.+ HE who are known of laws and tested it and are set free,,,,,,there are people begging to forgive him and still follow him belief and no one can stop him now. SINGAPORE is a FINE place.

Ali Dharma on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 2:30 pm 

Hi Saudara2ku,
Sebenarnya kita semua harus mengkasihi Pastor Rony Tan karena beliau tidak tahu apa yang dibicarakan sehingga keluarlah kata2 yang memang dia tidak ketahui.

Dan kepada Pastor Rony Tan, kami menghimbau untuk mempelajari Buddha Teaching karena ini adalah Taeching dan bukan Agama sehingga Pastor diperbolehkan untuk mempelajarinya dan setelah itu silahkan Pastor memberikan komentarnya tentang teaching tersebut.

Kami dari Indonesia sangat menghargai bila Pastor setelah mempelajarinya dapat menghubungi kami untuk berdiskusi tentang Teaching tersebut.

Sekali-kali Pastor juga silahkan melihat hasil survey discovery yang mengatakan bahwa ternyata ada seorang bernama Isa sedang belajar Buddha Teaching di kaki gunung Himalaya.

Terima kasih, semoga Pastor selalu diberkati Abundance oleh Yang Maha Kuasa dan secepatnya Enlightment.

Sadhu, Sadhu, Sadhu.

Catatan: Pastor juga boleh mempelajari Hukum Alam Semesta (Universal Law) yang mana Law-Law tersebut berkaitan dengan Ajaran atau Agama manapun.
Haleluya…

YOU'RE FIRED! on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 2:38 pm 

RIP

You are an intelligent one. You have brought up a very important point, and that is THE PERSON TO BROUGHT IT TO TR TO BE POSTED ON THE PUBLIC FOR ALL TO SEE should be investigated by the ISD itself, because there is reason to believe he has an agenda.

He could have taken the video tape to a police station and lodged his protest there. Why did he want to have it “published” through a public forum such as TR? Unless he has an agenda. And if there is ground to suggest an investigation, which indeed there is, he should be called in for questioning as to his underlying motives because he knows very well what the reactions would be, especially from the Buddhists who sees it. He was actually a providing fuel to fan a fire, in other words, his action was irresponsible. TR is also treading on dangerous grounds in allowing itsself to be a channel to be used by someone who has a hidden agenda in stirring up tension between devotees of Buddhism and Christianiy.

I think the ISD should call up that person as well and ask him to give a full account why he had not reported to the police directly but instead fanned it to the public through TR. I think his motive is seditious in nature. It was NOT to inform, but rather to STIR sentiments of the public.

There is a lot of undercurrents in this one. Can TR please provide the readers here with more information of this person?

Is anybody out there going to make a police report to investigate this person? I think there is something sinister here.

Serene Soh on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 2:45 pm 

Call yourself a Spiritual Leader?!! without mindful speech!! Its a shame to your GOD..what an Ignorance attitude they have. PEACE! PEACE! PEACE! is what we should promote…

Mahayana on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 2:57 pm 

As a Buddhist myself, I concur that its better to forgive and forget such this case. But sometimes its easier to say then act, I have heard lots of similar cases about Christians mocking Buddhism (be it from friends, preaches, pastors); and frankly it really burns me to the core. I guess its a virtue to withstand such mockery with patience eh? Just how much patience that we have left, is the next question. We are merely human beings afterall.

singapore on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 3:05 pm 

will pastor rony be locked up without trial for decades under the ISA and then released to sentosa island to be detained for another decade like chia thye poh?

or will he simply be locked up without trial for a few years and be released a broken spirited man?

should pastor rony grab his passport and make a run for thailand right away?

Give Peace A Chance on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 3:09 pm 

Imagine there is no religion. The world will be peaceful and better place to live. Cheers!

bc on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 3:19 pm 

@YOU’RE FIRED!

It was posted by the church itself.

http://www.lighthouse.org.sg/miracletv.asp

Now read your own comments back to yourself.

Hotshoot on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 3:19 pm 

He had in past and now repeatedly make funs and joke on to Buddish , althoght is it within he own Church, is not allowed under the Law, He should be Charged. and deal with seriously.

What would it be if such the same is practice in the Muslim communities, the hindu and the Tao temple.. It will cast amough the differnece religon groups to think that*WHAT YOU PRACTICE IS NONSENCESICLE* rather then respecting each others believes.

The end of the day, it will be stiring up unrest within the communities.

We would not want to be Sorry for, by then.

I would wish to see that the relevant authority to act.

Blind leading Blind on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 3:28 pm 

Who is the “Blind” person here….the pastor with “no eyes” for the other religious , or the Blind buddhist/taoist.

With such a “great” & “compassionate” heart for others (hmm..i mean the opposite actually ) , what can i say about his “great” teaching to his fellowers…oooh, so MIS-leading…LOL

cooldownandthink on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 3:34 pm 

True tolerance is not thinking all religions are the same,
it is thinking that person A’s religion is rubbish
and yet treating that person with respect and still being able to relate to that person as a fellow Singaporean or human.
The pastor was speaking to his flock, in his church.
The medium he chose is a passive media…unlike leaflets thrust into your mailbox or spam mail which is a active form
of media. Buddhists or Taoists are not forced to go to the website to look. His views are not thrust into mailboxes of all Singaporeans or broadcasted to all via TV.
Let’s say that no one is aware of the clips and ISD did not intervene. What is the consequence.?..will the christians of Lighthouse become incensed against Buddhists and Taoists because of the message and thereby go about torching or vandalizing temples ? The answer is no. Will christians of Lighthouse especially, go about chastising and making fun of their Buddhist neighbors ? No. Why not ? Because the result of christians knowing for example that Buddhism/Taoism are false religions say does not stir them up to tear down temples and persecute Buddhists/Taoists….all it does is motivate them to convert Buddhists/Taoists BUT the means chosen to do this has been the means that Lighthouse Evangelism and other christian churches have been using all along for centuries : namely good works , friendship…which means definitely that you do not piss off people…, miracle services and such and not hostile and thus socially disruptive methods. These are the means that are equally open to and used by all other religions in Singapore. Lighthouse has been in existence for a long time and Pastor Ronny’s convictions about Buddhism and Taoism has been such for long time …he was a Taoist convert afterall. It will also continue to be the same after this incident. What is there to convince him that Buddhism/Taoism is true now? Because ISD said so? If so ISD can command all Singaporeans to have ONE Singapore religion with whoever it designates as God and there would no fear of religious unrest…but then powerful as ISD is…also cannot right ? But the point is….all this time that Pastor Ronny had these views, did the Church disrupt social harmony in Singapore ? No. So its not the Church or the pastor that is a threat to social harmony. The case with the youths in Facebook is a little different when you are talking to someone of a different race in this case and you insult him. To translate and make it a more apples to apples case …it would be like Pastor Ronny at a community gathering where there are Buddhist and Taoist leaders rudely disparaging these leaders to the face. The key word here is rudely. Because why can’t leaders at such a gathering RESPECTFULLY DISAGREE with each other on what they believe? True tolerance is not believing in everything as equally true because in that case Buddhists should also come to Church to pray to Jesus if you go that far and Mosques as well to pray to Allah….but to agree to disagree respectfully. There may be even respectful debate and arguments if the parties abide by the principle of respect of person ( not so much of ideas or beliefs ) and brotherly kindliness. Both ways….non christians may raise their views about christians like for example…a Pastor may say what Ronny said to a Buddhist leader
and the Buddhist leader may retort thus ” Christians criticising other faiths huh? Oh that’s rich coming from a religion that preaches talking snakes, Noah’s ark, man was made from mud and woman froma bone, fossils are natural formations, that the universe is 10,000 years old, magic ghosts, virgin birth, dead coming back to life, etc.” .and then both laugh and after that they both go have some makan at the kopti tiam and watch football together. That is truly what tolerance and social harmony is about and not this shallow kind of being overly correct like MacDonalds having to pull out the Pig mascot in fear of offending people. We can agree to disagree and yet have respect of persons and friendship. If you say that Singaporeans can’t and sadly it seems that increasingly they can’t because the ISD has to come to the fore…then the future is dim for Singapore in view of the conditions of times ahead of us. Also as in the AWARE Saga, christians have gone into over defensive apologetic mode to fail to point out OK… there are 2 parties here…Christians and Buddhists/Taoists etc
If some members of the latter were not to agitate (( in view of their own teachings of compassion and kindness and being detached and all…all good virtues )) …is there any more trouble ? Reflect…are the intentions truly for peace and social harmony or deceitfully otherwise.

TrueBlueSG on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 3:44 pm 

Quoted from an online blog comment:

pastor rony tan is a joke.

I went to his church last year for good friday only to hear him spend a whole hour making fun of buddhist and taoism via the help of two mediacorp artist ( the “aiyoyo” teacher n her husband)

I sent an email to him thereafter to tell him to stop doing such insulting things and he send me some really lame reply back.

Some people just DONT learn.
Now that the government is involved, he apologises. I dont rem him apologising to me back then. (Im from a buddhist family)

source
http://dhammaprotector.blogspot.com/…-buddhism.html

agnostic on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 3:47 pm 

We should be thankful to the person who posted this video. Otherwise, we will be kept in the dark. Pastor Rony may be a somebody as compare to the 3 unknown poly guys. So there is no guarantee the police or isd will take action against him unless this video is release on public for all to see.

marine on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 3:48 pm 

Cooldownnthink,

Pastor Rony and Lighthouse is not the first and the only church / pastor that teaches its flocks that other religions are false and demonic. An average singaporean would all have been approched by a Christian Evangelist. =)

This answers …

hong lan gao on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 3:51 pm 

I ever saw a few young people about 25 years old throw away altar objects , you know, those red miniature ‘houses’ like little temples from their home to near rubbish chutes near the hdb.

I also know of a funeral of a family’s grandmother many of her grandchildren now grown up and converted insist not to hold incense sticks and pray during the funeral where the deceased grandmother is a firm believer of a religion where its a tradition or practice for worshippers to pray holding the sticks out of respect for the gods.

These are my observations. I find that these can add friction among different religious believers. Imagine how insulted the believers of the same religion as the grandmother feel?

Cannot even oblige to show respect.

Doraemon Skoobi on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 4:00 pm 

would his appology affect the Trust of his followers?
or would the followers follow another one?

sturmtruppen on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 4:18 pm 

To agnostic,

The problem is by putting these videos on “his” church website…

He is actually spreading religious disharmony.

And he is not charged…just say sorry and move on okay?

Whoever in charge who let this pastor off truely shows their lack of character…

http://www.quotationspage.com/subjects/character/

A sad state of affairs.

native singaporeans on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 4:22 pm 

Pastor Rony need to be charged and jail for this extremely serious offence.

His remarks and poking fun of Buddhism & Taoism are affecting Worldwide believers and not solely within singapore context.

To charge him by law is necessary because he is a well educated adult and also a experience senior leader.

In fact there are too many such extreme speeches, actions remarks by pastors and their believers.

Therefore to continue enjoy religion harmony the respectable ministry has to take action against Pastor Rony Tan to appease the worldwide Buddhists & Taoists community.

If it to be settled with just a apologize by anyone will not deter future repeated or worst problems b

Kenny on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 4:28 pm 

I believe , we had to respect each other religion ,not by putting comments unnecessary . Our Leaders also emphasis
One People, One Nation,One Singapore . Apology is not enough,
He should make a public apology to apologise for what he should not said .

Woriried Citizen on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 4:40 pm 

Law should be fairly enforced on all religious matters while the whole world is watching.

SeeWhoDie on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 4:44 pm 

Oh !!! I see

HighProfile Pastors CANNOT BE charged for creating organize plots.

1) Last Year 2009

Senior Pastor from the Church of Our Saviour Derek Hong used underhand method to snatch AWARE.

2) This Year 2010

Lighthouse Evangelism Pastor Rony Tan over his remarks about Buddhism & Taoism.

Both pastors seem to be protected by somebody(s) with very high position(s) thus they are NOT charged and jailed.

It is sad to have no true justice in Singapore Law to handle these highprofile people like Pastor Derek Hong and Pastors Rony Tan

Pastors Protected By HighProfile People on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 4:54 pm 

（一) Obviously both Pastors, Derek Hong & Rony Tan are likely protected by extremely HIGH PROFILE PEOPLE therefore we can see them escape with Hypocritical Apologize Letters

bc on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 5:04 pm 

He was not called up “to drink kopi”.

He was called up OVER THE PHONE ! Not even a face to face meeting.

Lenox on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 5:06 pm 

What I feel totally despicable of Pastor Rony is the use of 2 clueless ex-buddhists/taoist and twist it to his advantage and spread his faith…… This action is totally unacceptable.

Great Asia on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 5:15 pm 

Dan,

一念天堂,一念地獄 – “A thought can lead you to heaven or hell; we should be mindful of our thoughts.”

Borrowing these words from ‘Vege’ above.

I would suggest people to be cool.

joshuatree on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 5:17 pm 

This pastor is getting a slap on the hand for this reason.

Correct me if I sound too paranoid. If this incident is made even bigger by prosecuting him, it would just shatter the image of “perfect, civilised” Singapore if compared to its neighbours.

The coverage of the Allah issue in Malaysia, the apparent “lawlessness” in the Phillippines and the rigid “conservative views” in Indonesia were strong.

Now Singapore to have its own problem? I doubt the authorities want this. Shows you how much of a joke the people in charge of this country is.

报应 on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 5:21 pm 

你们相信报应吗？

别担心。

古人一句话 : 人不能收他， 天会收他。

justkaypoh on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 5:40 pm 

It’s a fact that Christianity are blasted by many online and offline.

Even Da Vinci Code is seditious.

How come there’s no questioning on these?

Double standard? Your views please.

YOU'RE FIRED! on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 5:51 pm 

Hey guys, you should look at the mirror and re-look the comments you have posted.

This is about a man (yes a mortal man, a sinner) who made a mistake and thus committed a sin. If you should want to criticise, by all means criticise the man and his mistake. Please do not go round criticising his religion, because he did not make that religion. It is just extending your criticism to his father and his mother and so forth.

If a man errs, it is he who errs, not his values, or beliefs, etc. And everybody makes mistakes and commits sins. No one can truly say he’s got no one single blemish on him. Can anyone tell me that he is totally upright and perfect?

What we need to know is that we know the world is imperfect, and we are imperfect. But when the perfect comes, we must take stock and make sure the imperfect disappears.

The dust is settling. Why continue to criticise Christianity (there are a lot of postings here which used the unfortunate incident as an opportunity to attack Christianity and Christians in general – go through the 4 threads on this issue and count them by the volumes) ? However, there was no critical remark being posted regarding Buddhism, save for a few writers who did not criticised it but rather offered explanations on misconceptions associated with it.

If these writers accused Pastor Rony Tan for attacking Buddhism, I do not understand why they are doing exactly the same thing by attacking Christianity and other Christians. So much hypocrisy here, my ghosh.

The subject matter should be closed, and it’s time to move on.

YOU'RE FIRED! on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 5:55 pm 

And talking about racism, there is one guy here who just posted his comments in Mandarin when he knows the medium of communication at this forum is English. He should have posted them in the Mandarin thread.

I wouldn’t dare fire him. He may run to PAPa and claim that I discriminate against Chinese later, and then I’d be fired !

TonyK on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 6:07 pm 

I have never heard of Rony Tan or the Lighthouse Evangelism but suddenly I am beginning to access the website and play some of the downloads on You-tube. The controversy is free publicity to him. He will suddenly find himself more popular than before. What he was trying to preach is not unique but already present in all religions and faiths. The approach may be different. There were many Asians visiting Bangkok invoking blessings from the 4-face Brahma at Erawan. There were yet thousands from all over the world flocking to Puttaparthi in India witnessing the divine miracles of living godman Sai Baba. To these people and to Buddhist, Taoists etc, they have no quarrel with Mr.Rony Tan to his ministry of lively rock music, eager youngsters under the influence of group instinct, swaying in harmony in their intense approach to touch God. Whatever it is, God has to appear different to different people. It is fortunate that Mr. Rony Tan’s comment did not affect those who guarded their religion jealousy, otherwise he will be hiding like the writer Mr. Salman Rusdie or getting his church torched if in certain Country.

zeronut on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 6:17 pm 

This whole issue is stupid

Anna Yeo on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 6:57 pm 

Everyone make mistakes so did a Pastor! We all should let this matter rest! God is with you, Pastor Rony Tan! I believe that you’re a good pastor… I always enjoyed what you preached during every services… God loves you, no matter what happen! May God bless you and your family!

joshuatree on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 9:00 pm 

@justkaypoh

For me, its not about his religion. I couldnt care less of what kind of chicken rice this dude eats. This kind of stuff happens everyday.

BUT if you can arrest 3 kids for making racist comments, I’m sure as heck that you can arrest an adult for making comments such as what this Pastor said.

If you can arrest extremist religious people under the reason of “reasonable suspicion” then why not this pastor?

If you can arrest and jail 2 guys for wearing shirts with their opinion of our justice system, then why not this pastor?

It’s the principle and the action that matters. If this dude does not get some sort of punishment, then that is DOUBLE STANDARD.

A Christian on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 9:51 pm 

I am personally very embarassed by the pastor’s actions. In addition to his apology, I gladly offer mine. I believe everyone has a right to worship his own God.

DOUBLE STANDARDS AGAIN on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 10:15 pm 

@ ■joshuatree on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 9:00 pm

DOUBLE STANDARDS AGAIN.

http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking+News/Singapore/Story/STIStory_406420.html

” On Tuesday, District Judge Jeffrey Sim ruled that Sim, an elder at the Lighthouse Evangelism church, did not deliberately exploit a minor. ‘He was misled by both the pimp and the minor into believing that the minor was 18 or above 18 years old,’ the judge said. ”

” The judge said these facts made Sim’s case different from that of Tan Chye Hin, 55, who was jailed nine months last year for having sex with the same girl.”

Kantonees on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 10:21 pm 

wa this lighthouse evangalism so happening. got peadophile follower some more!

justkaypoh on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 10:50 pm 

Joshuatree,

As of why the 3 kids/teens and kangaroo shirts guys got arrested, that you have to ask the PAP govt. I don’t agree that they be arrested.

These are not religious examples.

Verdict is not out on the 3 teens yet. I doubt they will be jailed.

Our govt is biased, that’s common knowledge.

Remember the Christian couple was jailed for distributing seditious tracts? What do you say then?

I think warning is enough.

A better comparision will be comparing religious sedition.

So now you tell me, defame Christianity is fine but defame Buddhism is NOT?

I condemn those who defame religion.

So do you condemn those that defame Christianity, even those in this forum?

Should they be treated by the same yardstick? Askking your own opinion, not the govt actions.

666 on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 11:09 pm 

In an unfortunate turn for Christianity, this event just show how far the devil or satan that they so much condemn, has become themselves. jesus died in kind for this people, the people like rony condemns this magnificent sacrifice of the entity they so awe and worship. An act of such, just show how much un-christian the existing churches has become. In this world at this time has satan finally make his way out acting as a charismatic man of faith and spreading his madras just like what bible has predicted so long back?

kau kia on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 11:22 pm 

I think I must start worshipping Pastor Rony Tan, ooppss excuse me did
I said that he is a pastor? Strange his thought is like my brother kid at his 12 years old
Logic.

Rule #1. Shut up, if you do not comprehend other religion teachings.
Rule #2. Do not harras other religion in front of your follower unless you are a dick.

Is he really a pastor? Can someone confirm? If Jesus student like to harras,that must be
the teacher’s fault (using his logic).

DOUBLE STANDARDS AGAIN on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 11:36 pm 

POLL AT HWZ
Regarding Mr Wong Kan Seng’s response to the media queries on the difference in treatment

http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/showthread.php?t=2668069

Regarding Mr Wong Kan Seng’s response to the media queries on the difference in treatment between that for the 3 youths arrested last month for posting racist comments on Facebook, and that for the pastor who made insulting remarks against the Buddhist and Taoist faiths

kau kia on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 11:37 pm 

Rony Tan is a pain in the ass for his religion, pity.He suffer from
Inferior Complex behavior, talking bad things about other for being look great

atheist on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 11:41 pm 

George Carlin – Religion is bullshit.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeSSwKffj9o

George Carlin: The Ten Commandments

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkRYaMiP4K8&feature=related

kau kia on Tue, 9th Feb 2010 11:53 pm 

They were 4 parties in the Bullying videos ;
1. Buddhism/Taoist ; casting “Innocents Victims”.
2. Rony Tan ; casting ” Dick”
3. Ex monk. ; casting “Idiot subject”
4. Follower. ; casting “cheerfollower” (or dick sucker), laugh when the dick play with the idiot subject about the innocent victim.

Can you see that?

kau kia on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 12:20 am 

To Rony Tan followers, do you really like to see RT bullying
Other religion? I believe that not all of you laugh during
The bullying session (the so called testimony, if this is a testimony, then this is
A bullying testimony).

If this is a true testimony, why do you need innocent victims?
What have Buddhism and Taoist done that deserve the bullying?

Beware of the Dick pastors,do not be a dick sucker, choose the real one that can truly
Take you to enlightment.

Carrot on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 12:38 am 

I felt very mentally disturbed. I hope Mr Rony Tan can be dealt with in accordance to the law.

icarus on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 5:10 am 

@justkaypoh

For me, its not about his religion. I couldnt care less of what kind of chicken rice this dude eats. This kind of stuff happens everyday.

BUT if you can arrest 3 kids for making racist comments, I’m sure as heck that you can arrest an adult for making comments such as what this Pastor said.

If you can arrest extremist religious people under the reason of “reasonable suspicion” then why not this pastor?

If you can arrest and jail 2 guys for wearing shirts with their opinion of our justice system, then why not this pastor?

It’s the principle and the action that matters. If this dude does not get some sort of punishment, then that is DOUBLE STANDARD.

To the people who wants to just close down this incident. That is exactly what we should not do. Ignoring and stuffing issues like this (which will happen again and again) into the closet does not do any good. Tackle the issue.

The pastor’s actions seem methodical enough to suggest he knew what he was doing.

justkaypoh on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 12:10 pm 

icarus ,

my reply to you is the same as Joshuatree

As of why the 3 kids/teens and kangaroo shirts guys got arrested, that you have to ask the PAP govt. I don’t agree that they be arrested.

These are not religious examples.

Verdict is not out on the 3 teens yet. I doubt they will be jailed.

Our govt is biased, that’s common knowledge.
Remember the Christian couple was jailed for distributing seditious tracts? What do you say then?

I think warning is enough.

A better comparision will be comparing religious sedition.
So now you tell me, defame Christianity is fine but defame Buddhism is NOT?

I condemn those who defame religion.
So do you condemn those that defame Christianity, even those in this forum?

Should they be treated by the same yardstick? Askking your own opinion, not the govt actions.

sinner on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 1:06 pm 

This case will bring out the true behaviour (the good, the bad and the ugly) of different faith. Of course, there are also those who are taking this as an opportunity to create havoc and stir shit just for fun.

joshuatree on Wed, 10th Feb 2010 1:18 pm 

lol my comment like perfect model for some other person.

@justkaypoh

…. i dont understand what you are trying to get at.

Therefore, insulting religion which plays a far bigger role in one’s well being is only limited to a warning when it comes to the punishment?

“I condemn those who defame religion.”

You think a warning is enough? That doesnt make sense. So making fun of someone’s race is far more bigger than religion? Your verdict is puzzling considering what you wrote. So your version of condemn is a “warning”. So if Al-Qaeda started preaching in Singapore, you would let it off with a warning?

Your comments are full of fallacies. Theres a link about arguments and fallacies posted by someone in response to you.

I have my disagreements with religion but its role is far to big in our lives to just let people off with a warning. In Singapore, where the premium focus is to maintain “harmony”, a warning is plainly pathetic and I am surprised at your verdict.

I couldnt really care less about Christians or Buddhists or Muslims or etc. You seem too biased and apologetic. I wonder what would you do if a non-christian had a pop at Christianity and published the video in public which makes it all the more fair game for us.

For people who condemn christianity, what would you expect them to do? Here is a leader and role model for a church with thousands of members and if a leader can say things like this or even worse, “preach” to his followers, OF COURSE people would associate his actions with Christianity. But so far, I have yet to see someone type “fu*k Jesus”.

“So now you tell me, defame Christianity is fine but defame Buddhism is NOT?”

My awnser to this would be yes. Because of the nature of this incident. We are defaming the pastor. By your logic, if someone slap your face with no provocation, you wouldnt retaliate? Furthermore, I am proud to see that our retaliation is not an attack on a religion but the performer of the action.

On another note, my examples are approriate. All examples are threats to the social harmony of this country.

Interestingly enough, I dont really care about this incident. Personally, this incident would have a far more heavy effect on the economy, bilateral relations and the politics.

While I concede that all religions are exclusive in nature (my god is better than yours etc.), we can co-exist because the main tenets of all religions is peace, compassion and harmony, which is what this Pastor seemingly forgot. The very message that his Christ preach.

FreeThinker on Fri, 12th Feb 2010 4:32 pm 

Stumble upon this blog. Must read.

http://cheee.wordpress.com/2010/02/09/senior-pastor-rony-tan-and-buddhism/

aah-haa on Mon, 15th Feb 2010 2:44 pm 

Call from GOD (long long time ago), and call from ISD (just recently). Rony is a good man, he answered both. When ISD called, he undo his words for GOD.
GOD is Great. ISD is Greater.

peter cheng on Tue, 16th Feb 2010 10:34 pm 

The Rise Of Buddhism In New Zealand
Voxy News Engine, 18 January, 2010
Auckland, New Zealand — What happens when two religions and two world views collide?

That was the question Victoria University graduate Hugh Kemp sought to answer via research that focused on how and why New Zealanders convert to Buddhism.

“Buddhism is gaining traction in New Zealand, so my interest was in what makes a New Zealander become a Buddhist and the variety of pathways they take as they journey towards, and embrace, Buddhism,” says Mr Kemp.

As part of his PhD research, he also focused on the identity that convert Buddhists construct for themselves as New Zealanders.

Mr Kemp interviewed around 70 new Buddhists from all over New Zealand and attended 27 Buddhist events and gatherings. His interviews explored four factors of inter-relationships: practice and ritual, selfhood, belief and involvement.

“It was essentially a qualitative sociology project that tracked why New Zealanders take up the practice of Buddhism and how they continue to find meaning, chiefly in regular practice, ritual and involvement.”

Although Mr Kemp says he was surprised that numbers of New Zealand converts hadn’t increased as much as he’d expected, or as much as overseas trends indicated, Buddhism remained a popular religion here.

“It’s down to a number of factors – the increasing profile of the Dalai Lama, New Zealand’s closer ties with Asia and the fact that we’re quite open to new religions and have a history in New Zealand of people experimenting with new religions.”

Mr Kemp, who also has a Masters of Theology degree, says interviewees’ stories were placed in a social-historical narrative of Arcadia.

“If New Zealand is Arcadia – clean, green, 100% pure and the ideal place to live – then it can be conceived of as a Buddhist Pure Land. Arcadia and the Pure Land come together in notions of ‘home’, offering a new imaginative order for Buddhist practitioners.” Overall, he says his research indicates that new converts overwhelmingly believe New Zealand is a good place to practice Buddhism.

“Buddhists in New Zealand say they will continue to create their own identity and find a turangawaewae or place of identity in which to stand.”

One of Mr Kemp’s supervisors Professor Paul Morris says, “Dr Kemp’s pioneering work, which is the first systematic study of New Zealanders who become Buddhist, tells us both about religion and spirituality in our country and the specific manifestations of Buddhism here.” Mr Kemp graduates with a PhD in Religious Studies and is hoping to teach Religious or Asian Studies. His supervisors were Dr Rick Weiss and Professor Paul Morris.

get your facts right on Tue, 16th Feb 2010 11:16 pm 

aah-haa

Although that was done tongue in cheek, it was, nevertheless, a little bit too disrespectful. Don’t you think what you just wrote was an exact depiction of what Rony Tan did in his video to demean Buddhism? If you could transgress so easily without a second thought (though it was not done with intended malice), so could anybody else. And Rony Tan is just another “anybody”.

peter cheng on Wed, 17th Feb 2010 4:15 pm 

Albert Einstein (14 March 1879–18 April 1955) was a theoretical physicist who is widely regarded as one of the most influential scientists of all time. He is often regarded as the father of modern physics and one of the brightest minds we ever had. It is interesting that Albert Einstein actually think quite highly of Buddhism, unlike many others such as Pastor Rony Tan who made a video mocking Buddhism during his preaching.
Albert Einstein:
“Buddhism has the characteristics of what would be expected in a cosmic religion for the future: It transcends a personal God, avoids dogmas and theology; it covers both the natural and spritual; and it is based on a religious sense aspiring from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual, as a meaningful unity.”
“If there is any religion that would cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism.”
“A human being is part of the whole, called by us ‘Universe’; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest – a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compasion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security.”

KopitiamApek on Wed, 17th Feb 2010 9:18 pm 

peter cheng on Wed, 17th Feb 2010 4:15 pm

Einstein’s quote is diaplayed on a banner at the Buddhist temple at Jalan Eunos.

http://www.mangalavihara.org.sg

Harry TomDick on Wed, 17th Feb 2010 9:44 pm 

**************************************************************
**************************************************************
Albert Einstein:

“Buddhism has the characteristics of what would be expected in a cosmic religion for the future: It transcends a personal God, avoids dogmas and theology; it covers both the natural and spritual; and it is based on a religious sense aspiring from the experience of all things, natural and spiritual, as a meaningful unity.”

“If there is any religion that would cope with modern scientific needs it would be Buddhism.”
“A human being is part of the whole, called by us ‘Universe’; a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest – a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and affection for a few persons nearest us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compasion to embrace all living creatures and the whole nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely but striving for such achievement is, in itself, a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security.”

***************************************************************
***************************************************************

This beautiful gem is worth repeating. It’s message should last till infinity of time.

It is infinitely better to believe a rational person of Einsteins’ calibre than any irrational person.

KopitiamApek on Wed, 17th Feb 2010 11:39 pm 

Harry TomDick on Wed, 17th Feb 2010 9:44 pm

Another Einstein quote which I love:

“A problem cannot be solved at the same level of thinking as when it was created.”

aah-haa on Thu, 18th Feb 2010 1:30 am 

@ get your facts right on Tue, 16th Feb 2010 11:16 pm

“Although that was done tongue in cheek, it was, nevertheless, a little bit too disrespectful. Don’t you think what you just wrote was an exact depiction of what Rony Tan did in his video to demean Buddhism?”

Glad you recognised it was done tongue in cheek. I cannot speak in tongue. Unfortunately, it was not an exact depiction of what Rony did because no ex-Christians were called to witness and no video-recording took place.

I am aware of the many calls for respect: respect for religions, respect for beliefs, respect for believers and respect for non-believers. No worry, they all have my respect as much as I respect my ancestors who for their karmic actions are experiencing rebirth.

Just in case I erred, did I get my facts right?

paul on Fri, 19th Feb 2010 3:05 am 

I don’t see why ISD is called up to visit the Pastor. This further legitimize the ISD. All internal security apparatus which is partisan must not be endorsed. They serve to regress democracy and freedoms of Singaporeans.

Harry TomDick on Fri, 19th Feb 2010 6:45 am 

@KopitiamApek on Wed, 17th Feb 2010 11:39 pm

>Harry TomDick on Wed, 17th Feb 2010 9:44 pm

>Another Einstein quote which I love:

>“A problem cannot be solved at the same level of thinking as when it was created.”
>

Absolutely true. Why create a problem and then continue to propagate the problem when it is evident that it is a problem?