Hardwarezone forumers up in arms over Pastor Rony Tan’s comments on Buddhism
February 7th, 2010 | 
Author: Written by Our Correspondent
A discussion thread on Lighthouse Evangelism Pastor Rony Tan’s comments on Buddhism in the Hardwarezone Forum started on 3 February 2010 had attracted more than 8,000 comments so far.
Two video clips of Pastor Tan’s speech to his congregation were initially posted on his website with the title “Confession of An Ex-Temple Assistant Part 1 & 2″, but has since been removed. A netizen had recorded them and uploaded to Youtube. He was heard during his speech criticizing the central tenets of Buddhism such as reincarnation and meditation.
Many netizens appeared to be offended by his remarks and lampooned him for “ridiculing” Buddhism.
arturuz felt Pastor Tan had “misinterpreted” Buddhism:
“Making fun of buddhism….and what that guy is describing is not buddhism at all, anyway to ask the ISD to investigate this church. Watch part 2 where the pastor made fun of buddhist chanting ‘ting tang tong tong’ and ‘blind leading the blind’ totally wtf man….?”
Nerakhoon shared his views:
“This a$$hole is using a simpleton’s misguided experience to make a mockery of Buddhism which most of us know is nothing as described. Isn’t it weird that this is allowed? It’s a blatant attempt to ridicule Buddhism. Needless to say, it was staged.”
Haoki found the clips distasteful:
“Religion is a faith where one seek solace spiritually. If u dont believe in other religions, that’s your view point and i think everyone is fine with that. I dont understand why certain people have to stoop to this level by blasting and ridiculing other religions.”
168168 added:
“he make fun of buddhism cause buddhism teaching is to live in harmony so most buddhists will not do anything. if he dare make fun of islam, post in YouTube and if some members of Al Qaeda see, he can prepare to up lorry.”
kal127 wondered why the authorities have not take action against Pastor Tan:
“Rational arguments don’t usually work on religious nutters. Oherwise there’ll be no religious people. I’m curious why the police haven’t crash the party and charge him for sedition.”
On Wednesday, police arrested three Chinese youths aged between 17 and 18 for sedition.
Police Deputy Assistant Commissioner Teo Chun Ching warned that the authorities took a stern view of ‘acts that could threaten the social harmony in Singapore’.
Under the Sedition Act, those convicted of promoting feelings of ill will and hostility between different races or classes face fines of up to $5,000 and three years’ jail.
Comment source: Hardwarezone
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195 Responses to “Hardwarezone forumers up in arms over Pastor Rony Tan’s comments on Buddhism”
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What he did was really uncalled for. If anybody believes in his view of belief, then so be it. Why the need to compare and ridicule others’ belief? I would like to see the insensitive pastor get crushed by Christopher Hitchens.
TR should leave religion alone and not worth taking up a retail space here. There is nothing worth to discuss, let hardwarezone which talks alot of crappy discussion host such discussion. Let TR be solely on bread and butter issues.
Buddhists are tolerant and forgiving people, but that doesn’t mean the Christians can criticise and ridicule Buddhism and get away with it!
ISD, MM Lee:
Please use the ISA.
SERIOUS CASE OF RELIGIOUS DIS-HARMONY BY A SENIOR CHRISTIAN LEADER
HE MUST CHARGE UNDER SG LAW.
LIKE THE BELOW CASE.
http://www.temasekreview.com/2010/02/06/arrest-of-three-youths-for-posting-racist-remarks-on-facebook-who-is-a-greater-threat-to-social-harmony/
SERIOUS CASE OF RELIGIOUS DIS-HARMONY BY A SENIOR CHRISTIAN LEADER
He must be charged
I smell double standard here whereby the foreigners and wealthy get away while peasants like the 3 poly kids would get arrested in a flash.
I wonder how the pastor and his congregation would feel if there was a video interview of ex-christian who converted due to his disenchantment with christianity, much like the way this video was done.
More importantly what would the our media and authorities do.
If the only way a religion converts others is to insult and criticise other religions, then i can only feel pity for the converts; it only goes to show how shallow and superficial their evengalising is all about.
Kids donno anything they want to arrest, but adults they leave them alone.
What kind of law and order here in this society?
I hope Singapore is not a Christendom.
TR, frankly I don’t think it’s wise to get involved in this matter. While religious harmony is no doubt an important issue, unfortunately these matters are not as amenable to logical and factual discourse as politics/economics. In all likelihood, this discussion is going to be more destructive than constructive, and may very well turn off some of your audience from this site. Better not touch this hot poker for now.
Gentleman please understand that this is an incident involving one pastor and not the views of Christians in general. Every religion has its share of fanatics and this pastor’s affront must be addressed and if found guilty must be punished according to the law but please do not paint all Christians with the same brush. We are living in a multi-cultural / religious environment and inciting hatred based on differences on religion and race has dire consequences. Remember the racial riots of the 1960s. No body wants it to happen here again. Let the police deal with this religious bigot and the court to judge him. This issue is not like the influx of foreigners as it touches on a person’s deepest beliefs and faith, which if roused by uncontrolled anger can have disastrous outcomes!
“http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryTe7HAWaL4″
5:45 to 7:00
“They tell me, one of the Buddhist person, who argue with me many years ago. If you want to argue and are such a unbeliever he said, next life Pastor Rony you will be born as a woman he said. so you ladies dont believe in reincarnation.”
1) Pastor Rony Tan inferred that Buddhism treat women as lesser being based on his experience with a few Buddhists.
2) Pastor Rony Tan is telling ladies not to believe in reincarnation.
This 2 is enough to charge him for sedition against an official religion.
i watched the 2 videos, and i say:
Arrest him.
No one can prove any god exist scientifically.
No one should mock another’s religion.
Apply ISD on him. Pronto.
Is there Karma?
Cause and Effect of his words on himself?
Any?
Does karma exist at at?
Political correctness can be a major restriction to free speech.
If this is really an internal video mde for the “converted” then the one who needs to be charged is the trouble maker who publicised this video on YouTube.
No credit to the Church as the interviewee – Joseph came across to all viewers as pathetically clueless. Shame that this congregation is now using him to teach their children about their faith.
I would like to call upon that pastor to personally issue an apology to all the good Buddhists not only of Singapore, but of the world. And to immediately stop telling people that reincarnation is not true or is attributed to teh Devil..\
Buddhism is one of the world’s major religions and which is a stark contrast to what this pastor believes in, in that it is a religion of great compassion, love and peace. Can the pastor beat that?
Nothing less than an open apology from that pastor will do. I love Buddhism and the concept and reality of reincarnation, thus I am deeply offended by that pastor.
To Alex Tan – read carefully: the Buddhist person described therein insinuated, not Rony Tan, that women are thus treated. As a Chinese myself who was also once a Buddhist, I know this to be true too so what’s wrong with that knowledge of the truth? Don’t you know we Chinese are guilty of degrading the position of our women? Like “Nu ren shi huo shui” – heard of this before? And what’s wrong telling members not to believe in reincarnation? Muslims also don’t believe in reincarnation and they tell their members so too. Do you want to ask the pappies to charge them with sedition too? Do you really want this 1st world government to adopt some 3rd world sedition charge like the 3rd world malaysian government did?? Think again!
Dear Sir,
Please stop bing an ass without a hole!
For many years past people here respect each other and their religion.
So if you make any comment you should think of others.
Can you guarantee you will end up in heaven, I like to see.
Good boy goes to heaven, bad boy goes everywhere!
Please pastor go knock yourself stupid with a bottle whiskey.
And lets the people know you are sorry publicly!
!
I totally agree with others here for the public apology by Pastor Tan to all Buddhists that he insulted by his insensitive dialogue during his service. I am calling him to apologise in the capacity of one Christian to another as is action is un-Christian and illegal under the Freedom of Religion Act.
Maybe Alex Tan can make a police report against him?
and
TR can organize a boycott of all the business run by this church’s members.
And lucky you pastor these is Singapore not Thailand?
If these is Thailand my holy Cow, what do you think will happened?
Please we enjoy our harmony with each and individuals believes, don’t you spoil it!
Don’t give speech out from your Arse, but have a good a thought before you gob!!!
Even this community want your apology!
As for now I will pay respect to you as I go poo..poo! okidoki
singapore buddhist federation should issue a statement to ask for retraction of his comments. if he doesn’t, take the case up to singapore council of christian churches and ask them to reprimand this pastor.
If he still don’t take back his words, the council should strip his post as he failed to be a good christian , preaching intolerance.
Mocking other people religion, shouldn’t he be in jail now? What is PAP doing?
Isn’t this a seditious case?
James Tan: Are you a retard or did you not view the clips? It is not about disagreements in different religions. It is about a Senior Pastor mocking Buddhism, calling reincarnation “preposterous”; saying that demons and satan put thoughts in both buddhists and monks; it is about making fun of the chanting of sutras; and it is about misrepresenting buddhism through and through.
James Tan
Buddhist and Buddha never put down woman…Confucius did…try not to mess up chinese culture/Confucianism with buddhism
You Rony Tan a pastor or shit stirrer?
People here for many years enjoy religion harmony, and all you want is to poison your follower and devotees into disrespecting other!
You need some good slapping from untie and uncle.
I suggest you publicly apologize to other Religion, especially to Buddhist follower and Devotees.
Did Jesus not say, What you sow is what you reap. Blind fool is he who does not view this as karma.
Jame Tan,
I suggest you write about Singapore only and not drag Malaysia into our topic.
First or third world Malaysia will be their own country, how they want to park their dicks they decide!
DO NOT BRING RELIGION INTO THIS DISCUSSION.
It has nothing to do with religion.
This is an act of an ignorant man leading ignorant people. Kindly comment on that!!!
Kids are being charged for sedition for extreme racists jokes, but yet, adults (that should have known better), belittling other religion is ok?
Let me remind you, the racial riots were done by adults, not kids. We can’t afford to have ignorant insensitive people like ‘Pastor’ Rony Tan and ‘Calls for Jesus/God because Shitting Blood’ Joseph in our midst.
We have the right to our own beliefs and we should not impose our beliefs onto others.
If I am not mistaken Pastor Rony Tan already broke 2 of the 10 Commandments:
“You shall not make wrongful use of the name of your God”
“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor”
To James Tan on Sun, 7th Feb 2010 8:01 pm
Why the fxxk, embroil Muslims in this discussion?
Is there a set of standards for Muslims and a different set for Buddhists by the authorities in Singapore?
To James Tan,
You once a Buddhist and said Buddhism put down women?
Gee…where shit hole you learned Buddhism from? I never heard of that..worse not even in my religious knowledge class where we learn the various religions. I spend my 10 years of education in a christian school with bible class every week, I am puzzle and ashamed of what the Pastor had said and what you James had confirmed. You are definitely not a buddhist once or just a stupid follower.
This Joseph guy convert to Christian because of his chritian wife, period. Either become a christian or dont marry me.Hahaaa..He even confess he cant concentrate and think of other things. Thinking of how to lay your girlfriend/wife in the next date?..sigh…
He is entitled to have his own perception towards Buddhism but who the hell is he to open his mouth without thinking of the social repercussion. Singapore majority (70%) is Buddhism, nice try for making fun, it only show how much ignorance you have.
I do not wish to be drawn into this debate about whether the conduct of Pastor Rony Tan is right or wrong, or whether Christianity is true and Buddhism false or vice versa.
However, I think we should set things in their proper perspective. It appears that TR is on the trajectory again just like it did with the recent case in wrongly associating European conglomerate ST Microelectronics with our own Singapore Technology group.
TR is presenting a rather unbalanced approach to the subject matter regarding Pastor Rony Tan, which naturally evoked a series of reactions from most of the readers. It should have done some responsible editing and qualification before publishing the issue. Here are some of the points which should have been also presented to provide readers with a more objective insight into the matter which was conveyed over 2 threads :
a) Pastor Rony Tan is the founder of Lighthouse Evangelical Church, which was started by him many years back as a personal dedication to God. He was afflicted with a terminal disease and was staring death in the face with weeks to go. However, he miraculously survived against the odds, and believed it was God’s answer to his fervent prayers. That was the turning point in his life and, as he had made a vow to do God’s work should he be cured, he started Lighthouse Evangelist to fulfill his promise to God. That was how it started, and that was how he became its pastor. He did not get his accreditation as pastor through the normal church accreditation process. Lighthouse Evangelist is not Catholic, nor aligned with the protestant sects, such as Methodist, Presbysterian, Anglican, etc. It is an independent evangelistic movement much those in the US such as Billy Graham Crusade. It is charismatic leadership based.
b) In Singapore, any one can start a church or temple (or any other religious house, etc.) as long as they fulfill the requirements as laid down by the Registrar of Societies. This is guaranteed by our Constitution. All it needs is a licence from the Registrar and the necessary finances, and a religious place of worship is born.
c) The subject video was a recording of one of its Miracle Healing services (and sermon) which it conducts regularly and was held within its sanctuary (private compound), and with its congregation in attendance (private meeting). Whatever transpired, therefore constituted a private affair, privy to its members and invited guests only. He was not making a public statement against Buddhism on a public platform, and for the consumption of the general public. In other words, he was not publicly challenging Buddhism, or any other religion as the case may be.
Therefore, we should look at the things that were said in the right context and then ask ourselves whether he had gone overboard with his statement. In my opinion, he would have, if he had said those things at a public forum or platform, e.g. as a guest speaker of some public function, or held it at some open field or other public area, etc. It would have been worst still, if the ex-Buddhist monk had invited him to speak at a Buddhist temple or some other third party or public platform.
There is nothing wrong for people of any religion to question or criticise another religion within the confines of their own privacy, with such criticism meant for the ears of its own members or invited guests. Notwithstanding this, on a broader level, how else can a religion, any religion for that matter, be able to withstand the test of time if it cannot be criticised or questioned?
Buddhism came 600 years before Christ, and Islam came 600 years after Christ. Just think about that.
Finally, I would like to reiterate what Greek philosopher Demosthenes had said 1,600 years ago :
“Nothing is easier than self-deceit. For what each man wishes, that he also believes to be true.”
Thus :
“We believe in whatever we want to believe.”
Regards to all.
Extreme Buddhism – Endurance and tolerance
Pastor Rony and his believers are like spoilt kids in a kindergarden who believes that their father is the richest and greatest dad who can protect them from anything…as a kid he is not wrong but one day he’ll understand there are GREATER man than his dad and he’ll need to be responsible for his actions…depending on IQ, different people will understand this theory at a different stage in life…and in a kindergarden, there will be other kids who are also ignorant about this world who will believe this spoilt kid…like the whole auditorium of people, but one advice to these people, the later you grow up, the harder you will fall when you truely understand reality….
Ho Sun is just a modern version of “ting tang tong tong”..
Part 3 of this BLASTINGS are here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RnJS81rxHQM
He starts calling Buddhism demonic, false religion, satanic …
Only when everyone of us here makes a report to the police, then the relevant authorithies will look into this matter, you can do so by lodging a online report here:
http://www.spf.gov.sg/epc/ePCLinks.html
a police report should be made.
Sneeringtree – by calling another “retard” puts you in the same category of the “accused”. In other words, you are no different yourself. This whole matter is not about differences, but respect for the differences. So deal with the latter, and PLEEEEZE get a grip of what I wrote to Alex Tan about. So Alex Tan and Sneeringtree, answer my question – our Singapore muslim leaders also preach against reincarnation, for there is no such thing as reincarnation in Islam. Do you propose the authorities drag them to court in the name of sedition too?? Come on, don’t sidetrack and make a stand and stop all that pussy-footing.
if a person wants to complain about rony tan to the government, who should he/she contact – MICA, police, MHA, etc??!
totally no idea who to contact. otherwise i would have contacted by now.
So did the 66.6% vote for pappies in 2006 or did they vote for double standards? Oh…they’re the same after all.
One law for peasants, another for elites, another for foreigners. I really should quite this country and come back as a foreigner at the very least.
Chong, Think before you gob – “Sedition” is so, so “third world” and it seems so many in this forum are calling out to shed blood in the name of “third world” sedition. Does it mean we first world Singaporeans are not just “third world” homeless in Sembawang park, but also “third world” in our very minds as well??? Mahathir may be right about us: Singaporeans are first world people with third world mentality. Deal with it.
some checks must be done on this people, school children have been invited for day camp something like that in woodlands, that is not right i believe.
There is another matter that I would also like to clarify. And that is the subject of reincarnation vis-a-vis the teachings as contained in the Bible.
There is a widely held erroneous view that reincarnation is a taboo subject in the Bible. This is not true. Below are a few text in the various Books of the New Testaments where it is duly mentioned :
a) The apostle Paul tells his audience in 1 Corinthians 15:15
“Listen, I tell you a mystery. We will not sleep, but we will all be changed.”
b) Jesus told his congregation in Matthew 11:13-14
“For all the prophets of the law have prophesied until John. And if you are willing to receive it, he is Elijah who was to come.”
c) And again Jesus confirmed the act of reincarnation in Matthew 17:10-13
“And the disciples asked him, saying, “Why then do the scribes say Elijah must come first?”
But he answered them and said, “Elijah indeed is to come and will restore all things. But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him, but did to him whatever they wished. So also shall the Son of Man suffer at their hand.”
Then the disciples understood that he had spoken of John the Baptist.”
There are also many other texts appearing in other Books of the New Testament which contain such reference to reincarnation. So the teachings of the Bible do included reincarnation, but by reference in its occurrence (action) only, and not as a doctrine. Most people are not aware of this fact, including Christians too.
I would suggest that our reader “Harry TomDick” take note of this and not be similarly mistaken.
By the way, I am not a Christian. I just happened to be widely read.
Regards to all.
By sprouting rubbish,
Is he fit to even comment on other great religion?
Is this Pastor satan in god’s coat?
I am very angry about this.
Why does TR fan the flames? Regardless of my personal view of the video, i think this is irresponsible reporting. At the very least, instead of just re-posting hardware zone here. Bring some intelligence to the conversation by examining the context and credibility of what is reported.
This does not help TR compete with mainstream media – you guys just took a step backwards.
Awakening :
So are you saying that religions in Singapore can start attacking each other as long as it is held in their respective church, temple and mosque?
I don’t think this is a healthy sign in a multi-racial, and multi-religious Singapore.
This case shows that what is private can easily become public.
If you do not want anybody to know, better don’t do it in the first place.
And any religion needs attacking others to prosper cannot be said to be a good religion.
Just want to thank TR for the unbiased and factual reporting, otherwise we would never know such a thing can happen in Singapore.
To James Tan on Sun, 7th Feb 2010 11:22 pm
I never liked to talk or compare between religions, but since you brought the matter up.
If you say our “Singapore muslim leaders also preach against reincarnation, for there is no such thing as reincarnation in Islam”, kindly let me know who that person is, and I will deal with him to the relevant Islamic authorities; as it would be a deviant form of teaching.
I am a Muslim, and I question where you get this idea from. We do believe in reincarnation but our understanding of reincarnation is different from Buddhism.
Why do you and some posters keep insisting in embroiling the Muslims in this discussion? Are you getting some sort of perverted satisfaction to stir up religious sensitivities?
@ The Awakening. Can u stop ur irritating preaching here??
The Awakening
You are right. What transpired in a private meeting is a private affair because it was not meant for third party consumption, even if the process recorded in its archive is accessible through the web. The reason is best presented through the following hypothetical anecdote to present a clearer picture of point of law and point of fact :
” In the comfort of his home, a father was lecturing his son who had converted to Christianity from Buddhism, and being happy for this act, he had it recorded on video wherein he told his son that he had done the right thing because Buddhism was this and that and Christianity was this and was that and so forth, etc. He then had the video recording linked to his private blogsite. Some disgruntled visitors, for whatever the reason, copied the video and had it aired on another public forum website. The reactions from visitors of this public website were fast and furious because they had the unfounded and misguided notion that this father was chastising Buddhism and praising Christianity to the public and that the scene was created for public consumption.”
What is the point of fact, and what is the point law involved in this particular story? Was there any transgression in any law there? Against Religious Harmony Act? Against Sedition Act? Based on legal interpretation, there is no “intent” nor any “malice” as defined in the two Acts. It was a case of a happy father welcoming his son into the folds of his religious belief system. The fact that he had denounced the other religion through slander or mischievous remarks did not make it an infringement on any of the provisions of the 2 Acts because it directed at his son and not any other third person unrelated to the event he was recording.
This would clarify the position made by some readers that Pastor Rony Tan should be reported to the Police for trying to sow discord in our religious harmony, etc.
I agree with you that we should remain level headed and not get carried away by emotional strain just because we have seen a video replay of a scene in which the religion of our faith had been attacked by someone else. We must not take a scene out from the context in which it was recorded. That is the essence of the whole exercise.
James Tan, perhaps the Muslims make such comments about reincarnation but did they pull out an ex-Buddhist and make a big joke over the entire event?
Did they tape the whole thing and put on the internet for all to share?
No one says that you cannot disagree. It is the disdain and disrespect that evangelistic Christians show for other religions that grate and create all this posts.
I remember when I was a school boy and a Christian classmate was running around laughing at the idols that we non-Christians pray to at home. That was most probably the day I decided that Christianity is not for me. If one day I really end up in hell, I expect that boy to be next to me.
To Concerned Citizen on Sun, 7th Feb 2010 7:04 pm :
I’m sure a lot of us are aware that he is speaking for himself rather than the entire Christian population. I doubt most logical people would ‘paint all Christians with the same brush’, as you feared.
What peeves most people off is the lack of action taken against him should his views be deemed in the eyes of the law to be extreme and of harm to social/religious harmony.
Not to mention the lack of coverage on the mainstream media, but that I’m not exactly surprised.
For those who think that it is OKAY for a pastor to condemn and teach his members to condemn another religion with the reason of “its within the church”, this is very wrong cos such these members do step out of the church, they would highly potray such attitudes towards non-christians under the doctrination of their church and pastor rony tan.
When we talk about religious harmony, it is not just a show on stage whereby religious leaders shaking hands with each other, its about respecting and acknowledging what others are from WITHIN THE HEART.
Pastor Rony Tan should make a public apology to the Buddhists and general singaporeans as well as dealt with by the police and ISD.
The Lord Buddha says ：
佛陀说：
Guard against evil deeds, control your body. Giving up evil deeds, cultivate good deeds.
善护恶行，身之过失，弃舍恶行，行诸善行。
Guard against evil speech, control your speech. Giving up evil speech, cultivate good speech.
善护恶语，言之过失，弃舍恶言，口言爱语。
Guard against evil thoughts, control your mind. Giving up evil thoughts, cultivate good thoughts.
善护恶念，意之过失，弃舍恶念，善意纯念。
The wise are controlled in deed, they are controlled in speech, they are controlled in thought. Indeed, they are perfectly self-controlled.
智者止一切身，口，意之恶。如是此人为善护者。
Dhammapada Verse Chapter 17 Verse 231 – 234
佛说法句经 17章 231 – 234 截
I don’t agree that TR fan the flames. These videos have shown something very clear-cut. Rony Tan was poisoning the mind of his followers and influencing them to belittle other religion.
Judging from the clapping and laughter in the background, it seems that his audience are supportive and convinced. This is really very disturbing.
Now the ball is in WKS’s court. I wonder how is he going to deal with this religion leader. After all he is not some poly young punk, but an influential religious leader.
This is VERY bad …
The last thing we all Singaporean netizens need to do is to get divided and start slapping each other on religious beliefs. This especially when we have so many Buddhists and Christians united on one thing: to show our mass disapproval of the ruling party and their shit policies lor. After all, election is coming soon.
I’m not gonna take sides here, but suffice to say, if any of us start to berate Buddhism or Christianity and their beliefs here, then we’re no better than the pastor who kena flamed cos of his intolerant view.
Peace out y’all
to The Awakening
You wrote a lot on what constitutes privacy whether Rony Tan made it the event a private or public affair.
The videos were obtained from his website which he posted for the world to see. It was only removed later when complaints came in. As such, you wasted a lot of electrons defending the indefensible.
Now please arrest this stupid pastor and that fake buddhist for being seditious.
Hmm… TR, this is a step backward. I am not affliated to the church, nor do I support his views. And yes I am a Christian.
I wonder why you are putting forth this article and I do wonder if the purpose is to generate traffic. Yet I do not see you putting forth pictures and articles of ‘other’ religious fanatics who enourage killing of ‘infidels’ in a religious setting. I’m sure you can find them if you do a search.
Do you have a bone to grind with Christians? Just the other day I shared my views with another friend:
“In general when Christians are against abortions, gay marriages and genetic manipulation, the world calls them backward, narrow-minded and extreme.
Yet when Muslims do likewise, they are considered strong in faith and should be looked up to in their strong beliefs.”
Do consider these points:
- This pastor is speaking to his congregation. They are entitled to their views and relgious beliefs. I do not think they are extreme, nor do they bother upon eradicating Buddhists. Do take a pinch of it. If it offends you, you have a choice not to listen.
- One man’s views and another may differ. Just because he is sharing his experience doesn’t equate everyone has the same experience.
- In the same of token Seelan Palay portray a movie One Nation under Lee in a private function. The coming in of the police is uncalled for. Many people were up in arms over that. Now aren’t we doing the same thing in policing whose views are correct, whose are wrong?
- The one who posted on the youtube internet should be flouted by the law for an unauthorised publish of the video. Yet this article is skewed towards the pastor is ‘more wrong’. I don’t know who the real stinker is.
Kaffein
As a free thinker myself, this has left me with “Bad Taste.”
Warning:
Parents have to be fully aware and be concerned if their children are being exploited into accepting certain belief that may mislead them and later on, create certain mischief to other faith.
The world has enough troubles between Christianity and Islam. Why stir up problems with Buddhism?
After a Christian was cremated or buried and became dust, when Jesus comes along, they will be in Heaven. If this is not reincarnation or rebirth, what is?
Perhaps, just perhaps, he was a comedian instead of a pastor there.
Then that’s legal. But other than that I want to see this guy charged for trying to create social unrest. Someone with a face book account should go report police xD
At the end of the day, the people here are just paper warriors. Make a lot of noise only and said Rony should be charged, etc. But no one, like that Indian guy, would bother to go down to a police station and make a police report. Just stay behind your keyboard and remain anonymous and continue your complain, complain, complain….
*The Awakwning, James Tan
Herein lies the problem.
Even if such a speech was done in the confines of a private instituition or space like the Lighthouse church, the fact is this: The pastor is telling his horde of converts of
what is right and wrong,
what is the absolute truth and what is not,
what is moral and what is not
what is satanic and what is godly.
These converts will take the words of their pastor as the absolute truth and return to their normal lives outside the church and god knows how will they will propagate Rony Tan’s ‘truths’ in their daily lives.
If one of his church goers happen to go online these views, (or worse in public) and demonise another faith and the authorities act upon this (since it public), who would you blame?
The seed of the plant may be planted within the ‘private’ spaces of dark soil but when it blossoms and grows, it opens it tentacle arms to the wide public.
This is the start of how religions clash, of how people fight needlessly based on what they perceive as their absolute truths. And if leaders cannot see this and persist in pushing for their own version of the truth, then there will be no end to all the conflicts and deaths in the world. After all who can argue against what is ‘right’
And James – Your attempt to drag in another faith into this is totally reprehensible and despicable.
Kaffein
Forgive me, but personally, the moment I hear that you are a Christian, I cannot help but instantaneously and automatically associate you with narrow-mindedness, ignorance and intolerance, not withstanding the fact that on the whole, many ordinary Christians today are influenced by the loving nature of Jesus Christ the Man.
I love the Bible and all other sacred scriptures out there, but I can’t accept condemnation of other religions by Christians. And as far as I know, it is the only religion in the world which condemns ALL other religions.
Even the Muslims do not condemn other religions. They just claim that the Prophet is the latest in a long line of Messengers sent from God. Thus even they do not condemn other religions.
I hope that pastor will be mature enough to apologise for mocking Buddhism in front of an audience.
Kaffein, I think TR had put up this article to INFORM and make AWARE to netizens and Singaporeans that there is the presence of religious elements in Singapore that may cause problems in our multicultural/religious nation. To make fun of other religions is WRONG. I am not a very devout Buddhist, but the remarks by this pastor made be feel uneasy and a tinge of anger.
To James Tan
Now that I have my morning cup of coffee. Let me enlighten you on this subject.
There is no direct explanation of reincarnation in the Islamic holy book, but there are a few inferences to it.
To a Buddhist, the basics of reincarnation is the migration of souls from a body to another (kindly correct me if I am wrong as I am not a Buddhist)
As for Islam, you have only one life to live, and it ends upon death. But it is inferred our souls go through a journey of stages. Life, death and the afterlife.
The problem is, followers like to take the easy way out by believing everything what the Religious preachers have taught, instead of verifying the teachings by understanding what is in the Holy Book. And such ignorant notions is the cause of extremist views as such followers are easily manipulated.
With more than 50% of MPs belonging to the Chrisitian faith, there is a need to allay some anxiety of non-Christians of an occult march “towards a christian nation”!
I will not post any more comments on regarding this issue because from some of the responses posted here it is quite evident that the respondents still do not see reason and facts, and their application of logic is controlled by emotion.
Remember what Demosthenes said, that “For what each wishes, that he also believes to be true.” Our self-deceit really can get to us. And it becomes worse if such inclination is based on self-conceit.
Initially, I had some reservations about getting into the heated reactions made by most on this page (there were a few who gave more level headed response though). This was because I had anticipated that, given the highly charged atmosphere, it would not make any difference as emotionally views do not see reason. That is a fact. When the adrenalin in the body starts flowing profusely, our biological system automatically divert some of the blood from the brain to the muscles (the nutrients in the blood nourished the tissues), to prepare it for any eventual act requiring strength. Manifestations of this excess blood in the bodily tissues can be clearly observed in angry man, look at his fiery face and complexion, and heavy sweat which builds up. These are medical and biological facts. It means that the capacity of the brain in performing all its functions to its full potential will be affected, just like impairment of thought, judgement, and action when it is heavily intoxicated with alcohol.
Under such circumstance, it is better to remain silent as an observer, rather than get involved in such heated debates.
In this respect, I shall discontinue further comments no objective purpose or good can be achieved because the ground have already been set.
*To
ublic and private
*To :Bobo
*To :Sloo
Sorry, for the reason stated above, I will not be responding to your comments.
Regards to all.
I have been contemplating to become a Christian until i saw this piece of news. Thanks TR! you saved me some time and money.
regards
Free Thinker
Have anyone reported this incident to the appropriate authorities? If those offended by these video clips start to write to the authorities, and there are large numbers to back it up, then they would need to take actions. I have done so, and strongly urge you to do so, instead of commenting here. Let the learned judge and courts decide if the comments were seditious. It’s not for us to decide.
http://www.spf.gov.sg/epc/ePCLinks.html
法本法无法,无法法亦法,今付无法时,法法何曾法。
The followers of monotheist religions would probably need another 500 years, if not a millennium, to understand what is Buddhism.
Buddhism is not a religion and should not be debated as a religion.
What is the purpose of debating with the non-Buddhist, when there are so many Buddhists who do not understand what is Buddhism?
@Harry TomDick on Mon, 8th Feb 2010 8:41 am
“Forgive me, but personally, the moment I hear that you are a Christian, I cannot help but instantaneously and automatically associate you with narrow-mindedness, ignorance and intolerance, not withstanding the fact that on the whole, many ordinary Christians today are influenced by the loving nature of Jesus Christ the Man.”
Kaffein> Exactly. I’m not saying I support the pastor or his views. I’m saying it’s not necessary for TR to publish it. It’s a ‘private session’ for Christians. So there is no reason to be in arms over it.
“I love the Bible and all other sacred scriptures out there, but I can’t accept condemnation of other religions by Christians. And as far as I know, it is the only religion in the world which condemns ALL other religions.”
Kaffein> Let me quote to you a translation of the Quran:
“And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.”
If you read the commentary of it, all other `religions’ and ways of life are unacceptable to the Creator if a person is aware of Islam.
“Even the Muslims do not condemn other religions. They just claim that the Prophet is the latest in a long line of Messengers sent from God. Thus even they do not condemn other religions.”
Kaffein> I’ll leave you to verify your own statement.
Cheers.
“Fever Guy on Sun, 7th Feb 2010 5:47 pm
TR should leave religion alone and not worth taking up a retail space here. There is nothing worth to discuss, let hardwarezone which talks alot of crappy discussion host such discussion. Let TR be solely on bread and butter issues.”
Disagree. TR is trying to be an alternative voice to main stream media, providing news that are left out. This is just fulfilling the role.
So this chap believes in making his living from religion har, first as a Buddish temple assistant now as a pastor, what next?
From his comments he clearly does not come across as a very religious person.
@AhMeng on Mon, 8th Feb 2010 9:03 am
Kaffein, I think TR had put up this article to INFORM and make AWARE to netizens and Singaporeans that there is the presence of religious elements in Singapore that may cause problems in our multicultural/religious nation.
Kaffein> There are enough sticky points between various religions. We don’t need more, seriously, with the latest from MacDonalds stirring the ‘dung’. Yet this article wasn’t to make AWARE or INFORM because there weren’t any constructive criticisms or thoughts to the videos.
“To make fun of other religions is WRONG. I am not a very devout Buddhist, but the remarks by this pastor made be feel uneasy and a tinge of anger.”
Kaffein> Totally agree – making fun of other beliefs is WRONG.
I’ve watched the videos a couple of times. I didn’t think the pastor was making fun of the religion. It’s just the way how the exchanges were made. The other ex-monk didn’t help by his simple speak and honest opinions. He surely wasn’t trying to be funny but he’s just like that probably – simply saying what he thinks.
Heh… wait till you see those stand-up comedies in Australia making fun of Christianity. They not only joked about Christianity, they make crude jokes about man and woman’s private parts, they laugh about parents, schools, politicians, etc. How come no one were up in arms? Even women laughed at their own bodily jokes. Didn’t see any woman rights’ complaining. And no I didn’t write anything against the Comedy Night, nor did I protest against it.
Now that’s ‘funny’ because it’s so downright degrading at times that I’m actually shocked people laughed.
So I concluded that the audience knows what to expect when they attend the comedy session. Just like the Pst Rony Tan’s church congregation who understood what they would be hearing when they attend church.
I can’t stop anyone saying nasty things against Christ or myself. The truth is it doesn’t make less of Christianity or more of me should I challenge it.
Shalom,
Kaffein
PS I’ll call it a day commenting on this topic.
Kaffein <<
<< This pastor is speaking to his congregation. They are entitled to their views and relgious beliefs. I do not think they are extreme, nor do they bother upon eradicating Buddhists. Do take a pinch of it. If it offends you, you have a choice not to listen.
This is NOT just differences in religious views, but a blatant misrepresention of ANOTHER religion. It is essentially the same as me teaching my kids that Christianity are inherently immoral because it encourage slavery of blacks because they are descendents of Canaan. So is it okay for me to teach my kids that? I do not think it is extreme as Christian scholars did attempted to use this argument historically. And I am just saying Christianity is inherently immoral, I did not say anything about eradicating Christianity. Do take a pinch of it. If it offends you, you have a choice not to teach your kids the same thing.
<< One man’s views and another may differ. Just because he is sharing his experience doesn’t equate everyone has the same experience.
True. But does Pastor Rony has the duty of care to ensure that other religions are not misrepresented? He did not bother to correct the misrepresentation of Buddhism, but instead he asked leading questions in order to stereotype Buddhism without properly explaining the concepts behind it. In fact, it is obvious the entire "interview" is "staged" to trivialize Buddhism. And Joseph is the WORST Buddhism monk I ever seen or heard. As a non-buddhism, I know MORE of Buddhism than him.
<< In the same of token Seelan Palay portray a movie One Nation under Lee in a private function. The coming in of the police is uncalled for. Many people were up in arms over that. Now aren’t we doing the same thing in policing whose views are correct, whose are wrong?
Read my 1st reply. This is not a matter of views, but mis-education, and disinformation, which can lead to religious disharmony.
<< The one who posted on the youtube internet should be flouted by the law for an unauthorised publish of the video. Yet this article is skewed towards the pastor is ‘more wrong’. I don’t know who the real stinker is.
If u bothered to actually find out more, you would realize that the video is officially "released" in their miracle tv streaming which is public domain. And this is NOT the first time they have done it. And neither is it a "private event".
They have interviewed "ex-temple medium", mocking Taoism. And same goes for their interview with the ex-lesbians. Nothing but mis-education. You get STUPIDER listening to sermons like these.
Dear all,
I quote Mr Goenka – a teacher of Vipassana on his speech to the UN in Aug 2000: –
“Rather than converting people from one organized religion to another organized religion,” said Mr. Goenka, “we should try to convert people from misery to happiness, from bondage to liberation and from cruelty to compassion.”
“When there is anger and hatred within, one becomes miserable irrespective of whether one is a Christian or a Hindu or a Muslim.”
“One who has love and compassion with a pure heart experiences the Kingdom of Heaven within. This is the Law of Nature, or if one would rather, God’s will.”
In summing up Mr. Goenka quoted the Emperor Ashoka who in one of his Rock Edicts said, “One should not honor only one’s own religion and condemn other religions. Instead, one should honor other religions for various reasons. By so doing one helps one’s own religion to grow and also renders service to the religions of others. In acting otherwise one digs the grave of one’s own religion and harms other religions as well. Someone who honors his own religion and condemns other religions may do so out of devotion to his religion, thinking, ‘I will glorify my religion’; but his actions injure his own religion more gravely. Concord is good. Let all listen and be willing to listen to the doctrines professed by others.”
Thanks. For the full speech, refer to http://www.dhamma.org/en/goenka.shtml.
Let make a police report and see what action shall be taken
@Philosophers and Kings on Mon, 8th Feb 2010 1:31 am
@You are right. What transpired in a private meeting is a private affair because it was not meant for third party consumption
As mention earlier by one reader, this is available in the church website (so it can’t be a private meeting). How certain are we that there is not a public person in this meeting?.Even if this is not meant for third party, do you think he can say all those things about another religion? Now that this is out into the public, as a buddhist i am offended.
@” In the comfort of his home, a father was lecturing his son who had converted to Christianity from Buddhism, and being happy for this act, he had it recorded on video wherein he told his son that he had done the right thing because Buddhism was this and that and Christianity was this and was that and so forth, etc. He then had the video recording linked to his private blogsite.
Your father and son comparison to this events is wrong. He is a Pastor of a church and speaking to an audience of his followers and invited guess. The recording was done with the intentions to circulate.
Aiyoh! Aiyoh! This is just another “Ah Meng”-Mark Lee whom likes to create Controversies to proliferate public’s attentions to elevate individual’s social statues in this good for nothing but only mercenary society!
Is he a kid whom does not know this type of public and/or close door criticisms of other religions will definitely has strong impacts on the social fabric of the society, as far as my knowledge enlighten me, most of the pastors are well educated individual with good social standing? Hence, it is mesmerizing why this bunch of idiotic nerds continuously to proclaim uncanny and redundant religious statements to invite counter attack by others? What are their real intentions behind the scene/screen? Are they trying to divert away the attentions of the gullible public’s unhappiness on the ruling party’s economic, immigration, public housing policies, etc, in pertaining to the foreseeable next “G-erection”?
This is not the first time Christian pastor has created public outcry likening to the “AWARE” incident! I sincerely hope with the wisdom of the “GOD”, this bunch of idiotic nerds will cease this kind of unproductive yet destructive proclamation cum promulgation.
Happy Lunar New Year to all of you, my dear TR readers!
Went to several church event/ functions, they tends to mock or degrade Buddhist or Toaist. When they found out i’m not a christian, worst man they just con’t critising our religion. I told them after seeing how they are being nurture and cultivate, I’m 100% sure i won’t be a christian.
and i cant believe that the audience laugh at the remarks makes on buddhism
Please lodge a report at: http://www.spf.gov.sg/epc/ePCLinks.html
kaffein, private sessions or not, what the pastor did was wrong and uncalled for. I do attend buddhist talks, we DO NOT make fun of other religions. Attendees are NOT encouraged to laugh at other people’s religions. Your excuses for this pastor’s antics are weak. The person he interviewed seemed fake and is he an actor or what?Does these antics take place often in private sessions?If yes, I am SHOCKED. I hope this pastor realizes what he did was wrong and is man enough to apologize.
sometime i wonder why singaporean are still so closed minded and resistance to change.
If a religion cannot stand up to public scrutiny, comments and discussion, then it is religiously repressed:-) or is it political repress.
If it is true, let those who don’t believes mock at it. It is their choice. We must learn to allow other to speak what they want to, otherwise it will always be status quo.
Hogan Chua Mui Loooong,
All I can is, regardless of what is being said by who, ultimately you need to deal with God on a one to one basis
If God is real, speak to me. Otherwise, God is not real! Easy, test it. Don’t let what other people says or do affect u. That is the mystery of all life my friend.
Has anyone here lodged a Police Report?If yes, please keep us updated here of the developments.
TR,if the local mainstreammedia are not taking up the issue,please get it up with the international mainstream media..it seems only when international media get going,the local will..
For all those readers here who are posting a lot of emotionally charged reactions in response to Pastor Rony Tan’s conduct, and indirectly, also casting aspersion on Christianity itself, I would like to remind you all to examine what you are writing about, the language, the semantics, and the various insults hurled.
In chastising the self-elected pastor for his stand (against Buddhism) for attacking Buddha and his teachings, these writers are actually perpetuating the very same act which they are condemning the pastor of. They are, inadvertently committing the same “crime” they sought to highlight, but because of self conceit, cannot see this. This is the irony of it all from the display of reactions here.
The writer “Great Asia” is absolutely right in commenting that a lot of people have misconstrued Buddhism, even those in the Buddhist faith. He is correct to point out that, in a strict sense, Buddhism is not a religion because the doctrine does not preach the existence of a God (or any gods for that matter). It is a doctrine based of impermanence of life, and that it revolves round a circle of birth and re-birth until one’s soul attains nirvana, or enlightenment. Over the centuries, Buddhism, through its import into China, has seen the faith being encompassed and intertwined with the mainstream Taoist faith in China, where gods abound by the myriads. And Buddha, and the Boddhisatvas, have somehow been cannonised into gods. Most Chinese, in fact, cannot distinguish clearly between Taoist beliefs and Buddhist beliefs. If Buddhists themselves cannot make this distinction, how can we expect another person of a different faith, such as Pastor Rony Tan, to know the precepts of Buddhism?
In the same light, those who criticised Christianity in this thread also do not have the faintest idea what Christianity is all about. Their dearth in knowledge of this religion clearly shows with the comments they made.
All I can say is that TR seems to have navigated away from its original egalitarian purpose of awakening Singaporeans to the realities of issues, particularly political ones, so that, by providing alternative news, they can get a more balanced view of events or issues of importance to us. The underlying objective was to inform the public so that they can vote responsibly and install a government consisting of leaders who can understand their perspectives and truly represent them (and not serve the elected office bearers’ own interests) in parliament.
But this can only be achieved through responsible editing, as well as presentation on relevant issues, and on subjects that are based on facts, reported in the manner which is well balanced (i.e. to provide both sides of the picture, so that misrepresentation would not happen). I can understand TR wanting to increase its readership and patronage. But sensationalising their alternative news articles, while being the best way to achieve this end, is not the way to go. In the end, it is self defeating, as it will be if TR does not apply the brakes and take stock of the situation. If it does not, it’ll probably end up as just another of the grapevine news site containing articles and views of no import in disseminating values to its readers, but a place where even mongrels can all home. It will then be viewed as a site associated with the baser elements of society (no insult intended – just making a point).
Take a look at fleet street in the UK. The various news sources have their own type of readers, eg. :
a) Daily Telegraph – well known for sports coverage and crossword puzzles, and pro-Conservative Party views.
b) The Gaurdian – a leftist leaning newspaper.
c) The Times – a neutral and near Conservative Party leaning paper.
d) The Independent – though set out to express independent views, have gravitated towards a more liberal-Democratic stand.
e) The Financial Times – concentrating on business and economics issues.
And a host of other mid-market tabloids such as Daily Express, Daily Mail (which is basically a hate mail newspaper), etc., all published for the consumption of different audience group.
It follows that you won’t find the typical common man in the street buying or reading the Financial Times, and so on.
In the final analysis, TR has got to set its own direction on where it wants to stand, whether it wants to be known as a respected website where reason and logic can be found, or a site laden with hate mail and illogical arguments, etc. like what “The Daily Mail” in UK is famous for. So serious people who visit the site only give it a cursory glance and take no further interest on the views contained therein. Sensational reporting, and irresponsible reporting, have no direction other than portraying the medium in which they are conducted to be a source where you can find cheap thrill and idle meaningless talk.
I am sure this is not where TR wants to be headed. It is time to pause for some self-reflection. More good will come out of it, rather than allowing uncontrolled spontaneity to set in, and in the process destroy the site’s original values and its potential as a credible source to be reckoned with.
Perhaps, if I may say so, only the few such as “The Awakening” “Incredulous”, “Great Asia”, and “Kaffein” carry their comments with much control and their views carry more logic and substances. But I am not belittling the others.
The above comments are being made in good faith, and should be taken as such.
I found the pastor’s tone condenscending. I felt the presentation demeaning Buddhism. However, I do not know if he crossed the line to contravene the Religious Harmony Act. Does anybody know?
I don’t think the police can do anything unless somebody makes a police report.
A very serious case of RELIGIOUS DIS-HARMONY.
Both pastor rony tan & joseph are trying to mislead their followers concerning buddhism probably because their followers are beginning questioning their own faith.
这位pastor rony tan 企图要摸黑佛教好让他延续迷惑他的信徒。
Pastor Rony Tan can’t convince his followers so he began to confuse his followers. Ideally to smear other religions to divert his confuse followers.
Anyway if one is doubtful of buddhism can conveniently read books regarding Buddhism at library, bookshops or buddhist temples.
Buddhism is not what they claimed to be.
Website About Simple Buddhism
1) http://www.justbegood.net
2) bdms.org.sg
Note
There is a Australia monk, Venerable Shravasti Dhammika residing at BDMS ( Buddha Dhamma Mandalay Society )
Address :
Address
567A Balestier Road
Singapore 329884
Telephone +65 6352 2859
“Buddhism is not a religion because the doctrine does not preach the existence of a God (or any gods for that matter).”
If you are not familiar with the history and development of the Buddhist Faith and its Doctrines over the centuries, don’t pass unnecessary false comment.
To Police Deputy Assistant Commissioner
Teo Chun Ching
you warned that the authorities took a stern view of ‘acts that could threaten the social harmony in Singapore’.
Are you investigating this serious matter ?
This is many times worst than the three teenagers you caught.
We need to hear from you publicly……waiting
I ever seen some aunties who said that they converted from Taoists or Buddhists to Christians just because they don’t have to burn joss sticks any more! Do you think this kind of conversions is rational?
Police report number : A/20100208/2092
I have done my bit for the sake of Buddhism.
Crap
“Philosophers and Kings” is right. And true and enlightened Buddhist who know the faith well will undoubtedly agree with him.
The doctrine of Buddhism as laid down by Gautama Buddha revolves around birth and re-birth. Karma is essentially one of the products of “cause and effect” that is at the heart of the teachings of Buddha. He did not preach that there is heaven, or a god, etc. The concept of god (or gods) in heaven in Buddhism is due to the faith (in its original form) being enmeshed and partly subverted by the belief system which predominated China during those early period when it was exported there. It came to be “adulterated” with the practice of Taoism and paganism. In its original form Taoism was also based on a doctrine (Lao Tze’s “The Way”) but had been adapted and re-adapted over the centuries by the inclusion of pagan gods which were worshiped by the people in China.
So the statement that “Buddhism is not a religion because the doctrine does not preach the existence of a God (or any other gods for that matter)” is correct. I think you should refer to the Singapore Buddhist Federation and to their venerable monks for further clarification if you are still unconvinced. You should not chastise “Philosophers and Kings” whom you have targeted but not addressed in your post, for not having sufficient knowledge on the matter and making untrue statements when it appears that you are the one who is not enlightened.
Please do not treat my comments as being critical of your views. I thought it beneficial that you should know what Buddhism really stands for.
Regards.
To : MajulahREALS’POREANS
friend you seriously went to report police ???
are they keen to investigate this serious problems?
The police should look into this case seriously.
Poking fun on another religion by a pastor in a mega church is not a laughing matter.
What if later they bring out a ex-Muslim Malay who is converted to a Christain. Then the pastor poke fun at Islam and the founder! Wow! You get my point?
James I respect the freedom of your writing here and I enjoy all the comments here including yours had a point and very well respected.
DR M said then we used DR M no Malaysia is better.
Even opposition win seats, we all still want to maintain good relationship with Malaysia.
My apology though.
Poking fun, I like to see police poking the d batten up his rectum.
Halt him to court strip his title, don’t jail him though make him do public work.
Sentence him to be mascot for 3 weeks, baring the sign I m sorry to Buddhism!
Ex-Police Officer
You are looking in the context of the teaching of the Tharavada; which is the cultivation of deliverance through the Path of Sainthood (Arahant).
The below extract is from the book titled “Buddhist Logic” by Stcherbatsky which is from the point of view of the Mahayanist.
One will needs to understand and distinghish the differences between the three ‘Kaya’. Two are stated below.
Quote:
‘—. The Immaculate Wisdom which was one of the elements of the Saint, became now, under the name of the Climax of Wisdom, identified with one aspect of Buddha’s Cosmical Body, his other aspect being the Svabhavakaya Buddha cease to be human. Under the name of his Body of Highest Bliss (Sambhogakaya) he become a real God. ———. Buddhism in this period become a religion, a High Church.
You would be able to see all the difference ‘Gods’ in a Mahayanist Buddhist temples, and if required, the various Holy
Scriptures that goes with these ‘Gods’ can be make available either in Mandarin or English.
iirc, “Confession of An Ex-Temple Assistant Part 1 & 2″ is another video altogether. it was about a man who used to be a temple assistant to a ‘tungkee’
@philosophers and Kings.
I wish to differ from ‘Philosophers and Kings’on the use of TR
as a platform to discuss only political aspects of singapore society. He implies TR should be an opposition site.
I agree that some statements made in the site are intemperate and
unreasoned just like Ronny Tan. But to ignore a potentially dangerous divide to society and suppress its’ debate smacks of
irresponsibility and bias.He is probably a Christian correct me if I am wrong.
The purpose of bringing out is the undesirable behaviour of Pastor Tan and NOT to hang out Christianity as a religious faith for censure but to censure the unchristian behaviour of a supposely leader of a Christian sect which is a danger to society. Personally I have genuine respect for overwhelming majority of Christians.
Who says a religion must be centred on a theistic god? Whilsts
many would like to consider Buddhism as a philosophy, there is another view that all religions is a form of philosophy, god or no god. He is treading on unknown grounds if he thinks Buddhism is not a religion, his knowledge is probably very superficial. All religions are MAN made and created and inspired by the relevant ‘founder personality’. God did not
write the Koran, Bible, Sutras etc. Men who are inspired or if
you wish
directed by god wrote them. The efficacy of the written word is up to each individual to interpret. There is no
need to denigrate others to gain power etc.
I am an agnostic but strongly believe religions properly practice is overwhelmingly beneficial to society. However, throughout the ages the religious concepts have been abused by
men to wrought carnage on their fellow men. Should we then let
bigots get away polluting and corrupting and poison young minds?
TR should be a neutral platform for citizens to challenge policies and concepts whether from ruling party or opposition
party. The main media is a commercial enterprise circumscribed
by shareholder needs and vunerable to indirect political pressure of the ruling party of the day.
we must evolve our own democratic model taking in tbe best
of east and west and not be mindless parrots of western ideology. the basic human right must be the right to food, clothing, housing, medical care then only freedom of speech become meaningful. Unbriddled democracy of US type with emphasis only on free speech benefits only the strong and rich.
Throughout the ages the religious leaders have use patronage
of property, gold and power positions to control their flock.
Nothing has change.
Our system must be to allow free speech and free assembly as long as it does not undermine society like what Pastor Tan did.
Challenging the policies and status quo of the ruling party is
par. To undermine social harmony at the very basic level is to be strongly challenged.
Pastor Rony needs to apologise to all Buddhists. Telling buddhist teaching demonic is completely uncalled for!
取道圣见,是为魔见。
Singaporean Buddhists should ask themselves why this Joseph Wee has no idea what Buddhism is all about.
For some Buddhists who thought that you know something about Buddhism and is ready to challenge the people in those videos, then I would ask you to think again.
Let’s show Paster Rony Tan what Karma is.
Report him to police and let him reap what he sowed. And let his God help him, apart from helping that other guy to pass motion smoothly.
Imagine if every religious leader resort to spreading falsehood and ridicule other religions in order to gain believers and supporters, our society will be divided instead of us repecting each other’s faith. The foundation of religious harmony will be in jeopardy. A religious leader doing it is worst than that 2 polytechnic kids who is charged with sedition.
Dear sloo, to begin with – TR’s posting of this video is extremely sinister in nature. I am still suspicious as to their true intent in spirit and in letter. At the same time, I feel anguished that this matter has hurt the religious pride and feelings of many here. Since many in this forum are so “righteous” and “blameless”, insisting that the “accused” be dragged into third world sedition charge, how can you, like some in this forum, exercise double-standards by turning a blind eye to this other formidable faith whose teachings are the same in this regard, which has some 1.3 billion followers worldwide, some of whom would not hesitate to chop off your head at the slightest hint of provocation? Why the double-standard of ignoring them but training your gun sight on Rony only? In churches everywhere, we are being preached as to what is right and wrong, absolute truth and what is not, what is moral and what is not, what is satanic and what is godly – based on the Bible, not human opinion – not even the pastor’s. Though I cannot expect you to understand and accept Biblical truths for now, I do find your assumptions that follow extremely flawed. Christians have once been blind but now they see. Though they aren’t perfect, they aren’t dumb too, just like people of non-christian faiths. We don’t blindly follow our religious leaders like those of Jim Jones, don’t you agree?
James Tan on Sun, 7th Feb 2010 11:22 pm
“our Singapore muslim leaders also preach against reincarnation, for there is no such thing as reincarnation in Islam. Do you propose the authorities drag them to court in the name of sedition too?? Come on, don’t sidetrack and make a stand and stop all that pussy-footing.”
The difference here is that the Muslim leaders here doesn’t mock buddhism. So pls dun drag the muslims in.
@Kaffein
Is it appropriate for you to compare “stand-up comedies in Australia” with Pastor Tan’s speech to his congregation?
Imagine there is no religion, the world will be more peaceful and a better place to live. Cheers.
It was not private.
http://www.lighthouse.org.sg/miracletv.asp
Disrespect shown in private is still disrespect.
Dear ruinman, is that the truth you speak, or you merely assume? I don’t assume. I read, listen, study, investigate and confirm the former three thoroughly. May I assume you do too? Well, I happen to study the major religions in depth and breadth, so I have the privilege of knowing more of these faiths than many of their own devotees. I didn’t drag anyone in, in as much no one drags other Christians or Christian leaders into this whole religious whirlpool.
无知最无奈
Ignorance is not bliss
By nature, religions have followers and those who thirst for power can abuse their influence using religion especially if they have no proper education or have any other value creating skills.
They prey on the weak or those who are not in a position to challenge them.
I hope the Singapore government is monitoring the situation – please let them do their job.
No one ever wins by putting down the other person’s ego or beliefs. And the Dalai Lama, all other senior Buddhist monks, and the Pope recognized this.
shame on you Pastor Rony Tan.
Your god will come after you……………..and Police Force will charge you soon
From this video, we can see that the Sri Lanka Monk mentioned in the conversation is a honest man. At least he knew that he did not attain Nirvana. This is in contrary to the lot of Christians who always think they experienced God. No one knows if it is true or not.
if what is spoken is to be taken seriously…
“Police Deputy Assistant Commissioner Teo Chun Ching warned that the authorities took a stern view of ‘acts that could threaten the social harmony in Singapore’.
Under the Sedition Act, those convicted of promoting feelings of ill will and hostility between different races or classes face fines of up to $5,000 and three years’ jail.
Then why is there no action on this matter? who can i trust to do what they preach?
Everyone only know how to 讲耶稣
*James Tan
U are confusing the issue and my reasoning is not flawed. Nowhere was Islam brought into this discussion or debate till you chose to include it as a strawman argument.
Muslim may not believe in reincarrnation but they do not mock buddhism here. Just as Buddhist may not believe in the Holy Trinity but we do not mock christians – in public, or in our scared institutions (unless provoked).
If you have an example for such a situation where muslims have mocked buddhism locally, pls share it with us time place and date. There a lot of things in the Bible (esp the Old testament) that i find offensive but I do not go up on a pulpit and condemn christians.
The pastor here is on target cos he chose to upload these videos onto a site for the public. And the public reacted accordingly. Undoubtedly the same reaction would happen to any other religious leader who did a similar act. But no one else has – except for an infamous quote from an infamous pastor from COOS. So where is this a double standard?
And i am really happy that you have found you absolute ‘truth’ but know this: there are many absolute truths and for some others, there are none. Just cos you have your truth does not give you the right to impose it or criticise others who do not share in this judgemental ‘truth’ of yours. And for your information, even within different churches there are various interpretations of the ‘truth’ so do pray tell me which ‘truth’ should we listen to?
And with your remark about thinking christians, do visit the site ‘American Taliban’ in the net for some truly choice quotes from enlightened christians. I am sure you will find many who are just as intelligent and forward thinking as you.
Tan
Don’t let your power of reasoning be clouded and affected by bias in critical observation. There is nothing in my thread which at any time convey the slant that I am a Christian or a Buddhist. In fact, I am a free thinker believing in the universal concept of god, not so much as a person to be worshiped but rather as a force of creation which determines and is responsible for everything that exists and that “everything that exists, exists for a for a purpose”.
That was the first mistake you made in misreading the full text of my comments.
Your second mistake is your view that I implied “that TR should be an opposition site”. Another misreading and false implication. My suggestion was very clearly stated, that “TR has got to set its own direction on where it wants to stand, whether it wants to be known as a respected website where reason and logic can be found, or a site laden with hate mail or illogical arguments, etc”. There are 2 inferences to be drawn from this statement, and unfortunately, you did not manage to observe either of them.
The first inference is that TR should move to the middle ground by publishing subjects of interest by adopting responsible editing which incorporates well balanced points of view (hence independent views, as an alternative to the state controlled media view).
The second is that TR is already viewed as an opposition site by my mention of hate mail, etc (against the PAP) and by the succeeding paragraph where TR’s “original values and its potential” was mentioned. And we all know what its original purpose was.
I hope that clarifies the misconception that was raised. On your other discourse on the various aspects, qualities and virtues of the religions mentioned, I have nothing to add as I have no desire to be drawn into subjects that relate to the foundations of individual religion, not so much because I do not have any knowledge or insight on them (which is not the case) but rather for the reason I first established at the point paragraph above, i.e. divinity has a completely different meaning for me.
Regards.
@James Tan
If Pastor Rony didn’t drag Buddhism in no one would bother with him. I don’t know if this is kama at work or what
Before this incident I don’t even know if he exist in this world.
btw Are you related to Rony Tan ?
Somebody had make a Police report so hold tight let the relevance authority decide if there is a case or not.
Since you are so well verse on religion thing can you tell me is Rony correct to insinuate Buddhism is demonic as in the 3rd video with Rita.
I wonder why the ex-monkl original video in the website is taken down or could it be another miracle.
Crap
Thank you for providing further text on the subject of Buddhism. I shall, for the benefit of other readers here not of this faith (the Muslims, the Christians, Hindus or devotees of other faiths), not go further into its precepts, etc.
Those text that you brought up actually substantiate and reinforce my earlier comments the original teachings of Buddha DID NOT have the god element in the faith. It was their later days “saints” and arahats who introduce this element through their own interpretation of the original teachings of the Buddha who became elevated to be known as the Divine.
I do not wish to go further than this out of courtesy that discretion should be shown since they are readers of other faith here.
I thank you for the lively exchange of views.
Regards.
I’d just to say that, assuming the basic premise of all this hostility toward pastor Rony Tan is because of the apparent threat his comments hold toward the social harmony of Singapore, the only reason why anything anybody says would cause religious tension would be due to the people who take offense at it. I’m not denying that what the pastor said was insensitive, and that he is grossly misinformed about buddhism, what I’m saying is that problems like this can be solved with an explanation and an apology. All I see are comments for the man to be burned at the stake for what the man has said. The idea is to let people know that what he said was wrong, not punish him as severely as you people see fit.
Each of you guys come up with your own judgment. But seriously, I believed that all these judgments should be left for the judges. By calling the pastor funny names doesnt make you any different from what you have perceived him. Think hard about it if your brain can take it.
Furthermore,I dont think anyone here has the mental capability to make any sound and impartial judgment. So why not do something useful for the society by spending more time studying and upgrading yourself to gear up for recovering economy. Gosh, I feel so stupid posting something here.
Getting back to work. Ta ta.
James Tan, you speak of your depth in these religions. I boast of no such expertise in this field but I have yet to see you exercise your self-proclaimed knowledge in this discussion. You have been using one of the technique of neutralization to defend this Rony person/Christian by saying that others do worse things.
I am sure that you (that I assume) and other Christians are offended when other people mock your religion. Likewise, I trust that if you have put yourself into the Buddhist viewpoint, you will find that Rony has derided the religion unnecessarily and causing much offense.
Please do not find excuse for this Rony person ‘cuz he has clearly done so. Do not attempt to defend by saying that he is speaking private/speaking the truth as we have no idea which religion is the truth until we have left this mortal world.
Below is the full text of Pastor Rony Tan’s apology:
“I have received a number of emails from people who have been saddened and hurt by the testimonies of an ex-monk and an ex-nun. I realized that my presentation and comments were wrong and offensive. So I sincerely apologize for my insensitivity towards the Buddhists and Taoists, and solemnly promise that it will never happen again.
When we have received those emails, we immediately removed the video clips from our website. I urge those who have posted those clips on the YouTube to remove them as well.
After reading the frank views from those emails, I was also prompted to tell my members not only to continue to love souls, but also to respect other belief and not to ridicule them in any way, shape or fashion.
Let’s put our goal to build a harmonious Singapore a top priority.”
Was there any fanning of hatred by Pastor Rony? Did he ask the congregation to torch a shrine of others or anything?
The answer is no.
He is not fit to be a pastor leading his followers.I am also doubtful if the ex-monk is also fit to teach in Sunday school either. It’s a blessing that he did not become a head monk and mislead the Buddhists. The ex-monk is also feeling uncomfortable during the interview. Rony Tan has to be prosecuted by the law in order to prevent similar incident from happening.
Buddha’s teaching is to live in harmony and respect all religions.
If Rony Tan can spend some time to understand what Buddhism is all about, he will NOT DARE to say/act all that childish rubbish.
The Police may not take him down, no problem, our dear WKS may keep quiet, fine too.
When the day(EOL) comes, he and only him will know the true, whether his believe will bring him to haven or the opposite.
Buddhist don’t challenge others, we love peace, that is what Buddha teach us.
Buddhism is all about Buddha’s teaching, of what the universe and beyond, what scientist just know was already told by Buddha 2500+ years ago, there are still huge amount of knowledge in many sutra that scientist may takes ten/hundred or thousand (if we still survive) to find out and prove it.
Poor Rony Tan, life on earth is only tens of years, but beyond that is a long journey, if you choose to be in a less comfortable path, so be it, your choice. No one can help you.
There are far too many written in sutras that became true nowadays, that was written more than 2500 years ago, my friend, you just DUNNO what you DUNNO.
I wish you all the best and enjoy your remaining years in this life on earth, you will know where you are going after that, but maybe just too late……..
CitizenofSG,
So isit right for anyone to start to mock at Jesus calling christianity as false religion, demonic , satanic and the teachings of the bible as RUBBISH.
issit right ?
@citizenofSG
Strawman. We’re talking about his show of disrespect.
If you need fanning of hatred or torches before you start reacting, that’s your business.
@marine – I find many Buddhist whom I personally know as very kind hearted and nice people. If you are a Buddhist, I am sure you are one too.
If your ulterior motive is to condemn another person to end up in jail or to suffer in order to satisfy you because he err, then you who never err in your life cast that first stone.
People…people… dont get too emotional coz later you will not see a hole in front of you and thus fall. Just like the ex-buddhist guy.
If you feel that by giving just an apology is not sufficient and Pastor Rony should be dealt with the law by the police and isd. You can voice up to the police, trust me, its very helpful and useful. I can’t reveal much but when the police gets a record of voices made, its gonna be very useful.
http://www.spf.gov.sg/epc/ePCLinks.html
thank you.
James Tan –
“To Alex Tan – read carefully: the Buddhist person described therein insinuated, not Rony Tan, that women are thus treated.”
who would care what the Buddhist person say had Rony Tan quoted him in the first place?
“As a Chinese myself who was also once a Buddhist, I know this to be true too so what’s wrong with that knowledge of the truth? Don’t you know we Chinese are guilty of degrading the position of our women? Like “Nu ren shi huo shui” – heard of this before?”
As an independent Atheist and Chinese, you are quoting the Chinese Language out of context to serve your argument.
“And what’s wrong telling members not to believe in reincarnation? Muslims also don’t believe in reincarnation and they tell their members so too. Do you want to ask the pappies to charge them with sedition too?”
They dont believe in reincarnation but they don’t bring in the names of “Buddhism” and “Taoism” like Rony did, isnt it? worse, Rony made a video clip out of this. isn’t he asking for it?
“Do you really want this 1st world government to adopt some 3rd world sedition charge like the 3rd world malaysian government did?? Think again!” ”
on my personal capacity, i support the use of Internal Security Act, but i do not support the abuse of it. It should solely be used for Terrorists like Mas Selamat, and not Opposition Members.
>>”Poor Rony Tan, life on earth is only tens of years, but beyond that is a long journey, if you choose to be in a less comfortable path, so be it, your choice. No one can help you.
>>There are far too many written in sutras that became true nowadays, that was written more than 2500 years ago, my friend, you just DUNNO what you DUNNO.”
>>>>
Yes, absolutely true and beautifully said!
Even in the movie “Avatar”, the concept of transfer of consciousness is hinted at.
Fiction of today can truly become truth of tomorrow.
>>
shhh.. on Mon, 8th Feb 2010 10:53 pm
>>
>>>>>>>
shhh,
Your remarks are highly insulting to the intelligence of readers here.
I hope you will also apologise immediately, like that pastor has already done.
In belittling readers here, you are not much different from that pastor! When will you apologise?
I have attended a service before, and I must say although they are deeply devout, almost to a fault, I did find their preachings quite high-handed and self-righteous. They often use songs for praise, but I found nothing beneficial from the sermons because it was more keen on scaring (they like to use hell and satan) and praying for good fortune for themselves than peace for the world. It was rather inward-looking and I found their approach quite conceited and self-serving. I did also notice that they did not hold a regard for many other beliefs except theirs. I am acquainted with some of their people, and they zealously belief only in their faith. This is a personal viewpoint, but I found it disturbing. I also had a feeling he (pastor tan) had political ambitions because he actually composed singapore songs and sang it with such aplomb during service, which I find it strange. I have no problems with having Singapore songs, but I wonder.
Finally, the man who claims to perform miracles at miracle rallies is in need of a miracle to save his butt !
Jesus said ” If they are not against us, they are with us”, by his comments about Buddhism & Taoism, he has just given Jesus a slap in the face.
I am sure he has said many other things about Hinduism, Islam, Catholism as well as other faiths but were not recorded on video. It was his ‘luck’ to have this captured on video and he had the audacity to put it up on his church’s website.
i don’t believe pastor rony tan apologised sincerely . he did not tell the truth about ISD warning him but said he recieved emails from many people .as a senior pastor he should had come clean with his apoloise and told the truth . further more whether it’s ISD , ISA or the police please do take action against this pastor or singaporeans aothers around the world wwould believe big shots like him can get away scot-free.
please do take action
thank you
Pls forget and forgive. Pastor Rony is after all a human who will commit mistakes at time. Who dare say you have never committed any mistake in your life? You are sowing discord and disharmony.
The problem now is not about forgive and foget! Cases happen only recently years ago where kids got caught on such issue, but this time is on an adult where he’s a public faces. Think for this, kids got probation and school and friends start to think differently on them, they afraid and maybe even ruin their life. But this pastor just get away with warning, WTF is that? Is it because theres some other money stuff with the government??? Where is the law? We as citizen that come so far trying and building up since long time ago to build up multi-races and multi-religions to have all this harmony. But look, it does not really work it out as media and authority just lightly brief thru. Its gonna be a good laughing stuffs to many countries.
Whether he apologised or not is not relevent here, all criminals apologise when they get caught. He is a leader that will poison the minds of thousands that it is ok to belittle and laugh( I can hear laughter from the audience) at other religions. ISA must take immediate firm action so that no other religion leaders will do it again regardless. The public are watching…
LionDavid, he “got away” with a warning because he can’t be charged. He was speaking to a Christian congregation and he was in full consciousness of that fact. He was speaking in HIS OWN CHURCH. The context is TOTALLY different from the 3 racists boys who posted racist sentiments to everyone, all and sundry in a public platform.
Its because Pastor Tan did not actually do anything wrong that he was “let off” with a warning because he didn’t actually do anything wrong. He was rapped because there were protests from people who watched the videos online but who were not present at his church, are not Christians and whom the sermon WAS NOT MEANT FOR!
Blame it on modern technology then.
Pastors have the right to preach what they deem to be correct in their beliefs to their own flock in their own house of worship. Period. If you can’t get that into your head, you just have super low IQ, that’s all.
Pastors claim to be spokesmen for god.
“Only human” is hardly an appropriate description for such a claim.
This is not the 1st time or isolated case. Is a VERY COMMON practice for Christian pastors to redicule other religions esp. those they target to convert. My bro who experienced this before, walked out from the Christian church his wife attend. ISD please arrest this pastor as a lesson to other church and other religious leaders. We need to tell everyone that the Government is taking this seriously and will NOT TOLERATE such irresponsible behavior. Malaysia arrested the facebook teen!Singapore should be even better than them right!!
Secondly, Government may want to start regulating this independent churches and their pastor finance. These multimillion churches are huge money making machine for the pastor… TRANSPARENCY !! TRANSPARENCY!!! TRANSPARENCY!!!! DO CHARITY instead of Building Billion DOLLAR COMMERCIAL BUILDING and Misguide their churchgoers by using holy names..ie Noah’s Ark. Are these self proclaim Divine Individuals or Just Conman who are good in Preaching!!
Rony Tan is taking all the people in the world for a ride.
By asking someone not even know what is Buddhism to express his unrealistic experience with a wrong mentor (or maybe Joseph think that way), and said Buddhism is ……. Rony, please read the fundamental about Buddhism, you are really poor boy trying your luck.
If Madam 许哲 at 100+ years old converted to Buddhism, you think she is silly? think again, she is a highly regarded figure that Christian community should known.
The true is out there, it is only you have the 福气 to receive it and find it.
Now, with the comment from the net community, I think government (if you are really fair, not fear) about religion, to check Rony Tan’s account and his church. For $50,000 a willing to die for the hospital monk was charged so heavily, churches should also be audited, the way churches host their service is undeliverable, to the extend of like a mini National day celebration, MONEY MONEY MONEY…. rather than helping the needy, they just enjoy themselves? if this way can go to haven, than who will go to hell?
Jesus love all, not just christian, do verify this fact in bible, maybe it is about time to open eyes and see who is the devil and what the devil is trying after all, don’t follow the wrong guy, enjoy is short, suffer can be eternity, it simply not worth.
Good luck, and find the right path sooner.
maybe the authorities should check his nett worth today.
I am saddened with all the above comments posted in regards to Pastor Rony’s sermon. What was construed in his message maybe distasteful to many or an insult to Buddist.
What many failed to see is the true revelation experienced by the person who shared his testimony. Neither Pastor Rony nor Christians force a non-Christian to convert to Christianity. Only God can convict your heart to see and experience His touch in each individual’s life.
I attend Miracle Service on Saturday and countless times I have witnessed how our Lord heals various sickness (various types/stages of cancer and also emotions). They believe too receive Christ in they life only because they felt God’s healing touch and unconditional love.
And because Pastor Rony is a humble servant of God, he came forth to give puplic apology for his insensitive comments. Jesus taught his disciples to forgive and pray for your enemies and I’m sure many Christians like me are praying for not only Pastor Rony, Lighthouse Evangelism Church, all other church workers and also those who posted ‘hate’ comments for peace, love harmony and most importantly forgiveness.
God bless everyone from all walks of life and faith.
May our peace goes with you.
“I attend Miracle Service on Saturday and countless times I have witnessed how our Lord heals various sickness (various types/stages of cancer and also emotions). They believe too receive Christ in they life only because they felt God’s healing touch and unconditional love.”
Miracle healing?? Then why God won’t heal amputees? If you are sick my advise to you is to seek doctors for medical advise urgently before its too late like the below case:
Girl Dies After Parents Pray for Healing Instead of Seeking Medical Help
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,341574,00.html
Fauziah,
The problem is not him converting someone, but rony tan calling buddhism demonic, false, rubbish and blind.
@well,
So are you suggesting that it is right to call Buddhism demonic, false, rubbish within the church?
I was saddened with the issues of Pastor Rony Tan, is the people go the church and testify how GOD touch and change them.
As a person who listen to the people testimony will surely will ask questions of how? when? after becoming what different you see and so forth.
So what pastor Rony comments were just words from the converts
sharing of their belief before they become a christian.
They are not pastor Rony’s own words. He Is just interviewing
the converts and try to clarify some issues which the church members might not understand, especially the non-chinese church members. Ligthhouse is a multi-racial church. Many came and they were touch and healed physically and emotionally. So obviously, these people would like to share what Jesus had done for them. This is just my point of sharing, not trying to protect Christianity . It is the truth!
Please ask Police to catch him
With all the talk and discussion abt the importance of RACIAL HARMONY, by going on and on abt this topic will further encourage racial DISharmony. So i wld think its only appropriate for all of us to quieten down and do some reflection on how we shld view this issue before jumping to whatever conclusions and slamming each other’s religions.
I feel very sick when people critise other people beliefs. If you need to run-down other religion to spread your own religion, it goes to show that yours is not up to the mark.
Grow up my dear.
Please find the right Path, mr Rony Tan.
Hi Marine: I’m sure Pastor regrets for his wrong choice of words.
To Sigh!: In the Miracle Service, Pastor Rony encourages people to seek medical advise too. However, in my opinion it is an individual’s belief and faith in Lord that brings healing.
For an example, personally I was healed from several ailments on various counts.
We can all argue till the cow comes home….but the bottom line is to maintain racial harmony (as our Singapore Pledge)we should continue to respect all races and religion.
Most importantly I’m sure we are glad we are civilized Singaporean.
I’m not a member of Lighthouse Church. I noticed that Pastor Rony Tan is speaking to his flock in his own church. Why outsiders who are not present there are listening to him, and complaining when pastor is not speaking to them.??
Anyway, many chinese i met said Buddha is chinese, but many Indians said Buddha is Indian. So, who is right.???
Simple people like us could see that those comments by the said pastor IS wrong…
Is he a lesser than simple?
As far as I am concern, it is totally unacceptable for someone of his status to commit to those comments.
Alex,
Even if your are talking to your own members, you should not run down other religions. What more you post the vidoe clip on your web-site.
Alex Teo,
So it is OKAY for him to call Buddhism False religion, demonic, blind, rubbish WITHIN his own church and to his own congregation?
Lighthouse and Rony is defintely not the first and only church that does that here in Singapore, many churches does that too … an average singaporean would have met these evangelists, does you church teach that to your own congregatin also ? if also, pls tell me … i will flim it down.
Fauziah,
it not only a wrong choice of words, its is technically and morally wrong deep from the heart to condemn and to teach its members to condem, amuse and mock at another religious belief.
PASTORS are people who lead being inspired by the holy spirit, in this case of Pastor Rony Tan, was the holy spirit leading him to make such statements … OR ….. DEMONS at work again?
PEUODIA,
Rony Tan called Buddhism False religion, rubbish, blind and demonic not the ones being interviewed.
Since he posted the “evil” youtube video, ask him to post an apology one and to ask for forgiveness.
@Alex Teo
Your argument is that seditious behavior in public is not okay, but disrespect shown in private is alright ?
The issue is his behavior, not his audience, not his location.
On top of that, it was not private in the first place. It was posted publicly on http://www.lighthouse.org.sg/miracletv.asp .
For those who are giving hate comments- you may continue to do so but on one condition; if you in your whole entire life, have never spoken ill of another regardless of race or religion, it doesnt matter. but if you have spoken ill of another than you may judge.
i personally think it is impossible that a human being can live on without speaking ill regarding others in every aspect be it on religion or race or on upbringing or whatever.
So seriously, all you people are doing, is just jumping at your own joy to attack someone. when in true fact, you yourseleves aren’t perfect. Noone is.
‘well’ you said he did nothing wrong that why he is only given a warning, you mean mocking and insulting other religion is not wrong then I really dunno what he must do to be consider wrong.
pastor have the right to preach what they want in their church but if his preaching is against the LAW of Singapore and is out in the open then his must face the PUNISHMENT. One pastor wants to lead a crusade and now another belittle other religions…really worried if many of them think the same way!!
Pastor Rony, can you tell us which religion, the air that you breathe in belongs to.
Many people fail to see their own speck of dirt in their own eye but ready to criticise others.
Nobody in this world is perfect and righteous. People, stop condemning him. He had apologise so move on. One misjudgement of expression doesn’t miscredit Pastor’s other good deeds.
Wake up Singapore to a more sunny side of life. If we are expecting revenge and hate, then this world will continue to produce more extremist.
Learn to quick to forgive…give and receive love….isn’t that what all religion preach.
The free air we breathe belongs to all and created by ONE ominipotent GOD.
>>
“…the air that you breathe in …”
>>
Some people may say you are breathing air contaminated by the Devil if you don’t breathe it their way, lol.
He is wrong by saying that. I felt guilty for him.
But then why the Da Vinci Code book did not attracted such attention ? It’s exactly insult Christian as well by saying Jesus was married ? the fiction novel available in Singapore Public Library.
talking about double standard.
Fauziah,
Apolgy is a of course..
Facing fair punishments from the LAW now is equally important, nobody can do something wrong and say sorry and end of it.
Do something wrong, face the music, dun expect to run away with an apology.
Rodney Sim Hang Nge , an elder at the Lighthouse Evangelism church paid for SEX with underage girl.
LIGHTHOUSE EVANGELISM CHURCH ELDER PAID FOR SEX WITH TEEN
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking+News/Singapore/Story/STIStory_406420.html
@dan
Da Vinci Code is a movie. It is a work of fiction.
so far only a few people here think Rony tan comment is correct. if he is correct, then why ISD invite him for a drink?
if he right then why he need to remove the video?
Alex Teo and James Tan the both of you, either you are his frens of relatives that why siding him. Anybody that have a mind to think will feel that his speech is totally wrong. Yet the 2 of you think is right? or the 2 of you also need ISD to invite you for a drink as well?
bc
Dan knows that Da Vinci code is fiction he already mentioned that the “fiction novel (is) available in Singapore Public Library.”
You missed reading that line. YOU’RE FIRED !
Wow, that news from “Marine” really sensational! It will probably up TR’s readership somewhat when others come to know about it, LOL.
Anyway, pastors are after all just ordinary men. Men are men, whether they call themselves ‘men of God’, or anything else.
For that pastor Rony, I’d say he’s also just an ordinary guy who is skilled in speaking to and entertain an audience, but nothing more. It’s just that he used that speaking skill to address a ready market, ie. people who are willing to be convinced and believe him.
As for punishing him, it doesn’t serve any purpose to change him, whether he is locked up or just given a tap on the wrist. Nothing will not change his spots. we will just have to accept them as part and parcel of a dynamic and varied world we live in.
@YOU’RE FIRED
Yes, are you suggesting that they are the same ? That the bible, is also a work of fiction ?
If not, why the comparison ?
@Nigel
They did not meet for a drink. They did not even meet in person.
ISD called Pastor Rony up *over the phone*.
EVERYONE COOL IT! LETS MOVE ON. Singapore needs to learn to be tolerant. Let’s remember… “A house divided against itself will not stand”Remember the sad events of July 1964 riots.
Google the net, look for the fundamental of Buddhism, reading =/= to submitting, but to better understand.
For non Christian / free thinker, this will enrich your life if you have the blessing to find the right articles.
For Christian, it will be good for a clearer general understanding on what Buddhism is all about. You don’t have to believe or convert, just to have a better understand on what life is all about, and whether you done will brings you to haven? or you need to do something else to achieve that.
Everyone is entitle to their own believe, this can be caused by environmental, like born in Christian family, to survive, etc.
Or by influence, friends, etc. Do some serious thinking and ask yourself are you on the right path to eternity happiness? the answer may shock you !!!
Many told me they became christian as this is trend, I think this group of people is the most unfortunate, what happen if tomorrow some other religion “becoming the latest trend”? convert?? sad…….
For whatever reason it is, ask yourself what are you doing is it justify for eternity life, or to the minimum, are you able to reach that stage?
Scientist has proven many points stated in sutras which written more than 2500 years ago, what does this means? There are huge wisdom in sutras, it explains many questions we all want to know, even questions that we don’t even know that we need to know, ask yourself, where is all this came from?
Rony Tan is a poor and unfortunate person that go without the blessing to know the truth, or maybe he choose to ignore it and try to state his “own facts”, I felt sorry for all his followers, contributed their time and money to the wrong mentor. I believes if the AG do some check on him, he will be in bigger trouble than now.
Bless him, good luck moving forward.
本是同根生，相煎何太急!
As a Buddhist, it is crucial that the government should deal with Pastor Tan in accordance to the Law. Even the prominent monk Ming Yi was not let off in his mismanagement of Ren Ci fund of 50K, and he was jailed, the government shall prosecute Pastor Tan accordingly and fairly. Otherwise, as a Buddhist, there will be another misconception that the government is in favour of Christianity and more lenient, but bias towards Buddhism. I am not promoting hatred, the apology heal some of the anger, but the law is a law and need to be dealt with seriously.
The bias treatment between NKF and Ren Ci already upset many Singaporean, especially Buddhist, it is not to say that Ming Yi should be let-go, but the amount involved and the sentence given were too obvious towards biasing.
If this time either ISD or government do it again, I think many (and more) will exercise their rights at the appropriate time come.
Drinking coffee, warning and apology is simply too obvious towards bias to certain group of people. Unless this is the set standard for people doing the same, and that will invite more similar incidents since the outcome is so brief.
Good Luck!!!
wow, really tiring and time-consuming to finish reading all the comments… anyway, conclusion is what SINGAPORE really do Not want is kinda happening now… the can of worms is already opened now, hope it can be closed quickly & successfully soon…
1) as a Buddhist, i say just forgive and forget.
2) as for any punishment if necessary, Law is still Law, just hope something fair would happened. (3 teenagers’ combined age & life experiences probably < senior pastor Rony, so why not send them do community service together)
pledge ourselves as one united people,
regardless of race, language or religion,
honestly, we pride ourselves with the Harmony we enjoyed these few decades, do not wish to see it disappear because of someone's mistake (apologies regardless of sincere or not, no problem….).
Dear Fauziah,
Thank you for your comment. I’m also an attendee of the church and am truly saddened by the amount of hatred that is in many comments. Indeed, what everyone says is right, Pastor Tan should not have demeaned other religions in trying to evangelise his views. In order to give an unbiased account on my stand, I have felt offended on behalf of people who may not be Christians, listening in the congregation.
Despite this, know that no man is perfect nor is any church perfect (since a Church is an institution with man). Furthermore, the comments made by Pastor Tan made were not made in malice or hatred. They were, as some have commented, made out of a zealousness for the beliefs he holds. Although I can’t say that the video sermons circulated are the right way of presenting the Christianity because there are better ways of doing it, not EVERY sermon demeans other religions!
This is just one video clip amidst the many other sermons that are not circulated which preach love, peace, faith and tolerance. Please don’t demonize somebody based on just a 10-15 minute video. Pastor Rony is a very well-respected, wise, God loving man who has a real heart for people. Just because you do not see it in the video, doesn’t make it all the less true.
Peace.