PM Lee now says degrees “not as important” after former govt scholars join opposition
Written by Our Correspondent
Obviously taken aback at two former government scholars joining the opposition, Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong is now singing a different tune from the PAP’s usual elitist stance.
The Straits Times reported last week of a former SAF scholar Tony Tan joining the Reform Party led by Cambridge-educated Kenneth Jeyaretnam. His wife, a former PSC scholar, will consider joining the party in the next few weeks.
In response to a question at the Singapore Perspectives Forum, on recent reports about ex-government scholars joining the opposition, PM Lee said:
“For the opposition it’s a change – one scholar or two you think “wow” this is a luminous transformation. Well it is a significant development we will look, but finally let’s look at the person. Not what degrees he has, but what he is he able to do for Singapore.”
The PAP loves to boast about the academic qualifications of its candidates during every election which the opposition is having difficulties attracting though the gap appears to be narrowing in recent years.
Judging from his tone, PM Lee doesn’t seem to think much of the two former government scholars in the Reform Party:
“We hope that anybody who enters politics is somebody of not just ability but integrity and commitment. These are young people who have got good records academically and been in the civil service. We wish them well but we hope Singaporeans will judge individuals like that as rigorously as they would judge individuals who join the PAP side. In other words, it’s not just what degree you have but what sort of person are you and what can you do. That is a matter you can scrutinise before they come in and the PAP scrutinise very hard before they can come in. But it has to be scrutinised by the voters after they have come in and make a wise choice whom to commit.”
Prime Minister Lee must have forgotten what his father said during the 1984 election rally at Potong Pasir. Then the Prime Minister, Lee revealed the “O” level results of PAP candidate Mah Bow Tan and SDP candidate Chiam See Tong and sneered at the latter for scoring “Cs” while Mah is a straight “A” student.
Chiam eventually won the seat by garnering 60 per cent of the valid votes while Mah had to enter Parliament via a GRC in the next election.
Regardless of how hard the PAP “scrutinize” their candidates, it is ultimately up to the voters to access their performance and judging from the PM Lee’s “accomplishments” since the last election, it will very hard to convince Singaporeans to give him and his team another “overwhelming” mandate again.
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randomnessinmind on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 9:55 am
If degrees not as important then PAP has failed quite badly in it’s candidates. They’ve a bunch of monkeys in there, a few dummy elephants, and some nice people. But mostly monkeys and dummies nowadays.
Comon…PAP is filled with degrees and scholars. PM Lee how about you say something else I don’t know, and try not to make yourself look like an idiot in front of Singaporeans please.
And I’m more interested in you inventing ways to solve poverty problems in Singapore, not how to raise your own pay and downplay oppositions.
BTW, what our dear PM just said, put in layman terms.
“You guys study so hard doesn’t mean you’re good people. Look at the PAP, full of good people! Hardworking, working for the people as much as they can!”
I wanna hear a different tune, something smarter please, not constant spouting from Mr. Obvious.
Blac on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 9:59 am
BS… again…
Cheeze Off on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 10:04 am
What integrity and commitment is the PM talking about? Earning millions without delivering anything worthwhile? Try reducing his pay and that of his ministers by half and then talk about integrity and commitment.
What about the billions of public money lost by GIC and Temasek? Where is the accountability?
PAP ministers are proven failures and are not worth their salt.
Singapore citizens should give the opposition the opportunity to prove their worth.
Dean@hotmail.com on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 10:09 am
This is actually a good new because we can have plenty of opposition with normal degrees/diplomas to joint the oppositions . we are ready for the GRC wards witin any min no of candidates . Great news .
Frankly , we can see that the panic button already pressed . Just look at their faces will tell .
Kettle Calling the Pot Black. on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 10:09 am
Am I seeing a uniquley singaporean-style hypocrisy?
hoosiers on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 10:14 am
sounds like a looney tune to me…
Sad 2b Singaporean on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 10:15 am
haha, this joke makes my day.
G on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 10:16 am
Whatever the Opposition fields, the PAP will have something negative to say.
Field non-scholars, they say not scholar, no educational qualifications. Field scholars, they say scholar or not not important, most important is to have a heart to serve Singapore.
Pssshhh.
Richie on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 10:22 am
degrees are not important to run this country..
the PAP have ministers who have integrity and honesty
and it is charisma and experience..
and high regard by foreign countries
that the PAP enjoys in order to run singapore.
Does the opposition have these qualities ??
quet@hotmail.com on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 10:26 am
LHL is right. MIW with good degrees earning millions also lost BILLIONS ( Temasek and GIC ) .
kikoman on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 10:26 am
To the two scholars who joins any opposition parties , Sir and Madam- you have my best sincere wishes and prayers to you both and and May God bless and guide you both with success .May you also proves to them that you are worth the cloths you are wearing and also excel in ALL your undertakings. like they said in chinese “Cha Yu” (full supports cheers)
propap on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 10:30 am
Yeah,I agree with PM LEE this time around…
He knows better as he has firsthand info that most of his FTs “bought” their degrees…some have degrees in Professional Gambling,Sex and Drugs Marketing?
So,never mind that degree as long as you can give “sextifaction”(satisfaction) to customers!
Some of the elite scholars actually also never did make use of their qualification from IVY LEAGUE’S,they merely do “sucking” and got their way to the top.
More Good Years and Swiss Standard and World Cup and Golden Era on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 10:34 am
Wow, to be given scholarship, directorship could mean they have done careful assessments and that should be an excellent testimony of their talent.
should thank LHL for so having highly regarded the current RP Opposition Members.
He said there are many scholars. Imagine, all ex-scholars join Opposition or form a new one. who can say not enough talent? who can say these unable to form shadow cabinet when these are the ones who have been given such high accolates or regards?
Conclusion: singapore has more than 1 A Team. I suspect many teams.
Sinner on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 10:37 am
I dun see anything wrong with government scholars joining oppositions. They are ex-civil servants and not PAP members. We should find out those who are ex-PAP members that joined oppositions. That would be more interesting…
Daniel Lim on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 10:50 am
Seems like the son is now telling his father that his past deeds are full of craps….straight As means nothing, it is about integrity and commitment lah.
Realist on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 10:53 am
“Not what degrees he has, but what he is he able to do for Singapore”
Exactly, lets all look at what the MPs have done for us. We should also look at what our Ministers have done and than decide whether they deserve our votes or not. That being said, we have already put these people in and have seen what they can or cannot do. They have had time to fulfill their promises but the opposition have never been given a chance to prove and those who have been given a chance like Chiam and Low have proven themselves beyond doubt. Perhaps as the PM said we should see what they can do by voting for them.
Hayek on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 10:57 am
Unbelievably condescending double standard talk! Please spare Singaporeans from these demeaning speech that insult our intelligence!
Alan Wong on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 10:58 am
You mean it’s true ?
That previously our MM stoop so low as to attack Chiam’s academic results just for the purpose of hoping to win a seat at the election ?
Good grief!
Ravenclaw on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 11:00 am
For once, he is making sense. Politics was never primarily about qualifications, it was always more about what the candidate could do for the country. The PAP govt, with all its degrees, has already loss its moral credibility.
krankie on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 11:08 am
“but finally let’s look at the person. Not what degrees he has, but what he is he able to do for Singapore.”
the opposition all this while wasn’t given a chance to prove what he can do for Singapore..that a very fair judgement of what he can do for Singapore is it? the MIW were given all the chance to make our lives better but look at what is happening now.. don’t talk about what happen 40yrs ago.. what’s important is now & future of my kids.. there will be more funny news like this (don’t get excited abt GE etc etc) in the coming weeks and mths.. what a joke.
WuZuoYong 无作用 on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 11:14 am
hello lee hsien loong,
1) Many native singaporeans are struggling in our life……too many of your bloody policy and gst is working against normal singaporeans.
2) You mention integrity, i wonder how much you possess ?
3) Your father lee kuan yew, is he worst that kind of money S$3millions per year as a forecaster, are you telling us that he is better than President Obama of United States and President Hu of China ?
4) Do you and your colleagues deserve millions dollars salary as well ? Your millions salary made majority singaporeans poor.
5) To increase native singaporean population, how sincere are you ?
6) The GIC investment, lost billions, someone need to answer, please please please don’t tell is long term investment.
7) new citizens, they love singapore so much, why didn’t you enlist them for two and half years national service ? *** Please do not tell us that their children will go NS because the question is about the adults. Their children and ours definitely have to go for NS and you will be a idiot if you tell us this as a reply.
9) You colleague goh chok tong promised this year we achieved swiss standard, i have good eye sight yet still not able to find any standard.
I found no swiss standard except prominent discarded rubbish from china and india.
Do you called these swiss standard ?
Very sorry i think this is shit standard !!! or maybe that is mrs peanut husband goh chok tong standard.
Please look into the mirror with your eyes opened, touch your heart if you have one and ask these questions ?
Darth Vader on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 11:24 am
degrees are not important to run this country..
Go tell that that to MM Lee: he’s the one who always says that we must pay top talent top dollar.
the PAP have ministers who have integrity and honesty and it is charisma and experience..
Since when?! PM Lee doesn’t even know that PRC study mamas have set up dozens of unlicensed massage parlors cum whorehouses in Teck Ghee Constituency, and he’s the f**king MP there. And what about Khaw Boon Wan? He keeps saying that he wants to export local retirees overseas, but keeps denying it whenever he’s confronted about it.
I guess this proves that MiW supporters like richie know shit about what’s happening around him.
crap on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 11:28 am
“integrity and commitment”???!!!
Stop the bullshit. It’s ONLY about money for MIW. They need multi-million-dollar salary to keep them on the straight path…..and even then, they still strayed.
MTK on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 11:39 am
Yeah, it’s so sickening to see so many of these third world
people around who speak rotten english and also stink the
clean roads of S’pore and ogle at all the women becos
back home they will be kicked in their ass if they stare
at sumone sister/wife/girlfrens and will try to molest them at
the nearest opportunity (foreign workers,and the lot) And prostitures from all the world to service these stinking people. Importing pollution and diseases with these people, NO, you don’t need a degree to do that!
A cow dung degree will do!
fpc on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 11:47 am
as if Lee Bee Wah has a lot to offer?
LHL is joking again.
He copies the productivity idea from RP and pretend as if it is an original idea.
What a joke!
How the economic strategy committee in the early 2000s didn’t mention that?
We have a lot of copy cats in govt copying people’s idea without acknowledgment.
sickening.
anonymous on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 11:50 am
Here is a comment on Mr Tan Kin Lian’s blog telling a story of the Govt-sponsored Scholarship System in a country you know where it is:
“Dear Mr Tan
You have missed the entire point of the “scholar system”.
In a purely fictional country called “The mother of all Hubs”, this is how the scholarship system is used.
The most obvious purpose is to identify bright, young people.
What happens next is not so obvious.
These bright young people represent a clear and present danger to the existing system. So they must be systematically “managed” and “neutralized” over their entire lifetime.
Encourage and incentivize them with scholarships to focus on academic studies, especially science and engineering. These subjects tend to create more obedient students because they are fact based. No critical thinking required.
Actively “fix” subjects like political science, history and philosophy which require students to think critically. Stigmatize the Arts by dumping the weaker students here.
Upon graduation, these scholars are bonded for about 8 years to the present system.
Next you pay these scholars above-market salaries and promote them quickly regardless of their abilities or talents. Encourage them to get married and have many kids.
These scholars would be in their early 30’s by the time they finish serving out their bond period. Operating at positions above their capabilities with salaries unmatched elsewhere. Busy with wife and kids. Deeply in debt due to their housing and car loans. Maintaining an expensive lifestyle with overseas vacations and membership at country clubs. These scholars are too busy to think.
By the time these scholars are in their forties, about 50%-80% will be facing careers that will be stagnating. Around this time, they start to wake up and think.
But it’s too late.
Despised and distrusted by majority of ordinary citizens, these former high-fliers have nowhere else to go. They’ve got huge housing & car loans to repay, and an expensive lifestyle to maintain. Their children will also want to study at top universities in USA, and this will also cost a small fortune.
And the scholar cannot escape. No real skills to survive in the “real world” because early on, they have been promoted too quickly to learn how to get things done at the grassroots level. Due to constant job rotation early on in their career, they now find that they have no grassroots base or expertise when they are in their forties.
So no choice. Shut up and conform. Become the same deadwood employees they once despised when they were in their high-flying twenties and thirties.
In their fifties, these former scholars will be gently phased out to head top positions in harmless Non-government organizations (NGOs) to keep them busy and out of trouble. But even these NGOs are special. They are really BONGOs (Business-organized NGOs) and GONGOs (Government-organized NGOs).
The above is purely a work of fiction and will never happen in the real world.”
fpc on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 11:52 am
As if Pigs have a monopoly on integrity and honesty?
We all know how false that is.
fpc on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 11:54 am
I would say the pigs have a monopoly on leeches in S’pore given the amount of pay they give out to their people and the work they expect their people to produce.
fpc on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 11:55 am
imagine we have a parliament with 49% of opposition, do you think Lhl will get his hefty pay hike approved?
Of course, he has to thumb down the opposition latest recruits.
fpc on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 11:59 am
//WuZuoYong 无作用
if you compare what Deng Xiao Pin got while he was alive with LKY ’s current pay you will be shocked.
Deng Xiao Pin only got USD300 a month.
NUS-GRAD on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 12:07 pm
what talent? Just look at the LTA scholars. The only ideas they have to control congestion is to (1) reduce COE quota (2) install more ERP gantries, increase ERP charges. Friend… any kid on the street can tell you the same thing. I don’t want to pay thousands to these so-called scholars for such lame solutions.
btan on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 12:12 pm
Of course degree has never been important for PAP, just how well the person licks the boots and carry balls.
Tua Kee Humister on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 12:19 pm
I wonder how does Scholars,past and present, feel about his words? should have told us this earlier right? then people know more about scholars mah.
Concerned Citizen on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 12:19 pm
This caricature of a man, if you can call him a man is making contradictory remarks again. If the PAP has all the elites of Singapore society can offer then please tell me why for the last decade since the Asian economic crisis our economy staggered and fall so many times? Why with all the scholars in their employment can lose so many billions during the world financial crisis? Why our China projects never really deliverd the results that they projected? Why no one from this regime is accountable for the mistakes and bad policies? Why the cabinet are paying themselves obscene salaries way beyond the norm of other political leaders of the world? Why they cannot, will and dare not to answer these questions many Singaporeans are asking? Why we cannot fulfill our national pledge of building a democratic society based on justice and equality? Why are so many Singaporeans still voting them?
Fellow country men and women, the obvious is staring in our face that there is something very wrong with this country. There are some who have the means and abilities to migrate but the great majority cannot choose that route and have to stay. Since we staying why not make Singapore the Singapore that is depicted in our national pledge? Our national pledge is not lofty ideal. It is not just hollow words but perspectives to our aspiration as a nation. If anyone out there has any bit of hope for Singapore and see what I see, feel what I feel and seek what I seek for Singapore, our home. I implore you, vote in more oppositions to create a real parliament with checks and balances before it is too late.
cy on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 12:22 pm
let’s see whether you will walk the talk when PAP introduce their new candidates.
fpc on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 12:31 pm
the best part if he meant what he said in this speech is gdp is not everything.
productivity is.
slapping the face of turncoat bala.
no lam pah gee on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 12:39 pm
His gangs of bozo ministers and mps are just puppets without using their goondu brain.All got no balls like frighten chickens!!!
who dare not challenge the greedy evil master….the old fart ask all of them to eat shits and all of them will obey and say good idea and shiok!!!haha
Harry TomDick on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 12:43 pm
Degree or no degree is not the only important consideration.
When dealing with human beings, a good heart is more important than a string of degrees.
jiangbao on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 12:53 pm
Yup, degrees not important now? Wow that is news, after telling us for years about streaming, school rankings. Now he said its not as important.
While it is good to see scholars joining opposition, I hope the govt will not drag out all their stories to the ppl
fpc on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 12:58 pm
In the committee (leadership) of PAP, there is one economist i.e. Tharman and this guy NEVER question the productivity gap of the Singaporean economy as compared to other economies (developed ones).
Either he doesn’t know or he couldn’t change the mainstream thinking of PAP. which LHL is not changing.
So, what is the point of having all the talent in PAP?
IT could not motivate them to produce the best value to Singapore unlike the online media, which offer a venue for intelligent people to criticize the govt policies with insights and reasons.
All the talk about giving the best value to S’poreans through the PAP is demonstrated to be wrong by LHL’s speech.
fpc on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 1:03 pm
I meant LHL is now changing to.
fpc on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 1:14 pm
The current political structure is oppressing Singaporeans and am not harnessing their creativity.
As demonstrated by my argument above.
Creativity which S’poreans need to create new original content and knowledge that S’poreans need to compete in the future. If it is just to make a chair, at the current prices, there is no way S’poreans can compete with the PRCs/indians.
So, by oppressing us, PAP is taking away our livelihood in the future.
And all they are concerned was the perpetuity of their reign and therefore their pay.
lalaland on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 1:18 pm
I knew it that the GE will NOT be held this year 2010. The ground sentiment not good at the moment.
All these platitudes that the PAP are saying do mean something significant if you break down the psychology of how PAP thinks. Take for eg like Ah Loong saying integrity of politicians more important not A star grades, Mr Hen’s come on to the opposition to challenge senile old man at Tanjong Pagar or the challenge issued by Mr Cow at Sembawang GRC.
If you break it down, their statements are just cowardly reactions to a big bully neighbourhood kid whose prowess has been challenged by his victims who have ganged up to fight him. So, to fill the empty void, the big bully neighbourhood kid lacking any concrete plans becos he is caught by surprise and unaware of the ambush planned by his victims springs around & utter empty words devoid of action.
That is what the PAP has descended to in the last few days beginning with Mr Hen’s remarks about Tanjong Pagar similar to a neighbourhood bully being cornered finally by all his victims.
LeeKeeSee on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 1:21 pm
1) Most singaporeans are suffering because of your policies implemented.
2) Another example : Singapore has no talent for sports, they imported from china. These imported won medals in sports, do these medals belong to our singapore or should we said all belongs to China or China citizens help singapore to represent and won the medals ????
You bunch of idiots are teaching my child to cheat and short change others !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Do you know that i need to spend alot of time & effort to explain my child ??????????????????? If you need to cheat or do anything funny…..do not do it publicly because everyone is watching you all.
Walau……talk about integrity……………….I wonder how much integrity our ministers and mp have ?
samllfly on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 1:24 pm
Aiyoh! I told you uncountable and relentless time already, this bunch of million-dollar idiotic nerds only know how to “unstoppable” self-praise their own candidates but sneer/smear on others’ credentials when you do not belong to their cliques.
Mind you, look at HIS STUPID WIFE whom can devour off state coffer hundred of billions of dollars through defective investments world-wide which fall into his synergies that a First Class Honor Degree in Electrical and Electronics from the equally idiotic University of NUTS do not really matter but is what you can do for the Singapore!
Yeah! What she can do for the Singapore is to lose Hundred of Billions of Dollars in a very short period of a few months, wow, and “she is really the CAN”!!! Heehaheeha……
Viper on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 1:25 pm
Is all about winning the race !
Mee Siam Mai Hum on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 1:30 pm
At least this 2 Scholars is willing to serve the Country with thier Heart and Soul compare to those PAP Ministers who serve thier own Pocket with Millions of Dollar.
''LAST-CLASS'' Singaporean on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 1:39 pm
Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhh,
I think his remark is from the bad comments about MPs who refuses to help citizens posted on Temasek Review and other online forums.
NOW HE REALISES, although highly educated and rich BUT CANT RELATE TO and NO COMPASSION FOR ORDINARY CITIZENS, especially the poor, elderly and handicap …………….
He needs look at the quality of government civil srvants also, esp the senior ones; as their decisions affect the ordinary citizens.
Examples of MPs not helping citizens
Town Council took unemployed man to court for 432bucks S&C arrears
http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/09/30/town-council-took-unemployed-man-to-court-for-sc-arrears/
http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/11/30/eunos-residents-protest-against-hdbs-lift-upgrading-programme/
http://happyangelclub.wordpress.com/
Are the SW CDC/Boon Lay MP & grassroots perform their duties for their needy citizens?
On September 08, 2009 , I wrote an email (subject:
A handicap case for your attention) to Boon Lay MP Ms Ho Gek Choo.
No any response from her.
http://theonlinecitizen.com/2010/01/people-of-the-tents/comment-page-1/#comment-126512
http://theonlinecitizen.com/2009/09/handicapped-resident-applies-for-aid-with-mp-but-faces-difficulties/
http://www.todayonline.com/Voices/EDC091126-0000059/Direct-lift-access-not-always-possible%E2%80%93HDB
http://app.reach.gov.sg/reach/YourSay/YourDiscussionCorner/tabid/117/ptid/414/page/2147483647/threadid/2848/forumtype/posts/Default.aspx
- page 12 onwards
Cheeze Off on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 1:40 pm
Commitment? Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Sorry, my toes just can’t stop laughing.
Just reduce their million dollar salaries to normal salaries and you will see mass resignations of PAP leaders.
First to resign: MM, SM and PM.
Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha. Can somebody help to stop my toes from laughing? Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha.
Khor Kian Sng on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 1:51 pm
this year is year of tiger in chinese calendar. not ospicious. if its held next year, it could mean:
1. more uncertain events could pop up. eg. usa economy head for worse.
2. mad cow or chicken return.
3. more may step forward.
4. more may not be able to witness the election due to mortality.
5. more things to report by online community.
''LAST-CLASS'' Singaporean on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 1:53 pm
Ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhh,
I think his remark is from the bad comments about MPs who refuses to help citizens posted on Temasek Review and other online forums.
NOW HE REALISES, although highly educated and rich BUT CANT RELATE TO and NO COMPASSION FOR ORDINARY CITIZENS, especially the poor, elderlys and handicaps …………….
Think has 3 cases of unemployed handicap person mentioned in Temasek Review recently, tt not helped by their MP [tip of the ice berg]
[the jln besar one tt was brought to court over 432 bucks, the boon lay case and the Clementi Ave 5 LUP case]
He also needs look at the quality of government civil servants also, esp the senior ones; as their decisions and actions affect the ordinary citizens.
native singaporeans on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 1:57 pm
Dear Mr Lee Hsien Loong,
Being not so educated but having integrity and honesty, i need to tell you that in the eyes of most singaporeans you are nothing without your father around.
Till date, many really cannot look upon you as our prime minister but i hope the day will come when you decided to stand on your own feet and compete in single constituency during election.
Please show to all native singaporeans you can win the election on your own effort and i shall walk forward to congratulate you wholeheartedly with full respect you as my Prime Minister.
Sincerely I am waiting for my respectable Prime Minister to come.
Regards,
Native Singaporeans
Singapore Vs Singaporeans on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 2:00 pm
I’d like the PAP to tell us what they are planning to do to help local Singaporeans.
No need to talk about helping Singapore. I think PAP has already got a good reputation for that.
So – PAP – what are you going to do to put local Singaporeans first??????????????????
wuZuoyong 无作用 on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 2:11 pm
Dear fpc : thanks for the information because i frog in well
Walau way !!!!!!!
Singapore has overpaid lee kuan yew !!!
Will the new government collect back all millions dollars salary when pap lose the election ???
no way on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 2:13 pm
Don’t be surprised, this simply means there’s a possibility a foreign talent joining politics in Singapore.
Jobless and Poor on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 2:16 pm
Spore is governed by large numbers of scholars just like olden days China. Infact, most of the current ministers are scholars in one way or another. Hence to say that scholars are not important must be the greatest joke of the day.
Many of the current the MPs from the ruling party walked into parliament without having to fight for their place in parliament. This is only possible because of the mega GRCs. In the coming GE, the ruling party should field all their new candidates in single wards in a one-to-one contest with the oppositions. New candidates should not hide under the cloak of GRCs and walk into parliament without a sweat. This will ensure that these are MPs elected by the voters in the true spirit of democratic process.
MioMio on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 2:16 pm
someone just had his foot shot
Darth Vader on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 2:20 pm
Hey everyone here, have you ever wondered what the initials of the various government agencies REALLY mean?
LTA: Logik Tidak Ada (Malay for got no logic).
NEA: Not Effective at Anything.
PUB: Place for Useless Bureaucrats.
PSC: Place of Senile Crackpots.
mike on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 2:21 pm
guys, in fact he is RIGHT!
the scholars he all along targeted are only sucking his balls in order to earn millions dollars.
so he realised now! but too late. damages have been done too much esp to all singaporean.
sickening pariah on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 2:27 pm
Looking at his flicking face make me vomit blood!!! how on earth
that we have a pm DRACULA! SUCK BLOOD($$$$$$) & TALK COCK!
Be Honest on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 2:35 pm
Hey Come’on PM is telling the truth, Degree or not dont matter because despite all the degrees we still see boo boos from our leaders MPs, Ministers alike.
What really and truly matters is the real performance and on this I as a citizen and stakeholder grade Papaya a D- for their 2009 performance.
Yessir@hotmail.com on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 2:52 pm
Its a bit strange of having scholars to joint the opposition . It might just be a plan by MIW to put these people in opposition wards ( in case they loose , opposition still their man what ) .
Opposition parties should put thoese hungry for success candidates ( those degree holders who are jobless , holding shit jobs or driving taxis & above 45 of age ) for election.
Putting a scholars is not a good choice . see for yourself and those working around you ( especially those below 35 years )
Make sense ???
bestdog@hotmail.com on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 3:00 pm
Can we list down all the MP’s qualifications ? Any MP holding PSLE or GCE levels ?? He is talking cock . Look at his face you know panic already . LOL
Where is the Swiss Standard of living GCT promised? on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 3:33 pm
Gahmen boasted so much about its quality of people, about the need to pay through our nose to them and that its worth it blah blah blah….
But where is the Swiss standard of living GCT promised?
You all forgotten har, but I havent.
dunbeanidiot on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 3:55 pm
Same lah.
Growth is not so important now lah.
Please focus on increasing productivity!!!
In the first place, they are the bunch of ppl who brought in that group of ppl that brings down our productivity.
What cheek!
Degrees not important, of course must say that mah, then now FTs can also start to join the ranks of MPs.
wuZuoyong 无作用 on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 4:30 pm
To :dunbeanidiot
I think you are almost right.
You really able to anticipate their movement.
Thank you for the enlightenment
Those bloody idiotssssssss
can you teach me idiots + idiots = ???
Pl enlighten me again.
Moe Gan Thai on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 5:00 pm
since this lousy pap pm said that degrees are not important, so coming election, i will vote for a O lev oppositions who are honest and not so greedy for money like the pap ministers.I really fed up of these pap people,anything oppositions do, no good,no integrity, anything pap do, honest,clean no corruptions … nia mah!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
thinknot on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 5:15 pm
Losing a handful of scholars to the opposition
parties he now hisses jealousy through his teeth!
In a sense I agree with him. Even if he uses his
degree to clean his ass he will still be as
useless, hopeless, incompetent and jia-liao-bee
as he has ever been.
sturmtruppen on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 5:31 pm
Folks intelligence can be measure in different methodologies…even if a person score straight “As” or not…it just show the person intellectual capacity, inclinations or capability, even if the person does not score straight “As” does not mean he/she is not intelligent, just intelligent in a different way or at that point in time still developing his/her path…most people dun think the same way, same goes for all of our brains..
Purpose of Uni education or an “Elite” education is to provide real independent original thinkers…from the below hyper link…it seems Singapore is getting 99% of the so called “intelligent but conformist not original and not truely wise independent thinkers”…just conditioned follow the rule book type of folks…too bad…intelligent as shown on bits and pieces of paper results i will say yes, but based on real world result i can’t help but say not truely intelligence, no original thinking and not true passionate visionaries…what a waste…of being all that you can be…: (
http://www.theamericanscholar.org/the-disadvantages-of-an-elite-education/
Sad.
Boomz on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 5:33 pm
Admin:
“The Straits Times reported last week of a former SAF scholar Tony Tan joining the Reform Party led by Cambridge-educated Kenneth Jeyaretnam. His wife, a former PSC scholar, will consider joining the party in the next few weeks.”
Dear Admin;
The said Tony Tan and his wife are not just Cambridge ed, but BOTH also FIRST CLASS HONOURS.
His wife is not only “a former PSC scholar” but she also served in the Administrative Service.
PAP Member on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 5:37 pm
Aiya, my master was saying all these for his own people to hear lah…all the Eric Hows, Sear Wrong Hole, Fong Ai Koon etc. Seeing these people in YPAP shock him ok, can’t sack them, can’t discipline them, so have to go one big roung to teach them lor! Liddat also don’t know meh? My master very good one lah…
toratoratora on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 6:30 pm
Ok….LHL claimed that degree is not important.
Can I as a taxis driver, gather a few of my hawker kaki together with my Malay barber run for GE in a GRC? We really care for our country. For that kind of MP pay, we promised to work hard and serve the people with all our hearts, compassion and care. We believed that we can do better job than the MIW.
Will the MIW in turn scorn at us for being a low quality opposition?
yes no on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 6:37 pm
I want to see PAP field a school dropout,hokkien speaking candidate with a heart for singaporeans, for this general elections…
養蛇被蛇咬 on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 7:30 pm
I remember last time somebody said our graduate certificate is a piece of 大便紙. Now what he said is right.
So whether you are a valuable person is in the eyes of beholder!!!!
清道夫 on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 7:33 pm
May be next time he will say….”一個人的人格並不重要！” ???????
Since certificate is not important now (because they can’t find real talent now, all talents had gont to opposition), can I stand for presidential election which is coming soon??????
Digest on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 7:42 pm
What PM meant is that his scholars have failed miserably especially his GRC comrades in his constituency. This goes for the others so called the best. Now, probably , he may go for chee cheong fun/barber candidates!
Newsreader on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 8:00 pm
They say GDP not important any more because they know GDP will not increase as much if they have to stop playing their dirty tricks like mass import foreign workers. perhaps now they change tune so that they can change their measurement KPI – that way they change it such that they can continue to guarantee their increments. Wondering…
Great Asia on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 8:10 pm
民不服吾能，而服吾公。
Lee Kuan Yew know nothing about Chinese language and culture; therefore, he built a feudal meritocracy system and selected the leaders based on their academic achievements.
PAP Member on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 8:23 pm
Aiyo, sullenly I get veri worried. My master said these isit because he wants to field candidates like Eric How lian, Sear Wrong Hole and Fong Aikoon (yawn…) etc.? All these are not scholars and not capable people wor, but they have heart leh, heart to insult peasants lor….
Wah seh, veri scare liddat.
Darth Vader on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 8:44 pm
You know guys, going by the government’s standards, Professor Albert Einstein will NEVER be considered talent. He did badly in school, not because he didn’t understand the lessons, but because he was so intelligent he found them boring. In Singapore, he would end up in EM3 or worse. In stark contrast, bums like MND Mah Bow Tan who doesn’t even know that greater population = greater demand for housing aregded as talents.
That’s Singaporean meritocrazy, er, I mean meritocracy for you.
PS: HDB: Hopelessly Dumb Buttheads.
kwailan on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 9:59 pm
Now only our PM realised that our bunch of PAPies with high qualifcations are all failures. Instead of solving problems thay create more problems. Pls leave us alone cos everytime we asked for help we ended up having more headaches. We have lost confidence in them. Time for a change
Cheeze Off on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 10:35 pm
Election is coming. So they all must start talking to show they are working. After election they go to sleep again.
This has been going on for the last 44 years. No wonder, this country is in such a mess.
Laurent Xavier on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 11:04 pm
To Mr LHL
I am hawker selling mee siam without hum, sometimes i put hum when my customers insists, rule lumber one: u dun piss off people who pay you a living.
Anyway,I don’t have Leegree. i only have pram-ary 3 chinese pass certLeeficate, and it was taught in Angmoh, i heard the top form lew moe syllabus will also teach chinese in english.
But i tell you har, i have a good heart and can do many things for Sing-ah-pour. Also i think i have integLEEty, i LEElly do. yesLERlay, one lady ask for mee siam, with no gravy, and i automatic charge her 5 lollar instead of the usual 5.fifly. i think this is customer service and also inteGLEEty. anyway for the last few years i also charge 5.50, price never go up wat, only thing is if you insist want hum, the hum will be so small you meed microscope to see.also the meehoon is lesser than less, most lesser mortal wont feel the diffelence.
I will send in my cv to your office soon. ask me for tea leh. i guarantee you i no politic ambition, i no need be prime minister, i just be minister with lowportfolio, bery cheep, just 600k peanuts butter jam. bestest AH kooon jam.
yours faithtifulLEE
hawker who has integrety and wash hands every minute and use cheap lamsoon soup for cleaning the bowls, sometimes i recycle the oil and lastic containler for many times but no choice, LEEST 7% mah….must earn a little bit leh mah.
haha on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 11:26 pm
What value did LHL bring to this small island. I can only remember the policy of 5 days work week and reduce the NS term…… and that is very long ago…. I also feel paiseh to bring up……….
Investigator on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 11:42 pm
Dear Laurent
I regret to say that you have been unsuccessful for the application.
Reasons are as follows:
In 1987, you have used your company’s petty cash for the delivery of mee siam to your wife.
You used to sell ice cream
You actually wore slippers during election campaigns!!
And finally, we have decided to hire a FT, more cost-effective than you and though not so productive. Well, I have hired a million-dollar scholar to tackle the productivity challenge so there is no issue.
From Mr XXX
Disclaimer: Any views or opinions presented in this submission are solely those of Mr XXX and do not necessarily represent those of the Party.
Singaporean on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 11:48 pm
PM, SM ,MM all toking cock nowadays , if u read the news . All toking different stuffs and contradicting each other saying. Example, SM tok productivity now but in the first place is PM want more foreign. Who is our real PM??? All tok like PM. Let’s have o Level candidate, as long as the candidate fight for Singaporeans , we muz vote for him/ her, this is wat he is trying to say now ??? Our leaders are veri screw up nwadays, bigger population , hard to manage rite.
royal connection on Wed, 27th Jan 2010 12:31 am
PM Lee is absolutely right that having degrees is not as important. You need much more, like his famiLee members have.
Ultimately it is about having the right God father, father-in-law or in his case the right father.
And of course one’s God father or father must have longevity.
Alo on Wed, 27th Jan 2010 12:31 am
The present bunch of leaders lack creditability and am very very upset and sad, why Singapore can become like that. Observe the way they talk and see how the media slant it. It is so hypocritical. No chance at all in other countries. Only Singaporeans and HDB owners blinded by assets appreciation of HDB. Time to change.
The Awakening on Wed, 27th Jan 2010 1:28 am
Richie
Like the hound dog you are lapping it out at feet of your masters, did you say degrees are not important ? Did you actually meant to say you agree with your PAP paymaster (how’s you monthly cheque coming on?) that degrees are not important, therefore we shouldnt be building more universities then? Now go and ask PM why we are in the process of planning a fifth university to be built very shortly here ?
First your masters changed University of Singapore into National University of Singapore. Then they closed down Nanyang University, saying Singapore did not need 2 universities. Then they re-opened Nanyang University. Suddenly we need 2 universities (slapping their face so fast and eating their words ?) And here presto, we’ve also got SIM University, and then lo and behold Singapore Management University, and now planning for a technology university. And right in the midst of this joint collaboration project, suddenly we hear that degrees are not important ! Then the PM should close down all the universities and put the budget for the proposed new 5th university to helping the poor and downtrodden in Singapore since degrees are not important.
First it was no F1. Then it is F1 is fine in Singapore. First it was Stop-at-Two Family Planning order to Singaporeans. Then it was produce more babies directive. First it was long hair (for men) is culturally degenerate so it was banned (Kitaro was not allowed to enter Changi Airport for a love performance). Then it is Singapore should promote creativity and the arts and long hair, men wearing earings or lipstick, etc. is ok in the interests of art. First it was Singapore should have a mass rapid transit transport system. Then it was not feasible but expansion of present bus system should be sufficient (introduction of bus lanes), and then it was MRT should have been built. Wasted time meant cost escalated to twice the original projected amount. First it was National Stadium should be pulled down and replaced with a new ultra modern one. Then it was maybe the stadium should stay for the time being.
Richie, aren’t you sick of the tricks and incompetence of your PAP masters by now ?
The Awakening on Wed, 27th Jan 2010 1:32 am
Richie
And mother of it all – first it was no casino for Singapore. Then it is casino is alright for us because it brings in tourist dollars. Then it is Singapore will not be getting one casino but two !
Richie, had enough ? Or you want more of such incompetence of the PAP leadership being washed in public ?
The Awakening on Wed, 27th Jan 2010 1:49 am
Laurent/Investigator
Mee Siam my hum ? Normally I go char kway teow stall when I place my order I say : char kway teow $2, give me more hum, more kway teow, more lard cheong, and more towgay.
The Awakening on Wed, 27th Jan 2010 2:23 am
Admin
I sure hit spot on some very pertinent points on the incompetence of the PAP leadership and you have just proven to me that TR is a PAP proxy site ! Thanks for the black out whenever a very pertinent point is raise which threatens the PAP in every of its department.
I have long told most of my friends that TR is really a wayang site – with the puppet strings held by the PAP and using the site to study the issues Singaporeans have that are anti-PAP in nature and also to use it to flush out those who pose a real threat to their credibility. That’s why TR now and then got “glitches” which they explain as changing servers. That’s rubbish you know it and I know it. So admin, how many IDs have the ISD obtained from your TR site by now ?
You can fool most of the readers here into believing that TR is truly an independent site, but you can’t fool me.
James Tan on Wed, 27th Jan 2010 7:00 am
LHL is just another hypocrite! He knows full well that the pap MPs and ministars have NO ABILITY, NO INTEGRITY & NO COMMITMENT towards Singaporeans – all plain to see in the pap fiascos and wayangs over the last couple of years. But it certainly takes great courage of him to tell such a big lie in our face!
Digest on Wed, 27th Jan 2010 8:20 am
Is the remarks made by the PM gracious? No wonder the kindness movement is not getting anywhere in their yearly campaigns!
It is most despicable for a leader to say those words and a case of “sour grapes”.
No wonder they say that genes are often passed down!
Anonymous on Wed, 27th Jan 2010 8:37 am
Every morning when I wake up, I thank all the gods of mercy for being so merciful by giving us the Internet.
We will forever be grateful and always offer our unending and heartfelt thanks.
At least the gods have proved their presence this human world.
chucky on Wed, 27th Jan 2010 8:49 am
guys… eventually they’ll form just one GRC! basically the whole island of singapore and place their biggest PAP guns there, then opposition will never see daylight haha…
Laurent Xavier on Wed, 27th Jan 2010 9:12 am
Awakening,
Char kway teow $2 eat 2 mouthful finish liow. in the end must eat 2x$2 or 3x$2 then feel full. so real cost is $4-6. anyway wan ton mee also the same. $3 i cant feel the wan ton in my mouth, look for it in the soup also must wear spectacles.
Since i am a farmer anyway (vs Elites), i am going to plant rice and rear pigs. getting so expensive to eat out at hawker centres, not to mention food courts.
some people will retort,”if eating out is expensive, cook at home”, i say a hungry man who cannot cook is an angry man.
SayCheese on Wed, 27th Jan 2010 9:24 am
@Singapore Vs Singaporeans on Tue, 26th Jan 2010 2:00 pm,
“So – PAP – what are you going to do to put local Singaporeans first??????????????????”
Chee Humped By Me, Siam is going to top up the population with imports for Singapore’s benefit.
Clement Tan on Wed, 27th Jan 2010 9:46 am
PAP is a practical flip-flopper. While foreigners always praise Singapore for its political stability, they always fail to mention the PAP government’s opaque decision-making and inconsistent public policy positions.
Concerned Citizen on Wed, 27th Jan 2010 10:07 am
“I have long told most of my friends that TR is really a wayang site – with the puppet strings held by the PAP and using the site to study the issues Singaporeans have that are anti-PAP in nature and also to use it to flush out those who pose a real threat to their credibility. That’s why TR now and then got “glitches” which they explain as changing servers. That’s rubbish you know it and I know it. So admin, how many IDs have the ISD obtained from your TR site by now ?” – The Awakening
Do you not think that TR is doing a bit too much to damage the false image of PAP than being a sting operation to flush out anti-PAP sentiments and the identity of individuals who are critical of the regime? In fact, what TR has been doing got alot of people thinking about the status quo and my personal experience is that there are many converts to our cause after they have read the blogs here on TR and these people are introducing their friends and relatives to this site. Please do not give PAP too much credit.
Terry on Wed, 27th Jan 2010 11:06 am
Read from news that many oppositions are going to contest Tampines…so happy that the useless MBT finally going to be unseated~! Maybe MBT can contest for Lim Chu Kang GRC after this? haha
The Awakening on Wed, 27th Jan 2010 11:56 am
Concerned Citizen
I take your comments in right perspective and thank you for them.
However, i just want to let you know the reasons behind those statements I made about TR. There were several articles and critique I wrote disclosing some “enlightening” points about the PAP and their leadership, especially many policies in the past pointing to abject incompetency on the part of this government, but all these were blocked by admin of TR. Unfortunately you were not privy to those information so you couldn’t understand the context in which my “accusation” of TR being a proxy of the PAP was made. If you had known the contents of my unpublished comments, you would have second thoughts about this web site.
Be careful what you write and where your postings are made from for your own “security”. This is my advice to you. As for me, I am using a proxy server….
toratoratora on Wed, 27th Jan 2010 1:01 pm
Dear Laurent,
We are sorry to hear about your rejection to join the ruling party. However, we are glad to inform you that we are still short of one candidate to fill in our seven-man GRC team to be contested for AMK. Since majority of my team mates are hawkers, myself a taxis driver plus one Malay barber – it will be a perfect match for you to join us. Our manifesto is to improve the lives of all hawkers, taxis drivers and barbers in Singapore. Don’t worry. Sure win one. Because we all shared the same sentinment – we care for our country. For many had said: Given the choice btw voting for MIW and monkeys. They will vote for monkeys.
degree on Wed, 27th Jan 2010 9:03 pm
To work in a department store, you may at least need an O Level.
To work as an fresh entry level executive, a diploma.
To be a teacher teaching in a secondary school, you need a bachelor’s degree.
To be a CEO, you have to have a masters degree.
To join politics (according to PM), degrees are not important. All you need is to serve SG.
Looks like aunties, makciks, ah peks, 21 year old poly grads all can become the PM.
HAHA!!
Concerned Citizen on Wed, 27th Jan 2010 10:26 pm
“Concerned Citizen
I take your comments in right perspective and thank you for them.
However, i just want to let you know the reasons behind those statements I made about TR. There were several articles and critique I wrote disclosing some “enlightening” points about the PAP and their leadership, especially many policies in the past pointing to abject incompetency on the part of this government, but all these were blocked by admin of TR. Unfortunately you were not privy to those information so you couldn’t understand the context in which my “accusation” of TR being a proxy of the PAP was made. If you had known the contents of my unpublished comments, you would have second thoughts about this web site.
Be careful what you write and where your postings are made from for your own “security”. This is my advice to you. As for me, I am using a proxy server….”
Dear The Awakening,
Thank you for your reminder and concern. I appreciate it. Maybe we can look at another perspective. It could be due to the severity of your postings that TR’s administrators are fearful of lawsuits that is why they censored it?
TR moderators, please enlighten us on this matter and silence from you will be interpreted as guilt and this site is a sting operation. I await your reply.
admin on Wed, 27th Jan 2010 10:57 pm
Hi Concerned citizen,
We have five moderators on our site and we leave it entirely to them to moderate the comments as they wish.
While we are pretty liberal about the comments, we have to be careful that they do not contain any defamatory comments about PAP leaders which will get us into trouble.
As you know, there are people who are trying to bring us down by spreading all kind of baseless and malicious rumors about us. Already, our hosts receive a complaint from somebody within the establishment to shut down our site.
This “sting operation” nonsense is nothing new. In fact, some jokers even claim that we are funded by ISD on some forums not too long ago. The onus is on them to substantiate their claims. We have nothing to hide.
The irony is: these gossip-mongers still visit our site daily to fish for info after accusing us of being a “sting operation”. Don’t you find it strange?
We leave it to our readers to judge our work for themselves. If we are going to spend all the time in the world rebuking these nonsenses, then we won’t have time for anything else.
Concerned Citizen on Wed, 27th Jan 2010 11:49 pm
Dear Admin,
Thank you for your reply. I personally do not believe that TR is a sting operation as the awareness and damage done to the regime is already quite significant from the way they are acting on the controlled media. But we cannot be too careful you know. Once again, thanks for the clarification and keep up the good fight and we all will post on TR one day without anonymity!
Michael on Thu, 28th Jan 2010 2:15 am
In the coming GE, there will be only one constituency: Singapore GRC with 84 members. LKY will be the Anchor & to be reelected as Singapore’s 4th PM!
Linda L on Thu, 28th Jan 2010 8:18 am
Our ministers are all untested. Their ideas are from the bureaucrats. They just merely make it public and claim credit for them. Lots of those policies are short-term and engender problems for the long term – eg. bilingual policy.
Why don’t the government change the parliamentary debates to allow a 1-hour question period where questions need not be submitted in advance and ministers are required to answer them impromptu? Let’s see how good these ministers are?
Concerned Citizen on Thu, 28th Jan 2010 10:06 am
The current parliament is a carefully choreographed affair. If not how can they get all the statistics so fast? Impromtu Q&A will really get those ministars in trouble and to see them fumbling in the eyes of the public is one thing PM will want to avoid. The only concrete thing to do is to vote in more oppositions and let LKY sees what he had build crumples around him. That is what I call Karma!
Laurent Xavier on Thu, 28th Jan 2010 11:22 am
toratoratora,
thanks for your offer. i heard that GRC in AMK will be at least 25 man GRC in the coming polls. but dun worry, i will call my gang, the wet market stalls CEOs specialising in meat, fish, chicken, vegetable and also tau gwa,taugeh and taupok.
we will all submit our cv to you. we can value add also, we know how to forecast also leh. we forecast prices of vegetable and meat will go up before chinese new year!also we can value add by suggesting to give free plastic bags to the voters and also one chicken drumstick to the lucky winner who vote for us.
please look for me in the market, i wear apron with big belly and always have a cigarette in my mouth
The Awakening on Thu, 28th Jan 2010 1:07 pm
Admin
I thank you for responding to “concerned citizen”’s query regarding your independence. Whilst the reasons and answers you provided were sufficient to assuage the subject matter, they do not explain why, very frequently, important articles of public interests have been appearing on your web pages on the same day they also appear in the state “controlled” Straits Times. It gives the appearance that the journalists and editors are one and the same, or at least drawn from the same source.
It is rather difficult to fathom this aspect. For one thing, it would mean sharing of resources arrangement at the very least. Can you hazard a reply on this ?
And by the way, I am not a rumour monger, and I hope by your earlier reply with the run-of-the-mill comment about rumour mongers and those trying to bring your site down or into disrepute, you are not referring to me as being one of them. Readers can see for themselves the points that I have raised from time to time. They are factual, and sometimes laced with a little supposition, but they are always calibrated for maximum effect and minimum damage. So far, I do not think that anything I have written are of a disparaging manner as to put TR into jeopardy of a lawsuit.
The frequency of your server “glitches” with their regular downtime is another area of grave concern to discerning contributors.
However, all said and done, I do agree with your comment that the moderators of TR do not have the time to reply to all accusations or innuendoes, regardless of the number of times they appear, and objectionable material (as opined by them) are discarded without right of reply, as the prerogative lies with the publisher.
The Awakening on Thu, 28th Jan 2010 1:22 pm
Concerned citizen
On the point of Parliamentary proceedings which you raised earlier, perhaps you may like to know that sometime back a non-constituency MP had raised a query on whether it was true that Ministers who have turned 55 years of age were getting their monthly pay as well as collecting their pension at the same time.
LHL replied in Parliament that it was true, but that the practice was in line with that being practised in the civil service. This issue, though raised in Parliament at that time, was totally blacked out in the state media. The Straits Times and the other newspapers did not report this. Neither did TCS. so the majority of Singaporeans are not aware of this either. I bet you didn’t know that our elderly ministers are drawing both they pay and pension monthly at the same time.
Frankly, I do not think this is the practice in the civil service. I have friends who just retired upon reaching 62, and only collected their pension AFTER they have retired. For the period in question, from 55 to 62 they were only drawing their monthly salary as usual, and they was no pension element inputed in their monthly drawings. So I am stiffled by the explanation given by LHL. I just can’t make out what he was saying in Parliament.
Maybe, Mr Low Thia Khiang or Mr Chiam See Tong could throw more light on this since they are both privy to the debate and discussions tabled during parliamentary sessions.
Moneyman on Thu, 28th Jan 2010 3:17 pm
WHAT BS man…. Please.. They pay themselves millions of dollars each year saying its important to get capable people and top notch scholars to lead singapore.. but they sing a whole different song when two scholars join opp party?
If thats the case.. we should be paying millions in accordance to character and job done.. and not on qualifications like what they claim!
Concerned Citizen on Thu, 28th Jan 2010 3:42 pm
No I am not aware that ministers after 55 can draw monthly pay and pension. If it is true as you heard it from the horse’s mouth (pun intended), it is natural for Pravda (Singapore edition) to have a blackout as the implications can cause a storm of anger among the already struggling populace of Singapore. I must say that I am feeling very disgusted now. How much does one really need? Greed for money and power has robbed them of their sense of humanity.
Gmale on Fri, 29th Jan 2010 12:18 am
With the exception of parliamentarians, no civil servant collects a pension at age 55 if he does not retire. His pension starts the day he retires, not before. For civil servants there is no such thing as being paid a salary and a pension at the same time.
On the other hand, parliamentarians start collecting their pensions after two terms ie 8 years, and NOT when they reach 55 years of age. This is IN ADDITION to their salaries/allowances.
So what LHL said was untrue. There is a huge difference between pension for civil servants and parliamentarians.
The Awakening on Fri, 29th Jan 2010 12:53 am
So this pension plus pay thing for ministers is just like the “I didn’t know that I was purchasing the Nassim Jade condo at a special discount” thing all over again eh.
Another honest mistake by the PAP leadership ?
The Awakening on Fri, 29th Jan 2010 1:12 am
Gmale
There is a difference between MPs and ministers. MPs’ pension are administered along the same line as those governing all workers in Singapore, i.e. administered through the CPF. And their eligibility to drawdown against this “pension” fund applies in the same manner as Singaporeans.
However, it is totally a different scenerio where a minister is concerned. Ministers get life long pension if they have served a minimum term of 8 years and have reached age of 55, i,e, they start drawing on the pension from age 55 years onward (the cap on this pension is 2/3 of his last drawn salary at age 55). The issue was raised by non-constituency MP Steve Chia during a parliamentary debate in June 2004. LHL replied that the practice was true and in operation and that there were currently 8 ministers (at that time) aged 55 and above. It was a shocker being revealed in parliament that day, but the Straits Times and other state controlled media kept mum, and the TCS news channels were more interested in showing Li Nanxing and Joe Tay on air than public money being bitten away by Gecko greed.
The Awakening on Fri, 29th Jan 2010 1:23 am
As an aside, now you probably know why the dirt on Steve Chia was brought up in court (those nude pictures, etc) – to blemish his character and embarrass him so that he would not run for re-election again, and would never ever have the chance to embarrass the PAP ministers again on having to disclose their Gecko greed in parliament. There are so many MPs in parliament but it took a non-constituency MP (who had the second highest electoral votes in his constituency) to raise this issue of grave concern to the public. And it wasn’t even reported in the papers. In the end, his quest came to nought, and Steve Chia has since faded into obscurity.
All the other MPs are sleeping in Parliament House. If you see traces of them speaking or moving about during parliamentary sessions, they are just the shades of shadow from the play of lights in the newly installed chandeliers hanging on the ceiling.
fairplay on Fri, 29th Jan 2010 8:05 am
Dear Awakening,
You wrote: “However, i just want to let you know the reasons behind those statements I made about TR. There were several articles and critique I wrote disclosing some “enlightening” points about the PAP and their leadership, especially many policies in the past pointing to abject incompetency on the part of this government, but all these were blocked by admin of TR. Unfortunately you were not privy to those information so you couldn’t understand the context in which my “accusation” of TR being a proxy of the PAP was made. If you had known the contents of my unpublished comments, you would have second thoughts about this web site”
I think many readers would like to read more about what you have to say. Why don’t you create a blog and hyperlink it to any articles you write here to direct readers to your blog? I am anxiouly waiting to read your articles.
Thank you.
For those who are interested to know that Minisers do receive pension and salary on reaching 55 please read this blog:
http://totallyconfused.blogspot.com/2006_05_21_archive.html
Mr Steve Chia Kiah Hong: Clarification from the Minister. Does any serving Minister who turns 55 actually receive both salary and pension at the same time? If yes, should he be serving?
Mr Lee Hsien Loong: I believe the answer is yes. That is the rule for the civil service, and the Ministers follow the civil service rules.
So it is confirmed that Ministers are on pension scheme. Interestingly too, that our PM Lee Hsien Loong confirms that serving Ministers who turns 55 actually receive both salary and pension at the same time.
The Awakening on Fri, 29th Jan 2010 8:39 am
Addendum – I had erroneously commented that “…Steve Chia was brought up in court…” I believe the matter was actually investigated by the police, but was widely publicised in the press for the consumption of all Singaporeans. After the intended result of embarrassing him had been achieved, the police then called off the investigations by saying that no crime had been committed. I think everyone knows that when an investigation is on-going there should have been no comments and a news black out on details, but yet in this particular case it seemed that details were trickling out from the source of investigations to the press as if they were free knowledge readily assessible to anyone who wants it. In my opinion, this leakage was prejudicial to his case if it ever went to court.
Citizen on Sat, 30th Jan 2010 11:53 am
@ fairplay,
I tho when a serving officer reaches 55,if he collects his pension,his pay will be reduce to a certain percentage point.It makes mind blogging sense if this officer collects both pension and full pay at the same time!! I may be wrong.If I’m right than those dead woods who are over 55 years old are having hell-of-a time counting zerooooos in their CPF statements!!
TeeKee on Sun, 31st Jan 2010 2:11 am
LHL performance as PM clearly shows that scholar does not guarantee result !!!!
hmm on Sun, 31st Jan 2010 12:47 pm
PAP leaders are always twisting their words to suit their own political agenda.
Singaporeans would be “daft” to believe anything that comes out of their mouths.
The Awakening on Mon, 1st Feb 2010 10:29 pm
Citizen
For civil servants there are 2 schemes – those on pension schemes (under the earlier years intake) and those on the CPF scheme. Those on pension schemes have a lower rate of CPF contribution, but they stand to receive monthly pension payments when they reached retirement (at 55 years initially, and then raised to 62 years). However, there is a proviso for them to opt for early retirement (at 55 years). The monthly pension will only be payable upon their retirement, i.e. they are no longer gainfully employed. And their pension sum is capped at 1/3 of their last drawn pay.
Now we compare them to ministers.
They are paid their monthly pension once they have reached 55 years of age, even though they are still serving as minister and drawing their usual salary. Also their monthly pension sum is capped at 2/3 of the monthly portion of their salary at the time they reached 55 years. Do you see the great difference ?
The Awakening on Mon, 1st Feb 2010 10:42 pm
I salute Steve Chia who has been blasted into obscurity.
Although as a person he may have his moments of indiscretion, as an “non-constituency” politician he has been first class, picking on the right issues at stake and raising very pertinent matters in parliament for the benefit of uninformed Singaporeans.
It is unfortunate that although he had raised a very important issue in parliament in June 2004 regarding ministers collecting their pay as well as collecting their pension at the same time, non of the 2 opposition MPs had seen it fit to question the integrity of the matter (although it had been passed by an earlier parliamentary session many years earlier).
The issue was raised, quickly answered by LHL and duly blacked out by the media, and Steve Chia had to fade into political oblivion due to the blemish created by his personal indiscretion. I believed he had fallen into an entrapment created by the power that be (those nude pictures affair). Had he continued his political journey, I believe he would have made a credible MP in our parliament.
Eirene Wee on Thu, 4th Feb 2010 2:03 am
Many years ago, Thomas Kuhn wrote a monumental book explaining how people tended to believe in certain sets of “rules” about things (e.g. everything revolves around the Earth”) and followed these “rules” as the way to “success” until the minority uncovered enough evidence to show that something about these “rules” was mistaken (aka. not quite true). Kuhn said then a “paradigm shift” would happen – and it would be traumatic for quite a while. He also noticed that those in the minority who persevered to presented new discoveries (e.g. Copernicus, Galileo) experienced a very hard time. What is just as important to notice is that when traumatic shifts take place to a new era, many good babies get thrown out of the bath water … many new beliefs are badly mistaken beliefs too (e.g. science and technology can solve anything, one only needs reason and intelligence not religion because religion = irrationality, etc..)
There’s no doubt that a lot of heat and growing discomfort is happening among Singaporeans. Those in leadership would be seriously mistaken if this were being ignored. Yet despite the heat, let’s give credit where credit is due. For example, LKY, Goh Keng Swee, et al were visionary and courageous and to broke the paradigms of their day … their crew were not all scholars even if the small core comprised some unusual geniuses; they were the minority but they represented the heart and need of the masses; HDB, CPF, JTC and EDB were pioneering schemes in their day that did make a huge difference that enabled Singapore to leap-frog a majority of nations world wide … and today, Singapore remains respected for what was done.
But there have been many mistakes based on some fundamentals that were helpful then, and totally crippling today. The scholar system, GRC formulation, our education curriculum and assessment approach are among these crippling features. Crippling soft-side features include the wide use of “self-congratulations” and “blackening others” not only in public speeches and the media but also as a pervasive cultural feature among GL-institutions … these coupled with a fear and resistant against genuinely intelligent self-examination – really blocks progress and an increasingly one-sided ethical system (e.g. was it a “good” thing to turn POSB tellers/cashiers into sales-persons/pseudo-financial
advisors as a means to increase productivity and because “leading” international institutions “synergised” their product range this way?). By putting on glasses that increasingly see only what you want to see and not what is really there to be seen, one sets oneself up badly … Rome was once great, the British Empire once “ruled” the world.
We do have some good people in government today. I’m sorry to read the remarks directed at LHL and/or Tharman. Yet, the practice of setting compensation levels of ministers on the level of international corporate leaders is a mistaken one. The collapse of the global financial and economic system has proven that – the fault lay in how the leaders were compensated and in how they were incentivised. Stock markets have basically rewarded for short-term results of which much was effort was devoted to “window-dressing” to encourage a rise in their stock prices. NOTHING genuine or creative or strategically important could come out naturally from such a system … and the genuinely outstanding things came out from those who did not play to the rules of this game … the Steve Jobs (Apple/Pixar), Google and others like these.
Some others have commented that intelligence comes in many forms … with or without paper qualifications and status – not measured by the way our Education system in Singapore measures intelligence, not discovered by the way our children are taught in Singapore. not encouraged by the limited exposure + content focus approach that is prescribed in a very time-intensive, cram intensive lifestyle – that doesn’t serious discuss/question ethical issues (but prescribes what is to be considered “ethical” with the expectation of being complied with no questions allowed). The scholar system is but the tip of the iceberg waiting for another Titanic full of complacent anxious passengers. Having many separate compartments in it’s hull didn’t save the Titanic from sinking.
I do applaud the small and courageous Reform Party and wish them well … whether their platform is yet what Singapore needs or not quite yet, whether their own lives are blemish free (because which of us can truly claim that). It is a good thing that they are doing this, and not without significant personal risks. But I also hope that others with the foresight to distinguish between global imperatives vs. global fads (e.g. what does it mean to be “free”, what does it mean to be “equal”, is a “rights” mentality really a good thing, etc…) will join them or indeed be invited to join the PAP => for the sake of Singaporeans and the future of our country and for our generations to come.