炎黄子孙 龙的传人 on Sun, 29th Nov 2009 9:05 am 

Totally agree. Just look at NKF and Renci. We really do not know what’s inside the closet with our 133rd ranked MSM.

It’s just a matter of time when Singaporeans know the truth, hope it wouldn’t take too long!

Exposer on Sun, 29th Nov 2009 10:45 am 

You might want to reference
“The ranking are based on the Corruption Perceptions Index (CPI) which measures the perceived level of public-sector corruption in 180 countries and territories around the world. The CPI is a “survey of surveys”, based on 13 different expert and business surveys.”

http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/11/17/singapore-the-3rd-least-corrupt-nation-in-the-world/

When you start using Rule of Lee and Kangaroo Laws threatening and jailing any whistle-blowers, naturally there would not be any corruption because there is no one dare to say that there is corruption. With no one to say publicly that there is corruption, the perception of no-corruption will be positive.

Robert Mugabe of Singapore on Sun, 29th Nov 2009 10:47 am 

Mr John Symons has given a true account of the state of affairs in Singapore.

When MIW Ministers pay themselves obscene salaries that make no sense at all, how can they claim that Singapore is corruption free ??

Can the PAP Government justify paying even their most Junior Ministers more than 2 times the salary of Barrack Obama and the Chief Executive of Hong Kong ??

Where’s the justification based on their job performance, and in comparison to what other non-corrupt 1st world Governments pay their Ministers ??

The MIW can call it what they want, but this a definitely a case of legalised corruption.

The example is just one of many PAP abuses (corruption) in Singapore.

—–

Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong – S$3.8 million (USD 2.7 mil).

Senior Ministers of State and Ministers of State – each paid between S$1.8 million to S$1.5 million (USD 1.2 mil – USD 1.08 mil).

** At age 55, Singapore Ministers collect both a salary and their full pension.

** In addition to their inflated salaries, the Singapore elite gets extra pay as appointed company directors!

Other non-corrupt 1st world Governments :

United States
President Barak Obama: US$400,000, with US$50,000 expenses
Vice President Joe Biden: US$202,900
Cabinet Secretaries: US$157,000 – $186,600
Secretary of State (Hillary Clinton) – $186,600

United Kingdom
Prime Minister Gordon Brown: $US279,000

Australia
Prime Minister Kevin Ruud: $US229,000

Hong Kong
Chief Executive Donald Tsang: $US516,000

Japan
Prime Minister Hatoyama: $US243,000

Canada
Prime Minister: $US246,000

Germany
Chancellor Angela Merkel: $US303,000

France
President Nicolas Sarkozy: $US318,000

Based on what they are paid, it looks like Singapore’s most Junior Ministers have a tougher and more difficult job than even the Presidents / Prime Ministers of the above mentioned countries. Dosen’t it ??

O’wise, how can the PAP Government justify paying their Ministers more than 2 times the salary of Ministers in other equally non-corrupt, developed nations.

Singapore Government Ministers don’t need ‘under-the-counter’ payment when they are given ‘over-the-counter’ money…

That’s why the PAP can boast a corruption-free Government.. and be ranked nbr 3 by Transparency International.

http://www.yeocheowtong.com/Salaries.html

sousuke on Sun, 29th Nov 2009 10:56 am 

The truth is, the transparency ranking is only an indicator of the PERCEPTION of corruption. Whether or not there is any truth behind this perception, well.. I don’t know, neither do you, but we all know what we’re thinking.

citizenofSG on Sun, 29th Nov 2009 11:33 am 

John Symons does have a point and though generally I do think Singaporeans are not very corrupted.
However unless press freedom is genuinely perceived by the public at large otherwise such a high ranking is not very meaningful.
The best way to ensure that press freedom can survive is to be extremely tolerant to all types of news reporting. A cap of not more than $5,000 being the maximum amount that a news reporting can be sued is a real stater.
Our leader over zealousness to protect their reputation and teach others a lesson is not sustainable and will continue to attract criticism for the country. The truth where the people of Singapore are genuinely less corrupt is clouded by some of our leaders who seemed to be practicing a form of self legalizing corruption.
Some big banks and multi national corporation in America who openly lauded their executives and give extremely high bonuses and pay should be considered as corrupted because it conforms to the spirit of corruption though the act does not encompass inducement. One of the meaning of corruption found in the dictionary is “a departure from the original or from what is pure or correct”.
If we take into account of those who in authority overpaying themselves, then I doubt Singapore can be considered as the third least corrupted country.

Seriously on Sun, 29th Nov 2009 11:38 am 

A lie always live perpetually in fear of the truth.

A crooked man fear even his own bent shadow, forget the haunting ghost.

Free and Selective vs Free and Bias on Sun, 29th Nov 2009 11:55 am 

“strong, independent and free press that is not afraid to undertake investigative journalism to expose wrongdoers so that they can be prosecuted and tried in fair and unbiased courts.”

Problem is even journalists have to eat, and they do have to report to their pay masters. Look at USA! Look at Taiwan!

GeorgeBush and ChenShuiBian are 2 of the most corrupt ‘leaders’ of our time. Yet they managed to get away with their crimes during their terms of office.

1 in the dock. The others may get away scotch free.

Fae on Sun, 29th Nov 2009 1:43 pm 

Not only the corruption ranking, the whole country is a joke!

low class citizen on Sun, 29th Nov 2009 1:52 pm 

I don’t believe in any statistics figures. They are just merely made-up for political purposes.

“官官相护”也

Whatare the criteria for judging? That is more important!

benwani humania on Sun, 29th Nov 2009 2:17 pm 

LKY touted that he could’ve earned far more money if he wasn’t a minister. Let’s examine some basic facts regarding the interlink between his family wealth and his social position.

Had his MIW party failed to gain two-third incumbency for so long in Singapore, would he be able to get himself appointed to be the Chairman of a $300 billion sovereign fund such as Temasek Holding if he had remained just an ordinary private owner-operator of his law firm with his wife?

Would his name-sake law firm be so influencial and powerful that no one in Singapore dared or could audit its account for so many years while his MIW party remains in power?

The fact is political power is far more lucrative for the MIW especially LKY than lack of it. In fact, lost of political power for him and his family members may be fate worse than death, isn’t it?

Iron Bowl on Sun, 29th Nov 2009 2:28 pm 

Free thoughts and freedom of speech is virtually not present in Singapore. Many people fear to speak freely of the things they see as “not right” and do whistle blowing on their superiors especially in the government.

With many closed door tenders and unnecessary construction of parks and “upgrading” works, I seriously doubt that there is no corruption.

Get Real on Sun, 29th Nov 2009 3:10 pm 

Free and Selective vs Free and Bias on Sun, 29th Nov 2009 11:55 am

The late President Richard Milhouse Nixon resigned in disgrace after media revealation of the Watergate break-in ( he was personally innocent of this law violation and his only committal wrong was covering it up in Congressional testimony later) – he could have gone into jail, had Gerald Ford NOT fall on his own sword to save Nixon from incarceration.

Gerald Ford had no chance of winning at all in the next election.

This is free and unbiased media, the same way as Daniel Ellsberg exposure of Pentagon Papers on My Lai massacre of civilians ( not the only one I am sure) helped the awakening of the American conscience accelerating the end of the Vietnam war as students’ sometimes violent protests erupted across the globe including the US.

Hubaluya on Sun, 29th Nov 2009 3:22 pm 

I very simple minded person but has question regarding this ranking process.

1. How does a ranking organization know what are the corruptions? Reported ones only? Do they know if there are ZERO cases that are not reported? Do they know in reality how many corruption are ever committed regardless of being found guilty or not? Is this organization inside singapore? How can it have access to all business entities in singapore so good an access that it knows EVERYTHING ? If it cannot know everything, what is the basis of ranking? PERCEPTION?

Perception is not necessarily Reality.

I will not accept this ranking without a cup of salt until my questions and doubts are answered.

btan on Sun, 29th Nov 2009 5:13 pm 

Even though there is no money corruption, the fact that ministers pay themselves multi million dollar pay while the poor suffers shows there is moral corruption in Singapore already.

Exposer on Sun, 29th Nov 2009 5:51 pm 

“The truth where the people of Singapore are genuinely less corrupt is clouded by some of our leaders who seemed to be practicing a form of self legalizing corruption.”

Our leeders don’t even have any genuine moral authority, and even use millions money to justify for moral authority, so do they even know what is corruption ? I sure they do not know, they just think it is business as usual for them. They justify any of the decision as for the sake of nation on behalf of themselves.

Case in point, Singapore Technology blacklisted by India in corruption probe To SinCity, it always the case of “If I don’t do it, others will too”, and so you see it they using leegalised corruption.

If you can lose more than hundred of billions of state-money in investment loss with zero accountability and responsibility by yourself and family members, and yet give yourself millions and prepare to jail, sue or demote anyone who dare to raise the issue , if this not corruption, tell me what is it ?

Our corruption is the worst in the world because what other country can a inept family lost hundred of billions of state-money and still a live of no regret ? It is beyond corruption.

Moe Gan Thai on Sun, 29th Nov 2009 7:15 pm 

There is corruption everywhere only in S’pore you can’t catch the big fish and moreover CPib is under PM dept. so it is difficult to carry out the task

Political SalesMan on Sun, 29th Nov 2009 7:30 pm 

Politician must pay like politician. They always use private sector to compare, this show that they have motive to corrupt.Investment loss by Town Council & other Goverment Insitution are not transparancy to accountability.

Tony on Sun, 29th Nov 2009 7:50 pm 

There is no nation that I know of that has “freedom of the press.” Elitism and disparity guarantee that if the media isn’t outright gagged, it is covertly monopolized by the elite. Similarly, I can’t think of a nation that is free of corruption.

People like John need to offer suggestions on how to foster greater egalitarianism, freedom, and justice, as well as give examples of nations that do a better job … anyone can and does point fingers.

Either way we can all agree that education is the foundation upon which freedom and democracy are built, and in that regard, Singapore most certainly encourages education.

With education comes empowerment, the more people can do on their own, and the more power that is decentralized from the government. Technology is also born from a good education system, and technology is the great equalizer.

I doubt that people who really want to know the “truth” have a hard time getting online and finding it. I’m in Singapore right now reading this very “critical” article.

Just some things to think about.

"I’m in Singapore right now reading this very “critical” article. Just some things to think about."???... on Sun, 29th Nov 2009 8:46 pm 

The only problem with “Tony on Sun, 29th Nov 2009 7:50 pm” comments I chose to use as headline is… as he claimed he has the “FREEDOM TO”…

1. Read…

2. Think…

And so he is simply satisfied to be able to know the “truth”…

But is that enough Tony??? Sure it is better than not. yet how do YOU use such VALUABLE information ONline WHEN YOU just say thing like that and nothing more???… And NOW…

Where AND What IS YOUR EMPOERMENT???… Please enlighten us educated and learned one!!!

Ah Siao on Sun, 29th Nov 2009 9:19 pm 

Tony, you must be joking.

“With education comes empowerment, the more people can do on their own, and the more power that is decentralized from the government”

If you are in the Singapore’s “World Best” educational system, you are told that PAP is the best thing that come to this world after Jesus Christ! hahaha……nauseate………

Vivian the gal on Sun, 29th Nov 2009 9:41 pm 

If ALL Corruption can be known, and no way to avoid detection,
then , Ladies and Gentlemen,
there would not be so many daring enough to commit corruption because many who corrupt have some IQ, they would know that if all cases of corruption Will be found out, those with enough IQ would not even try.

So, I wonder how much does this ranking organization really know about who corrupted before?

So , is it a Joke? Singaporeans, 1st world and highly education and qualified on PAPER, tell me.

Get Real on Sun, 29th Nov 2009 9:58 pm 

@ Tony on Sun, 29th Nov 2009 7:50 pm

“..Either way we can all agree that education is the foundation upon which freedom and democracy are built,…”

Confucius era was a learned society, did that brough democracy to China since centuries ago?

Why don’t you tell all of us “freedom and democracy is built from hypocrisy tomstone of autocracy”?

This one is easier to believe than the fallacy of your sweeping motherhood generalisation of falsehood I quote above.

“Technology is a great equalizer”.

Tony, you must be born in the Stone Age of fiction or still living in the Stone Age in your day dream.

Why don’t you tell Singapore education Ministry to scrap all computerised on-site face to face teaching in our educational education establishments and require each students to buy their own PC at home and learn via internet-based web learning. And then find out after that how many kids from poor families is deprived of means and access to this web-based education.

I am sure you won’t come to this marvellously stupid conclusion that Technology is a great divide not a great equaliser.

Technology I suspect, most sadly, has turned your top “coconut” filled with only unthinking stones picked up from some drainage system in your neighbourhood.

Terence Goh on Sun, 29th Nov 2009 10:35 pm 

Singapore is ranked high because we have minimal “low level” corruption i.e. cops don’t stop you randomly and ask for $50.

I can’t say the same for high level corruption because only insiders know what is going on. The press will only report good news whereas CPIB will only go after the small fishes.

fpc on Sun, 29th Nov 2009 11:12 pm 

thank you TR for raising these issues.

great article.

The (in)corruption index is used to justify the high pay of our leaders.

Finally, someone has the sense to link the 2 issues together.

Really another great article by TR.

janetnt on Mon, 30th Nov 2009 12:25 am 

Why do a Thai expatriate living in Bangkok care so much about Singapore’s ranking?

Exposer on Mon, 30th Nov 2009 3:24 am 

Terence Goh ,
that is the point of lee-galised corruption and it only works in master and slave relationship. That is all masters in the echelon engaged in leegalised corruption, whereas anything below is just slave to do the bidding obediently without asking question.

“I can’t say the same for high level corruption because only insiders know what is going on. ”

Doesn’t need insiders to know. From the way they run the show, we 101% know that there is leegalised corruption happening at the echelon. Moreover, nobody is responsible for the leegalised corruption. Point finger at kangaroo law and law-maker point finger at kangaroo law.

fpc on Mon, 30th Nov 2009 3:53 am 

//janetnt

For that matter, if a dog could speak English and raise the same inconsistency as the article, I won’t be freaked out and would be impressed with the insightful comment and logic.

antipap on Mon, 30th Nov 2009 5:04 am 

Singapore’s press, however, is ranked 133 on a world scale of 175 for freedom, languishing beneath such paragons of virtue as Bangladesh, the Central African Republic, Cambodia and Nicaragua.”

hahahaha !

Meaningless on Mon, 30th Nov 2009 5:14 am 

What is the difference betw corruption and paying the Ministers humongous salary? Taiwan’s Chen Sui Bian has been jailed for remitting $20m to Swiss banks. This sum can easily be earned LEGALLY by Singapore PM in less than three years if in addition to his basic salary you add up his undisclosed performance bonus, GDP bonus, etc., and also his on-the-job pension.

anonymous on Mon, 30th Nov 2009 5:24 am 

What is the difference betw corruption and paying the Ministers humongous out-of-this-world salaries? Taiwan’s Chen Shui Bian was jailed for accumulating US$20m in Swiss banks after 8 years as PM. Singapore PM can easily earned this sum in four years LEGALLY if in addition to his basic salary you add up his undisclosed performance bonus, GDP bonus, on-the-job pensions, etc., etc.

FG on Mon, 30th Nov 2009 8:13 am 

I do not agree with the article above, I think whether your goverment gets paid USD 10M or 1M does not make a difference. what does make a difference is if the goverment is producing results… and I think when Singapore is compared to other 1st world nations is doing far more for its citizens with far less resources…remember Singapore is just an small island with no natural resources and yet so sucessful ….I can tell you of how many other far richer countries are far poorer (meaning not only economically)…including countries from the 1st world……. nothing is perfect and yes the freedom of press would be nice to have….but my guess is that Singapore as country needs to remain focus in the present and future rather than in other matters….Democracy is about everyone having the opportunity to have a future, opportunities…and Singapore does provide that.

deoxin on Mon, 30th Nov 2009 9:26 am 

Since Mr John Symons is in Thailand, perhaps it’s better for him to talk about Thailand first. In Thailand, the freedom of speech in relation to Royalty is virtually non-existent. Mr Symons should hv visited TR and see for himself the Comments readers posted in here. Should these kind of comments r posted on Thai website, certainly TR would hv been banned, people will be jailed, and some would be killed.

..or maybe he could have talked about his ancesteral land of Britain. There’s an allegation that British gahmen covers up for rape, murder, prisoner abuses ..done by British soldier in Iraq n Afghanistan.

bornloser on Mon, 30th Nov 2009 9:46 am 

If you say they are corrupted you are sued. So how does one know if there is corruption in this country? Do you know what is happening in GIC and Temasek Holdings? Even if we lost all our money, no one will know!
One clear sign of the possibility that people can be corrupted is when they pay themselves obscene salaries after the election. They never brought it up during the election. What are they paid for? For being honest and for keeping them honest! Is there a more dishonest reason to pay yourself all these money?
Look at world class LHL at the CHOGM. The statement he made about the need for Climate Change action is infantile. CC is no option; it is imperative. To qualify the need for CC is just ridiculous when we are a smal flat country that will sink first when the polar ice melts.
Better for them to keep their mouths shut.

Nonsense on Mon, 30th Nov 2009 10:05 am 

FG on Mon, 30th Nov 2009 8:13 am

….Democracy is about everyone having the opportunity to have a future, opportunities…and Singapore does provide that

Really?

PRC is communist, they have more billionaires faster than us, right?

So what is the difference between your so-called democracy and communism when BOTH provide the same thing?

How is Taiwan different from PRC and Singapore.

If you don’t know the difference or separate the chaff from the wheat, go and harvest the grass on the roadside (instead of growing wheat in China or Australia etc) and get rich with your opportunity which democracy in Singapore provide you with that.

smallyfly on Mon, 30th Nov 2009 11:19 am 

Can the “real-god” help to explain to or simply wake-up the main-street-men/women, what is the meaning of “lee-galised corruption”? These are the group of people/citizens that has been deceived gullibly by the lee-empire and his miw troops/tool/puppets/proxies. Changes need to be evolved from this group of people who supports the miw idiotically!

smallyfly on Mon, 30th Nov 2009 11:35 am 

Oh! my dear “FG on mon, 30th nov, 2009, 8:13 am, based on your ideology, “SLAVERY”-policy can achieve far more with minimum or may-be not resources at all than any other systems/policies in this world, you can volunteer to the lee-empire to be his slave with “minimum salary”, or better still without salary!!!! Think before you talk!!! What Singapore achieved today is the assiduous and relentless hard-work of Singaporeans without “minimum-salary-cap” and not by the miw million-dollar ministers!!!

citizenofSG on Mon, 30th Nov 2009 11:45 am 

@FG – You may have preference to a rich daddy who can provide you with some monies then cheats and lies to your mummy. You consider him as a good daddy because he provides for the family. You do not care if he gags your mummy and lock her up if she try to speak up. That is your type of ideal daddy but soon he will ruin your family. We feel insulted when our daddy is like that and we think he needs to change for the betterment of the family.

Quote FG >>”Democracy is about everyone having the opportunity to have a future, opportunities…and Singapore does provide that”.<< .

What future when you are going to be slave in paying for a roof over your head all life long? If you meet a bad patch, you are unable to pay for the installment of your flat, you are dead meat.

What opportunity is there when so many foreigners are coming here to snap up whatever there is? The top jobs are taken by foreign talent, the mid job by PRC and Indian nationals, and lowly job is all taken by fit and strong mixed foreign import.

Dear FG, please stop talking nonsense about democracy. You look very happy living in your ivory tower and when it starts crumbling and that is going to be soon, be prepared to be sadly buried within it.

fair and square on Mon, 30th Nov 2009 1:59 pm 

if only the majority of smart people who run countries,companies are less obsessed by greed,i am quite certain that there would be less corruption!
GREED n CORRUPTION go hand in hand.
there is now in this highly intelligent internetted globalised world of ours a total lack of wisdom.
the “people at the top” of societies are seemingly “smarter” but NOT WISER!!!…And,that’s the true reason for the recent
financial disaster!!!

fpc on Mon, 30th Nov 2009 3:51 pm 

//FG

The govt in HK, Taiwan, South Korea, did just as much with better results but they got less pay. why?

PAP is greedy.

The people there have more freedom.

Besides, try not working in Singapore and see if you can enjoy the so called fruits.

fpc on Mon, 30th Nov 2009 7:09 pm 

//deoxin

Yeah right as we should be thankful to PAP for allowing comments to be posted on TR ?

I never heard so ban in Taiwan and HK or maybe even Mainland.

Even if Thailand is cocked up, there is no reason that Singapore is too.

Especially when your MP is making so much monies out of doing nothing.

fpc on Mon, 30th Nov 2009 7:12 pm 

//deoxin

do we need to thank PAP for giving us food on the table given that there are many countries in Africa where people die of hunger?

If people from that country post comments on news on Singaporeans committing suicide because he/she cannot feed his/her family, I would be sad for the dead man/woman.

Why should I be angry with the person posting the comment?

fpc on Mon, 30th Nov 2009 7:19 pm 

//deoxin

Why should we be thankful to PAP for allowing negative comments to be posted on TR ?

PAP cocked up first.

Only then can there are be comments to be made.

In spite of that, these pigs @ parliament receive millions in compensation.

It is like those American prisoners who committed violent crime and were sent to prisons where they have superb food and air con and other luxery.

Should we be thankful that these prisoners for committing the crime?

Alan Wong on Mon, 30th Nov 2009 7:20 pm 

What is paying our guys a couple of millions a year in salaries if they can reciprocate & make sure that my son will remain as the chosen leader as long as he wishes, especially since it is a job that nobody wanted.

Anyway, who says that paying that kind of salaries is corruption ? I’ll sue their pants off!

Michael on Mon, 30th Nov 2009 8:24 pm 

Is there a country in this world whereby I don’t have to work and enjoy fruits?

Tell me, I want to migrate to that country. Thanks.

Cobweb of deceits on Mon, 30th Nov 2009 9:05 pm 

When local and foreign press and freedom of speech are muzzled, which corrupt top dogs would broadcast to the whole world of their own free will and enthusiastic accord that ‘WE ARE CORRUPT TO THE CORE EXCEPT YOU PEOPLE DON’T KNOW HOW AND WHEN!”?

Our modus operandi here is – we don’t tell, so you better NOT ASK, and definitely NOT PUBLISH if you know the truth.

dd on Tue, 1st Dec 2009 12:33 am 

pay them the equivalent to what mayors get around the world.

we’re just a city.

fpc on Tue, 1st Dec 2009 1:05 am 

//Michael

Join the PAP.

That’s the place everyone (almost) thinks that it doesn’t need to work to be paid very well.

The only work one has to do is sucking up to LKY.

fpc on Tue, 1st Dec 2009 1:13 am 

//Michael

Also, if you believe in Christainity, you would go to heaven after death on this Earth where you don’t need to work to be happy.

fpc on Tue, 1st Dec 2009 2:12 am 

//Michael

PAP country! the MPs are not productive and only know how to scold people but they get high psy.

FG on Tue, 1st Dec 2009 7:50 am 

All those who are whining here should come to some of the freedom paradises in Europe or America and see if they can get the same level of standard (Security, education…and so on)as they get in Singapore… people take things for granted.

fair and square on Tue, 1st Dec 2009 8:38 am 

@FG
are you singaporean?
if you are,give yourself a pat on the shoulder as you shpuldn’t take your own graciousness for granted.
if you are not a local,i suggest you don’t anyhow praise
the government;instead go and thank your singaporean
neighbours for making your stay here so nice and comfortable-by courtesy of the sinagporean graciouness.

Dettol your brain please on Tue, 1st Dec 2009 8:57 am 

FG on Tue, 1st Dec 2009 7:50 am

“All those who are whining here should come to some of the freedom paradises in Europe or America and see if they can get the same level of standard (Security, education…and so on)as they get in Singapore… people take things for granted”

Your comments above betrays ignorance and your mindset still dwelling in the last century. I don’t know how education here is such a wonder

http://www.businesstimes.com.sg/sub/news/story/0,4574,361495,00.html?

Why don’t you read the above and find out which power-packed business consultancy and even our Government agrees with you.

Education in this country is a mirage of wonder. Where is the great innovation we are heading to? I don’t see Sergev Brin, Larry Page, Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, Michael Bloomberg, Jack Welch Jnr born and succeed in here.

But I do see a lot of highly educated robots here with enclosed imprisoned mind like yours who cannot see beyond your own toes of reality and the changing world.

YOU DON’T KNOW YOU HAVE ALREADY LOST RELEVANCE!

BTW, you probably so obssessed of living in “imagined fear” of security that you have not stepped up from your Singapore well to know what is it outside. There are plenty of forummers here who must, from their writing here, obviously live years if not decades outside your little frong’s well. Obviously you speak from ignorance.

Brooklynbridge on Tue, 1st Dec 2009 9:41 am 

Don’t forget the other Lee family enterprizes. Tamasek Holdings, Lee&Lee, Singtel — all pouring money in. If you could draw a chart of the Lee Empire, it would look like a spider with tentacles all over the island.

fpc on Tue, 1st Dec 2009 9:53 am 

//FG

as if security in Singapore is so good?

as if education in Singapore is so good?

We should be producing Nobel prize winners like cakes with that kind of monies invested (wasted) and the education standard like you claimed.

What a joke.

deoxin on Tue, 1st Dec 2009 11:06 am 

@fpc

i didn’t say we should be thankful for being allowed to post negative comments. i certainly didn’t suggest that singapore should go down as low as Thailand in freedom.

i am under impression that TR put some emphasis on “Thai”, or else it would write “an expat”; i believe this is so because we all know how Thailand surpress freedom of their citizen. i believe that the Thai expat has no standing in critising s’pore.

i merely pointed out that should this Thai expat make similar comments on his King ..as TR readers here make comment about s’pore leaders, he could be jailed. in fact, he doesn’t have to insults the way TR readers do, he can make general comment on monarchy n he can be on his way to jail.
In that sense, this Thai expat is talking BS.

坡仔哥哥 on Tue, 1st Dec 2009 11:48 am 

1. Singapore’s Government is NOT Corrupted and the PAP has always set and maintained a high bar – Reason for this is simple – their very existence as the ruling party will be threatened.

2. Singapore Government is NOT Transparent – simply, NO ONE has held them (so they feel no need) accountable. Government and Ruling Party (PAP) are single entity, which really makes things worse.

3. Corruption and Transparency are Mutually Exclusive. It does not mean that you have Transparency, you will NOT have Corruption (If there is a will, they will be a way). What is tougher to understand is this….being NOT Transparent DOES NOT MEAN CORRUPTION….it means that it is not SELF CONFIDENT.

4. Singapore Government LACKS SELF CONFIDENCE – in itself and its people, that is why it is not transparent.

'Mat on Tue, 1st Dec 2009 12:51 pm 

“nothing is perfect and yes the freedom of press would be nice to have….”

Hullo, what toking you? Have you just arrived from Mars?
You don’t know Sinkapoor is a democracy, izzit?

Fearful of ghosts on Tue, 1st Dec 2009 4:29 pm 

@ 坡仔哥哥 on Tue, 1st Dec 2009 11:48 am

…being NOT Transparent DOES NOT MEAN CORRUPTION….

I don’t agree on this one.

Lack of transparency invites and bed with power corruption. Corruption has many facets, shapes and forms including but not exclusively “abuse of office” and “abuse in office.” which is said to offend even our ex-Foreign Minister, Dhanabalan who was said to have left the Cabinet because of Operation Specturm or Operation Coldstore.

Dr Lim Hock Siew and his fellow detainee would see their detention as “corrupt conduct” of power and “corrupt practices of law”

Listening to his transcripts of his life experiences in detention and procedural fairness denied to him to prolong his unlawful detention, how could decent minds not agree with him??

To avoid doubt, the Government should turn over a new leaf and welcome transparency. Without transparency, who trust them with “corruption” in the scope of that word as applied in law in common law jurisdictions around the world like Australia, Britain, Hong Kong, Canada, India, USA etc.????

Right now, the citizenry are often an endlessly “asked” to trust the Government that politics in Government is “meritocracy-based”, a lot in cyberspace read would favour a nagging doubt as “REALLY???” – after past history noted of deception of this nation found in Operation Spectrum and Operation Coldstore.

The ghosts of truth is haunting public trust.

fpc on Wed, 2nd Dec 2009 6:12 am 

//deoxin

If he wants to comment about the Thai Royal Family, he will do just that.

He is commenting about Singapore govt now and his point is relevant.

Where’s the BS?

siow on Thu, 3rd Dec 2009 4:37 am 

Singapore where got no corruption. Power corruption is oso form of corruption right. Just say things that accuse u. Make u look like a fool right. If I make someone a fool what u think will happen?
He will say u mock him right?

mon on Thu, 3rd Dec 2009 11:14 am 

//坡仔哥哥 on Tue, 1st Dec 2009 11:48 am

“1. Singapore’s Government is NOT Corrupted and the PAP has always set and maintained a high bar – Reason for this is simple – their very existence as the ruling party will be threatened. ”

Since when did the 2nd and 3rd generation leader set a high bar?

Their solutions are always quick fix.

Their existence is threatened? yeah. That’s why they are making all these rules to make life easy for them.

btan on Fri, 4th Dec 2009 12:47 am 

I am not surprised one day when the press is free and fair, all the skeletons in the closet will come tumbling out and then the people will finally realised how blind they can be.

After all, didn’t Durai sue anyone who criticise him earlier and those people have no choice but to shut up? Only when a PAP-aligned person criticise him was he unable to sue them and all the skeletons came tumbling out.

deoxin on Fri, 4th Dec 2009 2:10 pm 

@fpc on Wed, 2nd Dec 2009 6:12 am

i didn’t say that the “Thai expat” cannot or will not or do not …comment on his King. i said that ..should he comments on his King, and it’s not a nice coment, he is almost guaranteed to be on his way to jail. however, he can still comment bcoz he may hv sexual fetish of being in prison, that’s certainly possible.

#1
i said he talks bullshit bcoz he currently lives in a country that jails a drunk-man for 10-years for scribbling marker on King’s portrait..!! mind u, a drunk-man!!
in s’pore, look at TR ..with its ’slanted’ title, ‘alternative’ perspective, from ‘independent’ sources ..and ‘colorful’ comments. in some article, if u put together insulting sentences n expletive towards the leaders, it could match the length of original article.

#2
i don’t know exactly where this angmoh from ..but he could well be from a country that – ..or knows the existence of countries that – jails it’s own people from questioning the accuracy of one-sided story of the existence of gas-chamber in WW2, while protecting the right of drawing a revered religious figure as an animal.
–

CSJ may welcome him or his comment with a big hug n kiss on his cheek; for he belive that foreigners in foreign land cares so much about singapore …much much more that PAP MPs. but until a freak election making CSJ the S’pore PM ..he should just wait n quite. he probably has not get any news update since 1959; we’ve been self-rule for 50 years, we chart our own path, we settle our own internal dispute. if he got problem with that ..he can always go to pathpong to BANGhisCOCK for a relieve.

n for u my friend, go on. while u don’t agree with our free-speech, u can still insults our leaders, it’s still free; we’re not thailand or europe. so go on, keep up the insults …gimme one, please, the MEANEST one. =P

fpc on Fri, 4th Dec 2009 7:49 pm 

//deoxin

Still whether he likes the thai king or not is not the question.

What he pointed out is true.

He could be in the US or the UK or in the north pole.

It won’t change the fact.

Nothing surprising: people like to say things just off the cuff because in their countries, they have free speech.

You are not in one or have never been in one long enough to know so that’s why you are surprised.

fpc on Fri, 4th Dec 2009 7:53 pm 

//deoxin

Whether CSJ likes him or not is not the question.

You can ask CSJ when you see him in person.

If I were you, I wouldn’t even bother.

What he highlighted is still true.

Einstein may have ill treated his 1st wife but it didn’t stop his ideas about Physics to be true most of the time.

Eric on Fri, 4th Dec 2009 10:08 pm 

John Symons IS obviously not THAI! any smelly ang mo throwing flames at Singapore!! why the hell do these ang mos always want to talk about our politics??? ITS SINGAPOREANS business!! stop stirring up shit for us.. we can handle our own problems.. bloody white arses can go care about your own messed up situation..

LOWER THE CRIME RATE IN NEW YORK! its a joke!
PAY BACK THE WORLD BANK u American gangsters! A big joke!
Look after your youths before they burn your arse in Paris!
HEY ENGLISH BOYS! NHS IS BANKRUPT! need our medicial help?JOKE!
LEHMAN F’ukin BROTHERS!! BIGGEST JOKE!!!
Symons.. hmm english!hahahaa

“In the UK, members of the House of Lords have been accused of using their influence to help amend legislation in exchange for cash” (Guardian 2009)

HAHAHAHHA house of lords!!! the highest and noble in your country… maybe ’cause they’re not paid enough?? sell the crown jewel to the Arabs… it’ll solve the problem…

Eric on Fri, 4th Dec 2009 10:21 pm 

Oh sorry i forgot.. DUBAI can’t pay up the BILLIONS THEY OWE!! JOKE!!!!

Stop talking about others when you can’t take care of yourselves.. Singapore doesn’t owe $$ our crime rates are low( Oei!! the new immigrants r causing a rise but still low for a 1st world city), our youths are well educated ( Too much control but won’t burn our arses and cars) We have good medical care( TOO expensive!! but not broke) and our banks r safe and happy ( IF NOT FOR F’ukin LEHMAN!!)

Jokes’ on you mate! Cheers~

Get Real on Sat, 5th Dec 2009 12:11 am 

Eric on Fri, 4th Dec 2009 10:21 pm

“Oh sorry i forgot.. DUBAI can’t pay up the BILLIONS THEY OWE!! JOKE!!!!”

YES, YOU ARE DEFINITELY JOKING.

Dubai’s cash flow problems originates from global financial meltdown in the west BUT IT IS ONLY A STORM IN A TEA CUP. Many pessimist sold stocks, currency and commodities when news of their crunch became public BUT ALL WRONG.

Contrary to fears, it DID NOT cause another market meltdown like Lehman Brothers! Those who bought on Monday bought at the dip – at a cheap entry price. Market rebounded including commodities and currencies.

And for anyone who are in natural resources industry, they would know that (for timber for example) Georgia Pacific grew faster than all its competitors because it took financial leverage on the strength of timber resources as collaterals fo future income. So did Dubai using oil.

Yes they are stuck for now. Did the bankers and Governments panicked globally?? The simple answer is NO!!

Why, Dubai is sitting on a puddle of oil with decades of production in reserves. It is a rich man with cash flow problems and will redeem easily.Who knows what oil sitting off-shore from Dubai in the Persian Gulf, not drilled of deep exploration till now? Recent big oil and gas find off Brazil, Mexico and Israel are as deep as 17,000 metres!!

Singapore structural economic problems are much more deeply rooted and embedded for dependency on foreign investment. No resources and no external arm. Our policy choices are much more limited NOW THAT THE REST OF THE WORLD HAS CAUGHT UP ECONOMICALLY EVERYWHERE.

If I were you, I sober up to reality. Tough times are ahead for Singapore. Celebrating the past is foolish self-aggrandization to untenble outcomes of future prospects.

WHICH IS WHY THE GOVERNMENT IS AGAIN RESTRUCTURING OUR ECONOMY SO SOON AFTER THE LAST ONE IN 2003!

This is painful reality, Eric.

Eric on Sat, 5th Dec 2009 10:10 am 

Wow thanks for the business analysis… ding ding u r CNBC?? wrong thread dude u should be commenting on the economist..We are talking about countries with all their problems shouldn’t be poking in ours! Please read my comments thoroughly before picking on the final joke and write an econs thesis (your analysis by the way) .. BORING!! outta topic….

ANGMOs are filled with corruption to call us corrupted! bullshit! Corruption dates back to the old Roman empire to the present UK house of lords!

Get real on Sat, 5th Dec 2009 11:27 am 

Eric on Sat, 5th Dec 2009 10:10 am

“…Singapore doesn’t owe $$ our crime rates are low( Oei!! the new immigrants r causing a rise but still low for a 1st world city), our youths are well educated ( Too much control but won’t burn our arses and cars) We have good medical care( TOO expensive!! but not broke) and our banks r safe and happy ( IF NOT FOR F’ukin LEHMAN!!)..”

No part of this is business analysis?? Not outta topic and not BORING by your words?

This thread is about RANKING of corruption which the author felt misguided and misplace – not about corruption existing anywhere in the world, be it “Angmo” countries or here for that matter. The relevant key word is “ranking” which you can disagree.

I feel the author’s comment is right in the circumstances – THE RANKING IS MISLEADING when viewed in the context of statutory and common law applications of corruption and corrupt conduct.

Since business analysis is boring to you, let me offer you a legal definition of the true BROAD nature of corruption if it might inspire your deeper thoughts???

I google this from internet of Australian definition of corruption, it should be fairly approximate of the same of all Commonwealth countries, USA etc where common law precepts are practiced.

(2) Corrupt conduct is also any conduct of any person (whether or not a public official) that adversely affects, or that could adversely affect, either directly or indirectly, the exercise of official functions by any public official, any group or body of public officials or any public authority and which could involve any of the following matters:
(a) official misconduct (including breach of trust, fraud in office, nonfeasance, misfeasance, malfeasance, oppression, extortion or imposition),
(b) bribery,
(c) blackmail,
(d) obtaining or offering secret commissions,
(e) fraud,
(f) theft,
(g) perverting the course of justice,
(h) embezzlement,
(i) election bribery,
(j) election funding offences,
(k) election fraud,
(l) treating,
(m) tax evasion,
(n) revenue evasion,
(o) currency violations,
(p) illegal drug dealings,
(q) illegal gambling,
(r) obtaining financial benefit by vice engaged in by others,
(s) bankruptcy and company violations,
(t) harbouring criminals,
(u) forgery,
(v) treason or other offences against the Sovereign,
(w) homicide or violence,
(x) matters of the same or a similar nature to any listed above,
(y) any conspiracy or attempt in relation to any of the above.

The “Angmo” ( I hate this xenophobic word) conceptualisation of corruption could have encompass this broad definition of corruption and corrupt conduct.

Cheers