Indian engineer wants Singapore to recognize more “degrees” from Indian technical institutes
Written by our Correspondent
An Indian engineer working in Singapore by the name of Amitesh Basu has written to the Straits Times Forum today imploring the Singapore government to recognize more degrees from Indian institutes!
In a short letter, he wrote:
“Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong’s words on emerging technical institutions in China and India and his mention of the Indian Institutes of Technology (IITs) in a speech (’Cambridge faces stiff competition’, Nov 7) make me wonder why these institutes with respectable global rankings do not appear on the list of institutions whose degrees are recognised for registration by the Professional Engineers Board of Singapore.
his is despite the fact that several alumni of these institutes are faculty at Singapore’s technical institutes. The QS ranking, for example, places the IITs and four leading institutes in China ahead of all but four of the 14 Australian colleges and all but five of 47 British institutions on the Professional Engineers Board’s list.”
A quick search on linkedin reveals Mr Amitesh to be the Chief Civil / Structural Engineer at Foster Wheeler Asia Pacific. It is not known if he is a Singapore citizen or PR.
Mr Amitesh completed his education at the Indian Institute of Technology (Kharagupur) and the La Martiniere College in Lucknow.
With due respect to Mr Amitesh, his position can be easily replaced by a local engineering graduate with good honors or master degree from either NUS or NTU.
He can hardly be considered as a “foreign talent” whose skills are solely needed and missed by Singapore since its universities produce thousands of engineering graduates each year.
The relentless influx of engineers from India and China has helped depress the wages of local engineers. Some of them are actually assistant engineers taking on the roles of qualified engineers at a lower pay.
The starting pay of engineering graduate is currently between $2,400 to $2,800 a month, about the same as ten years ago. However, the cost of living has increased by more than doubled.
Inflation was at a record high of 6.7 per cent last year. The prices of HDB flats have also sky-rocketed especially that of resale flats.
The exact number of Indians working in Singapore is not known. Most of them work in the engineering and information technology sectors, jobs which can be taken up by locals.
Foreigners now make up some 36 per cent of Singapore’s 5-million population, up by almost 20 per cent compared to a decade ago.
Despite rising unhappiness and resentment on the ground, the Singapore government is adamant that immigration is essential to boost the nation’s flagging birth rates.
MM Lee Kuan Yew told Singaporeans off in no uncertain terms lately to “bear” with the tide of foreigners.
A Singapore ethnic Indian was shocked to find that his daughter being a minority in a kindergarten run by an Indian charity.
He is not alone. Many ethnic Chinese are also unhappy with the large numbers of “Ah Tiongs” or PRC Chinese who have flocked to Singapore to work and live.
With no political pressure or impetus on the ruling party to rethink its liberal immigration policies, Singaporeans have no choice but to try to “re-integrate” themselves into the new Singapore society.
Senior Minister Goh Chok Tong mused publicly to the press if Singapore should allow immigration “enclaves” to emerge in its HDB heartland.
Singaporeans may soon find themselves living in the midst of a little “Hubei” or “Chennai” in the not too distant future.
Related articles:
>> Singapore Indian shocked at daughter being a minority in Indian kindergarten
>> SM Goh mused about allowing immigration enclaves in Singapore
>> PR asked ungrateful Singaporeans to wake up
>> Singapore PR complained that Singaporeans are not proud of their country
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Boo on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 3:43 pm
The incentives for policy-makers on inflow of foreign “talent” is very simple….
(1) Minister’s salary = Earnings CEOs and owners of companies
(2) Earnings of CEOs/owners increase if they have an endless source of cheap labour
Combination of (1) and (2) will tell you why our national policy on inflow of foreigners is as such.
Old Guy on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 3:47 pm
WORK or PLEASURE ?
Work
Welcome to singapore !!
My Friend !!
cy on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 3:56 pm
Indian institute of technology graduates are the elites in india. their admission is extremely tough, even tougher than Ivy league. MNCs like microsoft,ibm etc. likes to recruit IIT graduates.
Indeed their degrees should be recognised by singapore PE board.
Lehman Brothers on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 3:59 pm
I don’t agree with this article, because the prestige and quality of the IITs is world-renowned, and I do think that anyone who has a good degree from any of the IITs deserves to be classified as “talent”.
It is true that there is a certain mismatch in the PR application process, considering the recent farce with Zhang, but people like Mr Amitesh are the ones Singapore should attract.
I agree with Mr Amitesh’s view that IIT degrees should be recognised in Singapore, while the shady diploma that Zhang produced should not.
Newhik on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 3:59 pm
I fear this article has done a disservice to Singaporeans as it reflects us as Xenophobic.
I thought that Mr Basu has a valid point and that the days of Western worship (or Chong Yang in Chinese) are over. India, China or any Asian Institutes has developed top students, so why do these professional bodies not recognise the status of these institutions.
What my gripe is not the influx of Foreign talents but rather the lax control that incumbent party has over the issue.
They should promised to look into the situation and reflect on the success of their open door policy, instead of telling Singaporeans to suck it up without doing anything
AndyC on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 4:32 pm
Unfortunately, many of these “Foreign Talents” believe that just because Singapore has let them in, they are somehow intellectually superior to native Singaporeans. This appears to be especially prevalent among Indian nationals. They need to get a F’ing life.
There’s plenty of anecdotal evidence that not only are they NOT intellectually superior to our local grads, they contribute significantly less to the local economy than would a local grad in the same job.
What A Joke on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 4:40 pm
What a joke. What the indian dude is doing is like coming to your house, requesting that you tell him that the curry he cooked tastes good and then asking you to eat up his curry. It’s rubbish.
Political SalesMaN on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 5:17 pm
Choo Wee Keong previous Jalan Besar MP said: Too many Indian Blackout the whole of Buffalo Road,If PaP gov.listen to these Indian,LKY have to change color to black.The whole of Singapore
blackout.
Singaporean parent on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 5:23 pm
To Newhik on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 3:59 pm,
I disagree, to a certain extend
Yes this Indian writer may have graduated from IIT, but I would not qualify him as a talent just yet. In other words, I agree with
“He can hardly be considered as a “foreign talent” whose skills are solely needed and missed by Singapore since its universities produce thousands of engineering graduates each year”
However I do feel uncomfortable about the TR author’s readiness in using this Indian writer’s article (of quite innocent request to PE to recognize IIT) and extend it to the unhealthy level of foreigners here… they are really quite different issues, in my opinion
Newhik on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 5:36 pm
To: Singaporean parent on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 5:23 pm
I’m not saying that Mr Basu is a definite talent or suggest anything of that matter. I just felt that the point Mr Basu was trying to make is that local professional bodies don’t recognizes Asian Institutes, although they scored better globally as compared to the Western counterparts.
My point was that the TR was too quick to jump the gun and condemn Mr Basu on his “demand” and to accept all graduates from said institutes. This makes us appear xenophobic, for not recognizing them. Recognizing their awards and justifying the foreign talents are not quite the same.
citizenofSG on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 5:58 pm
Been to India, met an educated chap who claim to be a civil engineer, not sure what is his qualification. His pay in India is only 10,000rupees, that was about 4 years ago. His pay roughly work out to be two hundred plus sing dollars close to three hundred dollars.
I am not sure about the degree discussed here, but hope that those with knowledge could share why their engineers are so lowly paid in India. Perhaps their pay may have risen significantly but I very much doubt so.
janetnt on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 6:57 pm
An issue hijacked by the writer for his/her private agenda. We are discussing if his cert is recognized and not if he is a talent or not. Whole diff thing. Imagine you go to Canada and they say NUS NTU no valid.
Cpt on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 7:19 pm
There are some very good engineer in india. Those given choice to work in america would be delighted. Singapore might be their alternate choice. Obviously the salary is higher as expat.
Political SalesMaN on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 7:28 pm
Proverd say: One rotten apple spoil the whole barrel!
Singapore education is the best in SEA. what more third country wanted to compare.Maybe by the back door.
WhiteHorse on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 7:44 pm
Those pundeks should juz go back to where they came from. It’s getting dark around here.
J on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 9:38 pm
The IITs are definitely top schools. There is no question on the quality of its graduates.
On the other hand, why was this letter chosen? Is this issue important to the readers of ST in any way? How many Singaporeans go to the IITs for their education?
Surely there are letters on issues of greater interest submitted to the ST?
pringles on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 9:44 pm
I think the govt should put more measurement to accept Indian engineer. A lot of Indian engineer really unqualified. And just make their way by faking their qualifications. Two of the Indian engineer that we hired cannot pass the probation period and many more that we find out faking their cv on interview period. The bad quality of Indian engineer is quite well known in IT local world. They usually willing to accept very low pay(some lower than 1800SGD). A lot of problems is created by these unqualified Indian IT engineer
Time for Change on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 9:55 pm
Oh please! Send them back. These people are a nuisance. They are rude and have no manners. Many of them think they are Ang Mohs and behave as such. Please, please send them back to Mumbai.
Time for Change on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 9:59 pm
Time for Change. Use your votes wisely.
fair and square on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 11:13 pm
YES!bring them in by the “truck-loads”!let’em swamp us!
we have just nus,ntu,smu and a few polys,yet so many people
are kicked out of jobs and are still out of work and the policy-makers still think they are great at “job-creation”?
even the FED’s Bernanke and his boss OBAMA have got a problem
with humongous US citizens’ UNEMPLOYMENT!!!
These folks are just great at DESTRUCTION,DON’T BE FOLLED AGAIN!YOUR TICKET TO A BETTER BRIGHTER FUTURE LIES IN YOUR VERY OWN HANDS…JUST USE THE PEN CORRECTLY THE NEXT TIME YOU GO TO THE POLLING STATIONS!!!
robin on Fri, 20th Nov 2009 12:02 am
sorry, TR, but this smacks of a personal agenda – more like an opinion than a piece of news. i agree with Newhik that you may have jumped the gun.
and from the article, we do sound like a bunch of xenophobics – which i’m pretty sure many of us are not. we’re actually very concerned with the screening process and how PRship is given. what is worse that the govt has not been very transparent with their recent policies.
furthermore, there are positions in the IT sector which lack local talent. where else would companies turn to to get good IT talent? india does have very prestigious IT-centric unis.
“The relentless influx of engineers from India and China has helped depress the wages of local engineers. Some of them are actually assistant engineers taking on the roles of qualified engineers at a lower pay.”
this is too much of a sweeping statement. you simply are meshing the influx of china chinese (who are mostly in front line service positions and labourers) together with engineers from india because it’s convenient to point the finger at them for depressing wages.
and putting “degrees” withing inverted commas suggest that we look down on indians. just because they are a developing nation, they are incapable of producing talent with legit qualifications?
John Potus on Fri, 20th Nov 2009 12:25 am
pringles on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 9:44 pm
Using fake CVs is a very common problem among the Indian IT engineers working in Singapore. I came across a few who obviously didn’t know what they were doing.
Funny enough, Indian nationals using fake CVs is a very common problem in India as well.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/Infotech/Software/Fake-CVs-are-ruining-IT/articleshow/1638027.cms
Employers don’t really want to know because they only want cheap foreign labour.
citizenofSG on Fri, 20th Nov 2009 3:16 am
It is extremely challenging to bring more IT Indian professional into Singapore. They are very cheap to employ. If you bring in a top grade Indian professional to work in Singapore, he is willing to earn less than a polytechnic student in Singapore.
Our own people will have a problem to curb with the influx.
Being a Singaporean, living in Singapore paying Singapore’s living standard how to compete with these Indian whose pay are meager back in India.
However if we do not allow them to come here, then job will go there, we are caught in catch 22.
The American’s presence in India inevitably resulting in the transfers of technology, hence the Indians have gained tremendous experience.
For those who employed faked Indian professionals, it is probably the system of screening is slack and too dependent on third parties. However it is better to give lower weightage to paper qualification but to take in more based on their experience instead. We can produce our own cohort of paper qualified engineers without major problem, we need not bring paper qualified Indians just to compete with locals.
We must only draw their top grade’s engineers to work with our inexperience locals to gain from their experience. There must be real technology transfer else it is better that we don’t have any of them over.
Singapore government must measure the technology gain with these people coming over to work and not looking at the dollars and cents. If our focus is technology gain then paper qualified engineers doesn’t measure up much. The net transfer of technology is more permanent while the economical factor varies at different times. In the process we must grow our local pool of professionals and not merely depending on foreigners.
There is no need to keep bringing these people and giving them PR. We must upgrade our people to be as good as them, anyway in time to come the cheaply imported people pay will rise to that of our very own or our people down to theirs. Things will eventually just balance out.
Old Guy 2 on Fri, 20th Nov 2009 9:33 am
## Old Guy on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 3:47 pm
WORK or PLEASURE ?
Pleasure ?
Welcome to singapore !!
My Friend !!
Work ?
Get Lost !!
Bloody Foreigner.
Jobless on Fri, 20th Nov 2009 2:15 pm
We have to be careful of taking in too many Indians from the sub-continent with fake degrees. Whether competent or not, they can be vocal troublemakers.
http://www.topix.com/forum/world/australia/T1K4FVV6QOGPDRUDF
fckupap on Sat, 21st Nov 2009 12:34 am
If these Indian engineers from IIT are so good, they should stay in India to build up the infrastructure. It is a joke that the Indian nationals are asking for international recognition in engineering but the country is a gigantic slum.
inevitable on Sat, 21st Nov 2009 5:49 pm
they buy their own degree from degree mills. so indian engineer think singapore is too strict? we have grounds to be strict when degree mills are so common everywhere.
Bemused on Tue, 24th Nov 2009 9:48 am
If you do not consider IIT graduates to be foreign talent then it only shows the lack of knowledge prevailing here. Some of the comments here are hilarious.
Clearly you have no access to unbiased information in this country hence have misinformed judgments about other countries and their people.
If India is a gigantic slum then why are Singapore companies queuing up there? You have no market of your own and therefore going around the world asking for free trade. When you face competition in the only market you have (labour force) you cry foul?
Az on Fri, 27th Nov 2009 1:16 pm
isn’t Indonesians cheap too? they can do as much work as the china or india folks
racist…period hahah…