Australian tourist complains about PRC workers in Singapore who cannot speak English!
November 19th, 2009 | 
Author: Written by our Correspondent
An irate Australian tourist from Brisbane by the name of Lilian Reutens had written to the Straits Times Forum to complain about PRC service industry workers who cannot speak proper English!
Ms Lilian was sharing her experience of encountering service staff who were unable to communicate in English:
“I have found the inability of current service industry workers to speak English unacceptable. I understand these new workers are Chinese nationals. The fact that they do not or will not speak English but simply shake their heads and continue speaking in Mandarin and ignore you with a ‘take it or leave it’ attitude does not reflect well as they are on the front line of service, serving many tourists and foreigners as well,” she wrote.
Mr Lilian did not specify where the unhappy incident took place, but PRC workers have become ubiquitous in Singapore’s service industry due to their easy availability and low labor cost.
Despite the efforts of the Singapore government to promote Singapore as an attractive tourist destination, Ms Lilian is one tourist who will probably not return to Singapore again.
She minced no words when she wrote a veiled criticism directing at the Singapore authorities:
“Foreign workers who are employed to serve the public should be taught basic English so they will not shame the image of Singaporeans who are all taught basic English in school. After all, tourists probably cannot tell Chinese nationals from Chinese Singaporeans.”
Most Singaporeans are bilingual while the newcomers from China often receive only rudimentary training in the English language, if any at all.
In other countries like Australia and Canada, foreign workers have to pass a basic English proficiency test before they are allowed to work there.
In contrast, the Singapore government has opened its doors indiscriminately to foreigners, especially those from China who are hugely “prized” for their uncanny ability and willingness to work for long hours with a low pay.
In response to the rising number of complaints on the ground, the Singapore government has set up a $10 million Community Integration Fund to help the newcomers “integrate” which includes free language courses for them.
Senior leaders from the government has been urging Singaporeans to accept foreigners of late, claiming that Singapore needs them to work in industries shunned by locals such as construction.
MM Lee Kuan Yew implored Singaporeans to “bear” with the tide of foreigners which has now grown to become a “flood”.
Jobs in the service industry where command of the English language is essential can be filled easily by locals instead of Chinese Nationals who are preferred now because they cost much less to employ.
For cost-conscious employers, they care more about their profit margin than the image of Singapore. The situation is exacerbated by the liberal and flexible labor laws introduced by the government to keep business costs to a minimum.
The Singapore Tourism Board spends millions of dollars each year to promote Singapore as a “cosmopolitan” city overseas.
It is a shame that tourists like Ms Lilian have walked away thinking that Singapore is a “province” of mainland China.
Not that the ruling party will care much anyway. New citizens will usually vote for the government and increasing their numbers surely help to entrench their power in the next fifty years or so.
As for true blue Singaporeans, they have no choice but to content with a future where they will soon belong to the minority of the population if the current influx of foreigners remains unabated.
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This is the price for cheap FT’s.
支那人 !
i get irked when 支那人 professionals (hello – they should have a basic command in English) speak to me in mandrain and expect me to reply in mandrain at my workplace!
i was from a SAP sch and even if you score A1 in CL1, you can never win a 支那人 when it comes to a verbal duel as mandrain is their mother tongue.
i only use mandrain with elderly chinese singaporeans or the blue collar PRC workers.
“After all, tourists probably cannot tell Chinese nationals from Chinese Singaporeans.”
That’s precisely why we do not want them to learn English!
Aiya.. just slap the sedition law on this Reutens woman. How dare she make fun of our foreign talents and newly founded citizens here.
Gahment say to integrate with our new citizens, never say integrate with the tourists. Must listen to gahment.
This is LKY’s mistake in the making, similar to the insistence of teaching Mandarin to students.
The after effects will be felt years later, after he is dead and saddle us with all these issues.
Another arrogant ang moh who thinks the whole world should speak English. Spend your money and go home, we dont need you hanging around in our country after you have spent your money.
30 years ago, a significant proportion of Singaporeans also cant speak English if not haltingly. So y should every Singaporean be able to speak fluent English, average life span is 78 in Singapore!
You guys are so mypoic and forgotten your roots!
I have written to several Businesses where they have employed China Chinese who cannot communicate in English……Many of these so called PRC Chinese are not only arrogant …they are arrogantly conceited and idiotic…..
In my letters to the Businesses I have told them in no uncertain terms that I will not patronise them again until they replae these useless PRC Chinese Frontline Employees with either Singaporeans or Fluent Speaking English Sspeaking Persons….
I also informed these Organisations that I will encourage all my family members and friends and colleagues NOT to PATRONISE them…
Sometimes it does work…they remove the useless frontline employees with English Speaking Employees…
All Singaporeans and tourists whould write to the Management of such Outlets and copy their letters to Ministry of Manpower, Singapore Tourist Promition Board and the various Chambers of Commerce.
It is time We stop the rot!
After spending so much time and money in the last 45 years, all the effort in promoting an English speaking society plus courtesy campaign went down the drain. These are taxpayers money wasted.
maybe in 20 years time. PM lee will say.. It’s a mistake to take in FT. Just like how his father say billingual is a mistake too
I think there is one job seldom people want to do!(Taoist)
U must learn three or Four type of languge to communicate with the opposit party. When U came across a Ghost U must communicate in Ghost languge.with Saint U must communicate in Saint languge, of cause Human with Human languge.
I am a Singaporean Chinese. I may not agree with some of the FT policies but I do not see it as a big issue for the frontline staff to not be able to speak in English. Will you complain when you are in Japan and have to deal with the frontline staff who are extremely good manner but couldn’t speak the language you spoke be in Mandarin or English? Use sign language! Or get help from people around you and not make a big fuss while you are on holiday! I travelled far and wide in Europe since the late 80s for study, work and leisure. There are still many countries where English is not spoken or understood but that doesnt stop me from visiting these places or fall in love with the place.
China trash flow to Singapore liao.
Its quite a challenge ordering at McDonalds nowadays if one does not know Mandarin. Even MM admitted that his Mandarin gets rusty if not used so its not an easy language to learn. Is Singapore trying to be a vassal state of China by flooding in PRC workers?
Mind you the mainland Chinese are picking up English quite fast, one only has to visit call centers in Dalian to notice that. Their women are much more beautiful and very soon the locals will loose all jobs to them.
it happened to me and my friend also at vienna buffet restaurant. all the staffs there are PRC, and i thought i was in mainland china. they speak rudely and loudly.
worse thing, those PRC assume all chinese can understand mandarin. i was there with friend from indonesia. she is a chinese, but she doesnt understand mandarin.
she asked one of the staff to clear her plates. that staff replied her with mandarin. my friend answered nicely that she doesnt understand and asked the staff to use english.
that staff told her: “dont be so proud, for using english. you are chinese also, should speak mandarin!”
Mm lky team does not care what this tourist said. As far as he want all china people to come here. Hd already have the pet panda for next 10 years.
I think the onus ultimately lies with the business owner when they hired the PRCs, as a result, Singapore’s image was tarnished.
By restricting these PRCs may not resolve the problem, as the root of the cause lies with the mentality of the business people and their customers, i.e All of us.
In my opinion, most businesses compete mainly on price and most us as customers do not really complain of bad service, or are willingly to pay for good service.
This involves a mindset change in our Singapore culture, which I am ashamed to say that I have no solution for this. Perhaps we need an Edward Demming of Singapore (like Japan) to educate us on quality and service and to prove to us that it is a more sustainable competitive advantage.
singapore is populated by chinese and other races..
whehter PRC chinamen or singapore chinese is no different to the ang moh..
Cannot speak english to you, then too bad
The ang moh must learn to speak mandarin or hokkien..
you think cannot speak to you ang moh very big deal?
Know how to speak english, also can pretend don’t know how to speak english..
why must suit you, one aussie fellow?
Old guy, these chingchongs came to our English speaking country of their own free will to seek work. It is they who have to adapt to our ways, not we adapt to theirs. In fact, by insisting on using Mandarin even with non-Chinese, they have proven that the government’s claim that foreign turds like them are more adaptable than locals is pure bullshit.
Do you mean to say that our local Malays, Indians, Eurasians & Peranakans must speak Mandarin to entertain the chingchong interlopers? If so, then you are a Chinese supremacist bigot and should be arrested under the ISA for sedition!!!!
Think about that.
Old Guy
You are old and you are also an old idiot. That Aussie guy represents millions of other foreign guys who come to Singapore to spend their money here to help your GDP grow, to help your retailers sell their things, to help shopping centres fill their retail shopping space, to help fill your hotel rooms, to help your transport, coaches and ancillary services, to help fill up your restaurants, and to help in so many other areas.
You old numb skull, though old, is filled with rubbish when you can’t even see this. The issue is not the Assie guy, the issue is who he represents. Our Tourist Promotion Board is spending millions of dollars every year to bring these guys here to further our economic growth and idiots like you are chasing them away.
Fools like you a plenty in Singapore.
Thanks for speaking up Ms Lilian Reutens. Singaporeans love you.
I have personally encountered many instances of rude behaviour from PRCs because I don’t speak Mandarin. I am so glad that someone has highlighted the situation. Retailers are preferring to employ cheap foreign labour who don’t speak English and discriminating against Singaporeans.
http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore/EDC091118-0000061/Frontline-staff-not-to-blame
the assuie fellow must gone to chinatown…
of course, the service staff there speaks mandarin..
you go orchard road, then the staff there will speak english..
you think the businessmen so stupid don’t know such things when they hire service staff ??
a lot of tourists in singapore are actually rich chinamen and chinawomen…
a lot of the ang mohs very poor and in debts now.. no time to come to singapore to spend money
and if they spend a little money, they want so much in return..
very stingy and calculative..!
I agree with the article that Singapore is becoming a province of China but I don’t agree that we are helpless.
Singaporeans have the right to vote. We should use it wisely to vote for Change. Not to do so would be catastrophic.
Time for Change is now.
Justice u are just another idiot who cant see beyond his nose. U dont need to know English to make money from ang moh and most of the ang mohs in this world dont speak English, if the visiting ang moh can learn to appreciate another culture/ language, then they are not different from elitist myopic narrow mind idiots like yourselves!
Hi Sarah,
You must understand that Singapore is a English as first language country. So tourist do expect English speaking or at least Singlish speaking Singaporean to be attending to their needs and not some PRC who cannot even speak a sentence and continue with their mandarin language to converse with customer.
there are 2 issues here.
a) Arrogant ang moh which cannot accept that someone in the world cant speak english. not forgetting english itself is a bastard language borrowing from French, German, Latin, etc, not exactly glamorous stuff. Such ang mohs should just stay in their own little comfort sphere and shut up.
b) We have too many foreigners staying in Singapore. For this PAP should got to HELL!
@ Old Guy on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 2:47 pm
@ I love my country on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 2:54 pm
Shopping tourists are UNLIKELY to be desperately in debt and poor – be it Ang Moh or Chinamen.
It is “customer service”. These two words don’t exist in Chinese vocabulary among retail staff in shopping districts in China. Count your blessing if they don’t short change you on quickly quality deception. Haven’t you ever got trapped paying 100 rmb for taxi ride only to be told – no change – and the driver give you a counterfeit in return. He earns your taxi ride plus your “stupid” tip of 100 rmb on top of that.
You won’t get the same treatment in Aussie land though. It is CUSTOMER SERVICE and if they can’t offer you the product you wanted, they tell you where is the nearest competitor you can shop for whatever you prefers. NO hard feelings of benefiting the customer and enriching his/her competitor. That require explanations in English for the foreign tourists. And in some tourist-oriented shops in Sydney, their Ang Moh staff speaks fluent Japanese or Chinese.
SO PLEASE LET US NOT BE STUPID OF SELF-INTEREST to deny the Aussie tourist complaint is LEGITIMATE AND REWARDING OF TELLING US TO PULL UP OUR SOCKS FOR YOUR OWN BUSINESS GOOD.
Justice is right.
The STPB had better wake up to reality and global competition if we want to fill our hotel rooms and our retailers to be happy as well.
I love my country
The other idiot is you. I am not talking about English here. I used the words “foreign guys”. Do you need to go back your language class? Where was the word “English” or “ang moh” being mentioned in my comments?
If you have no sufficient command of that language or any language don’t jump in and start criticising others unless you want to look like the idiot that you just shown yourself to be.
I mentioned that Aussie is being representative of all foreign guys (of whatever race, be there Caucasian, Asian, African, or otherwise). What’s so difficult to understand there ? Even someone with a primary education could fathom it. Only idiots cannot grasp such a simple point.
You love your country that you want to destroy it by sending your visitors away and damaging your tourism industry that is bringing in billions of dollars to your economy ? You love your country ? I think more so you love your arse because that’s where your brain is.
You are fighting a war created by your own delusional brain where the enemy is you yourself.
I love my country
I am an idiot. But you are a far greater idiot than me.
If you don’t know the gist of the subject matter of other people’s comments don’t interfere and put in irrelevant remarks. It just goes to show how stupid you are. We adults here are talking at tertiary level, and if your periscope can only see at primary level you should not engage in adult talk. And the reason why you can only look at the primary level is because you have eyes yet you do not see. Because you are stupid enough to use your nose which cannot see.
Let me ask you a very simple question. If a foreigner who does not look like an ang moh or Asian, but maybe say an African comes to you, can you tell me what language would you use to talk to him ? Now zip go wash your mouth, eat your own words and zip it up.
maybe this australian should start to learn chinese. afterall, its to her benefit, australia economy is dependent on china, her PM speaks chinese too.
Stupid idiot, you are both stupid and an idiot.
Arguing with u is pointless.
Just to humour you, increasingly more Africans might be able to speak Mandarin, given huge Chinese investments in the African continent and increase of bilateral trade between China and Africa.
And if u can even muster any language of your own well, you will just speak in any language which u think the other party migh understand. If all fails use sign language.
You are obviously a narrow minded individual who thinks the whole world should speak English, go back a century and pray hard that u were a white english or american then, u might be right.
Part of the problem stem from the ignorance of PRC workers about the rest of the world. They only have basic education. They do not know that there are many ethnic Chinese who have integrated into local environments and do not know how to use Chinese.
What is all this talk about racial or language superiority about?
The fact is, Singapore is KNOWN and ADVERTISED to be an English speaking country, where English is the official medium of communication.
Thus Lilian Reuten’s point is that:
1) Tourists will be surprised when they discover that they cannot communicate with service staff in English.
2) Tourists will go away with the conclusion that Chinese Singaporeans (not Chinese nationals) are not that proficient in English after all. This hurts their impression of Singapore as a whole.
3) Service staff seem totally unapologetic over their lack of mastery of English, which reeks of poor service standards. Especially so for a country where English is advertised as being the medium of communication.
Lilian Reutens is NOT suggesting that English is superior or that every country should speak English.
So all the “racial-pride” comments that Lilian should start learning Chinese or that Singaporeans need not learn English are totally MISSING THE POINT.
Justice
All you seem to care about is making money.
That’s all that there is to your view
Money was the probably the main topic in the 1st day in Pri 1. Absent since?
justice, you must go and work as a counter staff to serve ang moh..
your english is so good and they will not complain about you..
hurry, don’t waste your time !
the ang mohs are waiting to be served by you..
Dear “I love my country”, yes, while it might be true that one does not need to know how to speak English to make money from “ang mohs,” please remember that not every visitor to Singapore is an “ang moh” or rather, in more respectful and accurate terms, an English-speaking Caucasian. But that is not the point of the Australian lady’s criticism of the short-sighted practice of Singapore businesses in their employment of frontline service staff who cannot speak or understand English. You will begin to see the whole point or the bigger picture when you compare the standing of the English language against that of Mandarin in the world today. Regardless of your language bias, you cannot deny the fact that English, rather than Mandarin, is THE universal language of the world today. That is to say that from America to Zanzibar, English is more well-known and understood and used all over the world than Mandarin is. Bearing this in mind, it should be obvious that the majority of visitors to Singapore are more likely to be able to speak or understand English (whatever their level of proficiency in the language) than they would Mandarin! So, don’t you think it would make a helluva lot more sense to insist that ALL of our foreign frontline staff be able to at least speak some simple English (regardless of whether they come from Fujian or Tagaytay or Mumbai) for the sake of easier and oftentimes faster comprehension between the foreign nationals (both visitors and local-based workers), thus making the stay of our valued international visitors (tourists, business people, etc) to our country so much more pleasant and stress-free that they would want to return for more business and/or pleasure? For goodness sake, if one lady from Ozland can be so pissed off that none of our foreign service staff can understand her and give her what she wants, it is not unrealistic to imagine that if this scenario is multiplied many times over with the millions of visitors Singapore receives every year, then it is likely that many more non-Chinese-speaking visitors to Singapore will become so greatly pissed off in similar situations that they will not want to return here, right? Worse still if they complain to their countrymen back home, and discourage even more people from visiting Singapore to spend their money here!
For the same point I’ve made above, cy is also an idiot for insisting that the Aussie lady learns to speak Chinese. Hello! This is multi-lingual Singapore where English is the working language of the masses, and not bloody monolingual China! Why should the Aussie lady make things difficult for herself when there should have been a ready-made solution to her problem in the first place, that is, the staff should have been able to speak English!
It happened to me today where a Ah Tiong shuttle bus driver could not speak English and I ended up wasting 1 hour waiting. Furthermore this Ah Tiong was rude.
Previously at a restaurant at Boat Quay, I asked the waiter (another Ah Tiong) for recommendation on food to order and he couldn’t understand me also. He smiled and walked away when I decided to speak with another wait staff who can communicate in English.
Both provided bad customer experience, IMO.
Old guy, you’ve obviously have got nothing more to say since you’ve degenerated to making silly childish personal insults to Justice. As for I Love My Country, it’s not just about money, it’s actually all about UNIVERSAL COMMUNICATION! That is, making it easier and better for everyone in this country to understand one another, regardless of where they come from!
Can I believe what ‘I love my country’ is saying ?
He can’t even put together his thoughts coherently to present a clear picture of what he is trying to say. He is consumed by his hatred for Caucasians and his lack of grasp of the English language is creating an enemy within himself. In the breadth of the same paragraph of his own comments there appears to be self-contradiction. I dread to think that he only knows how to use the word “myopic” but doesn’t know the meaning of myopia. Ironic isn’t it?
What with his attempt to accentuate an English idiom out of the blue without knowing it was a plagiarism. The popular idom has it as “leading by the nose” but he has, by his mistake and ignorance, contorted it to “seeing through the nose”. What a joker.
“I love my country” thanks for the entertainment. No wonder there are no circus in Singapore (the clown is here).
It is, unfortunately, sad the situation that LKY has put Singapore in. He is truly a chameleon. When he thought it beneficial, he implemented English as a first language in all schools (ie. he was bowing American schlong). With the rise of China, and the enormous profit potential, he changed his colours and, Everyone! Quick… speak Mandarin! (ie. he’s flossing his teeth on chinese toothpicks). The only people in this discussion who fully understand the implications of Lilian’s comments are ‘reader on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 5:12 pm’ and ‘Bilingual Malay-English speaking Singaporean on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 5:17 pm ‘ The rest of you are the 66% that think with your rear orifice and kept the People?s Anal Party in power for the last 45 years. Well at least you’re all smart enough not to have kids, so that they may not have to live the wretched lives you do.
Bilingual Malay-English speaking Singaporean,
Don’t waste your breath on this ‘I love my country’ guy. He does not have the intellect to understand what we all are talking about here (sorry to be so blunt but it’s the only basic form of English that he probably understands less he thought it was a compliment). The irony of it all is that he while lamblasted others as suffering from myopia, it is he himself having a myopic view of the issue, with his view being blocked by his own myopia. How can he see the greater picture?
Like I said, I was not talking about that particular Aussie guy per se, but rather all foreigners as a whole (but his myopia is obstructing his ability to see the abstract). So I think we shouldn’t waste any more of our time attending to his insipid view of things.
Anyway, your comments are very well written and supportive of what I had said previously. I am glad there are quite a few out there who share our same approach of looking the matter from a wider and macro perspective. You are right to infer that, though the criticism was made by only an individual (Ms. Lillian), the significance of it has a much wider bearing, and that we should nip the problem by the bud and not allow the contagion to bleed and affect the views of other tourists and foreign visitors alike. In the long run it would be to our detriment to remain static.
Old Guy
For your information, I have an ‘ang moh’ working in my office who is reporting to me. So save all your wanton thoughts and criticism for yourself.
to Bilingual Malay-English speaking Singaporean and reader
Thanks for reading my comment.there’s no “racial pride” just personal thought.
1) i wrote “maybe”, i did not insist on her learning chinese, it is up to her to decide. as i stated, it is for her own benefit, whatever her decision, i am only suggesting, not forcing her.
2) while i agree that ‘the customer is always right”, whether the PRC worker should learn english is up to the worker,
the boss don’t think it is a problem to employ a worker who doesn’t speak english. surely, the boss has the right to decide, if he lose business, it’s the boss fault.
3)if more and more tourists decides not to come to singapore because of this problem, the boss will go out of business,govt will implement a law requiring service workers to speak english. let the market forces decide.
4)besides australians,there are also chinese tourists who don’t speak english, should chinese tourists also demand service workers to speak chinese? again let the market decides.
I will like to marry this aust girl anytime!! that way, I am forced to speak proper english with an ang moh accent! haha…
MOM stipulates that there is a quota for foreign workers in various sectors.
If you feel that there’s a suspiciously and disgustingly high number of FOREIGN TRASH working in an establishment, inform MOM at gan_kim_yong@mom.gov.sg , with cc to TR temasekreview@gmail.com
Do take note of the company name and address when you make a complaint.
Maybe if you all stopped saying “ang moh”, for starters…
ji chiam chi, ji chiam huey, one cent value, one cent worth mah
copied from ST discussion board
chuotuhu
Today, 05:14 PM
Aiyoh hard to be Singaporean.
People from China and Taiwan expect us to speak Mandarin because the majority of us are ethnic Chinese.
Malaysians and Indonesians expect us to speak Malay because it is our national language.
Now an Australian expects us to speak English because she can’t tell the difference between Chinese nationals and Chinese Singaporeans.
I wonder whether Indians from India expect us to speak Tamil because it is one of our official languages.
elaborating on market forces,
actually we need not govt to intervene, businessman who are smart enough will employ english-speaking staff to serve those who want english-speaking service workers. of course, wages may be higher but then you have to pay for that extra service.
if this businessman makes money, other businessman will be attracted too. so, there you have businesses employing english-speaking staff as you wanted.
if the business don’t make money, it may show that the market demand for english speaking service workers is too small.
so, let the market decide.
WE should had spoke Malay to the Australian woman.
Time for Change. Use your votes wisely and be free.
Yep… vote for change! Where is our voice to be heard?
Dear cy (9:57pm):
“so, let the market decide.”
I agree that in most cases, we should let the market work its magic instead of trying to get the govt involved.
But in this particular case, we can likely imagine that market pressures will be weak. This is because the majority of Singaporeans are Chinese who are comfortable with basic Mandarin. Not to mention the ever-growing numbers of PRCs.
Any boycotting will thus come from the other races and non-Mandarin speaking tourists. As their numbers are significantly lower, there may not be enough incentives for business owners to emphasize English proficiency in their employees.
However, the inconvenience to our Malay and Indian Singaporeans is very real, and so is the damage to Singapore’s international reputation.
All that is required from our govt, is to administer basic English proficiency tests to incoming immigrants. This has the added benefit of ensuring that they are real “talents” and won’t have trouble integrating in our society.
The costs are small but the benefits will be significant. Isn’t this better than relying on market forces alone?
Aiyah! This Australian lady is also kinda patronizing. Does she not realize that all Singaporeans below a certain age were not just taught ‘basic English’ in school, but that the language of instruction and first language *is* English, exactly the same as in Australia!
@janetnt on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 10:32 pm
“WE should had spoke Malay to the Australian woman”.
Aussie Ang Moh could have come from a cosmopolitan background. She might swore expletives violently back at you in Ukrainian or Polish.
What would be your answer?
Kan_Cheong: Gahment say to integrate with our new citizens, never say integrate with the tourists. Must listen to gahment.
Ha! Ha ! Ha!. To the tourist from Aussie. Not happy don’t come. Australia service industry are not any better, this is pot calling the kettle black.
Excuse me folks,
Don’t forget our fellow local Indians, Malays, Baba, Eurasian etc citizens….do you expect them to also speak mandrain to those FT/FW PRCs…
Do please remember too that Singapore was bought by Raffles on behalf of the British Empire…before that it was just a mostly unpopulated island.
Who originally dictated the primary language to be use? The British Empire.
And now we must now go with mandrain because of a “rising” China? Based on what…fear or worship…i dun mind speaking or using my so called “mother tongue mandrain”….the problem is i am cantonese….or a hokkien or a malay or a indian or a eurasian…tell where is the logic of having FT/FW staff from China or even India…and in my OWN country called Singapore i must speak their primary language Hindi or Mandrain…It is understood when one go to rome, one must follow the all in rome…which is when i go to China or Italy or India…i am expected to at least be able to speak the local lingua fraca or primary language [like mandrain or hindi or etc]…
These FT/FW is in our country…and are considered to be “guests” in Singapore…and we the local citizens MUST speak to them their own language…ARE YOU TELLING ME WHEN SOME GUEST COMES TO MY HOME I AM SUPPOSE TO CONVERSE IN HIS ? HER LANGUAGE FROM HER OWN COUNTRY INSTEAD OF MY OWN HOME COUNTRY!!!!
Only a nickapoo and un-thinking fool will do allow that and even accept that…
This is your own country you are talking about..this is SINGAPORE…NOT CHINA…NOT INDIA…NOT JAPAN…NOT ITALY…this SINGAPORE….and YOU SHOULD FIT IN…NOT the local born citizens should FIT IN OR CHANGED TO THE REQUIREMENTS/EXPECTATIONS OF THEIR COUNTRY OF ORIGIN….THEY CAME TO SINGAPORE SO THEY JOLLY WELL CHANGE TO FIT IN WITH US LOCAL BORN CITIZENS, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.
sturmtruppen
A little correction there to your comments that “before that it was just a mostly unpopulated island”. Before the advent of Raffles, Singapore had an indigenous population made up of Malays (most of whom were of Javanese and Bugis descent). Unfortunately due to the policies of the British which encouraged immigration, the influx of these people (mostly from China) had overwhelmed the indigenous ones, who now constitute the minority portion of our nation.
It was precisely because of their “loss” of indigenous sovereignty that the PAP government, after forming the first government upon full independence, awarded this group special rights and privileges in our Constitutions.
Sad on Fri, 20th Nov 2009 10:45 am
You must be a PRC, otherwise you would know that Singapore depends heavily on tourism.
Please keep your ignorance to yourself.
Singaporeans, and I mean Singaporeans, have worked hard to build up this nation and now cheap foreign labour is destroying our reputation.
To cy, I apologise for misinterpreting you the first time around. However, I still stand by my earlier points that since the majority of overseas visitors are more likely to be able to speak/understand English rather than Mandarin, it would therefore make more sense to insist that our foreign service staf be required to learn to speak English. So, while I do agree to a certain extent that your suggestion that it would be beneficial for the Australian lady to learn Chinese, you fail to understand that such a retro-active “solution” would come a little too late for Ms Reutens (the Aussie Lady). Just ask yourself, what good is it for Ms Reutens to go back home and then start learning Chinese when it did not solve her most pressing needs at the time when she most needed to be served, there and then, when she was in Singapore, by someone who could have understood what she wanted if only they knew how to speak English in the first place! That’s why I said why should the Aussie lady or any other non-Mandarin speaking person have to make things difficult for themselves, when the management of such establishments could have had the wisdom of employing service staff who could speak English in the first place, and so save everybody (especially the customers) a whole lot of trouble and bother, to begin with?!!!
And so, I agree with reader at 6.28 am on 20 Nov, that letting market forces decide the outcome of this problem, is not the solution. Rather, the government and service industry leaders first need to acknowledge this problem and then come up with effective and immediate solutions to this problem (e.g. requiring by law that all foreign service staff pass a basic English proficiency test before service establishments can employ or continue to employ them). Otherwise, more and more non-Chinese-speaking tourists and business people will shun Singapore because they’ve all become so sick and tired of being ignored by non-English-speaking staff or using primitive methods like sign language just to get what they want.
And I agree and sympathise completely with sturntruppen about the impact this problem has been having on our native non-Chinese Singaporeans who do not speak Mandarin during all the past years up till the present that this policy of hiring non-English speaking Chinese nationals in service positions has been in place. Whether they realize it or even care about it, it is not only alienating the non-Chinese-speaking Singaporeans against these Chinese nationals who refuse to learn English, it is also alienating the non-Chinese Singaporeans against those Singaporeans who are Chinese-language Chauvinists like Old Guy and “I Love My Country” who defend this policy even if it means causing division in our multi-racial, multi-cultural nation.
To cy, I also apologise for calling you an idiot. Please forgive me, as I was carried away as a result of reading the fascist bullshit of Old Guy and “Ilovemycountry”. Mea Culpa.
To reader and Bilingual Malay-English speaking Singaporean
thanks for replying, i accept your arguments provided that there is a market failure that needs to be corrected by the govt.
I understand it is hard to speak to a service worker who is speaking a different language. but, the fact that my parents who speaks very little english (i am sure many older generation are the same too) can speak a bit of malay to communicate with their counterparts shows that when the push comes to the shove, ppl will make an effort to learn a new language, whether it is to do business, to buy things, or for religious purpose or dating opposite sex or etc.
Let me just put it like this and I think I speak for my fellow people here as well.
As an ethnic Singaporean Indian, it is becoming harder for me to identify with this Sino-Centric new policy of the Singapore government.
Only patriotism is keeping me from quitting my job here and finding employment somewhere else in this world.
Chinese people, this issue is not just about you. Do you guys really want a completely homogenous Singapore? If you are prepared to see a human capital flight of Indians and Malays and Eurasians and Peranakans, then go ahead and support PAP’s policy.
Until then, multi-ethnic Singapore is more now an idea than a reality.
In the words of this 4th Generation Singaporean Indian – This country is now just another Hong Kong or Taiwan. Makes no difference to me.
And Congrats to me, my Danish work visa just came in today. Salut!
Oh and by the way guys, thanks to this Speak Mandarin bullshit campaign, PRCs dont speak English but get this, construction workers from India and Bangladesh do.
@ KK on Sat, 21st Nov 2009 9:23 am
All ethnic minorities is PART OF SINGAPORE FAMILY, so I empathise your thought – genuinely. I am of Chinese origin, speaks Mandarin but unable to read nor write that language and found doing business in China severely handicapped but even China does international business in English. ENGLISH IS AND MUST BE THE LANGUAGE OF BUSINESS.
All migrants and foreign workers must either speak English on the job or have quick access to translation in English work instruction and communication. In a selling job, you cannot hire a sales person and a translator to accompany, so if PRC workers cannot speak English, they have NO reason to be in that role. The employer must have been looking for cheaper, faster but NOT better. It frustrate tourists and local residents alike.
Question is why our migration laws are so wide open that even a dozen PRC non-English speaking elephants walking in a straight line shoulder-to-shoulder could march in??
IT IS A FAILURE OF GOVERNMENT AND EMPLOYERS AND NTUC LOOKING THE OTHER WAY SCREAMING CHEAPER, FASTER AND DREAMING OF BETTER for the employers.
It is just the ethnic minorities who are short-changed, it is Chinese majority, foreign tourists and all other legitimate local residents from other nationalities working here all got whacked.
Well it is not being reflected by the government. It will not take long for a Singaporean Indian/Eurasian to migrate to US/Australia/Europe.
It will not take long for a Singaporean Malay to go back to Malaysia where the SGD will appreicate and where he will actually get preferential treatment.
And amongst all this, keep in mind the constant Singaporean Chinese migration overseas.
You are actually left with very incompetent citizens and a whole lotta migrants behind. As small as it may seem, this sort of a demographic shift is very easy for a small country. Within 5 years we see a small immigration policy yielding so much problems.
Well guys, as an Oxford educated Singaporean Indian, this is really the breaking point. My salary is now 20% cut because of the rage hiring of India Indians and PRC Chinese.
I am leaving to Denmark in 2 weeks to work where I get paid 250$ more in Danish Krona (very strong currency).
So well, there you go. And just for your information, I am in very good company. Lots of Singaporeans are also doing the same thing.
you guys should read some of the things they say on ST forum :
http://comment.straitstimes.com/showthread.php?t=27064
Dear KK,
You’ve made a wise decision.
Welcome to Xinjiapo, the latest province of the People’s Republic of China. They mainland Chinese are everywhere. Sure, some of them are nice folks and intelligent professionals, but you will be overwhelmed and assimilated. The Singapore which you have grown up in is no more.
This mass import of mainland Chinese is both an economic issue, as well as a political one.
Economic – next to ‘work or starve’ old folks, mainland Chinese are the ones willing to slog long hours for shitty pay. Thanks to the care of NTUC and the tripartite plantation owners of Singapore Inc., you will find them at fast food chains or wiping tables at eating places. Hardworking? Maybe. Exploited? Definitely.
Political – Singaporean Chinese are not breeding fast enough. The Lightning Bolt party needs the Chinese majority to maintain its hegemony.
An irate Australian tourist from Brisbane by the name of Lilian Reutens had written to the Straits Times Forum to complain.
An irate Singaporean man from Bishan says:
Hey, hey, hey, even if it’s dirt, it’s our dirt.
So… Even if they are rude, irritating, unhygienic, inconsiderate, arrogant, chauvinistic, tardy and indifferent, THEY ARE OUR PRCs.
Hey, hey, hey, nobody other than Singaporeans trash-talks our PRCs!
We, Singaporeans, are quite capable of bashing OUR OWN PRCs. Who the hell does this Reutens-goooo-day-mate woman think she is, Nicole Kidman?!
I say “Kangaroos & Kuala-Bears are ugly”. “Kangaroos & Kualas get eaten by Lions”. Take that Aussie woman.
To KK (contributor of a few entries above)
Wow, so you’re an “Oxford-educated” singaporean!
What’s the matter, didn’t get into Harvard? Oh, poor thing…
Yes, why don’t you brag more. Ox-bridge’s so 1980s… please…
Silly people
In case you didn’t know Oxford (officially 1167) and Cambridge (1209) are older and more venerable universities than Harvard, which was a later day American institution (1636). You were a little too presumptuous there. Some academics from Oxford went to set up Cambridge University in 1209 after some disputes with the townsfolk. The two highly acclaimed English institutions share a lot of common grounds and are commonly known as Oxbridge.
JUSTICE
So you’ve proven that you have formidable googling skills. I’m impressed.
Are you a wikipedia-android in disguise? I mean duh!? Even the dude next door and his pet cat are familiar with what you just said.
Are you attending ox-bridge? If so, why don’t you transfer to a real school like Princeton or Cornell, even UPenn or Brown are fine.
“In case you didn’t know”, with your ox-bridge background, you can at least get onto the waiting list; well worth a shot my Anglo-centric friend.
Hi Justice
Can I offer some friendly advice
if you’re thinking about applying to state universities [ie: non-ivy league (officially 1865)], it may be less worth it. It’s because they are only SLIGHTLY BETTER than Oxford (officially 1167) and Cambridge (officially 1209) and it would just be too much of a hassle to do all the credit transfers etc.
I think you’ll be better off staying where you are and compete for jobs based on work experience but not the quality of your education. Although it’s important to note that should you transfer out of Oxbridge earlier, YOUR NOSE WON’T BE SO FAR UP THE BOTTOM of PRINCE CHARLES. (well the use of prince Charles here is arbitrary and can be substituted by the name / royal title of other snooty Englishmen)
Btw, the average janitor at MIT (officially 1882) is 283.24% more talented than an Oxbridge graduate, true story.
This posting by Jumba Juice (officially 2009)… … officially.
Lol Jumba Juice,
I’m very curious.No doubt MIT is better than Oxbridge.However,how do you quantify how talent someone is?Hence the 283.24% more talented than a typical Oxbridge graduate?
@Silly people terminator on Sun, 22nd Nov 2009 11:41 pm
You whacker! Our dinky-di roos are different from your funny Sinky kangaroos. Even our koalas road signs Down Under tell you mob to please drive carefully on our Ozzie highways unless you want to keep our ambos busy. So please dun try this Dunny rat business with us. You are just a kangaroo loose in your top paddock.
Silly People & Jumba Juice
Thanks for your perverse thoughts. And no I am not Oxbridge trained. Nor am I Americanised like you.
Sorry to disappoint you, I am Singaporean bred and don’t talk with potatoes in my tongue like you, and had my humble education from our own University of Singapore, and herefore, not in the high pedestal class of yours to have the honour and privilege to discuss issues at such high level of your disposition. May your excellencies please pardon my transgression.
Go bootlick Obama.
I didn’t know we have 2 American egomaniac bootlickers here at this forum. Maybe we should call the other bootlicker Dr John Ng to come help get these 2 delusional guys out from their inferiority complex and feelings of inadequacy.
Anonymous
They ain’t skippy kangaroos. They’re just a bunch of Amerigo bootlickers who think their Harvard, MIT, Princeton, etc are the best schools in the world. Just give them the satisfaction they have been missing all this while. Let their outbursts manifest the qualities representative of their Yankee upbringing.
Hey Silly People terminator / Jumba Juice
What’s the matter with you 2 idiots? Just because you couldn’t qualify for admission to Cambridge and Oxford you had to run the two institutions down like dead meat. and that 283,24 % talent is a paltry figure compared to the 999.9 % of our dishwasher Ah Sohs working at our food court who sweated and toiled to bring home the money so that they could send you 2 shitholes to some degenerate American colleges they call Universities.
And just because upon your return you find your degrees do not rate very well here, and only those from Harvard. MIT, Princeton, Cornell (which incidentally, other than churning our fuzzy confused and inadequate kids such as the 2 of you, only know how to put their name on electrical appliances which don’t work very well anyway) have some bearing here, and even at that, only on the substitute bench waiting for an opening which becomes available when Cambridge or Oxford or Imperial College grads make a pass on that lucrative job offer.
And “Anon” MIT is no way “better” than Oxbridge. Ask our scholars. They know best. Marks for technical, technological and business studies at MIT & Harvard, but zero for character and mental development. That’s why we have products much like the chimpanzees shrieking their pieces of inadequacies and inferior complex syndrome lamblasting established and venerable institutions which have produced countless numbers of gentlemen scholars year after year.
These 2 goons sound and behave exactly like Ahmadinejad of Iran, who stole the Iranian elections and claimed the Holocaust did not happen.
They have the audacity to boast and trumpet to Singaporeans that they have been through the US education system. I say to them go take any job and bring in the dole and repay the debt you owe to your Ah Soh mums who are working their arses out to pay for your stupid education.
Smug Arses
You are quite right with your insight on Silly People & Jumba Juice. They are trying to portray an air of smugness maybe, perhaps, to disguise some inadequacies. Certainly humility is not one of the virtues they have.
And you are also right in your observation that most of our scholars prefer Cambridge or Oxford over Harvard and MIT. I can only speak for myself in attestation of this as Cambridge had been my preferred choice during my time. But it was not difficult to draw a summary conclusion on that count as a number of fellas in my cohort had the same preference. Prestige is one factor, but subjects of interest and studies also play important parts in determining the destination, whether it be Anglo or American ones.
I guess the more commercially inclined students would want to head for H & MIT as they are more oriented towards this field, while those who prefer law, the humanities, and sciences, etc. might head for English shores. Contrary to what Jumba Juice had suggested with his intelligence barometer, the high standard of these institutions are not intrinsic values embedded in the schools per se, but actually is carried through by the clarity of thought, eloquence, and conduct of their by-product students. A good student exalts his school, and a bad one degrades it.
Intelligence has never been a product churned out from these institutions. It is instead, a pre-determinant of entry, by which means any institution of learning can reach its own level of anticipated esteem by applying high entry requirements and strict adherence to such regulations. They are only limited by commercial considerations, as building up reputation takes many generations.
For those who still rate these institutions in a childlike fashion with the ranting of “my school is better than your school” mentality as displayed by Silly People & Jumba Juice (my apologies for the reference here, but they provide very pertinent examples) let me state emphatically that a good student will excel and produce the same result (more or less) no matter which institution he goes to. If for anything, the preferred institution offers nothing more than a perceived esteem that has been attached to it, the rest are entirely his own efforts.
I should know. I have been there, done that. And I thank god for giving me the opportunity that some others could only afford in their dreams.
Humble Scholar
I agree with your comments. They have been given from a rather neutral and impartial perspective, and therefore, more objective than the discordant rant of, as pointed out by Smug Arse, “my school is better than your school” mentality of Silly People and Jumba Juice.
In my opinion, I also agree with Justice that Cambridge and Oxford are more venerable, more esteemed, and definitely more established than Harvard or MIT which are later day institutions. In fact, my first choice had been Cambridge, but unfortunately, I was not offered the privilege of entry. However, I managed to wriggle my way into Harvard consequently.
No love lost on Cambridge anyway. It still has my utmost respect.
She is trying to make something out nothing. Probably Ms. Lilian just want to promote Australia of its colonize culture and its an English speaking country where Mandarin is useless in ordering food. Oh common, we Chinese or my Malay kawan friend all must know each mother tougue and feel proud of it. And for a traveller, they should be learning our multi culture rather than bring their racism attitude here. Go back down under mate!
I deal with Aussie and they champ singaporean for the complain award.
Sure sounds like Silly People and Jamban Juice are Oxbridge rejects who had to settle for second best in the slums of Boston. The sound of grinding axes and the acid hiss of envy is deafening. Wassa marrer bozos? English not quite up to scratch? Couldn’t come up with an original thought?
Well, tough that you blighters didn’t make it this time but better luck in your next lives, eh? Help yourselves to the humble pie.
Ooh “Mr Justice for all”… University of Singapore? So this means that you’re old… very old… No wonder you’ve lost touch with academia. Dear venerable sir, are you one of the pioneers that lived under British-ruled-Singapore? Did you have the privilege to meet Raffles in person? Are you an immortal in disguise? How excited were you with the advent of electricity? (Hey it’s the best huh, no need for kerosene lamps no more; Thomas Edison rocks)
To my most beloved and equally venerable Aussie friend…
Pardon my ignorance but please define:
1) whacker
top paddock
2) dinky-di
3) roos
4) sinky
5) ozzie
6) ambos
7) dunny
I tried google but there were no results for any of these. Hell, I even tried the Australian version of google: (Google’day’mate) and still no results! I really tried my very best to learn Australian, but gosh it’s just too difficult a language.
I am so sorry mate.
Milo
Spot on Milo! Well said.
Silly and Jamban are real stooge. Rejects of Cambridge and Oxford who couldn’t qualify and are taking out their frustrations on anyone they think are Oxbridge grads by degrading and sullying the esteem of the institutions and their high standards of academic excellence..
Jambu is real pathethic with his sarcasm, the psychology of it all displayed from his neurotic outburst definitely portray him to be a man of low integrity and certainly someone with an axe to grind against Oxbridge. His mentality and acuity is ONLY SLIGHTLY BETTER than a 10 year old boy (to borrow his mischievous ranting).
Hey Jambu grow up will you. If you don’t I’m afraid the only job you get is washing Jambans.
Forward on Tue, 24th Nov 2009 4:37 am
G’ day Mate, are you a fair dinkum figjam?
Jumba Juice on Tue, 24th Nov 2009 9:11 am
whacker = dickhead
dinky-di = genuine
roos = kangaroos
sinky = “singlish” descript for Singaporeans
Ozzie = Aussie (Australian or Sydney Olympic version Oi Oi Oi)
ambos = ambulance
dunny = cunning trick
roos loose in your top paddock = stupid idiot.
Jumba Juice
Hey Jumban Juice, the type that is flowing out with the shit in your arse, you are sicko to the core.
I couldn’t find anything wrong or objectionable with what Justice For All has written. That delusional, insipid and imbecile mind of yours is really going to tatters. Why be so sour a grape ? If you results slip did not enable you to qualify for Cambridge/Oxford, or even our NUS, it’s no point going round degenerating your already battered ego by putting down others who have succeeded.
Nothing but sour grapes. Degenerate who worships degenerate universities are talking with shit in mouth.
Jamban University is where you are fit to go. It’s only SLIGHTLY BETTER THAN Harvard and MIT and the state universities and the ivy league ones. The Jamban U janitors have 284.24 % intelligence, that’s 1 % more than your MIT janitors, and certainly can do a lot better in maintaining clean toilets than your MIT ones, and that’s why there are a lot of shit leftovers in the compounds of MIT.
Hello, I just received a notice from IMH about a sicko patient running around gunning down anyone associated with an English institution of higher learning which rejected his application, but instead referred him to IMH to get his degree. This guy has been reported to be dangerous as he is well armed and indiscriminate with his shooting – he shoots with shit from the mouth and the arse.
At least Silly People know how to stop when the game is lost.
Hey guys, let’s leave this delusional guy alone. I see no point in engaging him any further on the whimsical issues he brought up.
Jesus!!!! I’ll be so PISSED if i don’t get my triple big mac with special sauce on the side. Haha its the little things aye?
But Last i’ve heard, Singapore is still a multiracial country and the basic mode of communication that we can have with each other is none other than english.
Ps. Only Stupid and Fat Australian tourists come to Singapore and eat in Maccers. The rest actually reads and watches our advertisement and bother to try the local food. Whats wrong with the woman? Complaining about Macdonalds? At least complain about Subway, that way we know, you’re not just a fat arsed SHEILA whingin about not getting her extra salt on fries.
Stupid woman sounds just like the singaporeans who go on overseas vacation and just eat chinese food.
haha
This guy certainly picked a very appropriate name.
Jumba = Jamban = toilet
Jumba Juice = Jamban Juice = watery shit
I bet with potatoes in his mouth he didn’t even know that the meaning of the word jamban in Malay. Haha, that’s called wallowing in your own shit.
Holy Shit ! Of all the names to use this shit guy uses “Jumba” (Jumban)! Has he got a lot of shitting to do everyday that he got to camp in the toilet. This must be the joke of the century at this forum !
It’s understandable when you are a yellow banana who talk with a mouthful of potatoes. Even a typical non-Malay knows that latrine word. Shame on him for having no roots here.
I was just wondering what other juices he has got besides Jumban juice. I am already salivating… maybe I should Q up and get that promotion to Rear-Admirer before Rear-Adm Lui comes along and join the Q.
Hey guys hold your horses. Let me kinda have a go at him. We yankees love their arses. These yellow bananas love our macs and fries, we love to yank them arses open. Chop suey anybody ?
Ok so sidestepping all this talk about academic institutions and going back to the actual topic.. I’ve read the earlier comments, and there are a few points which I’d like to add on to, as well as to offer a different perspective:
- Singapore is advertised as an English speaking country, so when tourists come here and have to face non-English speaking service staff (ie. Singapore’s frontline representatives/ambassadors), Singapore could be accused of false advertising. (Lawsuit waiting to happen, no?)
- Because of my previous point, businesses should know better than to employ non-English speaking employees (locals or foreigners), especially if they are in the tourism or service industry. It’s not a matter of letting the market decide, it’s about sticking to our principles of being true to our word and of equity for all.
- I included both locals and foreigners in my definition of non-English speaking employees, as whether we’d like to admit it or not, not all Singaporeans speak English (and I’m not even talking about “proper” English, just basic English in general). From my personal experience, I have come across Singaporean service staff who had either refused to, or could not, converse in English. Among those who could not, there are of course some who would go out of their way to still provide good service. The same cannot be said for the others – I’ve also experienced some instances where the service staff would completely ignore me, but be extremely nice and attentive to a Chinese customer. So it’s not only a problem with the high influx of non-English speaking foreign workers to Singapore, there is also the issue of a subset of Singaporeans who are extremely sino-centric (by choice or otherwise).
For example, just turn to any job ads in the Classifieds and you will find that 95% of the jobs require bilinguals (read: Mandarin-speaking). Even this website has a Chinese section. What about a Malay or Tamil section? They are our official languages too. (I wonder how many Singaporeans actually know that our national language is Malay?) Don’t discriminate; if you have one, have all.
If I sound like a sour grape, that’s because I’ve been increasingly disappointed with Singapore’s (perceived) multiculturalism. I am a third generation Singaporean who is not of Chinese descent, and I don’t speak Mandarin. And in all honesty, I am pretty sick and tired of feeling like a second class citizen in my own country.
Racism is still alive and well in Singapore, my friends. What’s worse is that it’s coming from the top. But people are too scared to vote for change because they’re afraid of being hunted down and blacklisted, and afraid of instability. I honestly believe that the current government is still in power not because the people want them there, it’s because there’s no comparable opposition. Which is hardly surprising since they get booted out as soon as they show any inkling of being successful. But for change to happen, we have to stand up for what we believe in, and be prepared to stand strong against all the odds. It’s the only way.
Multiculturalism is not just about the superficial stuff like knowing that Muslims celebrate Hari Raya (do you know there are 2 Hari Rayas?), and Hindus celebrate Deepavali. It goes much deeper than that. For example, do you know the reasons behind those celebrations? Or that not all Muslims are Malays, and not all Malays are Muslims; just like how not all Indians are Hindus, and not all Hindus are Indians?
Having a Racial Harmony Day once a year is not enough. It might be wishful thinking, but I hope and pray that I’ll still be alive to see the day when the people of Singapore are truly one and united, regardless of race, language, or religion.