Robox on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 9:08 am 

Re: “Besides the language policy, Lee had made a few notable mistakes during the course of his political career such as the “Stop at Two” policy in the 1970s which contributed partly to Singapore’s declining birth rate today.”

There is absolutely NO mention of another policy blunder, one that is not only topical but has acquired a certain urgency of late: the unbridled wage increases by the NWC, beginning I believe in the 1980s, that outpaced productivity. This is a policy that also led to round after round of price increases because of the rise in disposavble incomes. This is the SOLE reason for the Correction of Economic Mismanagement policy, otherwise believed to be the Foreign Workers policy in which foreigners are being flooded into Singapore to depress Sinagporean wages. Even then, the huge numbers of foreigners are actually contributing to yet more price increases, a problem that is NOT being corrected despite the gradual drop in incomes. (Increased numbers in the resident population leads to increased demand for goods and services, which itself results in price increases.)

(Note: The NWC itself was against the wage increases but had to submit to Lee Kuan Yew’s wishes on the matter.)

The PAP of course hopes that the blame for lowered incomes will fall on foreigners instead of the very people who created the problem due to their economic mismangement, but clearly it is not. (The high income policy was a direct consequence of Lee Kuan Yew’s Chinese supremacist policy, a policy that many Chinese Sinagporeans supported because it was good for their fragile egos.)

Finally, while we are able to point to the major policy errors by the ever-so-perfect Lee Kuan Yew, we should not be overlooking the many other minor – but important – policy disasters made by him and his incompetent but well remunerated government.

fair and square on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 9:36 am 

It’s only human to make mistakes.
But to admit the mistakes and correct them efficaciously is another thing.
one wonders when folks would admit to the recent folly of
FT policy in the midst of a global recession when one own sons and daughters are inconsiderately made redundant and cheerfully
replaced with foreigners by ‘cheaper is better’ bosses from both private and public employers.
ageing population is also no coincidence.
i hope our leaders tend towards more broad-mindedness as they themselves demand on us when they carelessly implement policies
like the one that recently caused many bread-winner locals to lose their relevance in the workforce and still imagine that we all could work beyond 62?!!!what contradictions…some self-serving scholars ought to be shot and allow themselves to be replaced by some smarter FTs from Philippines or PRC or better still,some talents form the Indian Institute of Management…i wonder what’s their ranking in the top MBA programmes?

itsthelaw on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 9:53 am 

Uhmm… can i claim money back for courses i take to improve my language skill now?

A. Francis on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 9:59 am 

Only one mistake in over 50 years? Please tell us what are the others.

btan on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 10:12 am 

Yes, LKY can just casually say he made a mistake. But now that some lives have been destroyed and many confidence of young children were shattered and their lives altered forever, what is LKY going to do about it?

His own grandson he can send to special school for education but others’ children cannot do so.

He really has a lot to answer for.

Mistakes After Mistakes on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 10:16 am 

He made so many mistakes not just education policy.

1. Family Planning Policy – Two Is Enough.
2. Graduate Mother Policy – Eugenics.
3. CPF Policies After Policies.
4. Housing Policies.
5. Ministers’ Obscene Pay Policy.
6. Detention Without Trials – ISA.
7. Destruction of Dialects and Chinese Culture.
8. Land Grabbing Policy – Taking away people’s land at minimal compensation.
9. Foreign Talents Influx Policy.
10. Stifling Political Leadership From Sprouting.
11. Control of Mass Media.
12. Monopolising political power.
13. Monopolising the Trade Unions.
14. Subpressing local SMEs from becoming MNCs.
15. Poor Investment Skill, Judgement and Vision resulting in losses in Temasek and GIC in terms of billions of dollars of taxpayers money.

Just to name a few.

Old Guy on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 10:22 am 

LKY is one brave old man..!

Singapore needs him !!

who dares to admit mistakes on a national scale !!

We must vote for PAP again !!

IT’s good and dare to admit mistakes !!

long live LKY !!

Singapore oldest hero !

irean sin on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 10:49 am 

wat the hell…now he thinks Singaporeans need to communicate with newcomers and re-integrate into singapore society??? They should be doing that not singaporean.

The old man should really start to re-integrate back with the real Singaporean society.

Yoyo on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 11:11 am 

i really don’t think the “stop at 2″ policy is the main reason why we are facing declining population. Most developed countries faced with this problem as well ranging from US to UK. As the society developed, it just normal that couples decide to have less children due to many reasons, financial, lack of freedom, lack of time, etc.

As for the foriegn workers, i do hate it when i see 1 foreigner for 1 singaporean i come across. (note that PR are foreigners as well and hence it’s NOT 1 to 2 or even less as i bet there;s some PRs that convert to citizen and NO they are not singaporeans even with their pink IC). However they do have a case when it comes to bringing down the cost of living in singapore so way or another

And no, LKY is NOT my hero and i will not defend him, but i prefer to see temasekreview to be more objectives than subjectives (bashing LKY has no purpose at all except for bringing more traffic in this blog)

citizenofSG on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 11:16 am 

Mr. LKY, admission of his mistake is not for you or my sake. It’s done for the big corporate sake. When Singapore corporation benefits, their salary can remain extremely very very high. It is the balance sheet that matter.

Now that the wind has blown China’s way, the Chinese language has suddenly become important, really important. The tools (citizen of Singapore) are blunted in a certain way, it needs resharpening in some way.

If he is sincere in bringing a more equitable wealth distribution where all Singaporean can benefit, it is then worth to go his way. Why make our children change and work hard and learn another language and grow the country when in the end what they get is the same but the elitist sons get all of the benefits.

Nonetheless having said is also like not saying, he will surely has his way.

The selective admission is never detrimental to him because he need not pay for his mistake. However the admission of doing wrong to a certain individual which mean he got to pay, that kind of admission he will never make.

So to me, the admission of mistake is as good as nothing has been said.

someone sad for singapore on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 11:28 am 

LKY likes to be China’s praising dog.

However, the way I see the future is, English is still going to be the language of the world for many, many years and even centuries to come.

Mandarin is NOT going to take over English as the world’s language in the next 50 years at least.

To be frank, Mandarin will NEVER take over English as the world’s language. Why?

1. Is it easier writing in chinese characters, or writing in alphabets? The answer is clear.

2. English is closely related to Latin and the other languages by characters. Mandarin is a language on its own and it is only closely related to Japanese and maybe Korean?

3. I frankly think China’s quality as a country and an economy as a whole WILL NOT MAKE IT as a major power in the world. Therefore I have no idea why people will want to brainwash us to learn Mandarin so much, especially LKY.
==========================
And no thanks, I will not integrate with any low-class china foreigners in my country who came over here just to work at 7-elevens for example. I will just pretend I do not speak Mandarin so that I don’t have to hear their yaks.

Sad on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 11:52 am 

Yoyo: i really don’t think the “stop at 2″ policy is the main reason why we are facing declining population. It just normal that couples decide to have less children due to many reasons, financial, lack of freedom, lack of time.

I do not agree with Yoyo about “stop at 2″ policy is not the main reason. The was no such policy implemented by those developed countries. People there have a choice, due to many reasons. If not for this policy and lack of support by the government who wouldn’t want more babies. In Canada, schooling is free, with allowances.

Peter Su on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 12:19 pm 

Now, at 86yo he is strating to tell Singaporeans the truth.

JUST4FUN on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 12:20 pm 

ONE MAN who have done wrongly that costs singaporean to suffer for his mistakes. WHY and what the use of admitting and not step down and let the young singaporean to run the country. TO late for him, as singaporean almost taken over by the foreigners and getting to know only singaporean that going to leave this tiny island.
A tiger is crying over his tears, when singaporean are completely erase from this tiny island, and he once again he doing is just another excuse. WHAT singaporean have being cheated by such a man, and let the truth be see by the future.

Political SalesMaN on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 12:21 pm 

Old Guy, Lan Du Ka, U yourself is LKY your Policy
“STOP AT Two”has murder & slaughter 1/2 million of “Innocent & Defencless”Foetus this is what has causes Singaporean to face critical problem in todays economics.Not only in this mistakes U has done, education streaming policy causes many sorry case in the IMH.other mistake,arrest people without trial.monopolise all the common people business. U must pay for the crime U did! If U can’t pay at this generation,your next generation have to foot this “Bill”. Your FamiLEE name going to smear in Singapore History for a Thousand Years.

suk hoi on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 12:27 pm 

// Mistakes after mistakes.
Add 3 more: 1) Long Hair to be Served Last.
2) Indiscrimately accepting migrants into Singapore.
3) 24 months NS should be shortened to 18 months.

Political SalesMaN on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 12:40 pm 

Yoyo U’re just another idiot, U ‘re luck to have a chance to come to this world.Y can’t U give other live a chance to this world.luckily your parent did not aborted U.If yes! Your spirit will be fly in the universal.No chance of recarnation.

Flying Ace on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 1:17 pm 

LKY: “education policy was wrong…”.

I don’t agree that the policy in and of itself was wrong.

I do think that one being able to converse in more than one language is certainly very helpful (and interesting). I remember my granny being able to converse in various languages / dialects – mandarin, cantonese, hokkien, malay, tamil, what not – albeit never going through any ‘formal’ education. I for one am only comfortable conversing in English! But I do want to brush up on other languages (not because I NEED to but just out of interest).

Language is just a means of communication – I don’t see why people like LKY-bashing so much. I think the policy was not wrong, but the way the policy was executed (i.e. a one size fits all approach, institutionalising it through ting-xie’s and mo-xie’s etc – for me I remember those being a b*tch and I absolutely dreaded going for mandarin classes). What COULD have helped was to make learning the language(s) more engaging and interesting – alternate ways of teaching perphaps.

So I believe the government is now taking a good step towards the future.

citizen on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 1:28 pm 

#

Mistakes After Mistakes on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 10:16 am

Really so many mistakes?

VOTEWISE on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 2:12 pm 

And,the greatest mistake of all is to put not fully committed
unless motivated by high salaries type of people in gahmen!!!!
where is the HONOUR we suppose to see in “honourable” men?
i think the “school of hard knocks” kind did a better job…
and they were that much cheaper but anytime better and most of all,HONOURABLE!!!…Just to name a few,goh keng swee,hon sui sen,rajaratnam,toh chin chye and should i also include,the late
HONOURABLE jb Jeyaratnam!!!
the fallacy of paying ‘peanuts,get monkies’ and when you pay top money now,what do we get?…lose our jobs and our dignity!
i guess i better go stay overseas and then later come back as a FT!

smallyfly on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 2:28 pm 

where are the accountabilities & responsibilities in singapore political system? since he made so many mistakes during his closes to **five decades** long political career, at the age of 86, why is he still in the political office of his son controlled pm office and at the same time getting millions of dollars of annual remunerations? where is the justice? may be singapore’s tax-payers are so rich that **they** can afford to pay him to commit more mistakes?

Yoyo on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 3:10 pm 

Sad: If not for this policy and lack of support by the government who wouldn’t want more babies

I seriously think a LOT of people wouldn’t want to have more babies even if the government is giving them money. Most of my friends who can well afford to take care of 3-4 children wouldn’t even wanted to have one as caring for children required more than just money, it needs time, the love for your kids, etc which most of them realised that they just cannot proviide them with that.
As for schooling allowances in Canada or countries in europe, it does come with downside to these benefits; the high income tax on the working class to make all these benefits possible. So i would say is one model vs another. u get things “free” by paying more on tax or u save more yourself and make it possible or ask the rich man to pay more tax while the poor enjoy ( do note that as a rich man he is, most likely he will migrate to a country with lower tax and i’m sure he can do a job or a business there)

Political SalesMaN: U’re just another idiot …
I’m sorry, but i’m not a strong believer of any religious or even the existance of god so i dun think there’s any form of recarnation to begin with. I won’t engage in the endless argument of believer vs non-believer, you have your religious and i have “mine non-believer thinking” and pls do not use abuse in this discussion.

Anonymous on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 3:25 pm 

Anyone contesting in Tanjong Pagar GRC?

Sadden on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 3:39 pm 

Why are we kicking up a fuss here regarding this old man’s comment?
For almost ‘five decades’we, the citizens of Singapore, have been pulled by the nose by just one MAN! Think about it, he has been dictating and controlling all of our lives–from the cradle to the grave!
1.Stop at two policy–cradle
2.languages/streaming etc.–education
3.Slog till you’re old–work
4.Old age home in J.B.– waiting to die–grave
Didn’t you all heard of the quote “……….never mind what the people think”
This says it all!!

fair and square on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 3:51 pm 

@Anonymous
how about we put your name up?
TR,may be you can do a poll,huh?
any objection from guys here???

And Justice For All on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 3:54 pm 

Anonymous

The last person who contested in elections in Tanjong Pagar (before the GRC was invented) was sent to made a bankrupt and locked up in Woodbridge (now Institute of Mental Health). This is not a joke. It really happened.

for singapore on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 4:04 pm 

@Votewise
you’re right…
when the old guards got paid peanuts,they worked for us like donkeys.Now,the new guards and their mentors get paid top
money,they merely “chuchok and tekan us till we mati!”
alamak!don’t even have money for son’s school money,don’t talk about”minum kopi”!better vote in more people the likes of
CST and LTK!

Seen it all on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 4:37 pm 

It would be best for the ole man to graciously step down and enjoy his few years of retirement like Dr Mahathir. IUf he would o continue he would make more mistakes for the country and our children and grandchildren will carry the consequences.
He also doesn’t need the money. After all he could take up positions as an advisor to the other countries who admire him and make more money than he is now.

Sadden on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 4:46 pm 

@Yoyo.
From your post, I guess you were not borned when the ’stop at two’ policy was implemented. thus you have no idea how that generation of citizens have gone through.You are right to say that, now, even with cash incentives, young couples may not take the bait of producing more babies.The reasons are quite obvious and have been discussed in the MSM and other medias.
Do you know that we are among the lowest if not the lowest in the ranking of the world reproductive index?Don’t come and tell me that this has nothing to do with the ’stop at two’ policy!You memtioned that other countries are also facing the same problem.Agree, but please remember , we are NOT other countries, we are First World,First Tier country, whose ministers are all paid $millions! Don’t you expect those highest paid ministers to outperform the likes of other countries!!

blue on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 4:55 pm 

LKY admits his insistence on bilingual policy was “wrong”. I think his intentions was right to have singaporeans able to handle Chinese language as well. Just that not everyone can be good at learning two languages and be proficient as he would like to believed.
I was from the baby boom years of fifties and like hell i hated chinese languages. So I am the so call “chia kang tang” (potato) meaning english speaking yuppies with long hair, everyday ducking away from school discipline master whenever he appears and “pontang” chinese lessons everyday. Sure, me and my yuppies classmates scored great F9 for chinese and shed no tears at all. I went to Shanghai in 87 when China slowly opened up for foreign investment.I saw the old Shanghai city, old shanghai bund, stay n work in shanghai for sometime and realised that how difficult and disadvantage I was becos I couldn’t read and write Chinese. I could only converse with the mainland chinese in simple daily conversation but read, write, I was totally lost. With hindsight, I blamed and f… myself for not even trying to learn the language during school days. I try to start again, guess it was really tough cos our minds and ways are set, plus other work, life pressures added. Nevertheless it’s better than not taking the first step again though progress is really slow.

Rainnix on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 5:08 pm 

Old Harry scrambling to kiss China’s “S”. It is his mistake to think that China is forever a communist country and not grown into a superpower. Certainly not for a man who claimed he has “foresight”. So what happens if Malaysia is the next superpower? All of us had to learn Malay?

There are 2 major mistakes he made with the education policy (genocide of Singaporeans learning Chinese).

1. To kill off Chinese dialect in Singapore. Now Mediacorp are showing Japanese and Korean dramas with dual sound, why can’t they show Hong Kong and Taiwan dramas with dual sound?

2. To make Mandarin, Malay, Tamil as the second language. It is essential for the country to have a common language, but the diminishing of the importance of the “second” language is the cause of death of Chinese, Malays, Indians to forgo their native language.

If he realized what his policies had caused to a lot of talented Chinese-educated people in Singapore; most Chinese speaking Singaporeans are at the lower hierarchy of the society.

Franco Xiao on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 5:13 pm 

i wonder what other “mistakes” he made in the past … detaining the communists and his best friend Lim Chin Siong with Operation Coldstore? detaining catholic social activists, professionals and students with Operation Spectrum? demolishing JBJ?

LKY AND HIS CRONIES CANNOT BE TRUSTED, VOTE THEM OUT, TIME FOR CHANGE, VOTE OPPOSITION

cy on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 5:14 pm 

LKY only admits to a tactical mistake, but he did not adnit to a strategic mistake ie. destroying chinese language status in his early years. we are reaping the consequences of his strategic mistake.

also, though some learnt a language because it is interesting as LKY says, most learn a language because of their family background, because of economic interests, because of other reasons like courting,religion preaching, etc.

in LKY case, he learnt chinese because of political expediency, certainly not out of interest.

I am afraid that by correcting his tactical mistake, he makes a blunder of lowering the standards of chinese teaching.

In a democracy, a mistake made will be corrected, but in a pseudo democracy a mistake made (if not sweep under the carpet) will be corrected by another mistake.

Political SalesMaN on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 5:20 pm 

Yoyo: Made this clear to yourself,it not a matter of religion. human are human, not animals.
Human & Animal also give birth. It should not be obstruct or destruct by any of being, to form a new generation, Life go on in this world.Those Devil implement a policy “STOP AT TWO” they have poor foresight.Murder & Slaughter Our Lost generation, maybe one of them are your lost brother or sister.I’m sure U don’t have that. Till now they themself dare not admit their mistake.This is a “Killing Field”

Anonymous on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 5:30 pm 

A. Francis on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 9:59 am

Oh, a national day celebration televised lecture to our ever absorbing citizenry on economics with graphs and a myriads of indicators – and extolled with great confidence and exclamation that our SHIPBUILDING AND SHIPREPAIR IS SUNSET INDUSTRY in the early 1980s.

Well we all know that the South Koreans is mushrooming their economy with this sector as one of its outstanding GLOBALLY DOMINANT success pillars and laughing at us as totally blind of foresights and opportunities.

What a world of difference.

The thinking Ah Beng on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 6:00 pm 

The Chinese language actually acquired an inferiority complex in the 80s, even up till the late 90s. I remembered when I was in Uni, a classmate (a yellow skin one at that) used the very derogatory insult on the Chinese language by saying “ching chong ching chong ching ching chong” – the kind of bigoted racial slur that westerners will use on Chinese people. Imagine a Chinese doing that, and you can imagine how low the status of the Chinese language and culture sank the minds of the upper-middle class.

Truth be told, there was really no economic value in learning and mastering the language then. Speaking English well, and been westernised, is cool and superior, and really help made you money when you climb the corporate ladder. The Chinese language was considered so cheena, so ulu and so heartlanded. No wonder when the world changes, you find Singapore the only country in Asia predominated by yellow skins yet having difficulty dealing with it.

In Singapore, our sole measure of things is monetary and economic. Right now, it is profitable to be Cheena again. Who knows, maybe fifteen years down the road, the Malay language may start to be useful, and becoming Mat-rock will be cool, perhaps even for the elites!

Brian Barker on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 6:07 pm 

I believe that we need an international language, but a lingua franca for the World should be for everyone and not just for an educational or political elite. This is the position for English at the moment. So which language should it be?

The British learn French, the Australians study Japanese and the Americans prefer Spanish.

Yet this leaves Mandarin Chinese out of the equation.

Why not teach a common international language, in all schools and in all nations, worldwide ? As a native English speaker, my vote is for Esperanto

Your readers may be interested in http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=_YHALnLV9XU Professor Piron was a translator with the United Nations in Geneva.

A glimpse of Esperanto can be seen at http://www.lernu.net

Yoyo on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 6:13 pm 

Sadden: You are right that i have no knowledge of the implementation of the “stop at 2″ policy and if you are willing to share, i love to hear it (what i read is that they URGE people to sterilisation and less assistance for those with 3-4 children). As for first world, first tier etc.., i seriously dun think we are that “first-tier” and i seriously feel that our ministers are overpaid as well. But still i dun think the stop at 2 policy is the main reason why we have low birth-rate and i dun think the government has any means of solving the problem at all except for jailing any couples along the street that have no babies.

As for Political SalesMaN:
As i said, i dun believe in religious and hence i see human as a evolution of animals and hence we ARE animals, just a different bred, but i dun think that your point so let’s just get over with this. As for the right of giving birth, i do agree that all human being should be given the right to give/ not to give birth if they wanted to. (I’m a serious believer of human right)

But of course, of all i love to hear from people regards to how things work back in the 60s. Pls share,

fair and square on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 6:49 pm 

there is no graver mistake in education then teaching self-centredness!(aka all-out-meritocracy).
that’s the problem with our system.
kindness do need a specific language…it can be in any
language,it is even understood by those who do not speak
nor hear.
there are so many bi-lingual scholars,highly proficeint in chinese but,hey,look at what they have done to us and for us?
…they know better how to “lined their own pockets” like some
shrewd CHEENA(PRC:MILK POWDER etc) businessmen do!!!

Political SalesMaN on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 7:32 pm 

Yoyo : At that time LKY he confese that the cake is too small to accomodate the population. No! they have the motive to destroy the last lost “Generation”. Till today end-meet U can see their motive to rule for another Fifty years.So kill our own people and influx new citizen, so can win the next Election again. Do U think at this time the cake is big enough!
for the Market can accomodate 600 million Old & New citizen.
Our own origin has no food. Maybe U’re a lucky one not effected
This is not a matter of religion. This is a matter of Motive & Killing.

BRAVO Dear "cy on Wed, 18th Nov 2009 5:14 pm " on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 12:17 am 

My comments right after yours. I once again admire your learned writing as you wrote… and hit that oldand long ago rusty nail right one it’s head… that…

“LKY only admits to a tactical mistake, but he did not adnit to a strategic mistake ie. destroying chinese language status in his early years. we are reaping the consequences of his strategic mistake…

In LKY case, he learnt chinese because of political expediency, certainly not out of interest.

I am afraid that by correcting his tactical mistake, he makes a blunder of lowering the standards of chinese teaching.

In a democracy, a mistake made will be corrected, but in a pseudo democracy a mistake made (if not sweep under the carpet) will be corrected by another mistake.”…

All these years…

1. Anyone seen additional Chinese Charactor signs even in government offices and their institutions all these years?

2. Road signs in Chinese too?

3. Or at least Hanyu Pinyin one anywhere?

4. So… Is THIS old guy thorough or just autocratic? He ain’t a language specialist right! Though his intentions “may be good” his authoritarian character made even his “Amateur” Top-Down suggestions become “Expert” instructions doesn’t it!

5. He said that the education ministry officials were not helpful to him.

6. And now he also said he has told them to “cut out writing and allowed Students to using hany pinyin on their computers”

7. Just like that again… Again “INSTRUCTING AUTHORITATIVELY”… NEVER in consutlation with those education officials… Does he?

8. He IS always the “EXPERT” for EVERYTHING and so making all of them BIGGY MISTAKES!

9. Will this BE yet another BIGGYest ONE he WON’T EVER BE ABLE TO EVER “correct” at his age now!

10. He has not learn ever to take a back seat to listen out to other for reflection has he! THAT… IS HIS VERY FAILURE!!! … and IT IS THE KEY TO ALL HIS PAST MISTAKES… DIRECTING, AND ORCHESTRATING AS IF HE IS THE TRAINED AND EXERIENCED “Kongfu” Master of everything by making his round as Minister in Multi-Facet??? But never CONDUCTING till the whole Symphony is completely played by the orchestra!!!.. What a Maestro Conductor!!!…

And to cy who I’ve come to respect very much… I’ll let you all ina alittle secret… But please don’t get me wrong…

Months back I promised my friend who introduced me to the then Wayang Party… that I will and would like to bring up the level in quality of comments in WP now name TR. So… I scolded… nudged… teased… even cajouled… and lambasted and challenge so that the pappies won’t laugh at us… and last but not the least…

I also encouraged guys like cy to common online… to shared and contribute their professionalism…. I think we have arrived more or less. Bravo to all the others who I’ve not named and please KEEP IT UP!!! Most of all A BIG THANK YOU!!!

kingkong on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 1:23 am 

the old man has already gotten his just desserts. he failed to become the prime minister of malaysia in 1960. and all these years since, we have suffered under this huge frustration!

citizenofSG on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 2:19 am 

@yoyo – shameful very shameful. U don’t know Mr. Lee Kuan Yew and who he is when he was at his prime.
Pitiful Pitiful, you have not seen the master of all master at work.
In the days when people in Singapore all speaks a different dialects, like god he says – Thou shall not speak dialect. TV, radio, schools and everyone came to attention and change in the wink of an eye. LOL. There we go the speak mandarin campaign. Most folks this days don’t know dialects . Kakaka.
When you give birth to your third child, you don’t whether he can go to school. LOL. Do you think you want to have your third child?
Come on YOYO, don’t be such a spoil kid and listen to your elders, things you never find in school. LOL

fpc on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 3:25 am 

as if this remark from LKY is really an apology…
He doesn’t care about anyone.

John John on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 8:13 am 

MM – Minister Mentor

Whats the job spec for a MM ? One would have thought it is to mentor the minister in the cabinet.

But does this not look like doing their job outright?

Looks like he is the world’s longest serving PM since 1963 !

Sad on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 8:39 am 

Yoyo: When “stop at two” was introduced, this are some of the related results. Civil servants received no paid maternity leave for third and subsequent children; maternity hospitals charged progressively higher fees for each additional birth; and income tax deductions for all but the first two children were eliminated. You are clearly wrong to argue on the policy. As to why your friends do not want children now is totally different from then.

Kan_Cheong spider on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 10:08 am 

Isn’t Goh Keng Sweet the Min for Education back then?

.

nick on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 11:43 am 

I think his time has passed a long time ago.

I have no objection if he retires and does whatever he wants in the background, but to seem so incredibly power hungry and refusing to step down (bypassing the acting prime minister – his son – countless times), creating nonsensical posts, is so far fetched, it makes me wonder what on Earth is going on with this country.

My impression is that most people in Singapore are either too scared to speak up, or couldn’t care less (too happy with their lives I suppose) to point out how silly this is becoming.

I’ve seen countless interviews (recent ones) with Mr. Lky in it, but was never able understand most of the points he tried to make.
When he spoke in extended dialogues, more often than not, it was either a compilation of small talk or ambiguous stories about a distant past.

For example, an interviewer may ask him a very straightforward question, but the answer, I felt did nothing to enlighten me or inform me.

Yoyo on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 11:44 am 

@citizenofSG: Seriously read my posting with attent and u will understand WHAT i have been saying… that is to EXPLAIN so that i can UNDERSTAND. citizenofSG, i seriously think u are just another old man down the street that thinks that old = wisdom or just another spoil kids or another spoil old man that go around ask kids to listen to u. Pls earn your respect and DUN demand for it…

@Sad: Thanks for the time to explain to me, really appreciate it. I read about the ‘Stop at 2′ policy and it seems very similar so i guess i’m not mis-informed. As i have been following this discussion, there’s user who used “killing” and “murdering” which means more like a force-abortion or force-sterization etc.. i would thought that i’m lack of some hear-say from people in the 60s
I do agree that policy discourage, or “prevented” people from bearing more than 2 children at that time which indeed leads to less children in the 80s and in turn lead to even lesser children in the 90s til now. But it is not correct to say ’stop at 2′ policy is the reason for declining population though it is one of the reason why we have lesser population.

Sad: “You are clearly wrong to argue on the policy. As to why your friends do not want children now is totally different from then.” Can i say that u do agree that the declining population is not mainly due ‘Stop at 2′ but ‘Stop at 2′ is the cause of declining population in the 60s?

WHYliveinTHEPAST? on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 12:19 pm 

Why do we want to bring up the past?

Let the poor man DIE in peace.. look at him, he will die in the next few months, then what? You have no one to accuse anymore.

Everyone who had suffered under his hand – well we learn our lesson don;t we? Either you change your expectations, or you join in and tow the line. We don;t have an alternative govt, no credible opposition, no proper counter strategy, so please, all this internet forums are useless… What we need are the joining of all opposition united, and “flawless” as the PAP, then go up there and get at least TWO GRC, then things will move. but there MUST be credible ppl.

otherwise, don;t waste Singaporean’s time. Once we have a period of chaos, there’ll be a lot of time and economic opportunity costs.

Bobby on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 12:25 pm 

To admit a mistake is one thing…to apologise to the people who have been victimised, marginalised because of his deciaion is what is needed.

I have never herd MM to apoligise before….the many “mistakes” he made has caused untoled misery to millions of singaporeans…some them are: Stop at Two; and punish those who refuse to stop at two”

Kill Dialects policy….wiping out a whole generation of people ..thereby causing a total disconnect with the childrens’ children….and causing a deterioration of bonds between the genrations and the killing off of the nuances of the various cultures….

Practice of Eugenics…..the Graduates must marry graduates,,,,poor and illiterate must not have more than two children…

Wrongful imprisonment of his Political Opponents…

It is time MM recant and ask for the forgiveness from the people he wronged. I hope He does so before he meets the Maker.

And Justice For All on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 12:34 pm 

John John

You are absolutely right in bringing up the subject of what does the office of MM entail?

Firstly, if in the order of protocol, the position of MM falls behind the PM and DPM and then the SM, then why is it he didn’t take a pay cut since he no longer performs and take the responsibility of PM ? Why is he still getting $3m a year in salary. which is the same with PM and SM ? I mean if you are no longer the CEO but just another executive director on the board why is your director’s remuneration still the same as when you were the CEO ? Baffling isn’t it ? Money still motivates him at this age and time.

Secondly, you are right on inyour assertion that he is still the PM by any other name. If you name your dog Lassie he is still a dog.

stupidbilingualism on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 1:16 pm 

SO what if someone admits….damage has been done to many generations of force fed bilingualism, including mine. the people in this little piece of outcrop never admits its mistakes…very face saving and the MO is usually to lie low for a while and then implement a policy to improve things and say that they take the credit in making your lives better, when in actual fact, it was just a simple case of correcting their blunders. Just look at the ST headlines stating that chinese has to be learnt in a different way…so angkat balls..

Better to educate my children overseas and be overseas citizens…so no wasting of time defending…defending what…a little outcrop, piece of nose shit??? kekeke

have so many friends whose 2nd language is not chinese and yet have been successful doing business in China and learning chinese along the way, not learning chinese at such tender ages when your childhood is meant to be enjoyed….so long farewell….good luck or rather hard luck to the future generations who will still have to struggle with bilingualism

citizenofSG on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 2:02 pm 

@yoyo, There’s no need to throw your tantrum, I will buy you a lollipop to pester you so don’t cry.

Old, I am not that old but just old enough to know. My laughter has hurt your ego and I shall not laugh.

Nonetheless in spite of the policy, the Malay was producing but not so much for the other race.

The tendency and trend of the more affluence and better educated is quite evident among the citizens of Singapore. The government’s “stop at two” policy helps to accelerate the process. The crux of the matter is that the then government could not preempt the future of Singapore. The policy has worked against us eventually.

Prior to that most families had five to six children being the norm. The tradition and believe of the time was that the more children you have the better is your well being. However to bring up a family of that size was quite a challenge and the government then was too worried that they were unable to create jobs to sustain such population growth. A country wide campaign was launched. It was extremely successful. So the country stopped at two.

Shameful refers to LKY who when was then at his prime did not realize that the stop at two policy created by him could become a disaster years and now we got make up for it.

Pitiful refers to a generation who miss to witness how the master of all master operates and work in a god like manner. He is good really damn bloody good. I hate and respect him at the same time.

You have to ask the older folks what was life like when Lee Kuan Yew was our prime minister. Get a comparison of him and the two other prime minister. Then probably you can understand the thoughts and feelings of the people then and now.

JJ on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 2:14 pm 

There seems to be a lot of emotional LKY bashing here rather than rational and objective debate, and it seems to be creeping into the articles as well. I rather enjoy reading articles from this website, but am seeing slanted points of view creeping into the news articles which should idealy be in the opinion section. This rather degrades the credibility of the reporting here. Please keep the news as pure news, with only the opinions of cited quotes of others in there, not of the author. For example, the last three paragraphs of this article are completely unnecessary for the reporting of this item and should clearly belong as commentary. I hope to see readership here grow, but please keep the journalism up to standard.

Sadden on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 4:36 pm 

Yoyo
Still not convinced that the ’stop at 2′is the cause of the sad state of the birth rate now?
Let me paint you a scenario;
Suppose we have no ’stop at 2′in the 70s,and most of the citizens then gave birth to 4 or 5 babies,by now in the 21st century, the babies would have been in their 30s.They inturn,got married and produce 4 to 5 babies-imagine the increase in the population! the numbers keep double up!
Now back to today,we are desperately ‘lalong’ our citizenship
in order to fill up the lost numbers!If and only if our old man
(he was a very young man then)had the foresight,we would not have been in this dire situation now!
The reproduction and procreation process is God’s most sacred
gift to mankind.We should not temper with it.Once tempered, the whole process go haywired,and no amount of king’s horses
and king’s men can put Humpty Dumpty together again!
Back to the First Tier and First World termology.The so called
Elite ministers proudly call themselves thus in order to justify their $million salary.You judge for yourself whether the results of all the policies justify their pay!!

radar on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 6:31 pm 

Those who are bilingual, be grateful. Those who are not, how many skip classes or didn’t put in the effort to learn?
Don’t just blame the teachers – MM and poor students. Some of you may recall that monolinguals were the lowest of the strata for streaming.

Brendan on Thu, 19th Nov 2009 9:11 pm 

“Another controversial policy was the “graduate mother scheme” to encourage graduate women to bear more children. A strong proponent of eugenics, Lee thought (and still think) that offsprings of graduate women will be smarter and of “better stock”.

The scheme was quietly dropped in the aftermath of the 1984 elections which saw the PAP lost a significant percentage of the votes cast.”

If there is anything that will cost the Pappies votes in the next elections, the CASINO will be it. Opening the casinos will be a big mistake and then they will have to halt it. BUT its too late!! Taxpayer’s money will have already been spent!

Yoyo on Fri, 20th Nov 2009 10:38 am 

Sadden: Let’s assume that there isn’t the ‘Stop at 2′ policy and each families decides to have 4 children in the 60s which in turn leads to population grown in the 21st centtury, and yes i get your point in term of the snow-balling of our population. Although we will have sufficient population by now, but still, we hve faced with declining population as a high % of modern couples will not want to have children (or less children). So this argument of declining population will be delayed but exist in the future as with all of the developed countries. If u were to visit places in western europe, u will realise that there’s a lot of indian and chinese. Reason behind it’s due to a aging population and there’s a need of sufficient population to support the social welfare. And even japan (with ’similar’ asian culture) is facing with extreme difficulties in tackiling aging population. Although i do hate the flooding of foriegn workers, but i do admit that there’s need of them (BUT NOT SO MUCH of them)

As for over-paid ministers, i do agree that our ministers are over-paid

graduate mother scheme wise, it is REALLY retarded… Most of the time, local graduates are not too smart(although i’m a graduate as well). Most local graduates spend too much time in academic and render themselves useless in the competitive commerical world where result is all that matters. In fact the more foreigners that i worked with, the more i realise that the over-dependency of the paper-cert, the less intelligent one can be. But not to say that there’s a lot of graduates that go to school for knowledge and even with poor grade, they are sucessful in the work.

LHL on Sat, 21st Nov 2009 5:31 pm 

MM has created the privilege English speaking class in the past where those proficiency in English were entitled to higher education and high paying job. The end result is of course the low standard of Chinese language. Many students in the past with good grades in Math and Science but failed in English language from depriving university education. The excuse by the government is that English is the working language in Singapore and thus it is important to acquire certain standard of English. But today, we can see engineers, IT specialists, etc from third world countries, who cannot speak proper English, working in Singapore. MM has made many mistakes in education !!!