John Potus on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 12:13 pm 

http://www.todayonline.com/Singapore/EDC091103-0000041/?Arrears-drop%2c-despite-recession-

However, Ngee Ann Polytechnic real estate lecturer Nicholas Mak said: “Arrears usually increase in a recession, but the HDB resale market was buoyant and these households could have benefited from this by selling their flat to pay off their debt and then moving in with relatives or to a smaller flat.”
===============================================================

It’s official. The number of homeless Singaporeans has increased. Well done to the MIW. Foreigners probably now owned more HDB flats than Singaporeans.

Old Guy on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 12:14 pm 

every time also say make losses !!

that means what ??

Anonymous on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 12:34 pm 

How much they revalued their land costs in this manufactured real estate bubble?

It can be anything to write of billions of deficit. Or is it NOT?

Guys... ISN"T IT ANOTHER of thier HOCUS POCUS!!!... on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 1:14 pm 

To take blame for MBT in his recent HEFTY INCREASES in NEW HDB flat Prices as was highlighted here in TR???… 293,000+ for a 4-Rm flat in Ponggol…

You know… It’s like Tongue-In-Cheek kind of a thing you see.. as good as like…

“You see sinKaPORReans… INSPITE OF our ‘hefty” Price Increases… HDB still MADE a 2 BILLION LOSS YOU KNOW”!!!…

And so MBT’s throst must have stopped choking after this from reading to much of TR and the like blogs online!!!…

As a VERY “CIVIL Servant” of the Administration HAS taken the rap for him… OH REALLY???

x12831 on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 1:29 pm 

“More often, statistics are used in a selective, distorted or exaggerated way to help prove a particular point.” And very often, the govt will publish numbers as ‘evidence’ to prove its point. Do you think the executives in HDB and the minister responsible will still be in their jobs? Doubtful about the reported ‘losses’. Paper losses.

abc on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 1:59 pm 

If you can believe that, I woud like to sell you some ocean front property in Arizona too.

Alternatively, I have some very good structured products to sell too. Starts with the letter ‘L’ like LEE-MEN minibonds.

LKYblowsgoats on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 2:13 pm 

Can you say “SMOKESCREEN”?

My GF and I couldnt help shouting “LIES LIES LIES” at the tv last night as we heard the report on the news!!

Its come to the point that we just dont believe anything these tyrants and their cronies say anymore! We WILL vote opposition in the next GE!

cat on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 2:23 pm 

Make a loss, 3 ways of looking at it:

1. You cannot always win – if you think the losses are real – when you have a monopoly.

2. HDB is very inefficient. They sold more flats than the past and ended up with more losses. That means their cost overhead is very high. MBT should be held responsible.

3. If SLA profit + HDB loss > 0 then there is no loss. It is a made believe.

In any case, HDB is at fault.

cy on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 2:26 pm 

if a monopoly can lose money, i don’t know who can make money?

BuiTaHan on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 2:29 pm 

It is just a number played by different government department to create a false impression that the HDB flats are subsidized. Only idiots will believe!!!

citizenofSG on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 2:54 pm 

I don’t trust their accounting method. Who knows what expensive salt and pepper is being added in.

sturmtruppen on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 2:54 pm 

Sounds like the book titled animal farm and this report thingy was in chapter 10 of the book…

The pigs in the animal farm will provide statistics and reports to the rest of their fellow animals to show how well the farm is doing…the best part is they destroy these stats/reports [no transparency]…talk about eerie…

Bloody scary…George Orwell has forseen a “singapore” just like the book he wrote titled as animal farm.

Talk about life following a paradoy or a story book.

Lessons to be learn, re-learnt and re-learnt again.

ErniesUrn on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 4:22 pm 

I don’t buy any of HDB’s comments and neither should any housing hunting couples.

HDB is a public housing, whether or not it makes profits or loss doesn’t equate to you buy HDB flat at ‘market value’.

It’s the entire philosophy of HDB that has gone wayward. They are behaving like a private corporation. Profit and loss is all they care now.

csl on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 4:40 pm 

Let’s examine this

People think HDB is built on free land SLA sell to HDB @ $0.

HDB however factors land cost into their books. This to me is not just about how we or they perceive the land sale. Rather when SLA demarcate a plot of land for buiding of HDB flats, the SLA will not be able to sell the land for use as a private development to private developers. Since the government is going to suffer in the financial sense due to the plot of land being used as public housing then it would be natural to the HDB to factor that in.

As for whether HDB is turning in a profit or not this question I believe answers itself. The HDB’s main mission will be a loss making one. I would think that HDB will be making a loss as taxpayer monies will be used to finance the grants and subsidization of land cost (which cannot be sold to private developer for 99 years). In fact to me, the loss should be even greater as HDB should put in more monies from the taxpayer into making HDB flats cheaper. Telling the taxpayers that they made a loss is practically a no brainer, if they were to announce that they made a profit then there should be a furor.

btan on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 4:52 pm 

If HDB is making a loss, why are the entire management team not sacked?

anyhowlah on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 5:08 pm 

Ya right, stop bs-ing and show us the P&L? We can analyse ourselves.

Muppet on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 5:20 pm 

I think they meant $2 billion profit and not deficit. If they don’t say deficit, how to get sympathy votes ?? If they report profit, then many people will throw rotten eggs at them.

Anonymous on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 5:28 pm 

No need to ask any Singaporean or FT Certified Pactising Accountant or Chartered Accountant, give me any entity, I will write you a profit and loss account of nearly numbers and it will still certified true and fair view by auditor – bounded only by my ability to construct whatever fancy “creative accounting” I could master.

That explains why Citibank, Enron, Royal Bank of Scotland etc etc …all report fantastic profits and suddenly found themselves staring at capital depletion and/or near bankruptcy.

Accuntants cook up their books better than the best chef cooks up the most delicious Zichar in our kopitiam outlets.

So it is POLITICALLY CORRECT in utmost to report a bigger and astronomical loss when election is waiting.

Don’t get fooled again. I don’t believe any of these craps.

rc on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 5:35 pm 

MOE makes HUGE losses. so by btan’s logic, the entire management team in MOE is to be sacked too.

certainly not. providing affordable and good quality public education is certainly going to be a loss making venture. similarly, providing (relatively) affordable and (quite) good quality public housing will be a loss making venture. in fact, if we want to have cheaper housing, then all the more HDB would lose. who finances this loss? taxpayers. are we sure that taxpayers would want to shoulder this burden?

KAM on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 5:53 pm 

Look at their bonus….look at their bonuses.
If loss then no bonus, even pay cut, right?

Wrong.

deoxin on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 5:58 pm 

@LKYblowsgoats
u’ll vote opposition in the next GE bcoz u can’t get flat?? hehe, if opposition win then ..congratulations, u get ur flat but u put ur CPF in jeopardy. heheheh.. kidding. but i just wanna suggest that gahmen not only taking care of HDB, it’s whole lot issues from defence to finance, from trade to education. think about it.

@btan
hdb making loss but management stays bcoz hdb is not meant to make profit (at least, that’s the idea).

for singapore on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 6:22 pm 

@deoxin
tell me,if gahmen taking care of us,how come so many people out of job?
you mean they keep more cpf for you so you can’t use or invest freely except when you are old and need to pay inflated
medicals?..so as to allow them to pay more to attract FTs doctors?
yu mean ROAD ocngestion at ecp or cte can only be be resolved by pumpimg up the erp?
you mean GRCs can only help to ensure gahmen have right talents to literally “run” down our lives?
there are so many things they need to take care for us?
perhaps you wanna ask them for more ways to screw up our lives?

sicktothebones on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 6:56 pm 

I believe pigs can fly and dogs can sing. I don’t think we can be fooled again and again – but sigh… many can be fooled and brainwashed very easily or bought over with a bit of poisoned candy.

rc on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 7:08 pm 

is a lot of people out of job? according to figures released, unemployment rate still quite low despite the financial crisis, etc.

true la, there are still people who do not have jobs and people who have jobs that don’t pay a lot and therefore might be struggling to make ends meet… and of course the government can do more for this group of people.

cat on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 7:30 pm 

//deoxin

as if the govt is doing something to help you?

if you vote in 40 opposition, I tell you, every one will get goodies.

PAP will work super hard which they should have done earlier.

These jokers are only good at coming up with excuses to exonerate themselves from earning their dues.

(Since they are not in politics for ideals)

BuiTaHan on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 7:50 pm 

Only idiots will believe HDB story!!!

deoxin on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 7:53 pm 

@for singapore on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 6:22 pm

“tell me,if gahmen taking care of us,how come so many people out of job?”

mr, u r expecting exactly what many people protesting (rejecting) .. gahmen as nanny. however, if it’s really the employment as the measure, tell me then … how has the singapore gahmen perform compare to other countries? .. be objective, look out for unemployment rate around the world, n do tell me please.

am not saying gahmen is perfect, but perhaps.. am not as often, not as easily attributing hardships n setbacks to gahmen failure.

if u r sincere enuf to look around, u still find success stories of people who just dont blame gahmen so much, but keep pushing n trying n working on their own ..n achieve relative success. these people dont expect gahmen to make life easy for them, but yet they overcome many things. if u have chance to meet to some of them, u’ll be surprise that these people tend to support gahmen.

look, why dont u start to own ur live more n think positively. gahmen policies maynot make it easier for u, but these very policies will apply to every singaporean. . . yet some s’porean will succeed, why not u?

Time for Change on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 9:18 pm 

Parliamentarian Lim Wee Kiak raised the issue of affordable housing in September by advocating a new mechanism to provide bridging loans to young couples looking to buy their first flat. In response, National Development Minister Mah Bow Tan said that HDB flats remain affordable to most Singaporeans, with first-time households using on average less than 30% of their household income to service their housing loans.

However a study published last year by National University of Singapore economists Tilak Abeysinghe and Gu Jiaying found that the purchasing power of people’s lifetime earnings was lower in 2007 than it was in 1990 when tracked against the prices of HDB resale flats. The study found that the prices of HDB resale flats were less affordable over the period – and notably before the more recent surge in prices.

What Mah apparently overlooked was the impact of longer mortgage loan periods. In the 1980s, maximum loan tenures were set at 20 years. It has since been revised upward and this year 56% of HDB flat buyers opted for the maximum 30-year tenure. Analysts say a higher cost of living means that your average Singaporean must allocate a higher percentage of their monthly income for housing than was required 20 years ago. It also means that Singaporeans need to work longer than before to pay off their housing loans, they say.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Southeast_Asia/KK04Ae01.html

Playing with the figures again. So what’s new.

Poorsgp on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 9:20 pm 

How true is it?

John Potus on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 9:30 pm 

deoxin on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 7:53 pm

Are you one of those paid bloggers that the MIW said they will be using to counter widespread anti-MIW opinion amongst the people.?

If you are, you are not doing a good job.

Singaporeans are voicing their grievances that foreigners are suppressing the wages here but you are not addressing the issue.

Please explain why a local must accept a job that pays him less than what is required to support his family and himself. Because of the influx of cheap labour, most blue collar jobs are offering salaries less than $1,000 per month. After deducting CPF, transport and other miscellaneous items, the take home pay is probably about $300. While this is more than sufficient for a single foreigner staying 4 or 5 to a room, it is definitely not enough for a local with a family to support.

Please explain why we should except this salary and not kick out the MIW instead? If you are not going to address the issue please remain silent.

“Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.” -Abraham Lincoln

Aiyoyo on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 9:43 pm 

3 questions? 1)How much is the land valued this time round?
2)Wasn’t is said not too long ago that costs of construction have come down significantly, hence the lower costs of upgrading lifts!
3)Is it not true that flats are built smaller and buildings as high as above 40 storeys? If this is true and flats are priced to market rates, it really puzzles me how the loss came about?

Mainstreetcitizen on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 9:52 pm 

I wonder how much bonuses they will get this time round, since it’s a loss!

Noisy flatulence not welcomed on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 10:08 pm 

@ deoxin on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 7:53 pm

Your print post at this location is almost as noisy in flatulence of fiction I almost hear in my ear drum now even though we might be physical miles apart. This thread is about accounting – do you know if debit is “bad” and credit is “good” if this might be another evidence and dimension of your flatulence.

Who tells you that bloggers here are less successful mob easily given to “attributing hardships n setbacks to gahmen failure…”???

And to close on such flatulence of hypocrisy like….” yet some s’porean will succeed, why not u? “pretentious of arrogance as if you are the only successful one around, says a lot about your little chicken sh#t mindset of no awareness around you.

If I am a betting man, you would not be anywhere as successful as at least one of the blogger here for certainty – probably not out of your own effort.

A TR survey straw poll recently disclosed 9% of the thousands of visitors are entrepreneurs and 4% are lawyers – are these likely to be the “unsuccessful one” needing to displace blame for their “failures” or are they the most successful ones with plenty of idle time to read TR blogs and also blogging at the same time of societal concerns?

Please keep your flatulence symphony within the confines of your bathroom – for the sake of public health and peace of mind.

Thank you!!!

Mainstreetcitizen on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 10:10 pm 

Flats are built smaller and the buildings are taller these days, perhaps even as high as 42 storeys compared to those built in the 80s, which are only 12 storeys high. Prices are priced to market rates these days. It was also mentioned not too long ago that construction costs have come down, hence the lower cost of lifts upgrading. So, Im kind of puzzle how the loss came about! Again, I look forward to the transparency!

rc on Wed, 4th Nov 2009 12:33 am 

agree with Mainstreetcitizen that perhaps HDB should explain better what they mean when they say that have raked up $2 billion in deficit and how that came about. e.g. how much do they subsidise for each flat (cos that would contribute to the deficit), where are the other sources of ‘loss’.

sporeguy on Wed, 4th Nov 2009 8:04 am 

They might as well report $20 billion deficit. Whatever is the amount we will not know because there is no transparency.

I would rather think the deficit is due to the high wages & bonus (Remember Lim Boon Heng said 8mth bonus to a civil servant during the Lehman collapse is justified) paid to the top executives. This shows that the government is insensitive to Singaporeans feelings.

HDB prices has gone up several times but our wages remains the same. I think next time young citizens can only apply a 1room flat coz Mah Bow Tan said choose only the size of flat which you’re capable of buying. They should built 1room flats from now on.

sicktothebones on Wed, 4th Nov 2009 8:22 am 

“these people dont expect gahmen to make life easy for them”

I don’t expect govt to make things easy for me just don’t kill us with a thousand cuts and indirect taxes. The ridiculous extent the MSM wil go to put a positive spin on the most obvious half-truths is Animal Farm re-created. Wonder if the govt schools still use this wonderful classic as part of their literature curriculum?

I think it is pointless to argue with a mindset that is already programmed and bleached to support the estab in everything yet posing to be a singlish heartlander – fakes are very easily spotted in TR.

cat on Wed, 4th Nov 2009 8:57 am 

//#csl

Yeah right, as if without Singaporeans serving your housing loan, working and living in your flats, SLA can drive land prices up?

Who decides what is a fair price for land for housing?

Same as what decides the fine to be 1000 dollar for littering in Singapore and maybe 10 dollars for the same offence in Malaysia?

It is true that govt wouldn’t derive an income from land sale and that needs to be factored in and in our case, land costs need to be high to feed the high salaries of our non performing ministers.

cat on Wed, 4th Nov 2009 9:04 am 

It is true that govt wouldn’t derive an income from land sale if that is not factored in

and that needs to be factored in and in our case,

land costs need to be high to feed the high salaries of our non performing ministers.

Yet they cannot set it too high, without increasing the minimum sum limit, in case, flat prices are driven sky high and the owners of flats sell their flats and make a lot of monies and then immigrate.

It also ensures those who inherit a flat doesn’t receive too high a wind fall for nothing and stop working.

The minimum sum ensures that you don’t make enough monies ou of the sale of the flat.

MIW on Wed, 4th Nov 2009 9:28 am 

Unsold HDB flats cleared, 2000 applicants for SBF flats should get their flats soon. 18000 applicants to go, therefore we are building 7000 BTO for the rest of this year, so that the other 11000 can slowly wait. plus x number of applicants who did not apply for SBF flats in the first place for some reason. plus next year’s y number of new applicants who decide to get married – cos unmarried people have been discriminated against for the longest time so they mostly can’t qualify to apply anyway.

total applicants not catered for = 11000 + x + y?

moral of the story =
“BTO is the way to go, to judge demand. u click my BTO site, i build.”

interpretation =
not everyone clicks the BTO site. only those who agree to buy at your current prices. u ignore those who don’t click.

LKYblowsgoats on Wed, 4th Nov 2009 11:07 am 

Quote from coffeeshop talk:

HDB accounting style is the “mun ka li” type..

they can sell their Duxton 4 room flat at 650k because neighbouring hdb sold for this amount.. but they only sell u 500k..

so they account it as for every 4 room flat sold, they lose 150k.. hence the 2billion deficit..

Lick One Ewe on Wed, 4th Nov 2009 11:10 am 

http://www.flamed2.com/urban/2008/05/05/kiaramas-ayuria-a-truly-dream-abode/

http://www.iproperty.com.my/propertylisting/124267/Ayuria_Kiaramas_Condominium_ForSale

1,605 sq feet condo (freehold land in prime area on top of a hill) selling price RM780,000 which is approx SGD323,000.

The materials are mostly imported e.g. Italian finishings, finnish floorboards, etc. Comes with aircons, fibre optic broadband lines, video display security screen, etc. On top of that, the landbank had to be purchased by the developer from the state government and is freehold.

HDB?

1) FREE land cost
2) Bangla construction workers
3) Materials from Malaysia and Indonesia (no Italian tiles, etc)
4) Empty (no kitchen cabinets, no aircons, no broadband lines, no pool, no tennis courts, etc)

Speculation: Estimated cost for a BTO flat < SGD100K and they sell to the public at SGD300K+

DEFICIT MY ASS!

LKYBlowsGoats on Wed, 4th Nov 2009 11:20 am 

Quote from coffeeshop talk:

HDB accounting style:

they can sell their Duxton 4 room flat at 650k because neighbouring hdb sold for this amount.. but they only sell u for 500k..

so they account it as for every 4 room flat sold, they lose 150k.. hence the 2billion deficit..

JJ on Wed, 4th Nov 2009 12:31 pm 

Statistics can lie.
I don’t believe the cock and bull story

deoxin on Wed, 4th Nov 2009 12:36 pm 

@Lick One Ewe

the issue of limited resources (in our case: land) is not unique to singapore. in indonesia n malaysia, the issue comes in the form of OIL.

to them, the country’s oil is for the people. hence, the “raw oil” itself should be priced to be ZERO, i.e. $0 a.k.a. FREE. hence, the total cost includes only: cost of extraction + cost processing + cost of distribution. And since the oil extracted is more than domestic usage n then exported, the proceed should be “returned to the people” in the form of subsidy of gas & utility price. so, when oil price goes up ..they demo n protest n curse the gahmen ..bcoz to them, the price of oil that goes up ..is supposed to be FREE.

in singapore, it’s the land. how to factor in the land price? $0 a.k.a FREE too? well, the gahmen doesnt think so, they factor in the “market price” then give “subsidy”.

in my work, it’s project budgeting. since the engineers will be paid anyway, whether anot they r doing my project …so, err.. how do i “price” them? i could probably argue that they r “overhead” of company since company employ them n pay them regardless whether they do my/ANY project anot; as such my project cost will be very low. however, i always factor in “man-days”, the market rate of their effort.

FYI, i’ve been house-hunting for a year oso. right now, am pretty upset too.

Neil Bishop on Wed, 4th Nov 2009 12:41 pm 

Ahhh, now I know where some of the money to prop up Temasek was found: they raided the HDB and claimed that it the resultant HDB shortfall proved that the Lee Family (aka The Government) is so generous with support of Singaporeans with HDB apartments.

Seriously, can anyone in Singapore believe anything these Men-in-Black say anymore? They’ve crossed the line and become pathological liars!

btan on Wed, 4th Nov 2009 1:38 pm 

@rc on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 5:35 pm

HDB is a privatised organisation hence profit is implied. Is MOE a privatised organisation? Yours is a strawman argument.

@deoxin on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 5:58 pm

Come on, we all know that HDB has mutated from “providing affordable housing” to “gouging the people with expensive houses”.

How can HDB be making a loss when houses are so expensive!! Either there is mismanagement somewhere or there is corruption somewhere. Either case, the entire management team needs to be sacked.

This is similar to the Temasek holdings fiasco. Yet losing 5 billion not a single head is rolled.

Worried for the future on Wed, 4th Nov 2009 2:26 pm 

What are they trying to tell us by disclosing this huge deficit? But I wonder how they do the sums. We only lease from them, the property actually still belongs to them. How do they account for this? HDB can you show us more details, please?

deoxin on Wed, 4th Nov 2009 2:28 pm 

@btan

i’d very much prefer the housing price to be lower too. am now upset that the price has gone up to the sky.

but let’s do little exercise of our own. HDB doesn’t want to release the breakdown, so be it. All gahmen tender r online. Let’s check how much the tender cost, i.e. cost of building alone. (if not wrong, somewhere in http://www.punggol.org forum got information all in one thread for one of the punggol BTO, if it’s easier)

then let’s estimate the HDB overhead cost.

then let’s decide, should the price of the land be ZERO a.k.a. FREE? since it’s only involve paperwork, transfer from LTA to HDB.

then, to be a little more objective, let’s compare with housing price somewhere else, but apple-to-apple. let’s take hongkong?

then let’s come back here with all the information to share with our fellow singaporean, so they know the truth. let’s expose HDB !!

however, i got nagging feeling that after all this exercise, u’ll find the facts r the opposite of ur initial assumption. just a feeling tho. let’s do it!!

deoxin on Wed, 4th Nov 2009 2:51 pm 

@John Potus on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 9:30 pm

am NOT paid. my opinion is of my own. it doesnt represent anyone else or any party, for that matter. but yes, my opinion reflects my confident in the government of PAP. however, it doesn’t necessarily mean i am in agreement in all n every government policy.
in respect of HDB, for example, i think there’s a gap in the planning. the situation is bad.
BUT am not one of, what-they-called, single-issue voter. i do not judge the entire PAP team based on single specific issue. i do not believe, an imperfection in one decision is a PROOF of bad judgement in ALL OTHER decisions.

n john, why should remain silent? am going to reason with u, if u r reasonable. am not here saying every singaporean r well-off; but am saying that (1) gahmen has tried n keeps trying to improve the conditions. (2) i dont believe WP/LTK or CST are more capable to solve the issue than MIW. sorry.

to convince people to vote for opposition, ur argument shouldn’t stop at saying MIW fails. u should also say n convince me that WP/LTK/CST WILL BE successful. i also want change, but change for the better. i don’t work for gahmen, i dont any benefit if MIW in power. am saying what am saying simply bcoz i dont feel secure with the current opposition, that’s all n nothing more.

@Noisy flatulence not welcomed on Tue, 3rd Nov 2009 10:08 pm
am just like ordinary sporean, work in ordinary job, getting ordinary pay. am not trying to be arrogant, sorry if am come accross as such.
however, unlike u.. i think with my head, not my ass. such that, my fart comes out my ass ..since my ass is not busy thinking n typing shit like urs. sorry.

fair and square on Wed, 4th Nov 2009 3:22 pm 

I BEG TO DIFFER!
why not,like GIC and Temasek,give the public an over-a-10-or-20-years’ profit performance of HDB?
i am quite sure they have made tons and loads of monies!!!!

Noisy flatulence not welcomed on Wed, 4th Nov 2009 4:40 pm 

@ deoxin on Wed, 4th Nov 2009 2:51 pm

Oh, I am extremely flattered… my ass thinks better than your head!! SO IMAGINATIVE VERSATILE..and what comes out of your head – noisy and boring of intelligence.

btan on Wed, 4th Nov 2009 5:10 pm 

@deoxin on Wed, 4th Nov 2009 2:28 pm

Do you think its so simple to judge the financial health and performance of a company just by digging the net?

The real way is to scrutinise their financial statements and doing an audit, both in which we have no access.

As many have said before, HDB is a monopoly yet they claimed they are operating a lost. My first impression is : is someone taking money or someone being utterly incompetent??

How can prices of HDB be so high, HDB being a monopoly and yet they are making a lost. Something must not be adding up.

Regardless the reason, you can bet good money that this will be used as an excuse to increase the price of housing.

I hope you enjoy the more expensive houses in future.

Me? If I have a say, I will sack the entire management team and appoint a more credible, competent and transparent team.

btan on Wed, 4th Nov 2009 5:53 pm 

@deoxin on Wed, 4th Nov 2009 2:28 pm

Do you think its so simple to judge the financial health and performance of a company just by digging the net?

The real way is to scrutinise their financial statements and doing an audit, both in which we have no access.

As many have said before, HDB is a monopoly yet they claimed they are operating a lost. My first impression is : is someone taking money or someone being utterly incompetent??

How can prices of HDB be so high, HDB being a monopoly and yet they are making a lost. Something must not be adding up.

Regardless the reason, you can bet good money that this will be used as an excuse to increase the price of housing.

I hope you enjoy the more expensive houses in future.

Me? If I have a say, I will sack the entire management team and appoint a more credible, competent and transparent team.
Sorry… forgot to say great post – can’t wait to read your next one!

Mainstreetcitizen on Wed, 4th Nov 2009 11:03 pm 

Statistics dont lie, but rather the lack of complete set of statistics!

Anonymous on Thu, 5th Nov 2009 12:00 am 

Mainstreetcitizen on Wed, 4th Nov 2009 11:03 pm

But it is NOT statistics here. It is accounting AND THE SO-CALLED “GENERALLY ACCEPTED ACCOUTING PRINCIPLES” IN ANNUAL REPORTS offer a widest range of possibilities for cooking up your profit and loss account even in the same industry.

Any CFO, CEO and public auditors will tell you this simple truth.

deoxin on Thu, 5th Nov 2009 12:35 am 

@btan

am not suggesting to certify and endorse their annual report.

am simply suggesting making a rough estimation. i pointed out that the tender result for BTO are posted online. if u really concern about the issue, why dont u find the numbers and we discuss further from there rather than making wild guess.

i’ve calculated before and my conclusion is ..it’s all down to the price of land. to which.. somewhere up there, i’ve mentioned that this is about pricing a limited resources of a country. it is not unique to singapore.

if u, after doing the due research, agree with me that it’s about land pricing. then let’s move forward n discuss about how to price the land, ZERO? a.k.a NOTHING alias FREE? ..or how?

if u angry about gahmen not planning properly, then i said (way way up there) that i agree with. there’s some gap in supply n demand.

i dont further discussion is necessary if all u based on ..is ur emotion, ur gut feeling of the numbers, and ur imaginative reasoning.

–as for the deficit, HDB is not meant to make profit. should any head roll for supply-demand gap? imho, depends on how fast they can rectify this issue.

Spaceman on Thu, 5th Nov 2009 10:09 am 

If hdb is making losses, then it is run by by a bunch of white elephants, period. Even if a dog ran a monopoly, it would make money for sure! To cut all ‘these losses’, simply sack the board of directors and get more capable people at a lower salary to better manage hdb.