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	<title>Comments on: A rebuttal to MND: Why Mah Bow Tan is wrong on upgrading</title>
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	<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/10/14/a-rebuttal-to-mnd-why-mah-bow-tan-is-wrong-on-upgrading/</link>
	<description>The true voice of Singaporeans for Singapore</description>
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		<title>By: XiSd Tay</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/10/14/a-rebuttal-to-mnd-why-mah-bow-tan-is-wrong-on-upgrading/comment-page-1/#comment-36068</link>
		<dc:creator>XiSd Tay</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Oct 2009 15:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.temasekreview.com/?p=15493#comment-36068</guid>
		<description>Allow me to quote someone close to the famiLEE who claims that he heard someone in the famiLEE preach: 

&lt;blockquote&gt;If you let someone change you or make you apologise, then you are selling yourself out.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Maybe thats the reason why Sinkapore Gahment and Millisters always make &#039;honest mistakes&#039; and NEVER apologise! :(</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Allow me to quote someone close to the famiLEE who claims that he heard someone in the famiLEE preach: </p>
<blockquote><p>If you let someone change you or make you apologise, then you are selling yourself out.</p></blockquote>
<p>Maybe thats the reason why Sinkapore Gahment and Millisters always make &#8216;honest mistakes&#8217; and NEVER apologise! <img src='http://www.temasekreview.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_sad.gif' alt=':(' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Anonymous</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/10/14/a-rebuttal-to-mnd-why-mah-bow-tan-is-wrong-on-upgrading/comment-page-1/#comment-34800</link>
		<dc:creator>Anonymous</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 07:10:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.temasekreview.com/?p=15493#comment-34800</guid>
		<description>How does budget surplus arises? Collect more taxes - COE, ERP, sell HDB at phenomenal profits marked to inflated and manipulated market resale price and refusing to show books on accounting of land and contruction (and denying the same to finality) etc etc AND SPEND LESS ON MEDICAL, EDUCATION, COMMUNITY WELFARE ETC. 

Give any money to any monkey in white dressed up with a tuxedo, he or she will know how to spend less on your needs and tells you that he or she should be credited with the surplus generation. A robber might as well tells me I woes him his loot.

And then bait you with a peanut threatening further that if you are not grateful, the privilege will be withdrawn.

LUP doing Singaporean a favour? Or is it selective bribery and corrupt conduct of privilege handout for votes???

Nobody believes this mob of creeps anymore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How does budget surplus arises? Collect more taxes &#8211; COE, ERP, sell HDB at phenomenal profits marked to inflated and manipulated market resale price and refusing to show books on accounting of land and contruction (and denying the same to finality) etc etc AND SPEND LESS ON MEDICAL, EDUCATION, COMMUNITY WELFARE ETC. </p>
<p>Give any money to any monkey in white dressed up with a tuxedo, he or she will know how to spend less on your needs and tells you that he or she should be credited with the surplus generation. A robber might as well tells me I woes him his loot.</p>
<p>And then bait you with a peanut threatening further that if you are not grateful, the privilege will be withdrawn.</p>
<p>LUP doing Singaporean a favour? Or is it selective bribery and corrupt conduct of privilege handout for votes???</p>
<p>Nobody believes this mob of creeps anymore.</p>
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		<title>By: fpc</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/10/14/a-rebuttal-to-mnd-why-mah-bow-tan-is-wrong-on-upgrading/comment-page-1/#comment-34780</link>
		<dc:creator>fpc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 05:42:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.temasekreview.com/?p=15493#comment-34780</guid>
		<description>//rc

There are more good candidates from the opposition than there are good candidates from PAP.

The proportion of crap from PAP mps is so much higher than the proportion of crap from opposition.

Factor in the fact that even if we bring in a slightly below standard opposition MP, we will end up a lot more goodies from PAP than what they are sucking from us, the ordinary people.

The scenario where PAP is completely overturn in the next election is not a likely scenario. It would meant that they must have screwed up big big time... bigger than the TH and GIC failures combined.

When that happens, opposition is the last group you should blame. PAP is at fault by 1st degree.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>//rc</p>
<p>There are more good candidates from the opposition than there are good candidates from PAP.</p>
<p>The proportion of crap from PAP mps is so much higher than the proportion of crap from opposition.</p>
<p>Factor in the fact that even if we bring in a slightly below standard opposition MP, we will end up a lot more goodies from PAP than what they are sucking from us, the ordinary people.</p>
<p>The scenario where PAP is completely overturn in the next election is not a likely scenario. It would meant that they must have screwed up big big time&#8230; bigger than the TH and GIC failures combined.</p>
<p>When that happens, opposition is the last group you should blame. PAP is at fault by 1st degree.</p>
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		<title>By: fpc</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/10/14/a-rebuttal-to-mnd-why-mah-bow-tan-is-wrong-on-upgrading/comment-page-1/#comment-34776</link>
		<dc:creator>fpc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 05:34:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.temasekreview.com/?p=15493#comment-34776</guid>
		<description>//rc
I can bet with you if WP is in place to execute what you claimed is their point of attracting international talent, there won&#039;t be that many complaints because of their execution.

And execution is key.

The crap that pap attracts are not talent.

For one, they need our monies to integrate them.

I have never heard of that in any other country and the amount is not small... 10 million.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>//rc<br />
I can bet with you if WP is in place to execute what you claimed is their point of attracting international talent, there won&#8217;t be that many complaints because of their execution.</p>
<p>And execution is key.</p>
<p>The crap that pap attracts are not talent.</p>
<p>For one, they need our monies to integrate them.</p>
<p>I have never heard of that in any other country and the amount is not small&#8230; 10 million.</p>
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		<title>By: fpc</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/10/14/a-rebuttal-to-mnd-why-mah-bow-tan-is-wrong-on-upgrading/comment-page-1/#comment-34740</link>
		<dc:creator>fpc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Oct 2009 00:07:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.temasekreview.com/?p=15493#comment-34740</guid>
		<description>//silenceisgolden

//even monkeys are not paid peanuts

That depends on where the monkeys are.

Our pigs in white for example are paid millions to get other people to do the work and when the projects fail, they don&#039;t take responsibility.

Losing millions in investments doesn&#039;t take even need a degree. The thick skinned pigs of course need some intelligence to wiggle their way out and that is not to our interest.

We are the only supposedly developed country where an MP is set fire upon by a resident.

Goes to show the level of our pigs in white.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>//silenceisgolden</p>
<p>//even monkeys are not paid peanuts</p>
<p>That depends on where the monkeys are.</p>
<p>Our pigs in white for example are paid millions to get other people to do the work and when the projects fail, they don&#8217;t take responsibility.</p>
<p>Losing millions in investments doesn&#8217;t take even need a degree. The thick skinned pigs of course need some intelligence to wiggle their way out and that is not to our interest.</p>
<p>We are the only supposedly developed country where an MP is set fire upon by a resident.</p>
<p>Goes to show the level of our pigs in white.</p>
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		<title>By: fpc</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/10/14/a-rebuttal-to-mnd-why-mah-bow-tan-is-wrong-on-upgrading/comment-page-1/#comment-34739</link>
		<dc:creator>fpc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 23:46:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.temasekreview.com/?p=15493#comment-34739</guid>
		<description>//MTan

The way the Budget surplus is collected requires the public to obey or accept certain abnormal rules from PAP: such as reduced education subsidy in comparison with other countries of the same level of development.

SO, it actually came from you and me.

And we are paying them to collect those fees.

Imagine they created budget surpluses by selling land as and when they want. IS there not a cost to that?

Unless, they can achieve budget surplus at the same level of public expenditure in all the domain like in other countries of similar development, the surpluses is just extra taxes collected from us.

they would just be numbers that look good again to glorify their existence much like a push up bra to a pair of breast but if you take it again, you will be disappointed.

OR if you want, ... like an insurance agent who tries to cheat the shareholders by churning policies over the 2 years periods where he receives a larger commission than what he pays for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>//MTan</p>
<p>The way the Budget surplus is collected requires the public to obey or accept certain abnormal rules from PAP: such as reduced education subsidy in comparison with other countries of the same level of development.</p>
<p>SO, it actually came from you and me.</p>
<p>And we are paying them to collect those fees.</p>
<p>Imagine they created budget surpluses by selling land as and when they want. IS there not a cost to that?</p>
<p>Unless, they can achieve budget surplus at the same level of public expenditure in all the domain like in other countries of similar development, the surpluses is just extra taxes collected from us.</p>
<p>they would just be numbers that look good again to glorify their existence much like a push up bra to a pair of breast but if you take it again, you will be disappointed.</p>
<p>OR if you want, &#8230; like an insurance agent who tries to cheat the shareholders by churning policies over the 2 years periods where he receives a larger commission than what he pays for.</p>
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		<title>By: MTan</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/10/14/a-rebuttal-to-mnd-why-mah-bow-tan-is-wrong-on-upgrading/comment-page-1/#comment-34735</link>
		<dc:creator>MTan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 22:49:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.temasekreview.com/?p=15493#comment-34735</guid>
		<description>A well argued piece of article and I agree with most of what&#039;s said. However, in reference to the below point, I do not understand your point. All citizens in their countries pay taxes, etc, but not all countries have budget surpluses. Therefore, isn&#039;t it a weak point to say that budget surpluses is not generated govt policies? Could you explain on this point?

But I truly agree that it isn&#039;t fair for residents of Hougang and Potong Pasir to be ignored just being opposition wards.


[3. Funding for LUP is possible only because of the Government and the Budget surpluses it has generated through prudent policies.

It is not right for the PAP government to claim credit for the budget surpluses.

While their policies do play a contributory role, it is ultimately the hardworking and thrify people of Singapore who is responsible for our budget surpluses.  ]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A well argued piece of article and I agree with most of what&#8217;s said. However, in reference to the below point, I do not understand your point. All citizens in their countries pay taxes, etc, but not all countries have budget surpluses. Therefore, isn&#8217;t it a weak point to say that budget surpluses is not generated govt policies? Could you explain on this point?</p>
<p>But I truly agree that it isn&#8217;t fair for residents of Hougang and Potong Pasir to be ignored just being opposition wards.</p>
<p>[3. Funding for LUP is possible only because of the Government and the Budget surpluses it has generated through prudent policies.</p>
<p>It is not right for the PAP government to claim credit for the budget surpluses.</p>
<p>While their policies do play a contributory role, it is ultimately the hardworking and thrify people of Singapore who is responsible for our budget surpluses.  ]</p>
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		<title>By: btan</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/10/14/a-rebuttal-to-mnd-why-mah-bow-tan-is-wrong-on-upgrading/comment-page-1/#comment-34552</link>
		<dc:creator>btan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 06:15:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.temasekreview.com/?p=15493#comment-34552</guid>
		<description>@rc

There is ideas and there is concrete plan. At this moment, I am content with just ideas. After all, they are not voted in yet and honestly, who would want to reveal their concrete plan when it could be easily stolen?

Let&#039;s take a commercial example. If two companies are selling slimming services, company A is the market leader but have a lot of unhappy customers because there are no comparable services. Company B is up and coming and promised slimming results but does not need to do the method of company A. At this point in time, you have to decide if you want to try out company B. Given that company A is terrible and there are no other alternatives, why not? Company B cannot reveal all their trade secrets simply because company A can easily copy their secrets and sell it as their own.

Back to politics, concrete plan not revealed is understandable and itself is a trick use by PAP government and their mouth pieces to challenge opposition for not coming up with good ideas. And when they really did come up with some good ideas, these are implemented by government and the credit stolen.

Relating to new ideas, no idea is completely new. Each idea is built on the last few ideas. Originality is not important but the effect is. The idea of two party system or true democracy is nothing new. Democracy itself is 2500 years old, yet it does not stop it to become the pre-eminent form of government in this world.

At the end of the day, the devil&#039;s in the detail and execution. There is no concrete way to be sure unless we vote in opposition as government.

Anyway, I see this kind of discussion academic and to be honest, a red herring. Basically a trick by PAP to smoke people out. 

The purpose of opposition is not to give ideas. Their purpose is to check on the government. The government, with their million dollar salaries should be the ones who come up with ideas. If they cannot, then they should resign or reduce their salaries and offer one million dollar reward for the best ideas to be submitted.

To close this, your sojourn into the world of opposition information is already a great step. I only wish more people like you will do so instead of just echoing the government&#039;s stale arguments again and again. I almost feel like a broken record trying to rebut these people again and again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@rc</p>
<p>There is ideas and there is concrete plan. At this moment, I am content with just ideas. After all, they are not voted in yet and honestly, who would want to reveal their concrete plan when it could be easily stolen?</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s take a commercial example. If two companies are selling slimming services, company A is the market leader but have a lot of unhappy customers because there are no comparable services. Company B is up and coming and promised slimming results but does not need to do the method of company A. At this point in time, you have to decide if you want to try out company B. Given that company A is terrible and there are no other alternatives, why not? Company B cannot reveal all their trade secrets simply because company A can easily copy their secrets and sell it as their own.</p>
<p>Back to politics, concrete plan not revealed is understandable and itself is a trick use by PAP government and their mouth pieces to challenge opposition for not coming up with good ideas. And when they really did come up with some good ideas, these are implemented by government and the credit stolen.</p>
<p>Relating to new ideas, no idea is completely new. Each idea is built on the last few ideas. Originality is not important but the effect is. The idea of two party system or true democracy is nothing new. Democracy itself is 2500 years old, yet it does not stop it to become the pre-eminent form of government in this world.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, the devil&#8217;s in the detail and execution. There is no concrete way to be sure unless we vote in opposition as government.</p>
<p>Anyway, I see this kind of discussion academic and to be honest, a red herring. Basically a trick by PAP to smoke people out. </p>
<p>The purpose of opposition is not to give ideas. Their purpose is to check on the government. The government, with their million dollar salaries should be the ones who come up with ideas. If they cannot, then they should resign or reduce their salaries and offer one million dollar reward for the best ideas to be submitted.</p>
<p>To close this, your sojourn into the world of opposition information is already a great step. I only wish more people like you will do so instead of just echoing the government&#8217;s stale arguments again and again. I almost feel like a broken record trying to rebut these people again and again.</p>
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		<title>By: f.k.h.</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/10/14/a-rebuttal-to-mnd-why-mah-bow-tan-is-wrong-on-upgrading/comment-page-1/#comment-34522</link>
		<dc:creator>f.k.h.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Oct 2009 04:11:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.temasekreview.com/?p=15493#comment-34522</guid>
		<description>susah lah... no upgrade also complain, now give upgrade also complaint. bising here and goreng there wait they cancel upgrading everyone wiil be diam...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>susah lah&#8230; no upgrade also complain, now give upgrade also complaint. bising here and goreng there wait they cancel upgrading everyone wiil be diam&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Emb</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/10/14/a-rebuttal-to-mnd-why-mah-bow-tan-is-wrong-on-upgrading/comment-page-1/#comment-34416</link>
		<dc:creator>Emb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Oct 2009 17:14:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.temasekreview.com/?p=15493#comment-34416</guid>
		<description>What will you do if a 5 year old boy robs by a young man? What will you do if an old lady is robbed by a young man? Singaporean will turn a blind eye as long as it is not their problems. Some Singaporean might even help the young man rob if given some benefits. Where are you dear Singaporean when the old and weak in Hougang are deprived of lift for the past donkey years? Where are you when the people of Hougang and Potong Pasir is not receiving their fair share development? Love your neighbor as yourself. If the young man cannot behave, get him out of your area by voting. Singapore did not fall during Raffles time, British colony, japanese occupation and cut off from Malaysia. PAP not around. The survival of Singapore dosen&#039;t depend on PAP but GOD.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What will you do if a 5 year old boy robs by a young man? What will you do if an old lady is robbed by a young man? Singaporean will turn a blind eye as long as it is not their problems. Some Singaporean might even help the young man rob if given some benefits. Where are you dear Singaporean when the old and weak in Hougang are deprived of lift for the past donkey years? Where are you when the people of Hougang and Potong Pasir is not receiving their fair share development? Love your neighbor as yourself. If the young man cannot behave, get him out of your area by voting. Singapore did not fall during Raffles time, British colony, japanese occupation and cut off from Malaysia. PAP not around. The survival of Singapore dosen&#8217;t depend on PAP but GOD.</p>
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