Since when do we need “foreign talent” to be clinic assistants?
From our Correspondent
According to the Straits Times report yesterday, a 37 year old Chinese national was fined $5,000 for submitting a forged nursing diploma to get a work pass.
Ma Yuqing, however, will serve a default sentence of four weeks’ jail as she could not pay the fine. On Jan 28, she lied to the Controller of Work Passes in her application for an S Pass that she was a nursing graduate from the Chinese university.
She was given an S Pass to work as a medical assistant for J.R. Family Clinic and Acupuncture Centre where she worked until June 9.
The irony of it all is that Ma would still have been granted the S pass even if she did not have the forged qualification.
With due respect to clinic assistants, one does not need any special qualifications to become one. Most clinic assistants require only basic “N” or “O” level passes.
As such, there are many Singaporeans who qualify for the job. Why does J.R. Family clinic need to employ a Chinese national to fill the position?
Singaporeans are told repeatedly by the government that we need both highly qualified professionals and unskilled foreigners to take up jobs that Singaporeans shun such as construction work.
In the past, all the clinic assistants in Singapore are locals. It offers a stable job with a reasonable income and therefore it is unlikely that locals will shun them. Therefore, why are foreigners like Ma allowed to work in Singapore as one on a S-pass?
Besides clinic assistants, foreigners are also taking up jobs that can otherwise be filled by Singaporeans such as tele-marketeers, administrators, IT engineers and even coffeeshop assistants.
Some cannot speak even basic English or English with such a heavy accent which is incomprehensive to locals. Yet, they are able invited to become PRs after working in Singapore for two years. To add salt to the injury, the government is now offering free language courses to them at the expenses of taxpayers!
Though foreigners are needed in certain sectors of the economy, they should be kept strictly out of bounds from jobs like clinic assistants.
The ultimate aim of employers is simply to keep business costs down. Between a foreigner who cost much less than a local, the choice is obvious. But foreigners can survive on with a monthly salary of less than $1,000 as they are living alone here while Singaporeans need to feed their families which explains many do not want to take up these jobs at low pay.
The influx of foreigners had kept the wages of the bottom 20 per cent of the income group stagnant over the last decade. On the contrary, the upper 5 per cent of the income group has seen their wages increased annually with the exception of last year due to the global economic crisis. (Source: singstat)
Mass import of foreigners will surely increase our GDP growth because they produce more at a lower cost. Unfortunately, the fruits of Singapore’s GDP is not spread evenly across the population.
It is time for the government to review its liberal pro-foreigner manpower and immigration policies so that “foreign talent” like Ma can be kept out of Singapore’s shores.
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Kim Jong Il on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 10:15 am
The reason I expect to hear:
Singaporeans are choosy. They are are not willing to take the job as Clinic assistant because of low pay and the job is too tough for them. We need foreign workers like Ma Yuqing to fill up this gap.
XiSd Tay on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 10:30 am
Why am I not surprised?
Infact, a few years back, Chinese with proper medical degree have been employed in Gahment Hospitals as Senior Nurse, Nurse, except Doctors.
They are qualified doctors but drawing the pay of a Nurse, why not? More better qualified but lower pay.
Better than employing locals with only a Nursing Degree or Nursing Certificate commanding the same or higher pay than the Chinese Doctors employed as Nurse, right?
You get more for your dollar, which employer would not have done the same?
ChaoCheeseBuy on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 10:36 am
PAP *pui*
singaporean on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 10:38 am
Dear Kim Jong II …. pls do your homework and don’t insult singaporean as a whole.
You should be more polite over here.
Kim Jong Il on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 10:39 am
@XiSd Tay
You missed the point completely. In the first place, we do not need foreign workers to fill up gaps for Clinic assistants.
There is nothing wrong with the employer. It is the pro-foreigner policy that the article is criticizing.
Pig R on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 10:46 am
Corrections.
A foreigner does not need to work here 2 years to get PR. One can get PR within months of arrival!!
sheldon on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 10:48 am
if i am not mistaken, S Pass can be the most prone to abuse by employers, because of it terribly low levy of $50 per month. imagine an employer employing S Pass foreigners will not have to pay CPF but only $50 per month.
assuming a monthly pay of $1000 for the post of clinic assistant, for a singaporean, that employer will have to pay (14.5% of $1000=) $145. a saving of $95.
but let’s take this case off our eyes for a moment, because S Pass is supposed to apply to skilled workers earning at least $1800, which means that this sector of employment will be the most prone to abuse, given that the higher salary would mean more than a saving of $95.
assuming a pay of $1800,
employer’s contribution would be (14.5% of $1800=) $216.
resulting in a savings of $166. that’s per head. the cap for employment of S Pass workers is 25% of total workforce, which allows for quite a substantial saving.
although employers are required to pay a medical insurance cover of at least $5000 for each worker per year, i am not sure if it is stringently enforced, or if it is, if it will mitigate its potential for abuse.
XiSd Tay on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 10:49 am
Kim Jong II, not exactly that I missed the point. I agree that Sinkapore doesn’t need nurses from other countries when there are locals.
HOWEVER, policy or employer wise, these Foreign Talented Nurses are a damned lot cheaper than employing Sinkapore Nurses, agree not?
ChaoCheeseBuy on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 11:10 am
XiSd,
I am not surprise that there are China doctors working as nurses here. From what I know there are also civil engineers from China doing draftman work here.
Witness on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 11:37 am
I once worked in a company that employed an Indian national for a job that is akin to accounts assistant/office boy. He graduated from a university in India.
He got the job because the big boss is Indian and his immediate supervisor is also Indian who came from the same village as him.
The Singapore workplace is being colonized and the gahmen is either clueless or blind or bochap or all of the above.
Peoples Arrogant Party on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 11:41 am
There’s nothing to be surprised about any more in Singapore…
The Emperor has no clothes on ??
The House is on fire ??
We lost S$ 55 Billion of our taxpayers’ money ??
Our population has reached the 5 million mark and we are still encouraging foreigners to set up homes here ??
Not a problem, Sir…
Not when we have the HIGHEST PAID Government Ministers in the world and the BEST Spin Doctors in the Universe to take care of things…
XIIIblackcat on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 11:55 am
When we are talking about healthcare, shouldn’t we be wanting the BEST and only the best out of it? Healthcare is not a sector to be compromised. Give the job to the person who fit the bill more (careful, caring, hardworking…) and not the cheapest. Despite them been foreigners a not.
Isn’t it suppose to be this case?
George on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 11:57 am
People are inherently selfish. Americans love to work in Singapore but complain when Singaporeans try to get jobs in the US. Brits think it is a one way street. Some Brits working in Asia even belong to the racist British National Party. Ang Moh women in Singapore complain about Ang Moh men dating or marrying locals. But many of them are too prejudiced to date or marry even a successful Singaporeans. And we can talk for a long time about the Aussies loving their expat jobs in Asia but complain about Asians working in Australia. Singaporeans are no different. They love to work abroad, but dont like foreigners working in Singapore. Guess it is human nature!
XiSd Tay on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 12:00 pm
XIIIblackcat said: Isn’t it suppose to be this case?
Technically speaking, YES. BUT then, the welfare of the famiLEE comes first and they would rather save the MONEY and have it in THEIR pcokets than spending it on YOU and other Lesser Mortals.
Kim Jong Il on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 12:05 pm
@singaporean on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 10:38 am
I’m a Singaporean.
What I meant in the above comment is:
The reason I expect to hear FROM PAP:
Singaporeans are choosy. They are are not willing to take the job as Clinic assistant because of low pay and the job is too tough for them. We need foreign workers like Ma Yuqing to fill up this gap.
XiSd Tay on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 12:10 pm
ChaoCheeseBuy said: I am not surprise that there are China doctors working as nurses here. From what I know there are also civil engineers from China doing draftman work here.
Well, not surprising again, I know of Chinese PROs working as wives in SInkapore
Anonymous on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 12:54 pm
On the one hand, it pains to see Singapore slowly sinking like that, one the other hand, perhaps Singapore should sink so that Singaporeans will wake up and do something to our government. I just hope whatever is being done, it will not be too late.
Most Singaporeans are bo-chap because they are still OK. It does not affect them. When it does affect them, it is too late.
FT doc are here already on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 1:12 pm
Who say FT cannot become doctors?
I was at TTSH a few weeks ago, the doctor attended to me is from Philippines.
Also, I heard there are quite a few doctors from India working at IMH.
cy on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 1:20 pm
we should be absorbing foreigners who can increase our productivity by increasing our technological power.
how is a China clinical assistant more productive than a singapore clinical assistant?
China should not export its unemployment problem to singapore. we are simply too small to absorb it.
XiSd Tay on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 1:35 pm
FT Doc, nobody said FTs cannot be doctors. I said chinese with a doctor degree from China working as Staff Nurse.
XiSd Tay on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 1:37 pm
Cy said:
1. we should be absorbing foreigners who can increase our productivity by increasing our technological power.
True, agreed.
2. how is a China clinical assistant more productive than a singapore clinical assistant?
Imagine a chinese with a doctors degree working as a nurse?
Richard Tan on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 1:39 pm
Singapore Government actually don’t have any idea what Singapore lack on what kind of talent.
Actually we only need general workers like in construction that really no Singaporean wanted to do. But Supervisor, Engineer and Project Manager, there are a lot of Singaporean willing to work. Then why there are so many FT to took over our job? Food court operator FT, now hawker centre store operator also can see FT open food store and sell food that are not nice to eat.
What happen to Singapore?
Are we going to go back to the old days? Where our Grand father come from China to Singapore to work and settle down here as their homeland. Will this FT treat Singapore their home land or just a place that earn and make money.
sturmtruppen on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 2:09 pm
….and who will finally pay in the end for all this…
the citizens of the singapore from the inane policies of this supposely democratic gov’t who treat its citizens not as fellow human beings…but living batteries…once used, can just discard…
can any self-respecting decent human being accept this?
Is this a gov’t we really wanted in the first place>
Is this a gov’t who deserve our loyalty, our respect and our trust?
I don’t think so….it seems they don’t care about our children and our childrens future in singapore…
it seems their children are more important then their fellow citizens childrens…
are we gonna allow them to continue dishing this forever?
Play me for a fool once, it is okay…play me for a fool twice it is my fault for believing….play me for a fool thrice, fine all bets are off….i am coming for YOU.
wj on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 2:33 pm
She couldn’t pay the fine, and taxpayers will pay for her 4 weeks stay in changi resort. After which, she will continue working here in singapore. Why couldn’t we deport her and bar her from Singapore, rather than keeping a character with an apparent lack of integrity here.
integra on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 5:05 pm
I’m not s’porean but I can’t help feeling sorry for you guys. I would never have thought that Singapore a 1st world country would treat their own citizens second class.
But a problem isn’t a problem if there is no solution.I just don’t think hiding and complaining behind your computer screens is a solution at all.
sturmtruppen on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 6:07 pm
The problem is i cannot vote every time GE comes around because the GRC ward i am in is a walk-over GRC ward…so pap automatically win…and this GRC can adjust by PAP…
and i have the solution which is to put my vote away from PAP gov’t but how when i can’t even exercise by basic human right to vote as a human being…
Integra…we want to use the solutions but the political playing field is not a level playing field.
Sad.
Grim Reaver on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 8:54 pm
Even for construction job, if its paid like in other 1st world countries, I believe there will be Singaporeans who wants to work.
The last time I was in New Zealand a few years back, I saw that the workers building the roads were “Ang Mo”
Construction job in Sg is lowly paid, I think is $30 / day. Some jobs are just low pay. But some like construction is low pay & highly taxing physically. Which Singaporean will want such a job? Be security guard also earn more & do less.
Yes, this changing of GRC boundaries as their whim & fancy is sickening. Its just cheap.
About FT. Also heard from a relative in the medical sales line that thses days, they like to hire Filipino with Doctor Certs as medical sales rep. So there goes another once decent paying job.
Sydney on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 9:52 pm
You are so racist.
Economist on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 10:39 pm
HE WHO PAYS THE PIPER CALLS THE TUNE.
Oh Singaporeans – the world doesn’t owe us a living.
Clean the table tops lah at hawker centres. Work cheap lah at Ayer Rajah (see our Indian PRs). Be waiters & waitresses lah.
Okay. After a few days. I quit and live off my parents.
How? The country will collapse.
George on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 10:41 pm
Interesting comments so far! While I had said that attitudes are similar regarding migrants around the world, there is one difference between Asians and Ang Mohs when it comes to migration. Ang Mohs prefer Ang Moh migration and attack Asian and other non-white migration into their country. Entire organizations have been set up to fight non-white immigration into the US, whether skilled or unskilled. These include the Center for Immigration Studies, Federation of American Immigration Reform and to the more extreme, American Renaissance, VDare and Minutemen. However, a difference between them and people posting on this board is clearly evident. Singaporeans seem to be having more of a beef with Asian foreign talent and Asian migrants in general and tend to be generally neutral on Ang Moh foreign talent…may be because other Asians tend to put down roots while the Ang Mohs leave after a stint? Or is it something else?
Time for Change on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 11:11 pm
One thing that really sucks is how true blue Singaporean single mothers cannot get the baby bonus while foreign mothers who have accepted Singapore citizenship but are here temporarily can get it. These Singaporean mothers are made to struggle to bring up their children while these foreign mothers lap it up in luxury. Yet the sons of these single mothers are expected to sacrifice their lives for this country. Where is the justice??? Where is the justice???
Lehman brothers on Thu, 1st Oct 2009 11:18 pm
//George
It’s because Ang Mohs don’t move to Singapore for the sake of vying with locals for low to mid-level jobs such as clinic assistants as is the case in this article.
It has been mentioned time and again on TR that foreigners from countries such as India and China can accept jobs with low wages because of the favourable exchange rate which allows them to support their families back home as opposed to Singaporeans who can’t. Ang Mohs can’t challenge locals for these jobs when their home currencies are likely to be stronger than the SGD.
Besides, if you’ve taken a look at the wages of truck drivers and people working in construction in Ang Moh countries, you would understand why you never see an Ang Moh working in such jobs in Singapore. That is why you don’t see Singaporeans complaining about Ang Mohs, since the ones suffering from the rapid influx of foreigners are those working in mid-level jobs.
FPC on Fri, 2nd Oct 2009 12:22 am
The election is really coming.
Better get ready.
This site would probably be shut down.
Be careful.
George on Fri, 2nd Oct 2009 12:27 am
Lehman Brothers:
I also think it is the Ang Moh is better mentality…not so much in younger generation but among the people over 40. In Singapore it is a lot less than other Asian countries..but when it comes between an Ivy League educated Chinese from Taiwan and an ordinary university educated Ang Moh, there are Singaporeans who prefer Ang Moh. Believe, me as an Ang Moh who lived in Singapore and the rest of Asia, I have seen it with my own eyes and heard such comments.
Robert on Fri, 2nd Oct 2009 5:55 am
Many Singaporeans are worried about competition for places in universities from foreigners. Restricting or even eliminating foreign students from Singapore universities is an excellent idea if in return they send all the Singapore students packing from countries such as Australia, US, UK and Canada. As far as reciprocity is enforced I have no problem. Foreigners should not be looking to study and work in Singapore as long as Singaporeans stay home!
Razak on Fri, 2nd Oct 2009 7:42 am
Just go to Little India during the weekends and you will appreciate how this little red dot contributes to the foreign reserves of India.
You’ll be shell-shocked!
luke on Fri, 2nd Oct 2009 8:45 am
Free market. For labour and goods. Maybe foreign clinic assistants are hotter?
Katrina on Fri, 2nd Oct 2009 2:01 pm
I think there are not that many Ang Mo migrants and they are not competing with the low income group. FT are stopping the wages to increase which is the main reason why Singaporeans don’t want to work there. In Western countries, the construction workers and truck drivers are paid well(can be better than teachers in Australia)and are therefore not looked down. In this case, I think it is wrong for the government to give incentives to employees to employ FTs, decreasing the number of jobs available for Singaporeans. Isn’t the government supposed to protect Singaporeans?
XiSd Tay on Fri, 2nd Oct 2009 3:26 pm
FPC said: This site would probably be shut down.
It will never happen. The site is on a FOREIGN Data Centre which is NOT under Singapore’s Jurisdiction.
To shut the site down would require taking the server offline which means suing the Data Centre in a USA Court NOT managed or run by Kangaroos.
Of course they can always ban the site and shut access to it but there are many free proxies on the Internet, not forgetting VPN.
I myself is using a paid VPN services in the states if you need one activated, just email me.
Joseph on Fri, 2nd Oct 2009 9:11 pm
I am writing from the US and I am an Ang Moh who worked in Singapore. I have some observations
“I think there are not that many Ang Mo migrants and they are not competing with the low income group. FT are stopping the wages to increase which is the main reason why Singaporeans don’t want to work there.”
With the inflation taking off in Singapore and elsewhere, would the Singaporeans be willing to pay higher prices for goods and services? You say construction workers get paid less. Already, Singapore has among the most expensive real estate markets in the world. Are you willing to pay higher rent and pay twice the amount to buy a home? Here in the US everytime the Americans say that we need to pay higher wages, I ask them whether they are willing to pay higher prices for tomatos, etc..some say yes, but then shop at a cheap neighborhood store run by Koreans. Others get mad and spew out vitriol. They have no comeback.
“In Western countries, the construction workers and truck drivers are paid well(can be better than teachers in Australia)and are therefore not looked down.”
That is the biggest problem in America. As a result our education system at the pre-university level is very bad and we are not training quality Americans. Furthermore, unlike your country, everytime there is a recession, we slash education budgets and after recovery end up hiring foreigners. The anti-immigration groups have nothing to say about not training Americans now as a result of budget cuts, but will be back in 2012, when we hire foreigners..”we need to train more Americans,” they will say..of course they wont protest budget cuts..their priority is different..they dont mind jobs leaving the shores of our country, they are afraid of Ang Mohs becoming a minority! They want Ang Mohs in a majority even if they go hungry with no jobs.
One more thing, most Americans will disagree with you that US construction jobs pay well..truckers, may be..but not construction.
“In this case, I think it is wrong for the government to give incentives to employees to employ FTs, decreasing the number of jobs available for Singaporeans. Isn’t the government supposed to protect Singaporeans?”
Wrong. 60% or Singapore employment is by Ang Moh or Japanese/Korean multinationals. All most care about is low wages everywhere and keeping prices low for consumers back home in the Ang Moh lands. Get it out of your skulls. One less foreigner does not mean one more Singaporean employed at a high wage..that is what we thought in America and many thought in Germany and Japan. One less migrant means one less job in Singapore, and in some respect may mean loss of three or more jobs..it happened here in the US…they cant get a visa for a Chinese, they move that job to Singapore with the Chinese..they just moved two Indians to Singapore because they could not get a visa here. This means these Indians and Chinese will be paying taxes in Singapore adding to the coffers of Singaporeans…meanwhile we will loose the revenue in America and we may have cuts in our social security and medicare. This happened in Germany in the 1990s, but our stupid politicians led by Senator Grassley of Iowa did not learn their lessons..dont underestimate the brains of your leaders. The unemployment rate calculation methodology is the same across the world. In Singapore, with the worst recession it is still at 3.5%, while in the US it is at 9.8% and in Germany it was closer to 12% in 2005. This despite Singapore admitting more foreign talent than the US per capita and Germany admitting none. This is called globalization. Jobs go where the employer can hire who they want…they hold the cards. If the government tinkers with that you will end up like the US with 7.6 million jobs lost and 9.8% unemployment.
Mah Na Bo Le' on Sat, 3rd Oct 2009 11:00 am
## George
Wrong on all three counts in your postings.
Singaporeans are the most welcoming people to foreigners / other nationals in Asia b’cos we ourselves basically come from migrant stock.
Did you hear of any wide scale complaints by Singaporeans about foreigners as short as just 3 years ago ??
The present problem is created by the PAP Government opening the floodgates in recent years to foreign labour, foreign talents and giving away citizenships too cheaply.
In hard times when Singaporeans are loosing their jobs by the thousands, middle-low level jobs (like clinic assistants) whcih can be easily filled by locals are now filled by a foreigner. Part of the reason this has happened is because there is no minimum wage rule in Singapore and employers here are taking advantage of this loophole.
It just dosen’t make sense to us anymore for the PAP Government to continue relentlessly with this “foreign-import” policy and that is why you are seeing this high level of complains all over the Singapore forums / chat-rooms.
I read somewhere that we have the highest local-foreign content of any population in the world. Example :
America : 12 p/c
Singapore : 36 p/c
Out of a total population of 4.99 million, there are 3.2 mil locals (including foreign born citizens) and 1.79 foreigners (mostly foreign workers)
Do your maths on how many foreigners you will have in your own country if it had the same ration and decide for yourself whether Singaporeans have a right to get upset with the PAP Government.
George on Sat, 3rd Oct 2009 12:20 pm
Mah Na Bo Le:
You say I am wrong on every count. You cannot counter Ang Moh Joseph can you? Yes, three years ago Singaporeans were complaining about foreigners..they are welcoming of Ang Mohs..the people, not necessarily the goverrnment. Do you know which country has the highest foreign population: UAE followed by Kuwait, Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Bahrain..all with over 50% foreign population. Singapore does not even rank in the top five. So you know nothing. Singaporeans like any other Asians think Ang Mohs are better…there was a whole blog on that four years ago. So, I have done my math. You will not get any sympathy from me when your unemployment rate is 3.4% while we have a 9.8% rate. Singaporeans are just like everyone else. They love to work abroad, in places such as Dubai, Sydney, LA and London, but dont like it when foriegners work in Singapore. PAP has kept the country prosperous with two or three short recessions in between. I will also bet you PAP will win again as people vote their pocketbooks.
George on Sat, 3rd Oct 2009 12:22 pm
“Part of the reason this has happened is because there is no minimum wage rule in Singapore and employers here are taking advantage of this loophole.”
I am also pretty sure that you will love to see the employers including the Ang Moh multinationals leave for cheaper pastures of India and China..you wont be happy until unemployment hits 9.8%.
cat on Sat, 3rd Oct 2009 12:28 pm
//George
//PAP has kept the country prosperous with two or three short recessions in between.
…at the expense (huge) of general worker.
//I will also bet you PAP will win again as people vote their pocketbooks.
…yeah but at a huge vote loss.
your pm knows that
Lehman brothers on Sat, 3rd Oct 2009 1:01 pm
//Joseph
“With the inflation taking off in Singapore and elsewhere, would the Singaporeans be willing to pay higher prices for goods and services? You say construction workers get paid less. Already, Singapore has among the most expensive real estate markets in the world. Are you willing to pay higher rent and pay twice the amount to buy a home? Here in the US everytime the Americans say that we need to pay higher wages, I ask them whether they are willing to pay higher prices for tomatos, etc..some say yes, but then shop at a cheap neighborhood store run by Koreans. Others get mad and spew out vitriol. They have no comeback.”
If the growth in wages is higher than the inflation rate, I don’t see why anyone would be against it. Of course people will shop at the cheapest stores since it’s available. If the Korean store is forced to pay the same wages as their American counterparts, their prices will go up to the same level as American stores, and everyone will shop at the American stores except this time with higher wages. What’s your point here?
I think you have the wrong idea of how the construction market works in Singapore. Read the other articles on TR and you’ll know that a large percentage of construction costs come from the cost of land and the mark-up charged by the HDB. Raising the wages of construction workers will not amount to much inflation in terms of construction costs. Furthermore the slight inflation in real estate will be more than mitigated by the higher pay received. What will happen is that the rich will end up paying more for their housing while the poor will pay less relative to their wages. I don’t see how this would be a bad outcome.
“That is the biggest problem in America. As a result our education system at the pre-university level is very bad and we are not training quality Americans. Furthermore, unlike your country, everytime there is a recession, we slash education budgets and after recovery end up hiring foreigners. The anti-immigration groups have nothing to say about not training Americans now as a result of budget cuts, but will be back in 2012, when we hire foreigners..”we need to train more Americans,” they will say..of course they wont protest budget cuts..their priority is different..they dont mind jobs leaving the shores of our country, they are afraid of Ang Mohs becoming a minority! They want Ang Mohs in a majority even if they go hungry with no jobs.
One more thing, most Americans will disagree with you that US construction jobs pay well..truckers, may be..but not construction.”
Nobody is talking about making construction jobs or truckers as prestigious as white collar workers. We are talking solely about allowing their wages to be at their normal levels instead of artificially suppressing them by hiring cheap foreign labour. If, as you said, construction is not a well-paying job in USA, then I rest my case. If USA has such a low percentage of immigrants and yet construction is not as prestigious as white-collar jobs, then there is no reason to believe that restricting foreign construction workers will open the floodgates in Singapore and cause local students to avoid university education or lead to massive inflation as you said. What it would do is allow construction workers in Singapore to have a fairer wage and a decent standard of living.
“Wrong. 60% or Singapore employment is by Ang Moh or Japanese/Korean multinationals. All most care about is low wages everywhere and keeping prices low for consumers back home in the Ang Moh lands. Get it out of your skulls. One less foreigner does not mean one more Singaporean employed at a high wage..that is what we thought in America and many thought in Germany and Japan. One less migrant means one less job in Singapore, and in some respect may mean loss of three or more jobs..it happened here in the US…they cant get a visa for a Chinese, they move that job to Singapore with the Chinese..they just moved two Indians to Singapore because they could not get a visa here. This means these Indians and Chinese will be paying taxes in Singapore adding to the coffers of Singaporeans…meanwhile we will loose the revenue in America and we may have cuts in our social security and medicare. This happened in Germany in the 1990s, but our stupid politicians led by Senator Grassley of Iowa did not learn their lessons..dont underestimate the brains of your leaders. The unemployment rate calculation methodology is the same across the world. In Singapore, with the worst recession it is still at 3.5%, while in the US it is at 9.8% and in Germany it was closer to 12% in 2005. This despite Singapore admitting more foreign talent than the US per capita and Germany admitting none. This is called globalization. Jobs go where the employer can hire who they want…they hold the cards. If the government tinkers with that you will end up like the US with 7.6 million jobs lost and 9.8% unemployment.”
If a company has to depend on paying low wages for its profits, then there is no point in Singapore trying to attract such a company. There is no way for Singapore to compete with Indonesia, Malaysia, or China with regard to wages. If Singapore tried to do that, it would have to keep on artificially reducing wages by hiring more and more foreign labour. What Singapore should do instead is to attract companies in high-value industries that are dependent on having a skilled workforce.
The government could have, or should have, reacted to globalization by building up a strong external sector with homegrown companies. I don’t know where you got the 60% figure from, but more than half of Singapore’s GDP comes from government-owned entities. Local SMEs should have been allowed to grow instead of being forced out by state monopolies.
Sure, the numbers may state that Singapore has a low unemployment. But what is the unemployment rate among Singaporeans, not including PRs? We don’t know because these numbers will never be released by the statistics board. I would imagine that it is probably as high as the US considering that the unemployment rate around PRs has to be lower than that of ordinary Singaporeans else the former won’t even be here. If the artificial suppression of wages were to be removed, overall unemployment will definitely increase, but the unemployment rate among Singaporeans will decrease while the wage rate will increase as well.
Lehman brothers on Sat, 3rd Oct 2009 1:17 pm
//George on Sat, 3rd Oct 2009 12:20 pm
It all goes back to what I pointed out in my earlier reply to you. I said that Singaporeans with high-level jobs will not care about FTs coming in when they can still keep their jobs. The only ones who care are the low and mid level workers whose jobs are being taken away.
In the same way, Singaporeans with high-level jobs love to work overseas in Dubai, Sydney, London, and NY. The ones who don’t like it when foreigners come to work in Singapore are those who cannot afford to go overseas. This is the same everywhere. There is nothing wrong with embracing globalisatioin. What is wrong is the relentless pursuit of growth without paying special consideration to the less fortunate, and that includes making sure that they are able to find jobs that allow them to live decently. By all means, look at Singapore’s GDP and say that the PAP has done a good job overall. Take a look at the streets of Singapore and see how many poor people there are in the heartlands and you’ll change your mind.
I have no idea why everyone who is in support of the pro-foreigner policy always brings up the example of the UAE. There are ample articles on TR to distinguish Singapore and UAE. While UAE has a very large proportion of foreigners, those foreigners will always remain foreigners. The locals in UAE will always be given preferential treatment by their government. Some Singaporeans on a work permit in UAE have posted in the other articles and concurred. The problem in Singapore comes when the government places priority on foreigners by spending S$10 million on helping them to integrate or giving them free English classes when the resources could have been used to help the poor.
Neil Bishop on Sat, 3rd Oct 2009 8:01 pm
You folks don’t get it. We hire foreigners because we know they will come to work for the next one or two years. I cannot tell you how many times:
1. I have hired a Singaporean and they haven’t even turned up for their first day at work (and no courtesy call, either);
2. a Singaporean has lasted one or two days; or
3. a Singaporean has accepted a job paying 100 dollars a month more.
And clearly being a doctor is a good job in Singapore because of the enormous number of MCs that need to be issued every Monday and Friday!
Singapore actually needs a few years of recession so that the locals regain the work ethic of 20/30 years ago otherwise Singaporeans will continue to be left behind.
George on Sat, 3rd Oct 2009 8:22 pm
“If the Korean store is forced to pay the same wages as their American counterparts, their prices will go up to the same level as American stores, and everyone will shop at the American stores except this time with higher wages. What’s your point here?”
When prices rise above productivity it is called inflation and there is something called Fed which will raise interest rates creating more unemployment. Learn your economics.
“Nobody is talking about making construction jobs or truckers as prestigious as white collar workers.”
Obviously you have not heard of CIS, FAIR and other anti-immigrant groups in America.
“I don’t know where you got the 60% figure from, but more than half of Singapore’s GDP comes from government-owned entities.”
Private sector.
“If the artificial suppression of wages were to be removed, overall unemployment will definitely increase, but the unemployment rate among Singaporeans will decrease while the wage rate will increase as well.”
Ask any German or European..they all get paid high minimum wages. Singaporean unemployment is far lower than that of US citizens or German citizens.
Joseph on Sat, 3rd Oct 2009 8:23 pm
Lehman Brothers sounds like an anti-immigrant American. He sounds like many I have heard before.
George on Sat, 3rd Oct 2009 8:36 pm
“The government could have, or should have, reacted to globalization by building up a strong external sector with homegrown companies.”
Japanese and the US did that amd guess where the jobs are? You guessed it right..Singapore, Malaysia, Hong Kong, Australia and other Asian countries. You are deluding yourself if you think Singapore government will stay at home if you force them to pay higher wages. If you force them to stay they will just fold up and disappear as one of our corporations Circuit City did unemploying 80,000 Americans…liquidation. So there is no easy answer particularly for Singapore, and ranting by this blog and paper will not solve the problem..end of story!
Lehman brothers on Sat, 3rd Oct 2009 11:38 pm
//George on Sat, 3rd Oct 2009 8:22 pm
“When prices rise above productivity it is called inflation and there is something called Fed which will raise interest rates creating more unemployment. Learn your economics.”
Inflation is a sustained increase in prices and has nothing to do with productivity. If the Korean store is able to maintain lower prices purely because it pays its employees below the wage rate, then it has no place in the US economy, simple as that. An increase in the prices of the Korean store is not going to affect the CPI at all since its weight is so small.
Besides, productivity in Singapore has fallen as can be seen from the falling GDP per capita due to the influx of foreign workers in unskilled jobs that could have been filled by Singaporeans. Inflation has also gone up because of the increased demand for household items. With a restriction on foreign workers, productivity will go back up and inflation will fall back down. I’ve already pointed out that wages account for a small percentage of the input prices in Singapore as compared to the high mark-ups involved. YOU learn your economics.
“Obviously you have not heard of CIS, FAIR and other anti-immigrant groups in America.”
How is this relevant to Singapore at all? I’m talking about Singaporeans who are complaining about construction jobs not paying enough in Singapore because foreign workers are forcing down wages. Again, no one is asking for construction jobs to be as prestigious as white collar jobs. Singaporeans are merely asking for these jobs to allow a citizen to make a decent living to support his family.
“Private sector.”
Point noted.
“Ask any German or European..they all get paid high minimum wages. Singaporean unemployment is far lower than that of US citizens or German citizens.”
Ask any Singapore citizens.. and I’m talking about the real Singapore citizens who hold red passports and cannot revoke their pink ICs. The unemployment rate in Singapore is always under-reported because it includes data for PRs, which will almost always be lower than that of Singaporeans.
“Japanese and the US did that amd guess where the jobs are? You guessed it right..Singapore, Malaysia, Hong Kong, Australia and other Asian countries. You are deluding yourself if you think Singapore government will stay at home if you force them to pay higher wages. If you force them to stay they will just fold up and disappear as one of our corporations Circuit City did unemploying 80,000 Americans…liquidation. So there is no easy answer particularly for Singapore, and ranting by this blog and paper will not solve the problem..end of story!”
And where did the jobs that went to Singapore go to? Foreign workers who can take those jobs because of the favourable exchange rate! How does this help Singaporeans at all? Sure, they pay taxes, but these taxes are used by the government to fund more schemes to attract foreign workers instead of helping the poor!
Times are tough right now, everyone knows that. Any company will fold if it is not efficient enough. As I said in my previous post, if a company has to rely solely on paying low wages to survivie, then it has no place in Singapore, and that includes home-grown companies. Which companies were the first to leave Singapore when the GFC hit? MNCs, like Seagate did a few months back. The ones that the country can rely on are the home-grown ones, of which Singapore has almost none.
fruit on Sat, 3rd Oct 2009 11:53 pm
I cant help justifying my frustration against employers with ‘lowest-pay’ mentality using our country’s Creative Technologies vs Apple in the mp3 market.
Creative tried to sell as ‘cheaply’ as possible while Apple stuck to its guns on its high price while delievering a product with a lifestyle marketing.
What Creative didnt realise is that people like me get ticked off by how much and quickly Creative can devalue my mp3 device. This is further exacerbated by observing creative employees not bothering to pick up the phone in the Technical support center while hearing their phone ring continuously as i wait for them inside their support center.
One could argue that they are just lazy, OR it is because they are just paid too cheaply to be dilligent.
And thinking in terms of government policies, i felt that as long as a citizen wasn’t influential or have some high net-worth, he or she would be taken as a second-class citizen to MNCs, expatriates, scholars and ministers by each and everyone of us. I cannot help noticing how ‘nice’ we talk to fair-skinned foreigners or how bosses/supervisors continually praise the diligence of a Chinese/Bangla worker. Its an asian mentality i think and it just…. staunts our own personal social growth.
Afterall, these foreign workers work out of fear of being sent back, not because of some desire for some greater good to his/her immediate socal net.
Lehman brothers on Sat, 3rd Oct 2009 11:54 pm
//George
“So there is no easy answer particularly for Singapore, and ranting by this blog and paper will not solve the problem..end of story!”
I agree that there is no easy answer for Singapore considering the limited knowledge available regarding what fiscal and labour policies should be implemented in a global recession, but it is worrying that the government seems to be losing sight of what actually matters most to Singapore – the well-being of Singaporeans.
I don’t think anyone here really believes that the PAP will listen to anything we say on this board, and much as I hate to admit it, I don’t foresee them losing their 2/3 majority in parliament over the next two elections. So treat all this as coffeeshop talk if you will, considering that there is almost no other outlet for political discourse in this so-called civil society.
//Joseph on Sat, 3rd Oct 2009 8:23 pm
And you sound like the propaganda I read every day in our 140th ranked newspaper. Ad hominem arguments sure do add value to the argument, don’t they?
Shahri on Sun, 4th Oct 2009 3:49 am
Singaporeans u complain so much but the pap will still win the election
I love my country on Wed, 7th Oct 2009 5:50 pm
Like any other regime in SEA, goodies announced near election will suay votes. Some countries u get red packets, in Singapore u get lift upgrades, covered walkways, etc.