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	<title>Comments on: Time for the young to drive the creation of a two-party system in Singapore</title>
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	<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/09/01/time-for-the-young-to-drive-the-creation-of-a-two-party-system-in-singapore/</link>
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		<title>By: btan</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/09/01/time-for-the-young-to-drive-the-creation-of-a-two-party-system-in-singapore/comment-page-3/#comment-25793</link>
		<dc:creator>btan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 09:22:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://temasekreview.com/?p=12749#comment-25793</guid>
		<description>@csl

Thanks but I&#039;m not interested to serve. We all don&#039;t have to be generals. Even the lowliest soldier can help the country by doing his part.

Regarding opposition alliance, we need to write to the following people.

1.) CST of SPP (SDA)
2.) CSJ of SDP (a bit tough for these 2 to make up but powerful symbol if they do)
3.) LTK of WP
4.) Ken Sun of NSP (ask them to rejoin)
5.) KJ of RP (heard they are joining up anyway)

It cannot be just me or you to write to them. All supporters of all parties must write to them to join up. If 10,000 letters received tells you to join up, would you be able to ignore these letters?

Regarding debate between red tape and rubber stamp. I agree. That is why there is a beauty in opposition alliance. This means opposition parties in an alliance need not vote along party lines. WP and NSP are pretty close to PAP, so on some policies, they may give them the 2/3 majority but in cases where PAP comes up with stupid rules like one-man vote, then I am sure all the opposition parties will vote no.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@csl</p>
<p>Thanks but I&#8217;m not interested to serve. We all don&#8217;t have to be generals. Even the lowliest soldier can help the country by doing his part.</p>
<p>Regarding opposition alliance, we need to write to the following people.</p>
<p>1.) CST of SPP (SDA)<br />
2.) CSJ of SDP (a bit tough for these 2 to make up but powerful symbol if they do)<br />
3.) LTK of WP<br />
4.) Ken Sun of NSP (ask them to rejoin)<br />
5.) KJ of RP (heard they are joining up anyway)</p>
<p>It cannot be just me or you to write to them. All supporters of all parties must write to them to join up. If 10,000 letters received tells you to join up, would you be able to ignore these letters?</p>
<p>Regarding debate between red tape and rubber stamp. I agree. That is why there is a beauty in opposition alliance. This means opposition parties in an alliance need not vote along party lines. WP and NSP are pretty close to PAP, so on some policies, they may give them the 2/3 majority but in cases where PAP comes up with stupid rules like one-man vote, then I am sure all the opposition parties will vote no.</p>
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		<title>By: csl</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/09/01/time-for-the-young-to-drive-the-creation-of-a-two-party-system-in-singapore/comment-page-3/#comment-25778</link>
		<dc:creator>csl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 08:28:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://temasekreview.com/?p=12749#comment-25778</guid>
		<description>btan has potential, we should tell Chiam about you or you need to go and find him. (j/k aside but you are right both sides should try to reach out to people more)

For starters we need a shadow cabinet. we do have one, formed once by LHL current one status unknown. Worse, who is in it is a mystery. Hell I do not expect them to be able to take over, I just want to know who is who and what kinds of ideas they have regarding the country. Its terrible form not being able to know, as the name implies the current shadow cabinet (SC) really &quot;shadowy&quot;.

If the opposition were to be setup I think we can start with one leader (mark PM), sMinister of Finance, sMinister of Manpower and sMinister of Foreign Affairs. If there are enough ppl add one for Defence/Education. The benefits are actually two fold, the shadow ministers will show people that there are more than 1 way to do things. 

It also allows them to focus on one area at a time. LTK as good as a MP he is, when it comes to issues like Home Affairs he is in uncharted waters. Wang Kan Sen&#039;s reply to his questions made him swallow his pride and stay quiet.

Exchanges will be more common place given the one-on-one marking and will make policy making more robust. The balance is key, too much debate becomes red-tape and too little is rubber-stamp.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>btan has potential, we should tell Chiam about you or you need to go and find him. (j/k aside but you are right both sides should try to reach out to people more)</p>
<p>For starters we need a shadow cabinet. we do have one, formed once by LHL current one status unknown. Worse, who is in it is a mystery. Hell I do not expect them to be able to take over, I just want to know who is who and what kinds of ideas they have regarding the country. Its terrible form not being able to know, as the name implies the current shadow cabinet (SC) really &#8220;shadowy&#8221;.</p>
<p>If the opposition were to be setup I think we can start with one leader (mark PM), sMinister of Finance, sMinister of Manpower and sMinister of Foreign Affairs. If there are enough ppl add one for Defence/Education. The benefits are actually two fold, the shadow ministers will show people that there are more than 1 way to do things. </p>
<p>It also allows them to focus on one area at a time. LTK as good as a MP he is, when it comes to issues like Home Affairs he is in uncharted waters. Wang Kan Sen&#8217;s reply to his questions made him swallow his pride and stay quiet.</p>
<p>Exchanges will be more common place given the one-on-one marking and will make policy making more robust. The balance is key, too much debate becomes red-tape and too little is rubber-stamp.</p>
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		<title>By: btan</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/09/01/time-for-the-young-to-drive-the-creation-of-a-two-party-system-in-singapore/comment-page-3/#comment-25768</link>
		<dc:creator>btan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Sep 2009 07:15:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://temasekreview.com/?p=12749#comment-25768</guid>
		<description>@坡仔哥哥

I disagree with some of your points.

1.) 25% to 33% of opposition needs the approval of the PEOPLE (i.e. us), not PAP. We have to break away from the mentality that PAP is the ruler.

2.) PAP sueing pants of talented opposition leaders is the reason why talented individuals do not dare to step up. That is why I advocate numbers. If you vote in 30 opposition MPs, how many do they dare to &quot;fix&quot;? All of them. Vote one in, they can sue one. Vote 30 in, if they dare to sue all of them, it would be considered a &quot;massacre&quot; and PAP will get spit on by citizens and international community at best. Something like operation coldstore can never happen without repercussion in this connected world.

3.) The role of opposition is to form shadow cabinet to check on the ruling government. Yes. However, who will be the opposition and who will be the ruling government will depend on performance. If PAP wakes up and perform, they can be the government but never the overwhelming govt like now. At best give them 55% to 65% of MPs (they only have 66.6% mandate as it is and too many MPs). However, if the opposition alliance is a better performer, then naturally they should be the next government. I don&#039;t see what is wrong with this. PAP can then be the new opposition with 45% mandate.

4.) I want to be very clear, so you can understand. We should strive to have 55% govt, 45% oppos. This could be :

a.) 55% PAP, 45% alliance OR
b.) 55% alliance, 45% PAP

By the way, all these talks are too premature. The very first baby step is for supporters to do something (donate, spread awareness) and for opposition party to form alliance and capture 1 or 2 GRCs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@坡仔哥哥</p>
<p>I disagree with some of your points.</p>
<p>1.) 25% to 33% of opposition needs the approval of the PEOPLE (i.e. us), not PAP. We have to break away from the mentality that PAP is the ruler.</p>
<p>2.) PAP sueing pants of talented opposition leaders is the reason why talented individuals do not dare to step up. That is why I advocate numbers. If you vote in 30 opposition MPs, how many do they dare to &#8220;fix&#8221;? All of them. Vote one in, they can sue one. Vote 30 in, if they dare to sue all of them, it would be considered a &#8220;massacre&#8221; and PAP will get spit on by citizens and international community at best. Something like operation coldstore can never happen without repercussion in this connected world.</p>
<p>3.) The role of opposition is to form shadow cabinet to check on the ruling government. Yes. However, who will be the opposition and who will be the ruling government will depend on performance. If PAP wakes up and perform, they can be the government but never the overwhelming govt like now. At best give them 55% to 65% of MPs (they only have 66.6% mandate as it is and too many MPs). However, if the opposition alliance is a better performer, then naturally they should be the next government. I don&#8217;t see what is wrong with this. PAP can then be the new opposition with 45% mandate.</p>
<p>4.) I want to be very clear, so you can understand. We should strive to have 55% govt, 45% oppos. This could be :</p>
<p>a.) 55% PAP, 45% alliance OR<br />
b.) 55% alliance, 45% PAP</p>
<p>By the way, all these talks are too premature. The very first baby step is for supporters to do something (donate, spread awareness) and for opposition party to form alliance and capture 1 or 2 GRCs.</p>
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		<title>By: 坡仔哥哥</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/09/01/time-for-the-young-to-drive-the-creation-of-a-two-party-system-in-singapore/comment-page-3/#comment-25461</link>
		<dc:creator>坡仔哥哥</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Sep 2009 06:26:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://temasekreview.com/?p=12749#comment-25461</guid>
		<description>@btan, 

1. The existence of any Opposition needs the silent approval of PAP,even if it is 25% or 30%. 

PAP needs to be comfortable, confident that an oppoisiton will appease the public, will improve its current standing. 

- At the current political atmosphere, even if there is talent, they will not risk their careers in opposition party.

- The current rules of the game (election terms and conditions and also the current judiciary) are set by PAP

- They will not sue the pants off each and every talented opposition leader.

2. The Role of the Oppostion needs to be clear - an alternaive voice and check and balance. NOT to get rid of PAP.

3. PAP themselves will improve (complacency, clarity of roles and people policies) with the emergence of a credible opposition.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@btan, </p>
<p>1. The existence of any Opposition needs the silent approval of PAP,even if it is 25% or 30%. </p>
<p>PAP needs to be comfortable, confident that an oppoisiton will appease the public, will improve its current standing. </p>
<p>- At the current political atmosphere, even if there is talent, they will not risk their careers in opposition party.</p>
<p>- The current rules of the game (election terms and conditions and also the current judiciary) are set by PAP</p>
<p>- They will not sue the pants off each and every talented opposition leader.</p>
<p>2. The Role of the Oppostion needs to be clear &#8211; an alternaive voice and check and balance. NOT to get rid of PAP.</p>
<p>3. PAP themselves will improve (complacency, clarity of roles and people policies) with the emergence of a credible opposition.</p>
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		<title>By: cy</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/09/01/time-for-the-young-to-drive-the-creation-of-a-two-party-system-in-singapore/comment-page-3/#comment-25339</link>
		<dc:creator>cy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 12:29:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://temasekreview.com/?p=12749#comment-25339</guid>
		<description>pap is like blue chip but this blue chip revenue and profits are dropping slowly.

opposition is like small cap company, unknown and unstable revenue and profit but with potential for growth.

a two party system would be like having two stable blue chips which can grow revenue and profits for us the stakeholders</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>pap is like blue chip but this blue chip revenue and profits are dropping slowly.</p>
<p>opposition is like small cap company, unknown and unstable revenue and profit but with potential for growth.</p>
<p>a two party system would be like having two stable blue chips which can grow revenue and profits for us the stakeholders</p>
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		<title>By: cy</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/09/01/time-for-the-young-to-drive-the-creation-of-a-two-party-system-in-singapore/comment-page-3/#comment-25338</link>
		<dc:creator>cy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 12:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://temasekreview.com/?p=12749#comment-25338</guid>
		<description>i support btan&#039;s proposals</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i support btan&#8217;s proposals</p>
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		<title>By: btan</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/09/01/time-for-the-young-to-drive-the-creation-of-a-two-party-system-in-singapore/comment-page-3/#comment-25322</link>
		<dc:creator>btan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 11:08:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://temasekreview.com/?p=12749#comment-25322</guid>
		<description>@坡仔哥哥

1. I strongly believe Singapore is ready. Singapore actually has many smart people. Some has left the country, this is called brain drain because only yes-men are encouraged to stay. Liberalise it and some of the truly talented ones will return and those who wants to serve (but not serve under PAP) will step out. There is no lack of passion, except now they have been channeled to other areas. The mass media has brainwashed the people into thinking we are talentless, needs foreign talents etc... it is a vicious cycle. Think of it as an abusive parents who everyday scold their own children useless and say other children are better. If you have such a parents, won&#039;t you just keep quiet and &quot;proof&quot; that your parent is correct (&quot;You say I useless, I useless lor...&quot;)

2. It depends on what do you mean by &quot;shit hits the fan&quot;. PAP bring in army? PAP does another operation coldstore?

3. I hope to see (assuming two elections has passed) that we have about 25% to 35% of MPs in parliament to be opposition. If PAP wakes up, they will truly know we the citizens are pissed and work hard to please us, not the foreigners, not themselves. With more opposition MPs, their voices will not drown out. I hope to see a shadow government by then, ready to take over. I hope to see opposition&#039;s plan on how they can take over as government if we the voters chose it. If PAP still use their old dirty tricks to sue and jail opposition MPs, we the voters have to vote in MORE MPs. PAP cannot jail every opposition MPs without incurring wrath from their western allies. Unlike Myanmar, Singapore cannot ignore the world.

By then, if citizens have complain, they can voice out through PAP or opposition MPs. The competition will ENSURE they will listen to us and do something. Anyone who has deaf ears will earn less votes. I&#039;m sure opposition with something to lose will wake up. Also, more able people will join opposition if it becomes less of a stigma and more of a choice. Fewer yes-men can also join PAP and change that party to become what it was originally like. The People&#039;s ACTION Party, not the Pay-And-Pay party.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@坡仔哥哥</p>
<p>1. I strongly believe Singapore is ready. Singapore actually has many smart people. Some has left the country, this is called brain drain because only yes-men are encouraged to stay. Liberalise it and some of the truly talented ones will return and those who wants to serve (but not serve under PAP) will step out. There is no lack of passion, except now they have been channeled to other areas. The mass media has brainwashed the people into thinking we are talentless, needs foreign talents etc&#8230; it is a vicious cycle. Think of it as an abusive parents who everyday scold their own children useless and say other children are better. If you have such a parents, won&#8217;t you just keep quiet and &#8220;proof&#8221; that your parent is correct (&#8221;You say I useless, I useless lor&#8230;&#8221;)</p>
<p>2. It depends on what do you mean by &#8220;shit hits the fan&#8221;. PAP bring in army? PAP does another operation coldstore?</p>
<p>3. I hope to see (assuming two elections has passed) that we have about 25% to 35% of MPs in parliament to be opposition. If PAP wakes up, they will truly know we the citizens are pissed and work hard to please us, not the foreigners, not themselves. With more opposition MPs, their voices will not drown out. I hope to see a shadow government by then, ready to take over. I hope to see opposition&#8217;s plan on how they can take over as government if we the voters chose it. If PAP still use their old dirty tricks to sue and jail opposition MPs, we the voters have to vote in MORE MPs. PAP cannot jail every opposition MPs without incurring wrath from their western allies. Unlike Myanmar, Singapore cannot ignore the world.</p>
<p>By then, if citizens have complain, they can voice out through PAP or opposition MPs. The competition will ENSURE they will listen to us and do something. Anyone who has deaf ears will earn less votes. I&#8217;m sure opposition with something to lose will wake up. Also, more able people will join opposition if it becomes less of a stigma and more of a choice. Fewer yes-men can also join PAP and change that party to become what it was originally like. The People&#8217;s ACTION Party, not the Pay-And-Pay party.</p>
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		<title>By: 坡仔哥哥</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/09/01/time-for-the-young-to-drive-the-creation-of-a-two-party-system-in-singapore/comment-page-3/#comment-25286</link>
		<dc:creator>坡仔哥哥</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 08:15:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://temasekreview.com/?p=12749#comment-25286</guid>
		<description>@btan...even though I like what you said and how u said it...please convince me further...

1. Is Singapore Ready for your proposal? Why do u say so?

2. Assuming we go your way....in the event of &quot;shit hits the fan...&quot; what is your proposal?

3. What is your vision for Singapore (not PAP or any opposition party) by 2020?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@btan&#8230;even though I like what you said and how u said it&#8230;please convince me further&#8230;</p>
<p>1. Is Singapore Ready for your proposal? Why do u say so?</p>
<p>2. Assuming we go your way&#8230;.in the event of &#8220;shit hits the fan&#8230;&#8221; what is your proposal?</p>
<p>3. What is your vision for Singapore (not PAP or any opposition party) by 2020?</p>
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		<title>By: Mang Ka Li</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/09/01/time-for-the-young-to-drive-the-creation-of-a-two-party-system-in-singapore/comment-page-3/#comment-25258</link>
		<dc:creator>Mang Ka Li</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 06:32:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://temasekreview.com/?p=12749#comment-25258</guid>
		<description>Big Singh on Wed, 2nd Sep 2009 12:30 am 

You again - Big Stick.

Hi Big Stcik every one wil say &quot;Byee . . Byee. . &quot; when the time comes. Even the one ith the biggest STICK.

Whilst PM Lee Hsien Loong is sitting at the Istana fortunately or unfortunately you&#039;re standing outside Raffles Hotel. Anyway, if you want &quot;plenty of money&quot; then get a double-first at Cambridge University.

PM Lee doesn&#039;t need to sport an Osama beard and wear a turban to prove he&#039;s not &quot;a sissy.&quot; Anyway, it would be interesting to look at your &#039;A&#039; level results or what Universty degree you have i.e. if you indeed have one to verify the GREY matter you have up there.

Yes. &quot;The future belongs to our young men and ladies, time for them to act and learn from the mistakes of their parents and elders.&quot; But please remember this is not Kalistan. And Singapore&#039;s not India.

We&#039;re only a FRIST world country without any natural resources and size governed by the PAP for the past 44 good years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Big Singh on Wed, 2nd Sep 2009 12:30 am </p>
<p>You again &#8211; Big Stick.</p>
<p>Hi Big Stcik every one wil say &#8220;Byee . . Byee. . &#8221; when the time comes. Even the one ith the biggest STICK.</p>
<p>Whilst PM Lee Hsien Loong is sitting at the Istana fortunately or unfortunately you&#8217;re standing outside Raffles Hotel. Anyway, if you want &#8220;plenty of money&#8221; then get a double-first at Cambridge University.</p>
<p>PM Lee doesn&#8217;t need to sport an Osama beard and wear a turban to prove he&#8217;s not &#8220;a sissy.&#8221; Anyway, it would be interesting to look at your &#8216;A&#8217; level results or what Universty degree you have i.e. if you indeed have one to verify the GREY matter you have up there.</p>
<p>Yes. &#8220;The future belongs to our young men and ladies, time for them to act and learn from the mistakes of their parents and elders.&#8221; But please remember this is not Kalistan. And Singapore&#8217;s not India.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re only a FRIST world country without any natural resources and size governed by the PAP for the past 44 good years.</p>
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		<title>By: btan</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/09/01/time-for-the-young-to-drive-the-creation-of-a-two-party-system-in-singapore/comment-page-3/#comment-25248</link>
		<dc:creator>btan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Sep 2009 06:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://temasekreview.com/?p=12749#comment-25248</guid>
		<description>@ 坡仔哥哥

&quot;Overthrow&quot; is the wrong word to use. As it gives the connotation that it is done illegal. What I proposed is the lawful way.

My own personal objective is to see a viable two party system. On the one hand, it is PAP (a reformed one, hopefully not headed by any of the Lee family) and on the other hand is the united alliance (comprising of WP, SDP, SDA, RP, NSP).

One side should have 45% MPs in parliament and the other side should have 55% MPs. Why these numbers? This is because it just takes 5% (about 4 - 5 MPs == one GRC) to swing the government between PAP and Alliance (It can&#039;t very well be &quot;opposition&quot; if it became a government right?)

This is a GOOD thing. Why? This means the new PAP and the Alliance will fight HARD to serve us, the people. Not the other way round. Laws cannot be passed any winny-nilly as a 2/3 majority is required.

We also don&#039;t want to kick PAP out and the Alliance becomes like the PAP. This would be very stupid of us. If we ever get a two-party system we must NEVER let any single party or alliance become dominant like PAP is now.

That said, such a scenario cannot be achieved overnight. It would be too sudden. The opposition must be given time and space to grow. A victory of ONE GRC will do that. (If you read romance of the three kingdoms, the 3 kingdoms did not sprung up overnight. It took the victory of one night in Red Cliff to cause a snowball effect)

One opposition alliance wins a GRC in next election, they should aim for slightly more than 33% in the next election. Why? Because a law needs 2/3 majority to do that. Achieving that more than 1/3 numbers in MPs will prevent PAP to pass stupid laws like &quot;one-man protest&quot;.

In the 3rd election (15-20 years from now), opposition alliance should aim for 45% of parliamentary seats. If PAP still have not wake up and still trying to &quot;fix&quot; the opposition instead of listening to the people, would you want to still keep them in power?

If PAP wakes up, give opposition 45% and let them keep 55%. This way we have achived a check and balance system.

Like the opposition voters in Potong Pasir and Hougang, we have to be steadfast and not be afraid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ 坡仔哥哥</p>
<p>&#8220;Overthrow&#8221; is the wrong word to use. As it gives the connotation that it is done illegal. What I proposed is the lawful way.</p>
<p>My own personal objective is to see a viable two party system. On the one hand, it is PAP (a reformed one, hopefully not headed by any of the Lee family) and on the other hand is the united alliance (comprising of WP, SDP, SDA, RP, NSP).</p>
<p>One side should have 45% MPs in parliament and the other side should have 55% MPs. Why these numbers? This is because it just takes 5% (about 4 &#8211; 5 MPs == one GRC) to swing the government between PAP and Alliance (It can&#8217;t very well be &#8220;opposition&#8221; if it became a government right?)</p>
<p>This is a GOOD thing. Why? This means the new PAP and the Alliance will fight HARD to serve us, the people. Not the other way round. Laws cannot be passed any winny-nilly as a 2/3 majority is required.</p>
<p>We also don&#8217;t want to kick PAP out and the Alliance becomes like the PAP. This would be very stupid of us. If we ever get a two-party system we must NEVER let any single party or alliance become dominant like PAP is now.</p>
<p>That said, such a scenario cannot be achieved overnight. It would be too sudden. The opposition must be given time and space to grow. A victory of ONE GRC will do that. (If you read romance of the three kingdoms, the 3 kingdoms did not sprung up overnight. It took the victory of one night in Red Cliff to cause a snowball effect)</p>
<p>One opposition alliance wins a GRC in next election, they should aim for slightly more than 33% in the next election. Why? Because a law needs 2/3 majority to do that. Achieving that more than 1/3 numbers in MPs will prevent PAP to pass stupid laws like &#8220;one-man protest&#8221;.</p>
<p>In the 3rd election (15-20 years from now), opposition alliance should aim for 45% of parliamentary seats. If PAP still have not wake up and still trying to &#8220;fix&#8221; the opposition instead of listening to the people, would you want to still keep them in power?</p>
<p>If PAP wakes up, give opposition 45% and let them keep 55%. This way we have achived a check and balance system.</p>
<p>Like the opposition voters in Potong Pasir and Hougang, we have to be steadfast and not be afraid.</p>
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