One non-combat death a month: is this acceptable?

July 4, 2009 by admin
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73 Comments on "One non-combat death a month: is this acceptable?"

Moonshine on Sat, 4th Jul 2009 5:27 pm

actually people die all the time in accidents. but what upsets people is the fact that ns is mandatory. i do believe that most of the young are anti-establishment. they see foreigners come in and occupy places in local unis, jobs taken up. and worse is that these foreigners are perceived to be given an advantage while these young locals have to spend time serving ns. this is what they see. the older ones see the change in singapore from 50 years back to what it is today. they have a longer outlook which they feel that the establishment has benefited them.

i do believe that as the years go by, the sense of discontent will simply increase, from what i observe.

choonway on Sat, 4th Jul 2009 6:46 pm

In the end, I am just wondering are we adequately compensated for taking in such risks? How much are NSF paid?

How much is the government liable for accidents like this? Worse yet what if you become a vegetable? Is the government just going to give $500 per month for 5 years? (see case of Tan Chia Wee).

xlandjy on Sat, 4th Jul 2009 9:03 pm

I am shocked. One family in Singapore just lost a GOOD SON. In an interview just two days ago for SAF Day, Defence Minister Teo proudly declared the formation of a Special Operation Task Force. He was quoted:

“”The newly-formed Special Operations Task Force, however, will mix and match the different capabilities of Singapore’s elite soldiers to muster a faster, sharper response to varying threats.”"

These are just EMPTY WORDS when it took them more than half an hour to remove a fellow officer from an accident scene to a hospital… Minister Teo, if you are serious in your words.. SACK THE CO.

Darth Vader on Sat, 4th Jul 2009 11:39 pm

So what will the SAF do about all these needless deaths? Absolutely nothing, as long as the casualties are “lesser mortals.” On the other hand, should they come from wealthy elite families, well ……

dk on Sun, 5th Jul 2009 12:38 am

i think it was reported that 30 minutes were required for the vehicle to be dispatched, not for it to arrive at the scene.

- on Sun, 5th Jul 2009 12:56 am

I agee, I think Mindef should gives us a proper answer.

There’s seriously far too many death cases, and it’s seriously just not acceptable!

ziiro on Sun, 5th Jul 2009 1:16 am

Since he died IN service, is Mindef liable for compensation? Or at they going to pull a “he didnt buy insurance so no compensation” stunt on the parents? Correct me if i’m wrong: Last i recall, insurance is now “optional” and is said to relieve mindef of the responsibility of paying compensation, since Mindef had increased servicemen’s pay to allow payment to this insurance scheme.

majulah on Sun, 5th Jul 2009 5:18 am

“How many more young men in the prime of their youths can we afford to lose through non-combat deaths?”

Ask a stupid question, get a stupid answer. We can lose as many young men as Singapore has young men, provided none of them are White Horses, got that?

2nd Lieutenant Chan is just another digit, expendable. So he’s dead, tough. He’s no scholar, his job is to lay down his life for those who are his betters, understand? Are his parents elite? No? Then what does it matter?

Cut the crap about whether it’s acceptable, preventable or callous. You voted us in, you gave us an overwhelming mandate, we have a blank cheque. You’re getting everything you asked for so quit bitching about the odd few deaths here and there, OK?

XisD Tay on Sun, 5th Jul 2009 8:44 am

Sadly so, this is the state of affairs in the SAF/Defence Ministry.

Whenever such incidents occur, SAF will release a simple statement acknowledging the death, investigation continuing and then silence for a few months until nothing.

Family members will be approached “quietly” and given token compensation and matter is settled, with the real cause of death swept under the carpet, Millisters continue to draw fat cheques, million dollar salary and nobody is taken to task unless those involved were small flies, ie: another lesser mortals were involved with causing the death.

I recall an incident a few years back when a recruit made a complaint against the Head of Milltary Law at SAF, one Jon Tan (if my memory is right) by writing to the Permanent Secretary of Defence thru his CO.

No action, no investigation were ever conducted and the reply came back thru his CO citing insufficient ground and no further action, SIGNED BY THE PERSON BEING COMPLAINT AGAINST, the Head of Military Law, Jon Tan, for PERMSEC Defence.

What a freaking joke! Its all about cover-ups and SAF seems to be doing a darn good job at it.

XisD Tay on Sun, 5th Jul 2009 8:50 am

1. Zirro, last time I remembered, we are looking at around $8000 to $12,000 for the death of a lesser mortals.

2. majulah, mean and crude but TRUE!

30 minutes for help in the same unit is UNACCEPTABLE! If someone had dialed 999, an outside ambulance would probably arrive at the scene in lesser time!

Anonymous on Sun, 5th Jul 2009 9:26 am

Who is responsible to NS man dead during duty? Are they trains to qualify and experience in his duty?

randomnessinmind on Sun, 5th Jul 2009 11:52 am

I was going ‘WTF how the fug did a 2LT get rolled over by a jeep’.

And yea MinDEF should, or rather, must issue a proper statement for this accident. This person here is not a Regular, right? If he/she was a regular I’ll not say anything because accidents to happen, and the few 2WO who died were unforeseen. If everything was foreseen our SAF could change their name to The Oracle.

But if the person who died now is an NSF, everyone need a proper statement and learn what happened. And perhaps reveal how screwed up the army system is sometimes. We need a detailed report to ensure such stupid things doesn’t occur again.

And really, if I go according to what I’ve known and read….2LT Chan was probably alone while getting himself stuck under the wheel within the 30 mins no one was around him. Probably means from now on everyone will be working in groups of two or more, even High ranking Officers, just to be safe. But yes I’m still curious How Do You Get Stuck Under A Jeep Wheel!?

3940 on Sun, 5th Jul 2009 2:41 pm

Let’s not use the death of a young man who died serving his Nation as an opportunity to run SAF down.

What is so sad is this young man did his best in his NSF and unfortunately died in a mishap which really should not have happened…..

When my sons are time for NSF, I will want them to go couragously and with an open mind… Better for them to serve, knowing full well that there are risks when working with explosives, machines, hazardous environment…

The alternative is to have sons who think and care only for themselves (never mind sociaty and country’s survival since can always migrate)…. However, the price will be sons who are self-serving, fearful, very vocal when it comes to complaining about how people should treat them …. and having no pride or courage to take up arms and defend family and country…. in old age, such sons will likely leave you to die too since the old parents are of no more use too.

I hope SAF will pay a monthly gratuity to the surviving parents for the rest of their lives… this is what the late LTA Nicholas would probably want (that his parents are taken care of… till they pass away.)

Another soldier on Sun, 5th Jul 2009 6:43 pm

Honestly, it was a freak incident… alot of questions were asked. We are sad that we lost a young officer who just commissioned a month ago due to someone’s negligence.

There are too many questions that needs to be answered. So please do not speculate until the investigation is completed.

Rolly Bic on Sun, 5th Jul 2009 9:35 pm

I feel that it is 1 life too many.

why should people die in training?

people die for a good cause like defend the country.

I guess only when singaporeans are the ones who lost their loved ones like this would only be able to fully understand how much is the pain . Only when it happens to you, whoever you are.

Ungrieved Soul. on Mon, 6th Jul 2009 12:04 am

Well, we are lesser mortals. Unless we’re those of the white horses, don’t expect the government or the SAF to even take pity on us.

T on Mon, 6th Jul 2009 9:34 am

He was a very close friend, and an only child. We are all in grieve at this point in time.

Also, the vehicle did not roll backwards. It was on level ground.

胡説八道 on Mon, 6th Jul 2009 12:48 pm

1st: MOH – Ministry of Home Affair for letting Mas Selamat escaped.
2nd: MOE – Ministry of Environment for the Poison Indian Rojak cae
3rd: MOD – Ministry of Defence for this death case.

Next: ???

KJ on Mon, 6th Jul 2009 3:31 pm

Eugene,

This is a poor article. I cannot believe this is a top story on wayang party.com. Seriously, is there a need to ask such serious questions everytime in the name of transparency? Every army in the world is secretive. When a soldier dies in camp, inevitably, there is a series of red tape that prevents the public and at most times, the deceased’s family members as well from knowing what actually happened.

This does not just occur in Singapore. It occurs even in the U.S, where the freedom of information is upheld.

This article does not do anything to help the situation at hand. Mindef, like all their counterparts in the world, will continue to reveal as little as possible regardless of the ferocity of press, online or offline.

pui on Mon, 6th Jul 2009 3:42 pm

[ i do believe that most of the young are anti-establishment. they see foreigners come in and occupy places in local unis, jobs taken up.]
And the whole ‘local guys lose out’ thing just perpetuates because the FTs favor their own. I used to work in a govt dept headed by a Malaysian. Two of his three deputies were M’sians and almost all the HODs were Malaysians (got their degrees when our guys were in NS). During promotion exercise, if you weren’t M’sia, you were bumped to the back of the queue. This happened every year I was there.

loop on Mon, 6th Jul 2009 4:53 pm

I’m sure all these infos are confidential. It’s the same with all defence ministry locally or overseas. Maybe the writer should ask about why some healthy Singaporean men are being exempted from reservists. Most of them only produce medical reports from GPs. They look fit & normal to me. I don’t understand how come they can be exempted while some in their late forties are still being called back for active reservists.

abc on Mon, 6th Jul 2009 4:59 pm

What is the most sadden part is that they could not reveal anything to his parents.. Why? Is it really internal investigation or they are just trying to come up with a perfect story of truth and false statements.

Now his parents lost their only son, only child, isnt it fair enough for the to know the truth of everything.

Im sorry to say but its really a pack of nonsense that singapore is a democratic society. It hurts to see another young man who has serve for the country is gone not due to war, but a stupid accident.

What goes around, comes around.

local student on Mon, 6th Jul 2009 5:58 pm

all the good temporary jobs, part time jobs, internships, advancement courses, immersion programmes i cannot get because of stupid RESERVIST STINTS & MOBILIZATION WEEKS. all go to foreign students and the rich local kids who exploited loopholes.
but when we locals DIE, our parents cannot know what happened. because SAF will say INVESTIGATION UNDER WAY. as long as not one of the MP/CIVIL SERVICE ELITE/CEO SONS died, they care shit.

XisD Tay on Mon, 6th Jul 2009 9:57 pm

Anonymous said: Who is responsible to NS man dead during duty? Are they trains to qualify and experience in his duty?

A pre-condition for responsibility is accountability and transparency. Unfortunately, Sinkapore gahment doesn’t practise any of these.

a fren of nic on Mon, 6th Jul 2009 11:07 pm

Its too late to apologise. We just hope that we get the truth and not a unbelievable story and escape.

A P on Mon, 6th Jul 2009 11:17 pm

“This does not just occur in Singapore. It occurs even in the U.S, where the freedom of information is upheld”

There is a difference though. In Singapore, we are conscripted to serve the nation. In US, the young men have a choice to join the armed forces or not

Father of three on Mon, 6th Jul 2009 11:37 pm

I agree we shouldn’t speculate about this case and start pointing fingers yet. But it is perfectly normal, in my opinion to express concern at the unusually high number of such accidents.

Is it simply bad luck or are there underlying weaknesses in the system? This is a very very important question that should be addressed.

IFeelSadForHisFamily on Mon, 6th Jul 2009 11:44 pm

Guys
Read This
http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_399468.html?vgnmr=1

HE was their only child, born to them through in-vitro fertilisation.
…………..
In between sobs, she said that her son would come back almost every night to the family home to have dinner before heading back to camp. She had been expecting him as usual on Friday evening – but he never came.

I really feel sad for his family

IFeelSadForHisFamily on Mon, 6th Jul 2009 11:46 pm

Can anyone of you tell me why this kind of accident does not happen to “whitehorse” (MP’s son and rich man’ son)

Are we living in a fair world?????? tell me

randomnessinmind on Tue, 7th Jul 2009 1:56 am

Hmm….perhaps if I am allowed to say, in reply to KJ’s reply to Eugene over there.

Defence matters should be wholly kept a secret is something we all know. It’s almost basics to everyone who’s entered NS. But regarding the death of this 2LT, I believe revealing investigation results of his death will not jeopardize any defense operations of any sort. And everyone needs to know how and what our SAF will respond to prevent such cases from happening again. Parents usually care for their kids, and I’ve yet met want who’d wish to know their kids has a chance of getting rolled over due to accidents within his NS time.

I need to know, really, when investigations are finally over, how on earth did a jeep roll over him?

Darth Vader on Tue, 7th Jul 2009 10:19 am

3940, at least one Member of Parliament, Wee Siew Kim, has raised a child so selfish she thinks only of the personal hedonistic pleasure of herself and her fellow elite brats. What kind of person do you think she must be if she wants working class people to get out of her elite uncaring face? And considering that Mr. Wee said that Singaporeans can’t handle the truth about her statements, it implies that he played a crucial role in bringing her up to be that way.

Add to that MP Charles Chong’s addressing of ordinary people as lesser mortals and MP Lee Bee Wah’s arrogant irresponsible cowardice. It beggars the question of what sort of people they are raising their own children to be, those that will take up arms and die for the country, or those that will be “self-serving, fearful, very vocal when it comes to complaining about how people should treat them …. and having no pride or courage to take up arms and defend family and country” as you put it: those who will die for the flag, or those who will flee and let the “lesser mortals” fight and die so that they can come home and reclaim their wealth?

What sort of people does anyone else think these esteemed MPs’ children will grow up to be?

The Singapore Daily » Blog Archive » Daily SG: 7 Jul 2009 on Tue, 7th Jul 2009 11:16 am

[...] National Service – The Wayang Party: One non-combat death a month: is this acceptable? [...]

Boyo on Tue, 7th Jul 2009 2:48 pm

And as usual… was anyone else around? MINDEF keeping secrets just undermines everything.

A sad unnecessary death, again due to one of the most badly run organisations in Singapore where eat snake and cutting corners is a way of life.

Panzer on Tue, 7th Jul 2009 2:57 pm

Based on the (little) information given, it appears to be an unfortunate accident.

Condolences to the family of the late Second Lieutenant Nicholas Chan Wei Kit.

Whilst laying blame on the SAF would not be fair until the facts are established, it is useful to remember than conscription is mandatory for Singapore male citizens (and 2nd generation PRs) but that jobs are optional for the very same citizens.

We bear the burden of citizenship by risking our lives for duty, honour country but face an uneven playing field in the competition for jobs and careers.

Majullah Singapura.

pissyoffy on Tue, 7th Jul 2009 4:14 pm

Dunno how much this citizenship will worth when you are jobless as the Gahmen don’t care hoot about you. I don’t mind selling it for 1 million, lagi better no need to serve NS or Reservist.

XisD Tay on Tue, 7th Jul 2009 7:22 pm

KJ said: Every army in the world is secretive. When a soldier dies in camp, inevitably, there is a series of red tape that prevents the public and at most times, the deceased’s family members as well from knowing what actually happened.

Absolutely rubbish! This is peace time we are talking about and he was not on active operation of any sort. He is probably an MTO of that camp.

Whats so secretive about the cause of his death that cannot be revealed or if revealed will cause a security issue? Its not that he is some big shot holding a position that oversee National Security, he is just a small fly 2LT serving his National Service. NS men even officers ARE NEVER GIVEN the security clearance up to a level that will affect National Security, so all that crap about secretive, red tape is nothing but bull shit!

If someone caused the death through negligence or the vehicle was faulty, then the person or SAF should be taken to task, it should rightly be so. I cannot imagine say a fight broke out in camp and then someone got stab to death but due to “secret concern”, the offender is let off and the matter swept under the carpet.

Thats the problem with Sinkapore, the gahment conveniently swwp all dust under the carpet and the citizen conveniently accept the non-disclosure based on some wayang “secret” guise.

Come back here and tell that to all of us again when and if (touch wood) your son was on the receiving end.

XisD Tay on Tue, 7th Jul 2009 7:44 pm

People, from the (little) information I managed to gather via some phone calls, an UNCONFIRMED SOURCES close to the ***** revealed, the rover was JACKED UP when the deceased was inspecting the Rover. Somehow the JACK gave way and pinned the deceased under the Rover, hence why the recovery vehicle had to “lift the vehicle off him”

Excercise some common sense, the Rover was stationary, engine dead, on a flat ground, the chances of it rolling backwards or forward is a million to one.

The deceased was inspecting the Rover at that time and HAD TO BE UNDER the Rover to warrant it being “LIFTED OFF HIM” or else anyone having been in the NS would know that by releasing the brake, a few servicemen would have been able to push it off him since any tire rolling over him will not go on top of him 100%, he will not be pinned too seriously had the Rover rolled, considering the flat surface the Rover was stationary on.

For a Rover to be on top of the deceased would require that the surface the rover was on be a slope since that will be the only wasy the Rover could have picked up momentum to roll over ON TOP of the deceased.

ASSUMING that the above is true and correct, then:

1. The Jack used was faulty,and SAF being the organisation with ownership of the Jack, would be legally liable for the death and be subjected to a massive law suit (not withstanding the outcome of the lawsuit considering the kangaroos running the Court).

Now we all know that any organisation run by the elite simply CANNOT allow itself to be sued although the outcome is predictable though.

Too much bad publicity on the eve of an election is sure a no no and the famiLEE simply cannot and will not allow it.

Thus it is understandable that the fact of the so-called Internal Investigation will almost 99.9% never be made known or a toned down wayang version will be used.

Look at the numerous deaths just this year, prior to this, its been months of “Internal Investigation” and where are the outcome? Any public statement issued except the normal wayang of “still investigating” and “condolences”?

Certainly with elites running the investigation, a simple investigation as to why the parachute won’t open or why the vehicle came on top of the deceased should be a walk in the park.

Its pretty sure the investigation or whatever evidence have been gathered but the gahment will not be releasing them cause Sinkaporeans are known for their “short memory”, they will forget, so why bother to release anyway?

XisD Tay on Tue, 7th Jul 2009 10:27 pm

Now for the official version of the incident

The Rover was being repaired and the deceased had accidentally forgotten/and or releaed the hand brake of the Rover. He then proceeded to check the hind of the Rover when the Rover rolled backwards on the “slightly sloppy” surface and pinned him down causing his death.

Since the driver with him was in the mess and the deceased being pinned down had suffered serious injuries and could not have screamed for help until he was discovered 30 minutes later by another soldier, which explain the delay for any assistance being dispatched.

Since SAF is very particular and strict on a PROPER CHAIN OF COMMAND and will not hesitate to charge anyone not following it, the soldier being a PRIVATE ran to his MT line CORPORAL and informed him of the incident, the CORPORAL then called the SERGENT MT line, the SERGENT called the MTO, MTO informed the HQ’s S1, S1 goes to S3, S3 then inform Unit’s 2IC and 2IC had to call Unit’s CO mobile a few times because he was out playing golf. CO then ordered that a vehicle be dispatched to life the Rover, which explains the delay of 30 minutes or so.

alibaba on Tue, 7th Jul 2009 11:35 pm

to FeelSadForHisFamily,

simple logic. very difficult for cmpb and mindef to have such accidents unless the air con fall on them. some don’t even need to serve because doctors can be easil swayed with some political power from behind.

Vote of Opposition on Wed, 8th Jul 2009 1:05 am

The newly pass out 2LT receiving a Landrover? A job for officer? What the SAF is evolving into now??? I am not saying that junior officer cannot receive or inspect vehicle before taking over. But where are the VMs or the Class 1 Drivers?????? They suppose to be there to take over and MTO fresh from OCS who only know about infantry tactics does he know about vehicles?

Did the WM or senior drivers or even MT warrant “makan” the new officer?

Hoped SAF can investigate and charge these buggers if they found to “makan” an inexperienced serviceman.

XisD Tay on Wed, 8th Jul 2009 8:46 am

Vote of Opposition, according to limited infromation, the MTO was actually there to receive the rover which was sent there for repair. Accordingly it is normal for him to have a driver with him at that time since he has no license to operate one.

Maybe fresh from OCT, he must show a bit so he choose to check the vehicle personally lor, but from information, he was checking tyre, so maybe the rover had a punctured tire?

Most driver all private or corporal not experienced and qualified enough, maybe?

XisD Tay on Wed, 8th Jul 2009 8:48 am

alibaba said: simple logic. very difficult for cmpb and mindef to have such accidents unless the air con fall on them. some don’t even need to serve because doctors can be easil swayed with some political power from behind.

Since you mentioned this, I wonder if LHL son the one with the sickness (cannot see sun just moon sickness) DID or DID NOT serve his NS lor.

Anyone knows?

Vote of Opposition on Wed, 8th Jul 2009 10:55 am

XisD Tay,

My old camp MT Line when they receive vehicle, always got VM or Class 1 drivers there to receive vehicles. Class 1 driver can be a PTE. Its the experience that counts and not point asking a MAJ to receive when he does not know about Diesel Landrover.

Likewise about the 2LT I really doubt he knows about Veh and I am asking if his MT Warrant or Senior drivers had “tekan” their new MTO?

Chim Moi on Wed, 8th Jul 2009 2:19 pm

he is the only child of his parents

alamak on Wed, 8th Jul 2009 6:15 pm

in-vitro fertilized very the exepensive one. single son some more. couple old already how to give birth again? sad case. the gene flow for that family is blocked.

Smeow on Wed, 8th Jul 2009 7:21 pm

XisD Tay: Now for the official version of the incident

XisD Tay, how reliable is this source? Nicholas was a close friend of mine, we were all devastated upon hearing his death. My friend went to the accident site the second day, it is really a small flat piece of ground.

How could a land rover rolled fast enough to pinned him under its wheels? There was obvious tyre marks. I believe every driver will know this could not happened with handbrake on? The stories in the papers was so not convincing. There are so many loopholes. Supposingly a check have to be done on the land rover, shouldn’t there be wood blocks behind the rear tyres? Could there be somebody who accidentally reversed the vehicle? Nicholas have no license. I felt that he definitely was not alone and released the handbrake because he doesn’t know how to.

I really hope Mindef will take this seriously and address this to the public as well as his family…

Smeow on Wed, 8th Jul 2009 7:29 pm

By the way, He as a officer w/o a driving license shouldn’t be there to collect the vehicle isn’t it?!!!

randomnessinmind on Wed, 8th Jul 2009 8:29 pm

I have a proposition here. Less questioning each other, more churning up of information.

Smeow wrote:
“XisD Tay, how reliable is this source?”

I don’t see why you’re asking when we’re anonymous to each other. You seem to have links to the victim, perhaps you can find out more and share it with us.

And please no guessing, no conspiracy theories or such. I just want to know how it happened through facts, and how we’re going to prevent such things from happening again.

XisD Tay on Wed, 8th Jul 2009 8:57 pm

Vote of Opposition, I have never been in the national service but my younger brother was, so I merely posted from what I know from him.

I wasn’t debating who should receive the vehicle but merely stated that maybe being new, he wanted to “show a bit”. Its obvious he must have a driver with him to receive the vehicle but that bags another question.

Are all vehicles sent for repair and returned considered as “receiving the vehicle” terminologically or it only applies to new vehicles?

XisD Tay on Wed, 8th Jul 2009 9:07 pm

Smeow said: How could a land rover rolled fast enough to pinned him under its wheels? There was obvious tyre marks. I believe every driver will know this could not happened with handbrake on? The stories in the papers was so not convincing. There are so many loopholes. Supposingly a check have to be done on the land rover, shouldn’t there be wood blocks behind the rear tyres? Could there be somebody who accidentally reversed the vehicle? Nicholas have no license. I felt that he definitely was not alone and released the handbrake because he doesn’t know how to.

I am glad you share the same sentiments and doubts with me pertaining to the version published by the shitty times and other papers. If you can think of all these inconsistancies, others will.

However, as with all other incidents, those responsible are wagering on the people having short memories and once the issue goes into “international investigation” for a couple of more months, its ashes to ashes, dust to dust and nobody bothers or remembers anymore, except of course the poor family who lost their beloved.

I am not to say that those in-charge at SAF will do this this time round but history have proven this tactic to be employed many a time with great success.

As for your quesiton of the reliability of the unnamed sources, all I can say it that my theory is more readable that those of the shitty times until proven wrong.

I have already pointed out the many ??? in my earlier post regarding the same doubt you had, like being on a flat ground, momentum, etc. So no point repeating them over again and again. Take it with a pinch of salt though cause nothing is definite in the universe

Lets just say the official version will not venture too far from my theory.

Also btw, those/whoever at the scene are under strict orders from the TOP to not to reveal or leak or talk to anyone BUT those investigating, ie: IO from the Provost unit.

XisD Tay on Wed, 8th Jul 2009 9:10 pm

BTW, just a clarification, unnamed sources DID NOT reveal the following, I cooked, streamed, invented it up just for entertainment purposes

XisD Tay on Thu, 9th Jul 2009 12:37 am

randomnessinmind said: And please no guessing, no conspiracy theories or such. I just want to know how it happened through facts, and how we’re going to prevent such things from happening again.

I have enjoyed reading your posts and logic prevails in almost all of them.

From the above statement, in particular to “I just want to know how it happened through facts, and how we’re going to prevent such things from happening again”, it appears that you are one in a position to effect the necessary changes, take the necessary action and ensure that such unfortunate incidents does not happen again?

XisD Tay on Thu, 9th Jul 2009 9:36 am

UPDATES:
========

I asked a friend of mine working at a forensic lab somewhere. According to him, considering for the purpose of discussion the rover was parked, stationary, engine off, flat ground, the rover COULD NOT HAVE MANAGED to roll over him because it would not have picked up the necessary speed/momentum at all until it had rolled from at least 10 metres away, the speed of which is subjective to the slide.

The only possibility of the rover being on top of him and pinning him down is unless the rover was reversed with engine on or it fell on him.

Anyone game to play detective?

zankenny on Thu, 9th Jul 2009 10:07 pm

CNA just reported that police has arrested a NSF in connection with the death of 2LT Chan. The suspect is now out on bail and assisting police in investigations.

randomnessinmind on Thu, 9th Jul 2009 11:01 pm

@Xisd Tay:

No I’m nowhere near any position to affect changes within the system. All I can do is warn everyone I know and remind them of what happened and how to prevent such things from happening ever again. I try for most parts to keep people I know alive, i and out of the country. It keeps my heart feeling comfortable to know that to date, everyone I’ve known online or offline are still living well and happy. And I sometimes go to great lengths to keep some out of trouble.

But thanks for reading my postings, it’s good to know you’re doing so much to find information out too. Perhaps your heart is still with the people, even if you’re elsewhere on the Globe.

XisD Tay on Fri, 10th Jul 2009 4:16 am

Coming soon….

There was a qualified driver with him when the incident occured. Apparently, the deceased was checking the tail lights and the driver for some stupid reason had the engine on so he could maybe step on the brake and let deceased see lights?

And also for some stupid reason known only to himself the driver, why did he allow the vehicle to go into reverse?

Anyway, after the much hoo har by WP, the matter handed over to an independant organisation SPF for further investigation after SAF’s Internation Investigation clear any TOP BRASS of any negligence or wrong doings, basically what ehy cannot cover.

So the driver, instead of being Court Martial will now be facing the Civilian Court possibly on a Charge related to Negligent/Rash Act Causing Death.

Although the wayang seems to be perfect with the “guilty party” now identified and cause of death established, but it still does not answer the question of the 30 minute laspe which IS and MAY HAVE saved the deceased life.

Why 30 minutes when the driver was with the deceased from zero hour? Why wasn’t the MO at the medical centre informed and rushed to scene, why wasn’t the recovery vehicle despatched immediately?

Seletar Camp really doesn’t qualify as a camp with a “long coastline”, ya?

T on Fri, 10th Jul 2009 11:17 am

According to a very close friend (of mine, and Nicholas’) who was at the camp, the driver reversed the vehicle, thereby causing him to be pinned down.

arix on Fri, 10th Jul 2009 7:15 pm

I also heard it was murder due to some personal feud in camp.

XisD Tay on Fri, 10th Jul 2009 10:27 pm

T said: According to a very close friend (of mine, and Nicholas’) who was at the camp, the driver reversed the vehicle, thereby causing him to be pinned down.

Yes, thats the version from those involved in the investigation and what I had suspected all along.

Now the poor guilty party will be facing charges in a civil court, but it may be a blessing for him since he won’t have to serve his time in DB, which I heard is worst than civil prison and serve soon-to-expire canned army ration.

wayangkulit on Sat, 11th Jul 2009 8:59 am

NSF arrested for “rash act”…
Shouldn’t the SAF be arrested for lack of safety precautions instead?
why place the burden solely on the NSF driver in an obvious effort to displace blame?

Qasey Lin on Sat, 11th Jul 2009 9:26 am

http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking%2BNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_399594.html

“2LT Chan’s cousins described him as a ‘happy-go-lucky’ and ‘playful’ person, with a keen eye for fashion. He had a passion for clothes, they said, and even chose to specialise in retail management as a student at Temasek Polytechnic. ”

First impression in any SAF “superior” mind would prolly be:
1. Just another “lesser mortal”
2. Poly student/Local Grad – the streets’ full of them. Not as if educated in certain western/atas countries like USA, Aus, Germ, Jap and UK.
3. Driver more or less ITE one. Goondul one…. Prime/easy target for scapegoat.
4. Only son…. sh**. Suey sia! Suey because have to explain a lot more. Not suey for the parents. Since when is SAF compassionate and empathetic?
5. Prolly another ITE vs POLY bad blood again.

Qasey Lin on Sat, 11th Jul 2009 9:27 am

Wonder-wonder which unlucky NSF will become the sacrificial lamb this time?

the seekorlah world on Sat, 11th Jul 2009 2:14 pm

this is what will happen if u let young seekolars run all the decisions…people..earn as much as u can and when u turn 55, take out your CPF and migrate…singapore is not ours anymore…just go to the foodcourt and kopithiam…how many cheena women and men u see?

XisD Tay on Sun, 12th Jul 2009 12:17 am

So it is confirmed, the NSF suay driver will be charged for causing death due to a negligent or rash act S(304A), which reads:

304A. Whoever causes the death of any person by doing any rash or negligent act not amounting to culpable homicide, shall be punished —

(a) in the case of a rash act, with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 5 years, or with fine, or with both; or

(b) in the case of a negligent act, with imprisonment for a term which may extend to 2 years, or with fine, or with both.

Hopefully lucky lucky the Court return a finding of culpable negligence on the driver’s part and not rashness.

God bless the poor driver who obviously somehow isn’t aware that the deceased was bending down to look at the hind signal lights.

XisD Tay on Sun, 12th Jul 2009 12:21 am

Hm… come to think of it, dunno he can get lucky since he in the SAf, technically also considered gahment employee, can be like the Chief Editor lady driving kill and injured motorcycle rider and passenger, get fined and one day jail bo?

XisD Tay on Sun, 12th Jul 2009 1:17 am

If only Fairplayplease is a practising lawyer in Sinkapore, the poor NSF driver will have a better chance

XisD Tay on Sun, 12th Jul 2009 1:21 am

arix said: I also heard it was murder due to some personal feud in camp.

Neh, hardly likely that a traffic accident can qualify as a murder unless intention and motive can be proven.

T on Mon, 13th Jul 2009 1:03 am

I wouldn’t go so far as “murder due to a personal feud” but for some reason, the driver engaged in reverse gear and stepped on the pedal, so certainly, something must have happened prior / during that. I wonder whether we’ll ever learn the truth from the news outlets, instead of having to rely on second hand information passed down from friends.

wakeUp on Mon, 13th Jul 2009 4:14 am

Re: wayangkulit “NSF arrested for “rash act”…
Shouldn’t the SAF be arrested for lack of safety precautions instead? why place the burden solely on the NSF driver in an obvious effort to displace blame?

————–

Using the same logic, so if an ordinary Singaporean driver accidentally runs down a pedestrian in orchard road, we shouldn’t arrest him, but arrest his mother and father and his driving instructor and LTA because his rash act is the result of people not teaching him properly and not putting in place enough safety precautions?

Let’s not jump to conclusions. Cos’ it’s an NSF who died, I’m sure they will have a full investigation. But once this thing is handed to police, I don’t think MINDEF is allowed to say anything about it until police close the case and the fella responsible is charged and convicted/released. This is how legal proceedings work right? Try to ask MINDEF to give some answers now also no point. Let’s just wait and see.

jolly on Mon, 13th Jul 2009 10:24 am

the SAF was never and will never be efficiently run. It ia a every man for himself organisation manned by inexperienced and non motivated soldiers. And led by a whole bunch of so called scholar officers who have not seen war nor do they know what suffering means.(of course not all are like that) At the same token why are we still maintaining the gurkas contingent? As far as i know they only do sentry duties and walking in the jungle trying to find Mas selamat.

Lehman Bros on Mon, 13th Jul 2009 2:19 pm

■胡説八道 on Mon, 6th Jul 2009 12:48 pm

1st: MOH – Ministry of Home Affair for letting Mas Selamat escaped.
2nd: MOE – Ministry of Environment for the Poison Indian Rojak case
3rd: MOD – Ministry of Defence for this death case.

Next: ???

MOF – Ministry of Finance for allowing struc products to be mis-sold.

bah on Thu, 16th Jul 2009 1:10 am

Lehman Bros:

Cool! It’s all the government’s fault, especially the PAP for having such high salaries. I mean, if we had a poorly-paid CSJ for PM, the rojak wouldn’t have been poisoned and land rovers wouldn’t roll backwards! Like, totally.

randomnessinmind on Tue, 21st Jul 2009 10:05 pm

Well, still no news. Guess it has already died down. BTW, I wish Lijing was still here so I can ask her what she thinks about this case. Hahahahaha…..a day of jail and fine because “it wasn’t done on purpose”…..HaHAHAHAHAHAHA….no really, I’m laughing right now, for I just remembered that stupid horrendous conversation we had here on WP.

You know…it’s sad that I still don’t know why this 2LT died, it’s not as bad as the guy who died because a female driver was rushing to her Spa and talking to the phone at the same time!