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	<title>Comments on: BREAKING: MOE succumbs to intense lobbying to suspend Aware&#8217;s CSE</title>
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	<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/05/06/breaking-moe-succumbs-to-intense-lobbying-by-christian-groups-to-suspend-awares-cse/</link>
	<description>The Voice of Singapore from Singaporeans for Singaporeans</description>
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		<title>By: Observer</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/05/06/breaking-moe-succumbs-to-intense-lobbying-by-christian-groups-to-suspend-awares-cse/comment-page-4/#comment-13756</link>
		<dc:creator>Observer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 14 May 2009 09:02:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wayangparty.com/?p=9020#comment-13756</guid>
		<description>Perhaps I can bring the discussion back and ask if there seemed to be so many people out there who think that CSE is ok, why is it that the government suspended it only just?

Is it

1. The government is weak and giving in to the minority fundamentalist group?

2. The government is weak and giving in to the majority view?

3. The government is doing it because they think its the right thing to do but was caught unaware of the content before?

4. The government is anti-gay or anti Aware?

It can’t be (4) as they would have blocked the CSE from the start. Which is it?

Who should the government make the policy based on? Should it be

1. Gays?
2. Students?
3. Parents?
4. Everyone?

If its everyone (or more specifically non-parents), how to address the concern for the responsibility that the parents have to carry for values taught which is not aligned with their family values?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps I can bring the discussion back and ask if there seemed to be so many people out there who think that CSE is ok, why is it that the government suspended it only just?</p>
<p>Is it</p>
<p>1. The government is weak and giving in to the minority fundamentalist group?</p>
<p>2. The government is weak and giving in to the majority view?</p>
<p>3. The government is doing it because they think its the right thing to do but was caught unaware of the content before?</p>
<p>4. The government is anti-gay or anti Aware?</p>
<p>It can’t be (4) as they would have blocked the CSE from the start. Which is it?</p>
<p>Who should the government make the policy based on? Should it be</p>
<p>1. Gays?<br />
2. Students?<br />
3. Parents?<br />
4. Everyone?</p>
<p>If its everyone (or more specifically non-parents), how to address the concern for the responsibility that the parents have to carry for values taught which is not aligned with their family values?</p>
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		<title>By: F1</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/05/06/breaking-moe-succumbs-to-intense-lobbying-by-christian-groups-to-suspend-awares-cse/comment-page-4/#comment-12950</link>
		<dc:creator>F1</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 05:17:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wayangparty.com/?p=9020#comment-12950</guid>
		<description>A Christian zealot above talked about gays in San Fran &amp; the San Andreas fault line leading to earth quake.

Amsterdam in Holland is the male homo city in the world..........where&#039;s the earth quake fault line in Holland?

CSE only give facts about sex incl homosexuality. Is it better that students learn about such on the Internet unsupervised rather than from CSE with its emphasis on responsibility &amp; prevention?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A Christian zealot above talked about gays in San Fran &amp; the San Andreas fault line leading to earth quake.</p>
<p>Amsterdam in Holland is the male homo city in the world&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.where&#8217;s the earth quake fault line in Holland?</p>
<p>CSE only give facts about sex incl homosexuality. Is it better that students learn about such on the Internet unsupervised rather than from CSE with its emphasis on responsibility &amp; prevention?</p>
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		<title>By: One &#38; All</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/05/06/breaking-moe-succumbs-to-intense-lobbying-by-christian-groups-to-suspend-awares-cse/comment-page-4/#comment-12942</link>
		<dc:creator>One &#38; All</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 10 May 2009 04:33:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wayangparty.com/?p=9020#comment-12942</guid>
		<description>Many, especially the over 50s have read the following ...

&quot;In Hind-Sight We are Wiser&quot;.

&quot;No one is Perfect&quot;.

So &quot;None is Wise&quot; too.

And &quot;Everyone is Entitlwed to his Opinion&quot;.

But &quot;No One knows so much the he can be right all of the time?.

Thus &quot;To Err is Human&quot;.

And so is &quot;To Err is Human&quot;.

All in all despite the above, I am still pretty amazed and perplexed too at by the posting in WP. And WP&#039;s moderation method like not allowing source of information to be posted for enlightening the pro or non-pro Christian teachings camps.
Indeed it is within WP or any other Blogs to fear &quot;politicising&quot; or religionising&quot; of it&#039;s subject matter if I may coin these two words. But surely too is not substantiation a necessity too by reference to a named source.

I am therefore perplexed by WP&#039;s reently message like &quot; ... you are posting your ... too fast&quot;. And my posting thus did not appear even for the moderation cause. Kind of makes me feel that my references to The Holy Bible is an attempt on my part to turn that direct WP TSM posted subject into a Christian blog. It&#039;s NOT the fierst time it has happened. And so it looks more like that WP is tracking me and not according the normal courtesy for moderation run.

If WP isn&#039;t about clarity with substantiating from name source for subtantive cause and effects by less than Self-Opinionated&quot;
comments, what then is WP about?

In short, I would encourage to to encourage and then collate a list of as &quot;Improvements of Reference&quot; for future use by all. Never mine if it teaches this PAP government and they do inplemnet them. As it&#039;ll be good when they do. As WP and One &amp; ALL can also creat yet another list of what&#039;s suggest and even detailed by us &quot;Lesser Mortals&quot; and then carried out by the &quot;Higher Mortals&quot; authority. As this is would then the &quot;Inclusive Society&quot; of this government&#039;s saying. BUT Intiated AND Contributed by US the Citizens of Singapore. And implementated by this government. Then Ultimately IT WILL show then &#039;WHO are the Smarter&#039; ones worth the highest pay in the world. Won&#039;t it? Know that WE ARE Greater in numbers too. Let none who brag and flatter self say this back to this us as an escape route then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many, especially the over 50s have read the following &#8230;</p>
<p>&#8220;In Hind-Sight We are Wiser&#8221;.</p>
<p>&#8220;No one is Perfect&#8221;.</p>
<p>So &#8220;None is Wise&#8221; too.</p>
<p>And &#8220;Everyone is Entitlwed to his Opinion&#8221;.</p>
<p>But &#8220;No One knows so much the he can be right all of the time?.</p>
<p>Thus &#8220;To Err is Human&#8221;.</p>
<p>And so is &#8220;To Err is Human&#8221;.</p>
<p>All in all despite the above, I am still pretty amazed and perplexed too at by the posting in WP. And WP&#8217;s moderation method like not allowing source of information to be posted for enlightening the pro or non-pro Christian teachings camps.<br />
Indeed it is within WP or any other Blogs to fear &#8220;politicising&#8221; or religionising&#8221; of it&#8217;s subject matter if I may coin these two words. But surely too is not substantiation a necessity too by reference to a named source.</p>
<p>I am therefore perplexed by WP&#8217;s reently message like &#8221; &#8230; you are posting your &#8230; too fast&#8221;. And my posting thus did not appear even for the moderation cause. Kind of makes me feel that my references to The Holy Bible is an attempt on my part to turn that direct WP TSM posted subject into a Christian blog. It&#8217;s NOT the fierst time it has happened. And so it looks more like that WP is tracking me and not according the normal courtesy for moderation run.</p>
<p>If WP isn&#8217;t about clarity with substantiating from name source for subtantive cause and effects by less than Self-Opinionated&#8221;<br />
comments, what then is WP about?</p>
<p>In short, I would encourage to to encourage and then collate a list of as &#8220;Improvements of Reference&#8221; for future use by all. Never mine if it teaches this PAP government and they do inplemnet them. As it&#8217;ll be good when they do. As WP and One &amp; ALL can also creat yet another list of what&#8217;s suggest and even detailed by us &#8220;Lesser Mortals&#8221; and then carried out by the &#8220;Higher Mortals&#8221; authority. As this is would then the &#8220;Inclusive Society&#8221; of this government&#8217;s saying. BUT Intiated AND Contributed by US the Citizens of Singapore. And implementated by this government. Then Ultimately IT WILL show then &#8216;WHO are the Smarter&#8217; ones worth the highest pay in the world. Won&#8217;t it? Know that WE ARE Greater in numbers too. Let none who brag and flatter self say this back to this us as an escape route then.</p>
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		<title>By: I-is-christian</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/05/06/breaking-moe-succumbs-to-intense-lobbying-by-christian-groups-to-suspend-awares-cse/comment-page-4/#comment-12521</link>
		<dc:creator>I-is-christian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 19:49:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wayangparty.com/?p=9020#comment-12521</guid>
		<description>Aiyah it&#039;s clear lah, can&#039;t everyone see it - some Christian bigwig in our government has spoken. You know how many of them are Christian or not? Just waiting for a chance to save Thio Su Mien&#039;s face back a bit, but she shoot herself so many times in the foot they got no chance, so use CSE loh.

Didn&#039;t you read what she said, she said she was &quot;pleased&quot;, like an empress dowager. Did she say thank you to MOE? No, she was pleased, as if they&#039;d done as she&#039;s instructed. Can almost imagine the smirk on her face.

What to do? Accept whatever they decide loh, then what. Like she said, she saved Singapore from the tsunami what.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Aiyah it&#8217;s clear lah, can&#8217;t everyone see it &#8211; some Christian bigwig in our government has spoken. You know how many of them are Christian or not? Just waiting for a chance to save Thio Su Mien&#8217;s face back a bit, but she shoot herself so many times in the foot they got no chance, so use CSE loh.</p>
<p>Didn&#8217;t you read what she said, she said she was &#8220;pleased&#8221;, like an empress dowager. Did she say thank you to MOE? No, she was pleased, as if they&#8217;d done as she&#8217;s instructed. Can almost imagine the smirk on her face.</p>
<p>What to do? Accept whatever they decide loh, then what. Like she said, she saved Singapore from the tsunami what.</p>
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		<title>By: commonsense</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/05/06/breaking-moe-succumbs-to-intense-lobbying-by-christian-groups-to-suspend-awares-cse/comment-page-3/#comment-12513</link>
		<dc:creator>commonsense</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 17:03:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wayangparty.com/?p=9020#comment-12513</guid>
		<description>Beware. Remember the Reichstag fire? Hilter deliberately allowed the communist party to burn the parliament building so that Germany would lose its collective shit and appoint him as Furhrer. The playing with human emotions is a old play from the trick books of politicians and the ambitious. 

Look at the dynamics of what is happening. Single out a five minute portion in the materials, hype it up with words, stir the emotions of conservative baby boomers whom are now parents and you will get what you want - look at what is happening, conservatives and parents are now panicking. Seriously, people please THINK for goodness sake. Fundamentalists who claim that they are able intervene tumor growth and tsunamis are now saying all this are setting some agenda. 

Back to my point and mark my words. This would evolve from changing the CSE materials and eventually doing some witch hunting in the gay community. After reading all the comments about civility, and that the last saturday&#039;s EGM was uncivilized. I strongly DISAGREE, the vocal display is the most civil manner a society can demonstrate. How should society progress? How would you know that you have the right answer? Honestly, I am not knowledgeable in this area but I&#039;ve read political philosophies from John Locke, Thomas Hobbs, Voltaire, Victor Hugo and Thomas Paine and even Confucius  as well as some history. These men laid the foundations of democratic systems, civic action,  personal liberties and civil society. When you understand all these, you will realize how corrupted this has become. So, my main point is read and understand &#039;true&#039; knowledge and form your opinions and come out with a rational explaination. All this lobbying nonsense are just a waste of time, manipulating emotions and setting agendas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Beware. Remember the Reichstag fire? Hilter deliberately allowed the communist party to burn the parliament building so that Germany would lose its collective shit and appoint him as Furhrer. The playing with human emotions is a old play from the trick books of politicians and the ambitious. </p>
<p>Look at the dynamics of what is happening. Single out a five minute portion in the materials, hype it up with words, stir the emotions of conservative baby boomers whom are now parents and you will get what you want &#8211; look at what is happening, conservatives and parents are now panicking. Seriously, people please THINK for goodness sake. Fundamentalists who claim that they are able intervene tumor growth and tsunamis are now saying all this are setting some agenda. </p>
<p>Back to my point and mark my words. This would evolve from changing the CSE materials and eventually doing some witch hunting in the gay community. After reading all the comments about civility, and that the last saturday&#8217;s EGM was uncivilized. I strongly DISAGREE, the vocal display is the most civil manner a society can demonstrate. How should society progress? How would you know that you have the right answer? Honestly, I am not knowledgeable in this area but I&#8217;ve read political philosophies from John Locke, Thomas Hobbs, Voltaire, Victor Hugo and Thomas Paine and even Confucius  as well as some history. These men laid the foundations of democratic systems, civic action,  personal liberties and civil society. When you understand all these, you will realize how corrupted this has become. So, my main point is read and understand &#8216;true&#8217; knowledge and form your opinions and come out with a rational explaination. All this lobbying nonsense are just a waste of time, manipulating emotions and setting agendas.</p>
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		<title>By: Where is the minister of education?</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/05/06/breaking-moe-succumbs-to-intense-lobbying-by-christian-groups-to-suspend-awares-cse/comment-page-3/#comment-12510</link>
		<dc:creator>Where is the minister of education?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 16:41:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wayangparty.com/?p=9020#comment-12510</guid>
		<description>Hmmm...notice that despit the spotlight and attention on sex education in schools, the Minister of Education, Ng Eng Hen, has been stunningly mute on this matter.

After all, it is a political hot potato and he might not be able to take more damage to his image after making all Singaporeans subscribe for the forced CPF Annuity.

So expect to see his press secretary and his subordinates in his ministry take point when addressing the public on this issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm&#8230;notice that despit the spotlight and attention on sex education in schools, the Minister of Education, Ng Eng Hen, has been stunningly mute on this matter.</p>
<p>After all, it is a political hot potato and he might not be able to take more damage to his image after making all Singaporeans subscribe for the forced CPF Annuity.</p>
<p>So expect to see his press secretary and his subordinates in his ministry take point when addressing the public on this issue.</p>
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		<title>By: Tua-Pek-Kong Idol Worshipper</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/05/06/breaking-moe-succumbs-to-intense-lobbying-by-christian-groups-to-suspend-awares-cse/comment-page-3/#comment-12504</link>
		<dc:creator>Tua-Pek-Kong Idol Worshipper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 15:53:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wayangparty.com/?p=9020#comment-12504</guid>
		<description>This is what I heard from a friend this evening.
2 of her siblings were christian and the sister got her pastor to try to convert the elderly father. The elderly man kept refusing and asked my friend to call the pastor to stop visiting him. The pastor insisted that he heard that from my friend&#039;s father and refused to accept the explanation that he had asked her to convey his wish. Later her christian sister called and said that her pastor called him to complain that my friend scolded him. This increased the rift between the sisters.
The maid late (after elderly man passed away) told my friend that he was forced to attend a service at a church despite screaming in protest.
Some time later, the christian daughter told the father that he had to see a nurse in a hospital. The mother went along and she later called my friend to say that it was a scheme to baptise the father as the pastor was waiting for them at the hospital.
Some time passed and the elderly man&#039;s illness got worse.

One evening, my friend was called to visit her father in the hospital when he was critically ill, he was on oxygen and unable to speak clearly but he was looking at her, grabbing my friend&#039;s son&#039;s hand and refusing to let go. He was trying very hard to say something but no one understood. When they had to forcefully remove his hand, his eyes were following my friend as she left the hospital room. 
She felt uneasy, not being able to understand the father. 
He died soon.
My friend went into a state of depression from guilt for some time. Her son has learnt to hate christians.

Is this kind of evangelism pro-family?

How many non-christian parents have suffered and have to suffer when their &quot;western&quot; educated children became christians?

Instead of blaming gays for breaking up families, I sugggest that christians do some self reflection and see how their dogmatic belief that only Jesus can save everyone, has destroyed traditional families like my friend&#039;s!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is what I heard from a friend this evening.<br />
2 of her siblings were christian and the sister got her pastor to try to convert the elderly father. The elderly man kept refusing and asked my friend to call the pastor to stop visiting him. The pastor insisted that he heard that from my friend&#8217;s father and refused to accept the explanation that he had asked her to convey his wish. Later her christian sister called and said that her pastor called him to complain that my friend scolded him. This increased the rift between the sisters.<br />
The maid late (after elderly man passed away) told my friend that he was forced to attend a service at a church despite screaming in protest.<br />
Some time later, the christian daughter told the father that he had to see a nurse in a hospital. The mother went along and she later called my friend to say that it was a scheme to baptise the father as the pastor was waiting for them at the hospital.<br />
Some time passed and the elderly man&#8217;s illness got worse.</p>
<p>One evening, my friend was called to visit her father in the hospital when he was critically ill, he was on oxygen and unable to speak clearly but he was looking at her, grabbing my friend&#8217;s son&#8217;s hand and refusing to let go. He was trying very hard to say something but no one understood. When they had to forcefully remove his hand, his eyes were following my friend as she left the hospital room.<br />
She felt uneasy, not being able to understand the father.<br />
He died soon.<br />
My friend went into a state of depression from guilt for some time. Her son has learnt to hate christians.</p>
<p>Is this kind of evangelism pro-family?</p>
<p>How many non-christian parents have suffered and have to suffer when their &#8220;western&#8221; educated children became christians?</p>
<p>Instead of blaming gays for breaking up families, I sugggest that christians do some self reflection and see how their dogmatic belief that only Jesus can save everyone, has destroyed traditional families like my friend&#8217;s!</p>
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		<title>By: Balanced Fair-play</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/05/06/breaking-moe-succumbs-to-intense-lobbying-by-christian-groups-to-suspend-awares-cse/comment-page-3/#comment-12499</link>
		<dc:creator>Balanced Fair-play</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 15:18:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wayangparty.com/?p=9020#comment-12499</guid>
		<description>There has been mention about kids having access to alternative and multiple resources on the Internet about sex, etc. That is a fact.

The CSE contains reference to anal sex, homosexuality, etc

so what is the difference.

A BIG one, it seems. There is a difference, as any educator will tell you, about a kid reading, watching pron, vs someone of authority, position or trust telling him about porn and sex. While one may explore due to curiosity, etc, hearing it from one appointed by the school is vastly NOT the same.

The homosexuality advocates like to equate what IS similar BUT very different as the SAME - such logic is gravely flawed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There has been mention about kids having access to alternative and multiple resources on the Internet about sex, etc. That is a fact.</p>
<p>The CSE contains reference to anal sex, homosexuality, etc</p>
<p>so what is the difference.</p>
<p>A BIG one, it seems. There is a difference, as any educator will tell you, about a kid reading, watching pron, vs someone of authority, position or trust telling him about porn and sex. While one may explore due to curiosity, etc, hearing it from one appointed by the school is vastly NOT the same.</p>
<p>The homosexuality advocates like to equate what IS similar BUT very different as the SAME &#8211; such logic is gravely flawed.</p>
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		<title>By: Balanced Fair-play</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/05/06/breaking-moe-succumbs-to-intense-lobbying-by-christian-groups-to-suspend-awares-cse/comment-page-3/#comment-12498</link>
		<dc:creator>Balanced Fair-play</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 15:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wayangparty.com/?p=9020#comment-12498</guid>
		<description>Re: Robox
-------
If sex is so natural to you, had you have sex with your father, mother, sister, brother, son, daughter, dog, grandfather, grandmother, goldfish, etc ........

Certainly, I hope you know there must be some rules, common sense, respect, regard.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Robox<br />
&#8212;&#8212;-<br />
If sex is so natural to you, had you have sex with your father, mother, sister, brother, son, daughter, dog, grandfather, grandmother, goldfish, etc &#8230;&#8230;..</p>
<p>Certainly, I hope you know there must be some rules, common sense, respect, regard&#8230;..</p>
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		<title>By: Ang Kong Kia</title>
		<link>http://www.temasekreview.com/2009/05/06/breaking-moe-succumbs-to-intense-lobbying-by-christian-groups-to-suspend-awares-cse/comment-page-3/#comment-12478</link>
		<dc:creator>Ang Kong Kia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 May 2009 11:39:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://wayangparty.com/?p=9020#comment-12478</guid>
		<description>Oh Tham Eng on Thu, 7th May 2009 3:48 pm ...

You compare the OLD GUARD with communists - it is an insult to the communists.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh Tham Eng on Thu, 7th May 2009 3:48 pm &#8230;</p>
<p>You compare the OLD GUARD with communists &#8211; it is an insult to the communists.</p>
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