A view from a normal guy on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 10:40 am 

I think what this new group of women are doing is great.

I am not a christian but i do understand what is mainstream and what is not. Lesbian/Gay is definately not mainstream and definately do not have a place in AWARE.

I certainly do not wish OUR SOCIETY to treat Lesbian/Gay as mainstream.

Neither do i have anything against them. I have friends who are lesbian/gay, i still treat them as a friend.

But I am definately AGAINST promotion of lesbian/gay mentatily toward mainstream groups, especially in primary/secondary schools.

If any human being wants to explore lesbian/gay -hood, they should be able do so, but to/with a properly named organisation (Whose mission defined clearly) to help them.

A normal guy, with kids to consider.

flyingdagger on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 10:42 am 

Holy Jesus!! Evidence that they are imposing their religion belives onto others.

If this is allowed to continue, it will divide and destabilize the society.. And why is the government not doing anything??

More equal than others on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 10:52 am 

“But I am definately AGAINST promotion of lesbian/gay mentatily toward mainstream groups, especially in primary/secondary schools.”

Well I am definitely against promotion of religious agendas especially in schools.

0ne on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 11:02 am 

This confirms that the new AWARE is really BEWARE (Bitchy Evangelistic Women with Agenda for Re-education)

concern party on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 11:31 am 

Can we ask the old guard to verify if indeed they promoted gay rights in schools? If this is the case, then there is indeed something for the old guard to answer for. Gay or anti-gay, lesbianlism or anti-lesbianlism, schools should be kept out of all these. Same for religious activities, though I do know teachers and even HODs who evangelise to their students and even invite students to their churches and church activities.

dreamingpunk on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 11:40 am 

To a “A View From The Normal Guy”.

there is a big difference between teaching TOLERANCE and pushing an agenda. I suggest you re-read these emails again to see how they are trying to paint an Awareness drive into a advocacy for what they term as “un-GODly” activities. If one day, your children or any of those you know now decide to choose the “non-mainstream” way of affection, would you rather societal Tolerance or have them treated as pariahs?

And don’t get me wrong, I am a “normal guy” just like you, but human beings and their choices must be treated humanly, not judged by some transcendental moral values that doesn’t quite apply to the whole secular world.

Alwin Loi on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 11:51 am 

what a bunch of shameless ‘crusaders’. charge them in court for lying and inciting hatred and bigotry and forcing own’s religious belief to others and society at large!

flyingdagger on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 11:55 am 

to A view from a normal guy,
I am a normal guy too, but I think you have fallen for the rhetorics of Thio Su Mien in the press conference that our kids in school are under the threats of becoming gay and lesbian.. She needs to substantiate some of her claims. I think the ex-AWARE people will soon challenge her on some of her claims.

I don’t feel that our society is treating gay and lesbian as mainstream, on the contrary, our society suppress them. That is the reason for the gays and lesbian group to voice out their concerns, and what ex-AWARE did was not to discriminate against them.

Well, if one day you discover that your kid is lesbian, would you want the society to discrimiate against them? Well, if you as a parent discriminate against them yourself, I would have nothing to say..

Joe on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 11:56 am 

The emails sound too much to do with the “LORD” rather than just advising people. I Agree what flyingdagger says :
flyingdagger on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 10:42 am

Holy Jesus!! Evidence that they are imposing their religion belives onto others.

If this is allowed to continue, it will divide and destabilize the society.. And why is the government not doing anything??”

Btw, I did hear/read about their programmes…. and the “old guard” is not pro-gay, they just advocate that its not wrong to be gay, unlike what the so called “LORD” believes/preaches.

ketsugi on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 12:01 pm 

Uh.

What was the point of this post? What I see is a group of like-minded individuals getting together to make a stand against what they see as something wrong. Does it really matter that much that they’re from the same church and that their moral values are religiously-derived?

As the first commenter noted, it’s not only the religious who may have found the alleged activities of the old guard to be offensive. What if it had been a group of vintage car enthusiasts who happened to be concerned about AWARE’s activities and decided to take action? Would there be quite as much outrage now?

This is a non-story. There are certainly parts of the AWARE debacle that merit investigation, but this isn’t really one of them. It’s pretty obvious that this was a planned takeover from the start, anyway. Was anyone really trying to claim otherwise?

apu on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 12:07 pm 

@normal guy

Sadly you views are ‘normal’ and ‘mainstream’ in Singapore. That is the reason why we need advocacy groups to push for tolerance and acceptance and to end prejudice and inequality.

Unlike many films given the “gay cinema” label, the sexuality of the featured characters in Spider Lilies doesn’t define or limit them. Rather, they just happen to be gay, a fact which neither enhances or really harms their lives. This casual acceptance of alternative lifestyles seems to signal a progressive step towards a world without judgement.

Whether you like it or not, lesbians exist and have always existed. Lesbians are by definition a group of women, and in Singapore, they are a minority group that experience a great deal of prejudice and intolerance. This is why AWARE has been trying to help educate and enlighten people about the lesbian lifestyle.

Education is one of the most powerful tools for ending prejudice. Teaching in schools that homosexuality exists will help prevent prejudice. If you think it will some how ‘turn’ your children into a gay, then perhaps you need to learn more about sexual identity yourself.

Absurd on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 12:14 pm 

Strange that lying and being creative-with-the-truth is not prohibited in their version of The Good Book.

BTW, there is even serious debate whether or not homosexuality is specifically “outlawed” in the Bible. All this is if we even accept the authenticity and reliability of the Bible in the first place.

shoestring on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 12:17 pm 

Wayang wayang, this is not breaking already. More earth shattering news – death threats!

http://www.straitstimes.com/Breaking+News/Singapore/Story/STIStory_367873.html

Have you guys received any death threats because I can’t help noticing your tendency to stray away from neutrality.

kuching on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 12:39 pm 

What wrong with Singapore now??..Banks cheat people of their saving !!Monk spend money on Prad/ Gucci / 10K watch on his
personal assistants…AWARE suppose to represent Woman issues but now a platform for Lesbian and Gay rights…propaganda that to be gay or Lesbian is ok! Forces of darkness moving in now???crazy world where men make love with men and woman with woman???…your children are exposed to all these deadly sins or Singapore turning into a city of Sodom which God destroyed for these deadly sin?…Book of Revelation surely revealing the sinful truth of today world.

Alwin Loi on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 1:03 pm 

to kuching: we don’t god damn care what book you subscribe to. all we want is some respect for diversity in views and perspectives in multi society like singapore

Wenming on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 1:29 pm 

The emails prove that the new leaders of AWARE were blatantly lying when they claimed that they had no religious or anti-gay agenda. The entire coup was orchestrated in the name of “our Lord” and “God’s word” and the focus was always on the fact that AWARE failed to bash homosexuality to the satisfaction of the Christian fundamentalists.

To those who castigate AWARE for pushing a gay agenda, they are sadly mistaken. AWARE did not advocate homosexuality. They simply presented it a neutral manner. But to the anti-gay brigade, anything short of demonisation is equivalent to the promotion of homosexuality. They believe that you either don’t mention homosexuality at all, or you portray it a negative light. Thus, the Christian fundamentalists are furious because AWARE failed to preach their message of intolerance and bigotry.

AWARE has been doing good work in affirming the value of lesbian women and refusing to become a vehicle for anti-gay hatred. Let’s not allow civil society to be hijacked by intolerant people bent on imposing their own unjustified and religiously-derived view of morality onto the rest in society.

Nicholas on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 1:48 pm 

Why is homosexuality being taught in schools?

What is this thing about teaching school children to “experiment” with their sexuality?

That’s just not right.

The Education Ministry should seriously look into what some of the courses they approve are advocating. Doesn’t anybody vet these courses anymore?

Simon Ng on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 1:53 pm 

to kuching: it’s probably the other way round, we see rays of hopes being diminished by fundamentalist group in advocating a world more exclusive and intolerant. So let God who be the final Judge then, not the followers who’s interpretation of the scriptures are narrowed and dogmatic.

commonsense on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 2:14 pm 

“God is dead, we killed God”

-Friedrich Nietzsche

Religion is dangerous. It is based on irrationality and aims to stir passions, create fractions and promote wars. No scripture can adequately educate about sex. Most of us are ignorant about our sexuality. Read Alfred Kinsey if you would like a scientific and objective view on sexuality. Self righteous christians are the original sin.

emperor270353 on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 2:19 pm 

I am just wondering….if this Dr Thio ( pretty butch looking feminist mentor ) is so against AWARE’s homosexual stand etc…why doesn’t she n her of flock of sheeps start an alternate group. ? Why try to hijack an exisiting organisation and impose their belief ?

Sci-tist on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 2:27 pm 

Homosexuality has always existed. Homosexuality is part of nature. Every part of the world in all cultures had homosexuals throughout their history. Animals are known to show homosexualism too.

If the creator made the world the way it is, even before humans existed, then the people who claim that “homosexuality isn’t God’s design” has been misled.

The anti-gay members of AWARE are no different from the Nazi, carrying out genocide through misinformation and intolerance. Jews are human, and their abilities and contributions to the world we cannot deny. The same applies to gays.

wirzoned on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 2:38 pm 

@ketsugi

I think the main deal is that one religion’s beliefs do not apply to everyone. The thing about religion is its derived from a “higher power” that can’t be held accountable. (Ever tried tracking down God and putting him on a witness stand to say he ordered a jihad? lynch mob?).

When you have a group of people making a stand based on their religiously derived morals you run into the dilemma, does the non-religious group bow to beliefs that aren’t of their choosing or does the religious group have the right to press its religion’s beliefs on them?

AWARE’s takeover has the new guard going “this is against our religious beliefs. Our God (speaking to us from a 2000 Y.O. book) says this is wrong. Whether you believe in it or not, you’re gonna have to adhere to them because we took control”.

It matters because AWARE is now no longer secular and isn’t working for women’s best interest. It works for the almighty Christian God now and what he dictates is best for women.

tanu on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 3:22 pm 

So what does that tell you. AWARE is GAY. I only read about them telling “like minded people to join aware to bring about good .
Many parents like me don’t want S’pore to turn from SIN city to ‘GAY’city. Neither do I want to have to unravel my kids minds if they become confused over their sexuality if schools unwittingly allow to GAYs in to teach them.

jimbo on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 3:34 pm 

Ah…why cant life be simple like the virtual? Over there when two sides are deadlock and threaten to burn down the house. The brotherhood will send in their shock troops and roll in their tanks. They will imposed a cordon and declare martial law. In a while their diplomats will land and they will ask very politely, “you called, I presumed?”

And after that everything ends happily ever after. It always does.

Why cant they project their new diplomatic weapon Missy Dotty into the fray and restore the heavenly balance?

Why is it so complicated?

learnanewthingeverday on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 3:57 pm 

Today I learn that

1. lesbians are not women. or are not treated as women by some. or that an attempt to treat lesbians as women should be taken as a sin that needs cleansing by agents of God.

2. it is ok to subvert any organization that deemed itself “all inclusive” in the name of cleansing. but do not surface until the subversion is done.

3. that AWARE was not about women. it’s about gays. that’s why it’s being pwned. being gay will get you pwned.

4. that now gays and lesbians are deemed as the bad guys when some organization that was sympathetic to their plight stood out and gave them a voice. by having a voice means they are now mainstream and should be silenced immediately.

5. God forbid anything happens to the children of the exco or we shall see lesbians and gays hung and crucified for their sins.

commonsense on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 4:03 pm 

@tanu, I did not know that homosexuality can be taught.

I would suggest again that you follow a scientific basis for better understanding. Sexology is an objective scientific approach to understand human sexuality. Google the works by Alfred Kinsey.

JohnnyKid on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 4:04 pm 

Why don’t these christians clean up their own act first?

- $500k pastor

- dabbling in business using donations

- blatant dishonesty regarding the AWARE takeover

wayneworld on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 4:05 pm 

The old guards were accused of promoting gays and lesbian programs in school. Is there any proof to that? I cannot believe the school principles allowing that to happen.

The new AWARE wouldn't like this article - Page 2 - BMW.SG - The BMW Singapore Community on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 4:19 pm 

[...] The new AWARE wouldn’t like this article Haha.. the truth is out: BREAKING: Leaked emails from COOS members showed that AWARE take-over was pre-planned in advance!! :… Still refute that there’s no (religious) agenda… who’s kidding who man. __________________ [...]

singaporean on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 4:28 pm 

Would you rather your child becomes a Christian or a gay?

ron on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 4:28 pm 

All this fear. All this small minded fear. It all just goes to show that this country is truly not progressive in its beliefs. As is so often the case, say one thing and do another. ‘We are first world’ does not equate to being first world. It’s like a construction site saying ‘We believe in Safety’ when blatantly making workers stand around with deafening pile-drivers and no ear protectors. Saying isn’t doing. We’re open minded… as long as there’s no gays. And as long as the Indians stay in Little india. But we’re open minded…

And to all those who are scared of kids ‘turning gay’… SURELY teaching awareness and tolerance will stop people who ARE gay (you can try and ‘unravel their brains’ Tanu, and screw them up for life) from leading closeted lives of misery – forced to be conventional conservative and christian husbands or housewives. Or are you saying that a life of misery is preferable? Condemning someone to a life of misery… that might raise a few questions at the pearly gates, don’t you think?

Alwin Loi on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 4:53 pm 

what i can see from this whole incident is a bunch of oh-i-wanna-be-my-god’s-hero-homophobic barking up the wrong tree. aware is not the one they should have been hijacking.

putitthisway on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 4:53 pm 

In answering Singaporean,

I would prefer that my daughter to be heterosexual Taoist, Atheist or budhist is fine, if she so chooses islam and christianity will be fine as well. But again, the choice will be hers to make.

My job is to let her know what is the possible consequences in those choice.

Man’s first gift from God is Choice, and what’s the right of some to deny that from others?

tanu on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 5:16 pm 

Hello ron on.
I no understand line of thinking leh. Got such a thing as progressive beliefs meh? How is it progressive when gayism is as old as the hills?
You just made husbands and househouwives sound like dirty words. I am SO sorry that you had bad experiences with such.

Vince on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 5:22 pm 

Christians believe that all men are a creation of god.
Yet the funny thing is they discriminate gays and lesbians so much that they forgot they too are god creation.
If Dr Thio really walks her talks, what’s there so wrong for a parents to have kids being gay or lesbians?

Manoj on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 5:23 pm 

This would be like encouraging religious sect to prevail in taking over a group like aware. What would be the agenda after an organization like this is taken over by a religious group and claiming that the president has majority vote?

Tew N S on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 5:26 pm 

These Thio,Lau are not honest people.They are telling lies.They have pre-planned agenda and yet deny during the TV interview. Can you trust them ?

tanu on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 5:36 pm 

Hello commonsense I no read Alfred Kingsley leh. Is he homosexual too?
Scientific? Knowledge about the world,based on examining,testing and proving facts.
Proven FACT is that people who once chose homosexual lifestyle have found true happiness when they chose to change . I have heard their stories.
That you are not born a homosexual is a scientific fact . male XY chromosones. female XX chromosones

The other side of the coin on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 5:46 pm 

To a neutral party like me, all those so called anti-gay/lesbian folks refusing to accept any opinions differing from their own looked, to me, like extremists…. much the same as terrorists talking about jihad and stuff.

And by the way, pls do not be misled. AWARE has always been about pro-awareness, not pro gay nor pro lesbian.

A view from a normal guy on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 5:46 pm 

I am a simple and normal guy, with a daughter.

I am very disturb to learn that there are people, telling other people that GAY is ok.

If you are gay, so be it. DO NOT go and influence other people. ESPECIALLY the one that has not made up their minds.

Yes, while i agree that GAY should be left alone to live their live. But it IS NOT OK to go about telling everyone that it is ok.

If i catch any lesbian promoting lesbian-hood to my daughter, i dont mind going to jail AFTER making sure the person will no longer be able to promote it to another person.

Yew YL on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 6:06 pm 

I have not got time to read all the comments. But why has a take-over be planned? Certainly from all the emails above, it is obvious that a ‘take-over’ was planned from several months back.

Instead of mounting an ugly take over like this, one possible approach should be to approach AWARE and communicate their concern. It is definitely a more mature approach.

What has happened has bring everyone down. This ugly situation has not help anyone.

I am not happy with the approach taken by the new AWARE leadership although I agree that they have the right to be concerned. I can understand the need to educate our society cautously on gay and lesbianism.

commonsense on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 6:12 pm 

To singaporean: what is so morally wrong about being gay? Is there a moral reasoning that I should be enlightened of?

Hitler used christianity to justify the actions of the Nazi. Refer here. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adolf_Hitler’s_religious_beliefs

I am not intentionally condemning the christian faith but rather addressing how religion can be dangerous if it finds a place in secular modern societies. Addressing the issue, religion should be kept private sphere of life and MUST not be promoted in secular civil society. Religion is IRRATIONAL. We cannot prove god exists using scientific experiments or mathematical equations. To be rational is to reason logically using evidence and data. Religion is irrational as it is an act of faith and not reason. What happens if we allow religion to govern society? Ans: Fundamentalism, Taliban Afghanistan. Religion should be kept private. If homosexuality is wrong, I would like to have a rational and logical answer.

eg. stealing is wrong as it infringes the right of another person’s property.

NeutralNonBigot on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 6:18 pm 

These false christians should stop using the christian God’s name to further their own evil agendas. Extremists have no place in Singapore, they are getting more and more organised, militant and DANGEROUS!!!

commonsense on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 6:29 pm 

To tanu:

I like the XY and XX chromosomal argument. I do think that it is a fact genes determine sex but not sexuality. Is there a gay gene? No one has uncovered it and I don’t think it exists.

In genetics we have individuals with XXY and XYY chromosomal pairing known as Klinefelter’s syndrome. How to determine their sexuality? Look at which one got more X or more Y? Hermaphrodites would topple your whole basis of argument.

athome on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 6:29 pm 

Can gays reproduce? No. Is being gay natural? Maybe, but it doesnt help our species. Anyway, why the sudden interest in gays and lesbians, why promote or denounce it? It’s just a bloody waste of time.

Do other stuff, like helping fight discrimination against women in workplace. Gays/lesbians are definitely not mainstream.

I mean you think about it. Singapore is already facing a population decline, yet these idiots want to promote a way of life that will ensure we have no more further generations. What kind of stupidity is that?

emperor270353 on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 6:44 pm 

wah..dr thio…so scary…well educated christian woman who feels that she has the right to impose her belief upon others, who instead of coming upfront to stand for her belief would email her ” light-minded friends ” to fight on her behalf…si pa li hai…wat happen to inclusion…? people like u r the reason why i stop going to church..!

commonsense on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 6:46 pm 

Just for the record. I do not promote homosexuality. I believe that old AWARE does not promote homosexuality to people and I don’t think they have the audacity to do so. What I believe is how they advise children/young people on how to cope with their sexuality and not orientate them in any direction. If I am proven wrong, they should not be allowed to do so under the AWARE banner and certainly not in schools. Even then, this does not mean that we should bow down to religious agendas.

Homosexuality is wrong when a grown adult exploits a child as the child has not fully developed awareness(no pun intended) to understand sexuality. It is exploitation. However, to condemn grown homosexuals would be senseless. I believe this is how society should regard homosexuality. Comments?

commonsense on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 6:51 pm 

To athome: Reproduction is a natural process. What if one day a husband discovers his wife cannot have babies. Does this mean that in the name of reproduction he has the right to find another woman just to have babies? Why not then have polygamy? Male seeds can impregnate many woman at one once. Maximum reproduction minimal time. I’m sure many guys wouldn’t mind

JohnnyKid on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 7:00 pm 

If I have a son, and he is gay, I would feel very sad for him.

Why? Because he will be spending the rest of his life fighting against discrimination imposed by these religious bigots, when his energy should be better spent on useful matters.

Religious bigotry is the problem, not homosexuality.

A view from a normal guy on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 7:09 pm 

Agree with commonsense.

Wish to take back my harsh words i posted earlier.

I have NOTHING against homosexuals.

But i am AGAINST promotion of homosexuality. If you say it is ok to be gay to someone who is not(or havent made up their mind), you are promoting it.

tatdp on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 7:11 pm 

… might as well go hijack McDonalds and start selling salad only.

kenn on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 7:14 pm 

religion is not problem…. it’s the people.

Nicholas on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 7:27 pm 

Yes @a normal guy, i totally agree!

why is AWARE going around to schools to promote the gay lifestyle to school children?

How can they influence the school kids like that, especially at that young age?

I mean , if you are gay, so be it. But how can you go around and pressurise the primary and secondary school children to be “like-minded” with the gay community?

me on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 7:34 pm 

dear a view from a normal guy,

you astound me, and i’m sure many others in this comments page share the same sentiment.

what made you think that AWARE is PROMOTING a gay/lesbian lifestyle? you are obviously extremely misinformed and brainwashed. for your information, AWARE does not promote a homosexual lifestyle. For your further information, you cannot promote a homosexual lifestyle. If you are born homosexual, you are born homosexual. No one chooses to be gay.

AWARE does not discriminate gay women but will support any women, sexual preference aside, if they have been discriminated on ANY grounds. That was the old guard’s stand. There is nothing controversial about being gay. Catch up with the times, sir. What is controversial is if you are fired because of any form of prejudice. THAT is what AWARE stands for, and not try to SAVE you from this sinful life. You are born this way, you cant help it. Everyone else has to live with it and get on with their lives.

As a father, I hope your mindset broadens, otherwise, I regret to inform you, you will be at the end of many disappointments for you appear to not belong in today’s mindset or society. What would you do, if god forbid, your children grew up and told you he/she was gay? And he/she got sacked from her job because of this, despite being stellar in every aspect? Chuck her aside?

Grow up.

Alan Wong on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 7:46 pm 

If Jesus Christ had indeed preached that Christianity CAN NOT accept any gays or lesbians to become its followers, would it have been more practical & much easier if they just tell all the Christian gays & lesbians in this world to stop becoming Christians in the first place.

This will save our world from a lot of headache & heartache and then there is no need to start bitching about the motives of AWARE as the Church would be GAY-FREE from any gay activism.

But why are they not doing

Alan Wong on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 7:57 pm 

If Jesus Christ had indeed preached that Christianity CAN NOT accept any gays or lesbians to become its followers, would it have been more practical & much easier if they just tell all the Christian gays & lesbians in this world to stop becoming Christians in the first place.

This will save our world from a lot of headache & heartache and then there is no need to start bitching about the motives of AWARE as the Church would be GAY-FREE from any gay activism.

But why are they afraid of turning gay/lesbian christians away if gays/lesbians are such frightening creatures. Is it because they still need their monetary contributions ? Then is it not ironic that they have no qualms collecting such tithes from gay/lesbian members but on the other hand are so homophobic towards them.

And they might as well appeal to the Govt to put all gays/lesbians to the gallows so that squeaky clean Singapore is free from all gay activities.

Are they not hypocrites ? To try to govern other people’s lives just because their ancient holy book says it is a sin for same sex humans to make love to each other. If you want to limit your beliefs to your own followers, kill them, put them to jail, etc;, that is fine. But please don’t try to have the high moral ground to say it is not normal for other believers not to abide by your religion by just saying that it is not pro-family.

putitthisway on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 8:16 pm 

To those who claims that Aware under the old guards were promoting gay lifestyle to schools, please prove it

Anonymous on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 8:33 pm 

Nicholas – who told you Aware was going around schools to promote the gay lifestyle. You saw it yourself? And even if they did, do you seriously think that one can be turned gay just because someone else told him to? Don’t be silly. You are living in the 21st century.

Anonymous on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 11:03 pm 

I think that mainstream 21st century society is quite accepting of homosexuality and gay culture.

The world says it’s quite “uncool” to have strong views against homosexuality. If you stand against it, you may get labelled bigotted, a prude, old-fashioned, judgmental, a homophobe, conservative or prejudiced etc.

So, strangely enough, I would say the Christian or moral view is actually the minority view that needs protecting in this day and age. See how it is the Christians who are being picked on in this case.

So hats off to the ladies who stood up to death threats and unpopularity because they did what they believed was right.
They stood with what they believed in, what they felt would be better for society in the long run. Though for a little while they may have to bear much persecution, ridicule and who knows what other acts of malice. Such is the way for anyone who stands with truth. Though Jesus did and taught good, the world hated him and crucified him.

Still I hope all of this will be resolved with grace. In reconciling homosexuals with morality perhaps the following saying from Mahatma Gandh may be helpfuli: “Hate the sin, love the sinner.”

Anj on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 11:39 pm 

Jesus never lied to hijack any group.
Get your scriptures right.

Andrew Chan on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 11:56 pm 

IMHO, what has gotten the average Singaporean so incensed about the new Exco is not so much that they’re Christians, not even perhaps that they’re trying to impose their moral standards on others, but the UTTERLY DECEITFUL manner in which they approached this situation.

The manner in which they hid the original motivating factors and pretended that the events of the AGM wasn’t premeditated.

An outright and boldfaced LIE.

Which tells us that these women have no moral compass, are not pillars of society by any stretch of the imagination, and totally unsuited to running AWARE.

HL on Sat, 25th Apr 2009 12:47 am 

@ Alwin Loi on Fri, 24th Apr 2009 1:03 pm

” to kuching: we don’t god damn care what book you subscribe to. all we want is some respect for diversity in views and perspectives in multi society like singapore ”

NICE ONE LA, BRO.. Wahahahha

@ commonsense

Nice logical arguments.. Appreciated.. Hehe.. Just to add on, Su Mein commented “do we want to have an entire nation of lesbians?” I think this statement in itself shows a gross lack of societal acceptance and understanding.. For those who think this whole issue of homosexuals is a waste of time, its only one step away from discriminating against other minorities ie. Indians, Jews, etc.. Its the principle that matters!

shoestring on Sat, 25th Apr 2009 12:48 am 

From personal experience, it is possible for volunteers from a big church to meet church mates they never new, when they volunteer for a cause.

On one of my own volunteer missions, my church mates and I made up 30% of the group and we did not know each other before that.

Alwin Loi on Sat, 25th Apr 2009 12:50 am 

to “anonymous 11:03pm”: you are right to say “hate the sin, love the sinner”. but let it be known that josie and pussycats themselves are a bunch of sinners because they have lied in order to hijack a group. in the process of helping other sinners, they themselves have become sinners. get that fact straight to your face

Wallus on Sat, 25th Apr 2009 1:06 am 

We need a chill pill.

We all know where this will all fall, one side trumpeting gay culture and it’s tenets, the other citing personal convictions leading to their activism.

(Maybe a third group truly just wanting the good old days.)

For the old guard, they should really be thankful that this whole episode has lit a fire under everyone’s butts about how fragile the status quo can be. They may already be finding new friends because of this.

For the newbies, more power to you if you can manage your PR properly.

But let’s be honest, if you are pro-gay, you are fundamentally pro-gay right? It’s your right to hold to that position.

So don’t fault the Christians for not sharing that position, just vote them out if you can.

All this out-cry is a little too much drama for me…, someone should just play the traffic guy and go “There’s nothing new here folks, just move along… and vote.”

Rina Ng on Sat, 25th Apr 2009 3:03 am 

to Mr Andrew Chan – my exact sentiment.

if there’s something the new exco women is not happy about the ongoing team, they should sit down with them and voice their concerns / views. you do not plan in secret to take over the whole group & yet claimed that it is not preplan. the lies they tell & the actions they take (sacking/changing locks) just go to show the kind of people they are. I certainly do not want to be represented by a group of women who are disrespectful & cunning.

Buddhist on Sat, 25th Apr 2009 3:04 am 

Why isn’t anybody offering the view of secularity?

I am a Buddhist. We preach tolerance for all kinds of people. The last time I checked, Singapore is a secular state, NOT a Christian country.

I feel my rights threatened that someone is trying to impose their religious stance over the society I, as a non-Christian, call my own.

This day this country adopts a slant towards any religion is the day I will no longer call myself a Singaporean.

Morris on Sat, 25th Apr 2009 3:06 am 

Sigh, i wonder how to explain to those people who keep insisting that our sexual orientation can be chosen, promoted and taught!

For that poor father up there who fears his daughter will be ‘influenced” by being around lesbians or watching two lesbians kissing, I can only wish his fantasy were true.

Then I can also fantasize about being “influenced” to grow taller by being around tall people! Perhaps if we all “promote” tallness as one united people, Singapore will soon be extinct of shorties like me.

And for that poor chap who thinks homosexuals can’t reproduce and will aggravate our baby deficit, let’s assure him that anyone who has the necessary apparatus in working order can produce babies with the proper arrangements – sexual orientation has never been a function of reproductive potential except in some people’s rigid minds.

And mind you, there are actually many heterosexual couples who are even more guilty of contributing to our baby deficit – by using contraceptives so they can enjoy the fun of hetero-sex without the side-effects of having babies.

And of course, how can we forget the many monks and nuns who are living their unpatriotic celibate lifestyle, totally oblivious to the baby deficit crisis we have in Singapore?

So we must keep our children away not just from those terrible gays but also from above-stated groups of people, in case our precious children get “influenced” and God forbid, we end up with not just a whole generation of lesbians, but also a whole generation of monks/nuns/contraceptive users!

Nicholas on Sat, 25th Apr 2009 9:47 am 

hey, it’s good to know that i’m not the only one who is VERY concerned about AWARE’s school programmes that promote homosexuality!

Shocked at old guard’s programmes – http://www.straitstimes.com/ST%2BForum/Online%2BStory/STIStory_368066.html

Schools should not invite group to give sex talks – http://www.straitstimes.com/ST%2BForum/Online%2BStory/STIStory_368064.html

‘How was this allowed? Did the ministry vet it?’ – http://www.straitstimes.com/ST%2BForum/Story/STIStory_368151.html

Focus on issues that affect women – http://www.straitstimes.com/ST%2BForum/Story/STIStory_368161.html

Apparently, something like 500 school children have been through these programmes! Gosh!

talkmore on Sat, 25th Apr 2009 10:37 am 

Can someone with legal experience write in to Registrar of Societies with emails attached that this is a legitimate takeover from a religious group. So that the new committee members can be declared as void due to their religious slant.

Saddened on Sat, 25th Apr 2009 10:52 am 

I am astounded by how ill-informed some people are about the AWARE agenda. Especially the ones who are supportive of the “new exco”, unfortunately. I feel deeply saddened by the fact that by focusing solely on the so-called “pro-homosexual” stance of the old guard, they appear to be missing out on the greater objectives of AWARE – which is to promote a healthy awareness (no pun intended) for women’s rights, and to further the well-being of all women in Singapore, regardless of their race, religion, class, sexual orientation, or even world view.

Under the old guard, as long as you needed help, you could approach AWARE. Whether you were Christian or Muslim, whether you belived it was a sin to be homosexual or whether you were struggling with your own sexuality.

Under this new exco, which apart from denouncing homosexuality has not come up with any new agenda, who knows what will happen if a woman who needs assistance approaches such members. If she is a non-Christian, like a Buddhist, or a Muslim or a Hindu, will she be turned away? Will help be denied to her unless she promises to convert? What if she is struggling with her identity or sexual orientation? Will she be turned away as well, or will she be coerced into “rehabilitation”?

The new exco appears to be doing nothing except alienating a majority of women in Singapore – those who do not subscribe to the religious following, lifestyle or world view of the members themselves. And for this I think it is very sad.

Worse still, is the style of takeover. It presumes that the only way to get the message across is to do it in an underhanded matter, without discussion, without respect for years of experience, service and trust.

As a woman, I would never place my trust in an organisation run by such members.

Buddhist on Sat, 25th Apr 2009 1:04 pm 

Nicholas, when you feed wholesale on the *** Mrs Thio is mongering, did it ever once occur to you to go to some of these kids/parents and ask what they are being taught?

You might want to learn more before embracing their lies so wholeheartedly.

AWARE Shows That Singapore Now Has A New Mouth, And It Has Teeth « Creative Spark on Sat, 25th Apr 2009 2:05 pm 

[...] The newspapers are doing a nice job of covering it, but my online feeds have also been chopping, dicing, slicing and julienning the story, digging out information about the women involved from all kinds of sources. We now know pretty much everything there is to know about the people involved. Sometimes it’s very vague, other times it’s almost like listening to gossip from neighbours. This is information that the newspapers might have finally uncovered, or might not have. Want to see their private emails for example? Here you go. [...]

Cynical on Sat, 25th Apr 2009 5:01 pm 

Not that i want to be a stick in the mud, but wouldn’t you think that this “takeover” being “pre-planned” and in advance, no less, stretching the truth a bit?

Reading the emails now, it seems more to me like a woman reaching out to her church for support. I don’t see anything more then “I’m going to be doing xyz, would you please come and support me?”

Otherwise, regarding the homosexuality issue, it seems to me that its in Singapore’s interests to restrict it. We already have a declining birth rate and an increasingly greying population. Barring some potentially unethical medical intervention, i really don’t see homosexual couples turning out kids.

Besides, its in all our power to decide what we want to do, irregardless of our nature.

Anonymous 11:03pm on Sat, 25th Apr 2009 8:05 pm 

Now that I’ve had a look at the papers, I find I do not exactly condone what those women did, as it seems a little sneaky.

But that said, if you had back then in the 1930s a way of ousting Hitler from government that was lawful but a little unorthodox would you take it?

I suspect that was like the motivation that these new Aware women had. Perhaps they thought that by all means they must put an end to what they saw as evil, before worse things happened.

In an ideal situation all this would have been handled more graciously and more openly.

For discussions sake, now that the Aware brand is so sullied by both camps and this saga, do you think it should just be disbanded? Why do we even need Aware? I think women are quite well looked after these days in Singapore. We love and respect them, and they’re able to find work and do it well. Or perhaps other women’s organisations could step up to the plate and fill any void this leaves. What do ppl think?

tanu on Sat, 25th Apr 2009 8:34 pm 

Hello commonsense .Thanks for pointing out klinefelter’s syndrome. Those chromosones you mentioned I understand are mutations and would have abnormal physical traits.Not related to homosexual behaviour.Searched http://www.biology.about.com/od/basicgenetics/a/aa110504ahtm and found that my biology teacher was correct. Only males have the Y chromosone.
After reading your tip about Alfred I can only conclude that his conclusion is biased and not reliable given his weird sexual tendencies and his use of pedophiles and children in his collection of data.
Cherio

commonsense on Sat, 25th Apr 2009 9:54 pm 

@tanu

beware of self defeating arguments. What I pointed out was your apparent confusion between SEX and SEXUALITY. You mentioned sex determines sexual orientation and you provided the example of XY and XX chromosomes in that sexuality is determined by well defined genetics(this is what i imply from your comment)

Klinefelter’s syndrome was to counter argue that sex may not be always well defined. As for kinsey’s surveys, it was regarding sexuality, that was why even your abnormal pedophiles and children are interviewed. It was meant to study sexual behavior of all kinds. If only heterosexuals were studied, then it would seem that homosexuals are a rarity. And I have mentioned that genetics have not uncover any ‘gay gene’.

Vince on Sun, 26th Apr 2009 12:50 am 

To Commonsense(and also to Tanu)
I couldn’t agree more with Commonsense, Tanu’s argument about the XY and XX chromosomal is pointless, as it merely determine the sex but not sexuality.
Until the day a scientific team could successfully decode our DNA pattern, please, stop telling other people that gays r people who have chosen the lifestyle rather then they r born to be.

Chuihua on Sun, 26th Apr 2009 1:23 am 

If this new group of women do not agree with AWARE’s agenda, then they should just set up their own organisation and propagate it under their church, instead of usurping a secular group by stealth.

AWARE promotes toleration of people regardless of their race, religion, sexual orientation or background. The new AWARE under this group is very clear that it will enforce a ‘Christian’ morality.

The fact is that AWARE is important precisely because it is secular. Many of the social organisations here are religious in nature and have a religious agenda when extending social help.

I’m glad the old AWARE is fighting back Check http://www.we-are-aware.sg/

Anonymous on Sun, 26th Apr 2009 2:21 am 

To Anonymous 11:03pm on Sat, 25th Apr 2009 8:05 pm

You are trying to equate old AWARE guards with Hitler, evil. And that the new exco saw they had to oust evil from it’s throne, no matter what (end justify the means).

Tell me why you think the old guards are evil?

Don’t be like josie and her gang. Plain speak and clear intentions is the way to go forward in criticisms of others you do not agree with. Insinuations, wrapping true intentions under words like “losing focus”, “noble cause”, tsk tsk.

Why do you think they don’t just come out and say what they really want in the first place, instead of wrapping it up as a big gift they have to give to society?

Why all this silence in all the weeks after they were elected when it only took the old guards the next day to response to the new exco’s criticisms?

Simple. Because the old guards did not have to waste time fabricating “visions for the future” and strategise with their “feminist mentor”.

Simple. Because they have nothing to hide.

Well I will be plain in my speak: What Josie and her gang want is to guide AWARE to their own version of noble causes (read: their church’s version of christian values).

Bully is as bully does. You don’t agree with me fine, but it doesn’t mean you can push me off my seat.

AWARE saga « Januarywinds on Sun, 26th Apr 2009 2:59 am 

[...] The newspapers are doing a nice job of covering it. We now know pretty much everything there is to know about the people involved. Sometimes it’s very vague, other times it’s almost like listening to gossip from neighbours. There are also information that the newspapers might have finally uncovered, or might not have. Want to see their private emails for example? Here you go. [...]

Jack on Sun, 26th Apr 2009 1:53 pm 

1stly, you cannot “turn” gay just by watching some film or even being educated by it. If that is so, there wouldnt be any gays around because they had all watch/read/seen/viewed/heard enough mainstream content to convert themself straight

2ndly, I think its fine for the old AWARE to educate them on sexuality and even say that homosexuality is fine. Its another issue altogether to accuse them of encouraging experimentation and encouraging kids to be homosexuals. As above, encouraging experimentation is possible, but this encouraging sexuality is not possible

Jack on Sun, 26th Apr 2009 1:55 pm 

And arent lesbians woman as well. Because of their sexuality, does that make them less of a woman, or less of a person? Often we say love the sinner but hate the sin, is this being so now? Or are we condemning the sinner of a lifetime of discrimination.

AWARE should help lesbians because simply, they are woman. That is in conjunction with their ideals. However, encouraging it or the experimentation of it is a strict no-no

Lop on Mon, 27th Apr 2009 12:03 am 

I think these days if you want to ‘anti’ anything, just tag ‘children’ on it, immediately no matter absurd your reasons are they become valid grounds.

Also, try telling people you received death threats, immediately the aggressor becomes the victim.

Matt on Mon, 27th Apr 2009 12:23 am 

What we got here is called “Dominonism”. You can read more about it here :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dominionism

and how it relates to the AWARE saga? read this article here :

http://dogemperor.newsvine.com/_news/2009/04/24/2729992-a-steeplejacking-of-a-womens-ngo-in-singapore-a-rare-glimpse-at-how-joels-army-groups-work-in-practice

Matt on Mon, 27th Apr 2009 12:26 am 

Also, Senator Ken Salazar of Colorado, quote, “I think what has happened is Focus on the Family has been hijacking Christianity and become an appendage of the Republican Party,” Salazar said. “I think it’s using Christianity and religion in a very unprincipled way.”

Read about it here :

http://www.democrats.com/node/4358

Rob on Mon, 27th Apr 2009 12:28 am 

In Germany, they came first for the Communists, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Communist;

And then they came for the trade unionists, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a trade unionist;

And then they came for the Jews, and I didn’t speak up because I wasn’t a Jew;

By the time they came for me, there was no one left to speak up.

– Poem based on speeches by Pastor Martin Niemöller (1892-1984)

If we allow the Christians to polarize society, sure, Homosexuals might be the first to be marginalized. But what next? You think that Christians with their taste of political power will stop there? NO. They would go for the muslims, and the Buddhists. They will go for the unbelievers. And the people who believe in evolution instead of creation. They will go for me, and they would go for you. Stop them right now, and do not let these people hijack your mind and tell you what’s right or wrong! Let people believe what they believe in. If your child is straight, no amount of experimentation will change his sexual orientation, just like no one can convince you to become straight or gay by talking to you. But we should NEVER, EVER allow anyone in Singapore to ever feel marginalized or that he or she does not feel accepted. Because being inclusive is what makes us strong, and the Church should feel ashamed for trying to change that.

Kevin on Mon, 27th Apr 2009 12:49 am 

Pls do not assume COOS to represent the total of Christianity.

doctoree on Mon, 27th Apr 2009 8:52 am 

@Kevin

I agree with you.
Therefore, we need to stop these people from giving Christians a bad name!

@Tanu

You totally forgot about the androgen-resistant phenotypes. Kindly justify that according to your theory.

xylish on Mon, 27th Apr 2009 10:54 am 

There is no evidence to show that Aware is treating gay/lesbian as mainstream. I think they are only maintaining neutral stance.

The AWARE saga: Time for government to respond to its ramifications to draw a clear demarcation between secularism and religion : The Singapore Enquirer: An independent online news daily on Mon, 27th Apr 2009 11:11 am 

[...] She had allegedly written an email to her friends a few months earlier urging them “to join it and change its focus to other problems of women and families.” (read article here) [...]

separationofchurchandstate on Mon, 27th Apr 2009 11:27 am 

I believe Gay and Lesbian topics have no place in talks to school children. It must never be in any programs of AWARE.

However, I also believe what these religious groups are doing is also very wrong. You cannot mass-join an organization and “take over” it to push any agenda in any direction. Instead, these groups should raise awareness by bringing this up to proper media channels and let the public, government and the schools themselves to take action.

The church leaders that actually promote the actions mentioned in the email is starting on a very dangerous route here. It sounds like war to them, and where will this war go next and when will it ever end? racism fascism,a 2nd holocaust or another inquisition accusing every other person of heresy?

Uncle Koh on Mon, 27th Apr 2009 12:17 pm 

As a christian, I am ashamed of this group of new people. If the GREAT I AM have not taught us, respecting and having humanity is the great thing we can do for our fellow humans. In local or rather modern contacts, what you don’t practice doesn’t mean you have to disrespect others. What you can’t accept, doesn’t give you the right to impose on others. You win people over by respecting them, and educating them, not discriminating them.
This just show that they have no respect for others, yet they are trying to claim being victims of this issue.

DISGRACEFUL MEMBERS OF COOS! It people like you that make non-Christians stay away from Christians! SHAME ON YOU!

Ordinary Citizen on Mon, 27th Apr 2009 12:59 pm 

Thanks Matt, it is an interesting and enlightening read on the new term “Dominonism”.

It is quite scary to know that the AWARE takeover could be a small part of a bigger plan taking place in many parts of the world. It is even more alarming that such ideological movements may have infiltrated into our country for many years and nothing has yet been done to stop or impede them from spreading their devious teaching and confrontational behaviour. This AWARE incident is really a good wake up call for the apathetic Singaporeans who have always taken our relatively stable and peaceful life for granted.

Desoh87 on Mon, 27th Apr 2009 7:06 pm 

Humans are bisexual by nature. ‘Nuff said.

看破紅塵 on Mon, 27th Apr 2009 8:05 pm 

吹皺一池春水，干我何事？
名和利呀什麽東西？
生不帶來死不帶去！

SK Tan on Mon, 27th Apr 2009 8:41 pm 

The minister has spoken. We should build a “rainbow coalition”.
Building the rainbow coalition is for the interest of our nation.
I hope members of the new exco of AWARE understand, resign and leave. This is a sensible thing to do.

The AWARE saga shows the danger of religious brainwashing making highly educated people to lose their sensibility. It is good to be moderately religious but dangerous to be extremely religious. Extremists tend to lose their heads in heaven forgetting that their legs are still on the ground.

We need laws when we discard the values. According to the law members of the new exco have won but according the ethics and values they have lost. It is a sad thing that their lives are guided by laws and not by values. As Christians, it is a disgrace that their lives are not guided by values. God guides them through the values. Throw away the values and they will be guided by Satan in the name of God.

supporter of honest people on Tue, 28th Apr 2009 12:43 am 

Taken from Kent Ridge Common -
….spokesperson of the church categorically state that “There is no church connection. The church is not at all involved in secular affairs”……an explicit email calling on church members to join an organization, attend the general meeting, and vote against constitutional changes…..is already an explicit move by the church to influence the outcome of events within a secular organization.

In all conscience, how can s’poreans trust dishonest ppl to lead AWARE??

AWARE Saga: A glimpse of the future of Singapore politics? « Crazy about Life on Tue, 28th Apr 2009 6:42 am 

[...] the leaked e-mails were circulated. To contain the fallout, the new EXCO quickly called for a press conference, during [...]

share on Tue, 28th Apr 2009 9:12 pm 

Stop wasting energy… fight and fight endlessly

To all those who care, stop donating money, some donate hardearned money, many donate extra cash.

Donate something else, something which you and I have in equal. only 24hrs in your day and my day and his day. donate time.

Bring a mentally disabled out to the zoo, give tuition to a less privileged kid, play a game of chess with the elder next door, enjoy music with a visually disabled, enjoy sports with a hearing impaired, go out with your family, loved ones and have a cheerful family day. Tell your kid, never stop helping people, cherish time.

Any gay lesbian straight out there will appreciate someone spending meaningful moments with them.

shocked on Tue, 28th Apr 2009 9:43 pm 

Are you kidding me? There are people who, originally heterosexual, chose to be guy out of peer pressure (esp in an industry where gays are seen to have more ‘çred’ e.g. theatre/fashion) or became so in order to experiment or because of personal emotional upheaval. Don’t blame it all on the genes, a lot of it is choice.

I agree with ‘a view from a normal guy’. I too am a parent. And I am also aware that during pre-teen and teenage years, same-sex ‘crushes’ borne out of admiration are a completely normal part of a heterosexual teen’s life, and the last thing I want is for their sexuality educators or teachers to be giving these kids the idea that this means that they are homosexual!

shocked on Tue, 28th Apr 2009 9:46 pm 

‘Me’ said earlier “No one chooses to be gay”

Are you kidding me? There are people who, originally heterosexual, chose to be guy out of peer pressure (esp in an industry where gays are seen to have more ‘çred’ e.g. theatre/fashion) or became so in order to experiment or because of personal emotional upheaval. Don’t blame it all on the genes, a lot of it is choice.
I agree with ‘a view from a normal guy’. I too am a parent. And I am also aware that during pre-teen and teenage years, same-sex ‘crushes’ borne out of admiration are a completely normal part of a heterosexual teen’s life, and the last thing I want is for their sexuality educators or teachers to be giving these kids the idea that this means that they are homosexual!

Lop on Tue, 28th Apr 2009 11:21 pm 

@shocked

Then I wonder why the gays don’t choose to be straight out of peer pressure…the last I heard there are many more straights than gays.

You can tell when someone is in fear…they become irrational.

Aguy with another view on Tue, 28th Apr 2009 11:26 pm 

MOE has rebutted – Dr Thio will now need to substantiate her claims that the sex talks encouraged children to experiment in homosexual acts.

Well, to all those who were harping on this issue, now you have it.

May i also remind all that the legal profession requires one to be articulate enough to defend your client – whether he’s actually guilty or not is moot.

Would you go to a lawyer who does not speak up for you? Of course not! You will pick the most eloquent lawyer. “I’ll get the best lawyer for you”.. sounds familiar?

Another normal guy on Tue, 28th Apr 2009 11:43 pm 

@ shocked

I believe you could have mixed up same-sex ‘crushes’ in your teenage years with idolising someone of the same sex. If you really had experienced same-sex ‘crushes’ like you said, you should have become a gay already.

For straight people like me, I only have ‘crushes’ on the opposite sex. When i admired people of the same sex in my teenage years, i simply want to be in their position to receive the good things they possessed e.g. wealth, status, glamour, popularity. I will puke if they undress in front of me.

Christian on Wed, 29th Apr 2009 12:07 pm 

The COOS should group with other big churches who have many talented people to take over the government as the PAP is not acting to the glory of God.

The allow casinos, enlarging of vice activities in Geylang, persecuting Christians like Dr Chee Soon Juan, many opposition members.

It is time for Singapore Christians to stand up against the PAP and install a trully God-fearing Christian government and then using Singapore to outreach to all the ASEAN countries for the Lord as Singapore is the ONLY Christian nation in the region.

It’s the end time now so no time to waste. Fear no men except God.

BC on Wed, 29th Apr 2009 1:12 pm 

Singaporeans need to learn to be more open minded. It’s time to toss those archaic mindsets out the proverbial window.

JL on Wed, 29th Apr 2009 1:52 pm 

看破紅塵，

if i am not wrong, the latter 2 sentence out of your 3 sentence are actually lyrics from a passe chinese song.

errhh…this a forum to discuss about AWARE, if you are into chinese singing, can join 百萬大歌星.

Jean on Thu, 30th Apr 2009 11:51 am 

To Christian,

I feel deeply ashamed of you as a fellow Singaporean.

It seems like years of reciting the Singapore pledge has been wasted on you. Singapore is a democratic country which prides itself tolerant of different races and religions.

Let me refresh your memory of the SIngapore Pledge.

“We, the citizens of Singapore,
Pledge ourselves as one united nation.
Regardless of race, language or religion,
To build a democratic society,
So as to achieve happiness, prosperity
And progress for our nation”

I seriously think you ought to migrate elsewhere, maybe Israel, or America, Christian nations where you truly belong?

AlexLee on Fri, 1st May 2009 10:16 pm 

This is funny. You guys either do not know what’s really going in this generation or just cant accept that the world is changing.

How nice will it be if homosexuality can be taught?
I wonder if ur father/mother “taught” you to make your heart beat faster when you see a cute girl/guy, for straight ppl.

How simple will it be if all the existing homosexuals became homosexuals becuz they had disturned childhood/unpleasant past with the opposite gender?
It will be so much easier to explain.

And what made you think that you can decide for your children who their hearts beat for?

It’s so funny.

They are so afraid that by teaching the kids there’s nothing wrong abt homosexuals, all the kids might turn gay.
But why is that we have been “taught” heterosexuals are right for centuries and yet not all of us are straight?

Have you pause as you walk along the street and realise how many same-gender couples are strolling along the street these days?

Have you notice that many are coming out more openly and do you even realise that with younger generation, being gay is no long such a fuss?

Do you think that these kids are more disturbed than you were at their age?

Some of them are happy, some are sad, some have wholesome family, some dont, some are smart, some arent. But it’s all part and puzzles of life.

Some are angry about this matter, some dont see why people are making such a fuss.

Have you heard of this kid, who was raised in a very loving family with her mom and dad being first love of each other and they are still going strong? And this kid werent abused by any men of any sort and perfectly sound. Her mom loves her alot of she helps her mom around with houseworks/massaging her/done everything she could to please her parents, and also went to her dad’s factory to help monitor the workers there, had a hearty meal of beef noodles with her dad, and she has 3 lovely sisters. She does well in school, hating herself whenever she let down her teachers, respect elders, non smoker, non drinker, non clubber, and definitely not interested in things like one night stands. She believes in long lasting relationships and able to see love for love. But guess what, she’s gay. And she has been so since she was 6.

And maybe you dont know (for those who are ignorant), but there are many gay kids like this girl who came from a perfectly healthy family with a perfectly healthy past, so who are you to judge?

I dont understand why some people think gays are only interested in having sexual activity with someone of same gender.

And have i mention that the population of the gay community is increasing ALL OVER THE WORLD whether you like it not, and they are also the one contributing to the economy/society right under your nose.

Of coz, after saying so much, some of you guys might still not understand what the crap i’m talking about, and think that i’m here to promote my beliefs. I’m not. Just face the facts people, perfectly healthy individuals are gay and their population is increasing.

On top of the other usual social factors, i wonder if the government has ever wondered why the brith rate still seems to keep dropping no matter how they tried to solve it. If they havent, i suggest them to take a walk downtown and see for themselves of the partial reason why the birth rate MIGHT be dropping.

-CHEERS-

Anonymous on Sat, 2nd May 2009 5:44 pm 

this is disgusting. i will be withdrawing my membership from coos very soon.

it is utterly wrong to be imposing a preferred lifestyle over others – over society. this is social vandalism. i am dead sure that god never intended self-righteous christians to do what they feel like doing anytime.

FFS on Sun, 3rd May 2009 11:00 pm 

I am not a christian nor a gay. I believe in having freedom in individual religious belief. I also believe in having freedom in choosing own life partners.

Religious differences has been in existence since the rise of civilization. The local gov stand is having a proper mix of different faiths living peacefully in this small society.

Gays behaviour have also been in existence in animal kingdoms as well. Thus the gov also acknowledge the existence of gays in this modern human society. But that does not mean the gov or majority of Singaporeans are GAYs. Mr AlexLee should also understand the fact the majority of humans are not GAYs, whether in this era or in the future. Gay lifestyle should not be encouraged, though we can only acknowledge their existence. By promoting gay lifestyle, we are indirectly stopping pro-creation,our very own reason to exist in this world. Gay lifestyle do not allow pro-creation, as such, they are a catalyst to self-destruction. My stand is to leave these people alone and let them or their ideas die on their own. Do not even try to encourage gayism because this is against nature.

regards

trailnuts on Mon, 4th May 2009 9:09 pm 

Turns out Shawn Tay himself claims to be an “ex-gay”.. umm…. take a look here..

http://www.coos.org.sg/testimony/index.php?coospg=2007/2007_finding_learning_the_truth.html

interesting…

kindlyexplain on Sat, 16th May 2009 8:23 am 

Neither a christian nor a gay FFS on Sun, 3rd May 2009 11:00 pm.

“Gay lifestyle do not allow pro-creation, as such, they are a catalyst to self-destruction. My stand is to leave these people alone and let them or their ideas die on their own. Do not even try to encourage gayism because this is against nature.”

Gay lifestyle does not merely not allow pro-creation – and bring self-destruction to those practicing such a lifestyle. Gay lifestyle does certain threaten, endanger and harm those who are not gays in at the least two other very real ways:

a) Their ever creating of new blood/mucous/semen/faeces mutant virus cocktails to contaminate society and humanity through sex, blood contamination, blood transfusion & etc.

b) Their creating needless problems to drain world’s resources from other more deserving causes, to fund expensive never ending searches of cures for their never ending creation of new virus cocktails.

“Safe” gay sex (and “safe” irresponsible whatever sex acts) through the use of “protective” condoms?

An absolute lie promoted by those who are bent on destroying individuals. society and humanity for their perverted pleasure.

kindlyexplain on Fri, 22nd May 2009 6:31 am 

“Home > Breaking News > Singapore > Story May 21, 2009 Changes to sex education programme MOE tightens vetting By Theresa Tan

SCHOOLS will no longer have the autonomy to hire external groups to teach sexuality education to their students.”

Hip, hip, hurray !!!